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alurra

Raid Rotation Now Null And Void?

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Found this thread: https://forum.enb-emulator.com/index.php?/topic/10477-wasted-raid-triggers-and-the-public/

 

Explains all.

 

Strikes me that primary purpose of the Raid Rotation (Treaty?) Schedule is to maintain civility and mutual respect among the players in this relatively small Community.

 

All other implicit and explicit purposes of the Schedule (e.g. equitable loot distribution, intra-Guild planning and organisation) are secondary to this primary purpose.

 

Laws and treaties get broken occasionally. If the temptation to do what a law or treaty prohibits wasn't there, there would be no need for the law or treaty.

 

When parties to the treaty succumb to temptation, the only appropriate response is for the parties who breached to apologise, Altering, suspending or eliminating an agreement that took effort, compromise and diplomacy to establish, in an attempt to retrospectively excuse a breach of the agreement, is disingenuous and counter-productive.

 

Especially where the primary purpose of the agreement is so obviously beneficial to all parties involved.

 

I'll shut up now.

I totally agree :)

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Thanks for the link, Holyman. It's a good reminder.

Excellent post. 200% agree.

 

 

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Ah.

 

Can see then how the time at which a Guild chose to exercise its "Right to Raid" would have consequences for the next Guild up.

 

But can also see that with relatively short (in terms of a 7-day cycle) respawn times, the temptation to take down a Raid that is sitting there ripe-for-the-plucking must be overwhelming for some...

 

The Rotation Schedule is weekly, but the respawn times are generally between 1 and 2 (to 2 and a half) days. Is the agreement such that a Guild that holds the Rotation for the week can take down the Raid as many times as it is able, within that week? Provided that the last attempt allows for the Raid to respawn in time for the hand-off to the next Guild?

 

If that is the case, then it really is no business of anyone other than the leaders of the Guild that holds the Rotation for the week, when (and even if) they choose to take the Raid.

 

Seems straightforward enough.

 

 

Found this thread: https://forum.enb-emulator.com/index.php?/topic/10477-wasted-raid-triggers-and-the-public/

 

Explains all.

 

Strikes me that primary purpose of the Raid Rotation (Treaty?) Schedule is to maintain civility and mutual respect among the players in this relatively small Community.

 

All other implicit and explicit purposes of the Schedule (e.g. equitable loot distribution, intra-Guild planning and organisation) are secondary to this primary purpose.

 

Laws and treaties get broken occasionally. If the temptation to do what a law or treaty prohibits wasn't there, there would be no need for the law or treaty.

 

When parties to the treaty succumb to temptation, the only appropriate response is for the parties who breached to apologise, Altering, suspending or eliminating an agreement that took effort, compromise and diplomacy to establish, in an attempt to retrospectively excuse a breach of the agreement, is disingenuous and counter-productive.

 

Especially where the primary purpose of the agreement is so obviously beneficial to all parties involved.

 

I'll shut up now.

 

Thats exactly whats happening here, you got the letter and the spirit of the rotation to heart with your two posts. 

You are indeed a Holyman. ;)

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< Is TurboTerri, an original dev if you REALLY need to know how my second "T" is capital. Wompum is my main, No guild jumping im all Spaceballs. Plain and simple, Static and VGE dont seem to be able to take out thier targets in a timely manner. This is evident for the past 3 months. ( without mega boxing of course ) This + the fact that the Publics following target is killed at the very last moment, therefor taking a spawn away from us. There is no "Big 3" there is a big 2 BI and Epic. Static and VGE dont deserve thier own week for 2 or 3 people to get thier alts fitted out. Since Xotto went mia, somehow i became the raid whip cracker. If there is a target left up, it will die. Leave the warder up plz...... Spaceballs Will fly with whomever need help, swallow your pride and ask. But the fact remains, if your guild cant launch a raid without boxing up 4 or 5 toons, you DONT deserve a week to yourself. If this is the case, We want our own week. At this time, my normal raid group can and did take out every raid in the lowest possible time. Thats 1 group, nothing boxed, nothing outside. booyaa Spaceball 1 out
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I've interacted with most of you on some level at some point. I've done raids with BI, Efi/Pre has built me stuff before/helped me with multiple things, and I do the public raids. I've been fine with the rotation until I seen the GoBB trigger up for 5-6 days (undetermined as though I have no idea when it was actually spawned). I believe some kind of rotation reform needs to be done. I understand every guild goes through some kind of players leaving/taking time off, but there should be some repercussions/rules need to be happening. Just two weeks ago BI needed a Healer for RD base, so they asked the public. I joined. How hard is it to get other people involved? Again just my opinion :)

