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Gunney

Raid Rotation Discussion Time For A Change?

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"Here we go again"

Lets get that one out of the way first........

 

There are no current issues between groups or individuals going on that I am aware of, therefore they would not be a factor in a discussion.

Things have changed since the rotation was put in place, the server is not as it was then

The issue on the rotation has popped up several times, but it is never discussed. Its simply swept aside as a parent would dismiss a child when interrupting an 'Adult conversation'. I chose that comparison because that's how MANY of you act on matters of the game, that your opinions are what matters and others know nothing worth listening to.

 

"If you remove the rotation, the multiboxers will take all the spawns"

This is just silly and a crappy reply to the issue. If multiboxers were an issue then the rotation would do nothing to stop them.

 

"You don't want it going back to the way it was before the rotation, BL almost shut it all down due to the fighting and bickering"

 I agree at the time the rotation was a viable solution to the issue, But do you really think things are now as they were then? Do you really think there would be fighting? Id like to think that with a rough age average of over 50years old that wont happen, and the spawns are nothing new.

 

"Greed Plain and Simple Greed"

OK  Sure Id like to do more raids, but there are two sides to the coin on this one. Currently, each week the Guild controls when their raid is done, yes Public does the same 7PMish EST like clockwork. By removing the rotation each group would loose their control on raids, and they don't want that to happen now do they

 

"Why don't you just use the Public Raid Sector"

The PRS is open to all, never know when it will be opened up, the community has to work as a group to take down a raid, Awesome Idea!!  So why isn't this mentality applied to the other raids?

 

"Why don't you do the GR/FB?"

Another 'Open to all' option,  are there any fights/issues/problems there?

 

PRS/GR/FB have tossed into rotation topics in the past as an option for those who oppose the rotation, if they are OK for everyone at any time why not ALL raids?

 

"The Big 3 held a meeting on the matter"

 3 years ago you guys were the largest guilds, when was the last recount? of active players that is, not in game toons. And how many are members of several guilds?

Now don't get your panties in a bunch, I understand ALL that the guild leaders have done for the game, it wouldn't be where it is without you guys and your efforts.

 

The server isn't where it was then, we are at an average of about 80 on per day, 120ish on weekends. The few times the PRS has opened up it has taken abit to gather enough to form a group. There are several on at hours 'other than the main server population' who haven't done many raids because the spawn has been taken down or their 'rotation group' isn't big enough, and there are those who rarely miss one, and  those whom the raids are at times put on hold for.

 

 

 

OK, there it is. I have opened "That Door" once again.

Aside from those who will bash me or seek to have me banished for doing so, what are your thoughts on the rotation?

 

 

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good points gunney,i also feel that the game has matured and also the player base.like you said,if people were to multi-box they would do it anyway regardless..i also like how many of the guilds work together now instead of bickering..i feel also that if this topic becomes a "slugfest" it will be dismissed like the other topics on rotations...if the public replies to this,lets just put in honest opinions ok

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Be careful what you wish for.

 

I can see this creating more issues than it will solve.

 

Some players are by nature competitive. This action could be the closest thing we see to PVP.

 

who can get formed up first and get the raid done...

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"Be careful what you wish for."

 I know this all to well, which is why I made the post looking for other perspectives

 

"who can get formed up first and get the raid done..."

 Forgot about this one, and I do recall when BL would spawn several bosses in a secter that you couldnt get an invite to a group. The groups would be of a single guild or multiboxed.

 

"I don't think that the rotation is the issue, but a time zone issue."

 I feel it is abit of both, If a spawn were to happen in the PST time zone, there really arent enough online in each of the 4 groups to pull it off. Now if it wasnt restricted by the rotation then the entire online population may be able to do it.

 

"Keep it as it is"

    Its not a poll, Im not out to remove it, but I do feel there is room for improvement and Im looking for thoughts or Ideas from others

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I know its not a poll , 'keep it as it is' Is my thoughts On the matter. As i have said in the past this system works just fine , opening up the spawns to a free for all WILL result in a select few taking all.Rotation means everyone that can be bothered to attend has equal chance of these 'boss spawn' loots.And do we realy want to go back to camping spawn locations ? I for one dont ! Edited by Prrekoorb
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I don't think the raid rotation is for keeps control of the said mentioned raids, but to keep Order from disorder.

 

That seems to me to be the most salient point.

 

Maybe "The Order" is less than perfect. Maybe it does need to be revisited and possibly revised.

