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Xotto

Wasted Raid Triggers and the Public

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Some time ago, about a year I think, it was decided by the three largest guilds to include the public in their raid rotation schedule for RD Base, GoBB and Controller. Many expressed the opinion at the time that this was a waste of raids as the public was not a big guild and couldn't finish a raid. Time has shown however that the public has not failed to take down a trigger, server willing, even though it may take hours to form the groups.
 
Recently it has been observed that one or more of the big guilds is only doing one raid per week on some triggers. I would say this is a waste of one or two raids to let the trigger float. If a guild is unable or unwilling to do 3/4 triggers a week on thier rotation do they deserve that rotation slot? Epic Gamers can't quite field a raid group yet. Can we have a rotation slot? Having a rotation slot is a previlage to large guilds but if you can't protect this previlage perhaps you should lose it. I don't think a hostile public raid snipe is the first thing we should do though there are some who would like to try.
 
I suggest this solution: Either invite the public or become the public.
 
Discuss your feelings and opinions on the raid rotation and unused triggers and what to do about it here, and please be friendly about it.  :)
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I guess my only question would be. Is how is it determined when a raid trigger has been active for a long while (meaning it's the same trigger) as opposed to being a different trigger that has recently spawned? 

 

I know last week the RD base was spawning roughly every 40 hours. The variable timer appeared to be broken ....

 

With the implementation of Blacklungs raid sector my second and third question would be.

 

Other than to try and cause unwanted, uneeded and unwarranted drama WHY would anyone even suggest 'sniping' a raid trigger on any raid week? Wouldn't that be intentionally causing issues where none apparently have been since the last rotation was implemented?

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If you see a  trigger up and then check again 24 hours later and see it there does that not mean it has been sitting there for 24 hours? if you check back another 24 hours and again the trigger is there then it's been sitting there for 48 hours and so on. Another way to know how many raids a guild has done in a week is to ask. 

 

I'm not trying to stir up drama but any change likely will. I am not asking the public to take raids unasked. I'm merely asking for everyone to think about and discuss future options and reevaluate the rotation so fewer raids go unused.

 

I'm asking for <big3 guild> to invite the public to a raid instead of letting it go to waste.

 

Sorry for any confusion.

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I guess my only question would be. Is how is it determined when a raid trigger has been active for a long while (meaning it's the same trigger) as opposed to being a different trigger that has recently spawned? 

 

I know last week the RD base was spawning roughly every 40 hours. The variable timer appeared to be broken ....

 

With the implementation of Blacklungs raid sector my second and third question would be.

 

Other than to try and cause unwanted, uneeded and unwarranted drama WHY would anyone even suggest 'sniping' a raid trigger on any raid week? Wouldn't that be intentionally causing issues where none apparently have been since the last rotation was implemented?

Could not have put it better myself :)

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If you see a  trigger up and then check again 24 hours later and see it there does that not mean it has been sitting there for 24 hours? if you check back another 24 hours and again the trigger is there then it's been sitting there for 48 hours and so on. Another way to know how many raids a guild has done in a week is to ask. 

 

I'm not trying to stir up drama but any change likely will. I am not asking the public to take raids unasked. I'm merely asking for everyone to think about and discuss future options and reevaluate the rotation so fewer raids go unused.

 

I'm asking for <big3 guild> to invite the public to a raid instead of letting it go to waste.

 

Sorry for any confusion.

I assume that the public would not be rolling for the drops, much in the same way that Static or Static alts do not roll for drops at a public raid...

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Xotto

When I see a trigger up I want to kill it to, but I understand the reason for the current rotation system.  I would be upset if If one of the Big3 ran the raid slotted for public that week, regardless of the reason.

 

Unicorn Orion

In Public Raids all who shoot roll on items, If a Big3 member does not roll on loot it is due to your guilds rules, not Public rules.

Edited by Gunney
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What is the point of the rotation anyway? To get more gear? To reduce stress and community infighting? Prevent lag which increases difficulty or causes a server crash which despawns the trigger? If it's the first then having guilds hold the triggers with no intention of doing them for days on end certainly doesn't help get more drops. If it's the second well the rotation helps the majority of players which are in the three main guilds not yell at each other but for everyone else in a smaller or in no guild they're left seeing trigger spawns being wasted which leads to annoyance at the least. For the third well in this discussion the problem is the large guild isn't showing up so I guess solves the lag issue. Personally I see the gear reason as the main reason to have the rotation which is why I've been a little annoyed seeing the wasted spawns.