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There will be no change

We can complain, point out facts, state opinions till we are blue in the face

Things will not change

 

 

"The community" and all matters related anything effecting said 'Community" are decided by a small and select group of people

Those who have "Earned" the right to make such decisions

 

Why wont said guilds state how many members they have?  Not total toons mind you, but people, ACTIVE people

The rotation was set up to stop "Fighting over the spawns"  But now it has evolved into "Its ours and we will do with it as we wish"

 

All guilds/Groups are guilty,  As I type this the Public is in DT doing the raid, Ive been in game for 3 hours now, not 1 mention in chat that the raid was forming.  And yes, I have all chats open

 

 

There has been a lot of BS tossed around in this thread  

For a group with an average age in their late 40's   there is a lot of high school crap going on

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Speaking on behalf of BI Leadership, the Raid Rotation Treaty is still in effect.

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< Is TurboTerri, an original dev if you REALLY need to know how my second "T" is capital. Wompum is my main, No guild jumping im all Spaceballs. Plain and simple, Static and VGE dont seem to be able to take out thier targets in a timely manner. This is evident for the past 3 months. ( without mega boxing of course ) This + the fact that the Publics following target is killed at the very last moment, therefor taking a spawn away from us. There is no "Big 3" there is a big 2 BI and Epic. Static and VGE dont deserve thier own week for 2 or 3 people to get thier alts fitted out. Since Xotto went mia, somehow i became the raid whip cracker. If there is a target left up, it will die. Leave the warder up plz...... Spaceballs Will fly with whomever need help, swallow your pride and ask. But the fact remains, if your guild cant launch a raid without boxing up 4 or 5 toons, you DONT deserve a week to yourself. If this is the case, We want our own week. At this time, my normal raid group can and did take out every raid in the lowest possible time. Thats 1 group, nothing boxed, nothing outside. booyaa Spaceball 1 out

 

I would like to address a few things in your post.

 

"This + the fact that the Publics following target is killed at the very last moment, therefor taking a spawn away from us."

 

How often do you see this? I'm asking cause i'm in a position to know better as VGE holds the spot in front of public in the rotation system.

Has this happened?  Yes of course it has.

Is it the rule?  No more than BI (rotation slot ahead of VGE) starting a raid a few minutes before rotation changes and finishing well over into next rotation slot.

You don't see us complain for what is well within their right to do.

Furthermore, do you know why the rotation day/time change was revisited and adjusted to Monday noon from Saturday noon?

Because all parties involved in the rotation thought they can better organize at least ONE rotation raid during the weekends when a large number of their members are more likely to have time available to play the game (us being people with families/jobs and not just kids in school or college like in 2002).

Does that not happen for you too regardless if we do our raids on Saturday or Sunday?

 

 

"There is no "Big 3" there is a big 2 BI and Epic. Static and VGE dont deserve thier own week for 2 or 3 people to get thier alts fitted out."

 

Speaking of Public raids. Do you care to admit that more often than not Public raids include members of BI? I have personally witnessed on several occasions Magoo himself PUSH for a Public rotation raid to happen regardless if there are not enough players from Public guilds  around to fill up the ranks.

Have you heard by any chance the complaints from Public members that rotation raids were not announced AT ALL or they were turned away cause the ranks were filled WITH BI members? Cause yeah those instances do not spell Public rotation raid for me.

As for the select few fitting their alts with gear you don't have to see very far for people who have multiple Flingers and Hellfire Balistas (both looted and player made), Black Casters, Black Spitters, Black Streaks, Warder drops, BoL's etc advertising on market.