 

Maybe the idea of "The Big 3 Guilds" is a bit past it's sell-by date, because it's more like 15 or 20 guildies on-line max at any one time that is now the qualification for a "Big Guild"... Which is certainly very different from Live, and quite different from the Emulator in recent years.

 

But...

 

If it's a choice between an Order that is generally effective, understood and comprehended, however imperfect or anachronistic that Order is...

 

Or Disorder.

 

I'll take the imperfect Order any day of the week.

 

The purpose of the Rotation Schedule is not to ensure an equitable division of loot or the Raid Experience; it is to provide some sort of framework that prevents those who can't naturally co-operate and co-habit from kicking up a negative and emotional stink when they don't get their way.

 

As I understand it, there are already a few of the decent loot spawns (e.g. Modi's bits n' kids; the Warder &c.) that have "owners", who leverage that ownership to stockpile and control the loot those spawns drop. If that sort of dynamic were to be in play with the timed Raids as well, that'd be pretty much curtains for this Emulator.

 

The Rotation Schedule as it stands does not negate the possibility of Guilds (however big or small) and the Public from co-operating and sharing.

 

A chaotic and contentious Free-For-All would negate a *LOT* of things: and not just the raids.

 

:unsure:

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TBH Syber pretty much hit the nail on the head for me,

Time zones are the issue ( I have known triggers to be there all day my time) and I tend to miss a lot of raids due to this. I can offer no answer because it's simply down to when most people are online and unfortunately for me it's around 00:00 - 01:00 am my time. Frustrating YES because I have to prioritize work with raid loot but I don't really blame anyone just because  there are not many UK or people nearer to my time zone playing. I would leave the rotation as it is and hope the big 3 ask for help now and then perhaps in the hope I and my fellow time zone players might get to raid more often.

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Holyman

 

"If it's a choice between an Order that is generally effective, understood and comprehended, however imperfect or anachronistic that Order is...

Or Disorder.

I'll take the imperfect Order any day of the week."

 

  I agree with this, but that doesn't mean adjustments cant be made as dynamics change

 

"Maybe the idea of "The Big 3 Guilds" is a bit past it's sell-by date, because it's more like 15 or 20 guildies on-line max at any one time that is now the qualification for a "Big Guild"

 

   Server Population has changed, and Static/VGE/BI, other guilds, and non guild populations have as well.  'Balance' would req sorting the numbers and coming up with a new plan. Time Zones are an issue as are players ability to play at reg times.  Only Devs have the info needed for this, and they have stated they will not partake in the situation. 

 

Prre

" opening up the spawns to a free for all WILL result in a select few taking all "

 

 I do not want that, and it has come to my attention that the server isn't adult enough to "Play nice" together

 

" As i have said in the past this system works just fine"

 

It works, Yes,  through community pressure on those who dont follow the "rules"

Just fine?    At the time the system was drawn up, Yes  100% agree.  Now, I do not.  

 

 

Hobies

"Well put Prre - I think you've said about all that I'd want to say at this point on the subject.."

 

 At this point? Is there something your waiting for someone to bring up? Or something you dont want to mention and hope it doesnt get brought up?

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For the record,  I am not out to piss people off or throw things into an uproar.

Most of those who replied I do not know in game, at least not by their posted name.

 

I get into raids when I can, once a week, twice a week sometimes, other times not for several weeks.

There are those like Pest who may see a raid every 3-4 months.

And there are those who are at every single flippin raid, over half the Public group fall into this

 

I know someone will say "That's something the Public group needs to work out".

Well If that were possible perhaps. However when the Public group has 2-3 times the number of players with a raid able toon as each of "The Big 3" do,

then perhaps restructuring of some sort is needed.

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Maybe I can suggest something here.

 

1) Do not rush trigger all the time, especially if you know it's your last raid for the rotation. Spare some thoughts for others who couldn't attend. It doesn't hurt to wait a few more hours just to let people who aren't in your usual time zone of raids to attend. This way, everyone wins.

 

2) Since regular people are attending raids all the time, show considerations for others who can only attend raids once in a blue moon. For VGE, I always see good examples of volunteers to sit out raids should we exceed the group limits, be it fishbowls, gateraids, or regular raids.

 

3) Help one another. You don't win the game when you have 6 toons with 6 spitters/casters. You win the game when you have 6 different players all geared for the raids. I assume regulars by now are just rolling for their alts. Why not let someone who seldom participate raids have a better chance to win raid items?