Ideally what I'd love to see is to take Xotto's idea and have the big 3 integrate the public into any off triggers that wouldn't get done otherwise for a considerable time. I could see it be run just like a public triggered FB raid is done now. The guild which has the rotation can either ask someone in the public to host or host the raid themselves and would reserve items which are declared before the raid starts. The members of the guild would have priority for placement into parties and of course at their discretion could call the whole thing off and do it themselves if their members finally show up. 

Even with that idea, to help encourage some better behavior we might be wise to add a penalty. The most obvious way to solve the issue of timeliness is to say after 36-48 hours of a trigger being noted as available with no raid starting then that trigger and all the rest of the triggers for that week are given to the next group in the rotation in the hope they're better organized. It's obvious at that point the original group doesn't want to do the raid that week so relieve them off it. ;) Furthermore if that becomes a continuing trend then it'd become obvious which group would need to be removed from the rotation and steps then could be taken as Xotto recommended. Note this would also apply to the Public losing it's triggers.

Currently the public raids allow people from the big 3 to join when there isn't quite enough to safely complete the raid with just members of the public. All I'd like to see is the same situation reversed with the big 3 inviting the public so the triggers can be used in a timely manner.

Finally to Unicorn, of course if someone wants to go help in Static's raid they'd follow Static's rules but why would anyone from the public help Static when they can't roll? Also keep in mind what Gunney said and don't try to apply your guild rules to us in the public raids.

The GMs have said over and over that this rotation business is all on us so even with all this I'm hoping we can keep it working at the same (mostly) smooth level.

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It was brought to my attention, via a private message, that apparently there is a 'rumor' circulating that Static guild was shuttering the doors and removing ourselves from the raid rotations. I believe this is where this particular topic is trying to lead. I thought I would help alleviate any wonderings and such regarding this rumor.

 

It is rumor and speculation only. Static is going along just fine and we intend to keep our raid slot, but thank you to all of you who are always thinking of us and our well being. It is such a great feeling knowing that we are always in your thoughts and our name on your lips. Truly, it is a blessing.

 

To all of you who run around the server ensuring all the raid triggers have been 'pulled' in a timely fashion, based on your understanding of a timely fashion, we all appreciate the hard work you continue to do, keep up the great work.

 

So, in conclusion. Static is not going anywhere. Static is not now, nor have we been discussing dropping out of the rotation. You can consider that part of the rumor mill disassembled.

 

Fly Safely

 

-Alurra

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Xotto

When I see a trigger up I want to kill it to, but I understand the reason for the current rotation system.  I would be upset if If one of the Big3 ran the raid slotted for public that week, regardless of the reason.

 

Unicorn Orion

In Public Raids all who shoot roll on items, If a Big3 member does not roll on loot it is due to your guilds rules, not Public rules.

Please investigate the original agreement.

 

Public raids are for public pilots to get access to raid drops. That is why the public have a place in the rotation.

 

'Big three' pilots have their own raids for access to raid drops. Static do not roll on public raids upholding the original agreement.

 

If there has been a change to this please let us know the details. I am sure that there will be a much greater participation from Static pilots if they can roll along with everyone else.

 

Regards...

 

Uni

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Ralen please note,

 

The agreement of the 'big three' not rolling on public raid was agreed by VGE, Static and Builders inc. when the public raid week was introduced into the rotation.

 

It is not my guild rule although it appears that not everyone has abided by it I can confidently say have no knowledge or evidence that suggests that Static have not stuck to this agreement.

 

Regards,

 

uni

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With the implementation of Blacklungs raid sector...

This in my opinion is the most important fact here. You want loot from a specific raid?....Then this (Blacklung's Raid sector) would be the best way to go about this while adhering to current raid rotations. Obviously, BL is doing this for a reason...namely giving people who need gear extra opportunities to obtain that which they are looking for. Even better, this content merely requires credits (which is easily enough obtained ingame) instead of waiting for some trigger to spawn. I think this new system/raid content is pretty fair and a win-win for the community at large. Most of all, I am inclined to think that it would help keep the peace and hold discontent down to a minimum.

 

As for who does what on a given raid rotation...who cares. It's a total non-issue as far as I am concerned and completely irrelevant when you take BL's new content into account. Let sleeping dogs lie.