I have been playing non stop since we went live and i have exactly 2 Black Casters for my 3 Terrans, one Flinger player made, 2 Black Streaks for my 3 Jenquai, 2 Warder drops for my 2 Warriors, NO Progen gear (eg Black Spitter) since i don't play progens... you get the idea. Do you think i haven't gone to enough raids or killed Warder enough times to fill all my toons and maybe my mules twice over? Instead i have given away for FREE dozens of Intent engines, PBs, CVEs, BoLs, Warder drops (ok not dozens cause i hate camping him) and even my own 3rd caster or streak that i may had when i saw a guildie not having a single one, plus far too many items i can even remember right now. I have even given away outside of my guild and my friends if you are about to ask.

Can you say the same?

 

Seems to me this is indeed about greed, just not from Static and VGE.

 

 

PS: As i was writing this seems that Gunney validates one of my points

Edited by Efialtis

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HI Everyone , All Raid Rotations will stay as has been, for now ..I suggest a Guild Leader Meeting.. As of Right Now ..Static will host and Have the Gobb Raid come Sunday the 9th. before the turn on Monday. Until then. Raider out

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The "public" that wishs to raid should know or atleast ask which target is up next. There are afew that either will not, or "cant" get on ts. Those expecting to raid should be prepared on whichever toon or even toons they wish to raid with. Waiting for 1 person for an hour to make ammo is unacceptable. In Gunny's case, i did see him warp past the normal staging nav for DT. there was over a group sitting there. So i ask you, wouldnt you inquire? I have nothing against anyone, will raid with anyone, will help with rotation raids for others and not roll ( which i personally have done ). Why cant the others do the same? Leaving targets up for any major length of time isnt proper. The raids i personally was in that included BI peoples had no problems with this that you state. We always state if short on players, and before boxing up 6 man teams, that any guild is invited only after comming to the agreement of the "public" raiders present. If those that are opposed to this, im sure they werent even there to begin with and just want to whine. So i ask again, what is so hard about asking for help to kill a target to keep the timers ticking and the raiders happy? As for the the targets being taken out at the second, it doesnt seem very gentlemanly when its a 2 day spawn. This has been for atleast the last 3 months that i have seen. timezones dont mean all that much when its mostly just a 6 hour difference between the raid guilds. This system needs to change abit or guilds need to merge..... Spaceball 1 out ....
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Raiderman thanks to you and Whitemoon for taking care of this. As a Admiral in Static we consider this matter closed and hope to continue good relations with BI.

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Efi,  I simply saw that it was forming, then in progress, as to who or why it happened as it did I do not know

 

Zzexx,  I was going to check for an item in the vault (missing 2 looted bile cannon)  My wife had plans for me and I did not have time for a raid, my point was in regards to no announcement of the raid forming.

 

 

"This has all happened before, And it will all happen again"

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Just lost a bile myself the other day moving it to cargo ... feel your pain and grail water loss

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Grail Water is not a problem, Syber mines it all to use for his Coffee, so when ever he gives me a cup I refine it back to GW  =)

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So Zzexx what you are saying is if someone doesn't have TS they are out of luck cause Public raids have to be announced only there or TS is a prerequisite for raiding.

If someone isn't quick on his feet to "patrol" raid areas so he can see the forming raid groups they shouldn't be included.

If someone comes online at the last minute and wants to join but have to make ammo first he is not welcome (1h for ammo making ...seriously?).

If someones only high level toon is eg. a JD but you already have a JD then they are out of luck because everyone comes with the toon they want to even though as raid leader you (should) know the raiders that have multiple high level toons and they could switch to something else to fill the current needs.

If you're allowing a non Public player take up a spot in the rotation raid while there is a Public player available.

 

If all or any of the above takes place then imo you're not fit to be a Public raid leader cause you're doing it wrong.

The raid leader should be patient, able to explain to the participants the ammo/equipment needs for a particular raid even if he has stated them a thousand times before and be able to work with and around player toon preferences so as to include the maximum number of people available. Should announce in advance the intention of forming a raid as to give people time so they are aware of it and prepare as needed.

I know it can be a tough, mentally exhausting and mostly thankless job, at worst you'll be accused of something. If you're not up to it maybe someone else is. There is no cruise control for a raid leader.