 

On a side note, take a good look at warder or modi's child or some particular hulks that's always camped. Is that what you really want for a change? Since public group has 2-3 times the number of people, maybe you can start with the warder platform first. Correct me if I'm wrong, I do see public group sometimes having issue gathering people for raids.

 

 

 

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good opionions im seeing here,thank you guys for keeping this topic mature...

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I have thought about this for the last few days before saying anything.  In the past, I was totally against anything that caused wars and arguments, and turns out, my opinion on this matter is same as in the past, but for totally different reasons as in the past.  I am fine with the rotation as it stands right now and here is why.  It keeps order, and for the most part everyone sticks to the rotation pretty well.  The reason my reasons are different as in the past was because I was dogged with the term "Big Three" in the past and felt like I had no say so in the matter, since the majority of the server would be part of these Big Three and obviously they know better than I and I should just listen to what is happening and just not have an opinion on the matter.  

 

All that said, I am not in a Guild that is considered in the Big Three and I am ok with that.  Being part of the Guild I am in, I know when the spawn comes up for the Public raids, that more of the team members in that Raid are from the guild I am in.  I am not saying that we "own" the public raid, what I am saying is, I am very encouraged in the cross guild friendships I see during these public raids.  This mirrors what the OP stated, that the older we all get, the more we all seem to get along.  It is very evident in TS when these are going on.

 

Another post here stated that the Public couldnt get enough players to Raid all the time, and I would beg to differ, that usually there are more than plenty that show up and more often than not, there is no multi boxing going on.  Maybe the looter is multi box or something, but for the most part, there is plenty of participation from multiple guilds.  There are some times, the second something spawns, later at night, that a few public people try to get a raid together and shout in General and in the end never raid until the next day, but that is not the Norm and could give the perception that the public still sucks at raiding

 

I do agree with Syber, that timezone issue for some players is rough, but honestly, with any MMO, this issue will exist.  If you want to raid and roughly the raids happen at the same time of day, either make it or dont.  I dont make every one of them, not even alot of them, but I do enjoy them when I do them.

 

All that said, I used to feel "lesser than" being only a "Public" raider, but based on server populations and flying around the server and seeing guild tags, it is pretty apparent that the "public" or even "the guild I am in" is no longer the "lesser than". I think I prefer being the Public catagory and have made friends with other guilds that that I have than being in the "Big Three"....I honestly think we are bigger in size than most of the Big Three even if the stats on Net 7 say that those guilds are huge based on character counts.

 

Here is something that I wonder though.  In the Public raids, like I said, our guild seems to start up the raids more frequently than most, we dont even think about hording it, we immediately make sure the whole server knows its happening and anyone qualified can come.  But if the end result the OP is looking for is for the whole server to get along open up more Raiding for everyone, that why doesnt the Big Three invite people in for their weekly raids more often like the Public does? They get to retain the raids, they control when they go down, no hurt feelings.  So what if there are 6 more players in their raids.  I get that is less likely to get loot from the raid, if they allow the outsiders to roll on them, but how many people really fight over Raid loot anymore?  

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Personally i agree with all those who said leave it as it is.

As most everyone agreed things are calm and going well right now so there is no need to stir the pot.

 

There are always those who will thrive on conflict and our efforts to accommodate players from all timezones will be called out as ungentlemanly behavior.

And then there are those that "feel the need" to have toons spread out into multiple 'competing' guilds.

 

So yeah, leave it as it is pls.

 

Continue having fun out there,

Efialtis.

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Murfree

Another post here stated that the Public couldnt get enough players to Raid all the time, and I would beg to differ, that usually there are more than plenty that show up and more often than not, there is no multi boxing going on.  Maybe the looter is multi box or something, but for the most part, there is plenty of participation from multiple guilds.  There are some times, the second something spawns, later at night, that a few public people try to get a raid together and shout in General and in the end never raid until the next day, but that is not the Norm and could give the perception that the public still sucks at

 

The Public can do any raid out there, as long as it is between 6PM-9PM EST.  After that there arent enough Pub in game and the trigger sits untill 6PM the following day

 

Murfree

I do agree with Syber, that timezone issue for some players is rough, but honestly, with any MMO, this issue will exist.  If you want to raid and roughly the raids happen at the same time of day, either make it or dont.

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I had a discussion on this in game.
What made it work when EA had the game?
Speaking as a Pegasusian there were few and far between Guild only raids. IIRC

You''l have to remember that there were also 1000s of players on Pegasus.