 

Man, I must have celebrated a little too soon after EV got the boot...

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Please investigate the original agreement.

 

Public raids are for public pilots to get access to raid drops. That is why the public have a place in the rotation.

 

'Big three' pilots have their own raids for access to raid drops. Static do not roll on public raids upholding the original agreement.

 

If there has been a change to this please let us know the details. I am sure that there will be a much greater participation from Static pilots if they can roll along with everyone else.

 

Regards...

 

Uni

Im not sure what the confusion is on the matter?   When the public needs a few pilots to fill spots for a raid we ask in general chat. Those who join us to fill empty slots are allowed to roll on items. This is how the "Public Guild" runs the raids. If you were to answer our call to fill a slot for a raid durring the publics rotation you would be allowed to roll on items per "public rules", now if your guild rules prevent you from assisting in the raid and/or rolling on items that is between you and your guild.

 

If your guild were to ask if any public want to assist them for a raid, it would be your guilds choice on if they would be able to roll on items in that raid. Simply state so when asking if you do.

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I really cannot see why we are having this conversation , with 'Public' week and BL new raid sector isn't there enough raids to go round without trying to rock the 'rotation' boat ? It seems like a bit of greed is seeping in as far as i can see . If any of the BIG 3 fail at some point to take their triggers who's loss is that ? ITS THEIRS . They have to wait weeks for the rotation to come back around . The community has been getting along just fine lately and i for one would like to keep it that way :) 

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I really cannot see why we are having this conversation , with 'Public' week and BL new raid sector isn't there enough raids to go round without trying to rock the 'rotation' boat ? It seems like a bit of greed is seeping in as far as i can see . If any of the BIG 3 fail at some point to take their triggers who's loss is that ? ITS THEIRS . They have to wait weeks for the rotation to come back around . The community has been getting along just fine lately and i for one would like to keep it that way :)

But but I want my cookies and yours too!!!! Kids these days huh prre?

 

We all know who is behind all this. He takes delight in spreading his lies to stir up drama. I wonder if he knows just how many people laugh at him all the time. 

Edited by Canman
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o/

 

hey guys.

 

I don't wanna offend anyone or whatever. so i'll make my opinion simple.

 

 

 

Public had to jump thru hoops to get the raid rotation slot, they even had to pass tests! .....we got told we'd never be able to do it, and we'd be the ones wasting the triggers, then we weren't worthy to have a slot...

 

 

 

thanks, and like I said no offence intended, but anyone who has payed attention to the forums back when this rotation added public knows this is public knowledge.

 

 

Cia

 

 

(I personally think we keep skip week, and add the the dt raid once its deemed there is enough people with faction. (hopefully everyone who has faction will be allowed/raid together until that point))

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Our policy (BI) is to only participate when invited. Also we roll on loot only if the public says we can before the raid. With that said I have helped out in multiple public raids and have always heard you shoot you loot.

The second thing I'd like to talk about is the wasting trigger topic. My understanding previously is the rotation is an agreement between the big 3. With that said it use to be that if a public group is able to get together a reasonable size group and start the raid before one of the big three, the big three are not to interfere. Is this still the case? (I was on a break when the public raid week came about so I'm unsure if an alternate agreement was made.) Edited by s20justin

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Our policy (BI) is to only participate when invited. Also we roll on loot only if the public says we can before the raid. With that said I have helped out in multiple public raids and have always heard you shoot you loot.

The second thing I'd like to talk about is the wasting trigger topic. My understanding previously is the rotation is an agreement between the big 3. With that said it use to be that if a public group is able to get together a reasonable size group and start the raid before one of the big three, the big three are not to interfere. Is this still the case? (I was on a break when the public raid week came about so I'm unsure if an alternate agreement was made.)

With the public having a week in the raid, they are bound by the raid rules as the big 3 are, so the short answer is no, they should not be triggering raids outside of their rotation slot.

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With the public having a week in the raid, they are bound by the raid rules as the big 3 are, so the short answer is no, they should not be triggering raids outside of their rotation slot.

 

Agreed.  I think trying to mess with the existing agreement is just asking for trouble within the community.   If for some reason that a major guild, or the public, cannot use their normal spot in the rotation it should not be taken away from them by someone else.  They just have to wait until their next turn comes, or use BL's raid sector. 

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