 

I too will help others that ask for help or for my help specifically. I don't have anything against Public guilds, Static or even BI. Hell i have joined with BI on raids on occasion but there is a reason i don't want to see the Big 3 into Public rotation raids. Can you guess what that is? Yes, ALL these guilds have their own rotation spot to accommodate their members and they don't need to be taking the place of others. Their presence shouldn't force Public into action. Why?

I'll take your own reasoning and say without their extra help you cant do it.

 

It has always been members of these 3 guilds that have pioneered raids, found the weaknesses, the tactics applicable, the equipment needed to successfully complete them and passed all their knowledge and experience to the rest of the community.

Take it upon yourselves now to educate and guide the next wave of public raiders to success. We'll always be there to help but no more hand holding please.

 

Lastly i see you continue mumbling about timers ticking, not very gentlemanly behavior and whatnot. Have you even read the first paragraph on my previous post? Please read it and give me an answer. You don't want us to raid during the weekend so you could have a monday spawn despite the concession we all made for the day/time switch?

 

You all Have Fun out there.

Efialtis

Edited by Efialtis
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+1 for Efi's post above.

 

Public raiders are reminded that Static players are available on request to help at public raids if needed.

 

We still maintain a policy of not rolling for loot on public raids.

 

We believe that the public should get all the drops from their raids.

 

Hopefully this issue is drawing to a close for the time being.

 

We appreciate all the support from all sides and are willing to continue discussions as needed.

 

Finally we would urge anyone wishing to take matters into their own hands in future to open a discussion and see if the issue can be resolved without drama and without the risk of bringing your guild into disrepute.

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Grail Water is not a problem, Syber mines it all to use for his Coffee, so when ever he gives me a cup I refine it back to GW  =)

I only have 12 stacks of Grail water, had to cut back on the use in coffee ...... sorry Gunney

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Unicorn, If Anyone, regardless of their guild is invited to a Pub raid, they are free to roll on any loot, I hope your guild would not hold it against them if they do.

 

And Syber,  Get Syberella out in those fields  cant have a shortage of Coffee

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Stop putting words in my mouth. You know full well what i mean
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Greed pure simple greed. The rotation set aside equal time for all on each raid but some decide thats not enough and wanted more. If drama follows even better for them. A meeting took place in which members of BI (Magoo and Jamoos) gave its word that they would not break this rotation yet Sunday they formed a raid group and took a spawn that was not theirs to take. As for EG what the heck are you guys thinking? I talked to members of EG's leadership not that long ago and they assured me they wanted no part in drama yet here we are.

 

Static will not be bullied by a few who think they are entitled to set policy for the entire server. True colors have come out now lets see how long it takes for others to see them.

canman,eg is just hearing this from all sides,we still dont want to get involved but we do have eg members who have their own opinion..

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Who is being called out here? I don't see anyone being called out. I see facts being presented and opinions/input being called for. Your opinion has been noted. ;)

 

If you are specifically talking about my naming of Jamoos, well that is who made the statement on behalf of BI.  If he is not the leader of BI then perhaps we can get the input of the person who is actually in charge?

 

If you have a list of guild leaders server wide, I'd be happy to get that from you and speak directly with each of them. Since I don't have one, this is the only medium available to get the information to those leaders.

 

 

Fly Safe

 

-Alurra

hi alurra,im one of the epicgamers leaders..and im also on teamspeak very often if you want to speak to me directly

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Ah E&B emulator. Where we ressurect an old game, keeping the flaws everyone agreed it had in live, so we can sit on a forum and bitch about pixels for four pages. Why? Because the devs want epic loot to be rare. Can we all stop and laugh at the insanity of this debate? This fighting is over a problem that exists only because it is allowed to continue existing. The players are not to blame for a problem they did not create and do not maintain. Treaties and agreements have their place, but the fact that people have heartburn over this is not the players' fault.

 

This raid has been here for years. I think any legitimate claim to the loot needing to still be rare 3+ years on is...long since dead. Feel free to continue feeling bitter, but...at least admit I'm correct.

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Just saying. Nazi

 

Hi, German here - can you repeat this plz?

 

Just wann make sure it was no typo, before you face the dark side of the force....

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Hi, German here - can you repeat this plz?

 

Just wann make sure it was no typo, before you face the dark side of the force....

tumblr_lyf9928S0I1qzzsapo1_500.gif

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