The root of the issue (I know your going to hate this), Multi-boxing.

EAs EnB cost $15 a month per account. IIRC, so not too many players had the need or the money to have multiple accounts.
I had 1 guild member that multiboxed in EA live, I thought it was amazing at the time, but not now.

With this Emulator, its free, No account limit per IP address so everyone with 1,2, or 3 PC can run multiple accounts on our little Single Realm/Server. If your PCs are of good to great quality, you could run an entire formation of your characters, and I have seen this, because I have done it also.
How many times have you/Us looked at your characters and deduced well this one needs this and this one that, I'll get the JE to wormhole all 6 to Kalassa and put some pain on the Mords.

The last few days I have been playing the game a lot (More than I should). The community is awesome, there is no doubt!

In the past year and a half the rebel rousers and bitchers have since been put on ignore in game and on the forums or have left the game altogether. By by !

It is too late to do something with multi-boxing now, it has become a crutch with some of us or "I'm Leaving the game if you take away multi-boxing" thing is heard aloud.

 

The DEVs have decided not to get involved into raid rotation matters. Because that is a player/community matter that ONLY THEY can work out.

 

From a players view, If It promotes harmony and currently works, leave it alone.

My suggestion:

Open Raids.
Every Raid all the time.

I have given guilds kudos for opening guild sponsored raids for open invitations TO ALL. 
I know I have said this before, "Your chances WILL increase to get the item you want" if all guilds open their raids.

Because your doing more of them!
Open raid bidding on the item you want is a great credit sink, If you know how and have the patients to pull it off.

[attachment=3315:raid.jpg]

Then divvy up the proceeds.
I know the ammo spitting races can use the credits for their time, effort and cost.

Sure it is perfectly normal and expected for a guild to reserve 1 item from a raid they are sponsoring.

just let everyone know ahead of time.

Between all of my regular characters (5) and I don't play that much, I have maybe have somewhere between 80 to 110 million credits.

So I could use a few mill from a bidding raid.

[attachment=3314:two cents.jpg]

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Phorlaug

The root of the issue (I know your going to hate this), Multi-boxing

 

    Yes, it is possible for 1 or a few people to do the raids multiboxing, but do you really think they would? Or that they would have the chance? The 'Public Group' is a melting pot of many guilds, over the past few years we have not had an issue with multiboxing. No one/few players have taken the spawn and left the rest without. In fact, if someone is dual boxing and another person shows up, that player drops one and the new player steps in.

*If* the community decided to drop the rotation, it would be like adding 3 guilds to the pot, Is one of the members of these 3 guilds the one who will do the multiboxing takeover?

 

Phorlaug

Open raid bidding on the item you want is a great credit sink, If you know how and have the patients to pull it off.

 

    Then the ones with the credits will control all the loot

 

Phorlaug

Sure it is perfectly normal and expected for a guild to reserve 1 item from a raid they are sponsoring.

just let everyone know ahead of time.

 

     I like this   I have no issues with reserving an item for the guild whose week it is. however we would need to take another look at the guilds and their active members then adjust accordingly.

 

Cimbad

good opionions im seeing here,thank you guys for keeping this topic mature...

 

I agree, thanks for keeping it a discussion

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I will defend Phorlaug on the bidding of items.  I was on Peggie server on live as well and this worked amazingly.  Gunney is saying that only those with credits get the loot.....but the system worked that all that raided profited from the raid, even if you didnt win an item.  Once all items were bid on and paid for, the pool of money was then split equally to all the raiders, so you at least got something for at least showing up and raiding.  I dont think this would work so much on the Emu as credits are pretty easy to obtain and do not hold any real value.

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Since reading Gunneys post about the big 3 perhaps no longer being the big three these days I have made a point of keeping an eye open for the guild tags flying past me etc.

I have to agree with him that perhaps this needs to be reviewed because tbh I see lots more players from another guild that's not classed as the big 3 than I do with 2 of the classed big 3 and no it's not even my guild before anyone thinks  I hidden agenda.

I like the rota and yes it works but not so sure that the at the moment big 3 should keep their spot unchecked now there are other large or perhaps larger guilds that should really be taking the spot if they can no longer manage to do their raids without multiboxing ( I don't think it's fair a guild should keep a trigger all week if they have to multibox rather than open it out to help), after all the public are expected to raid with this rule.

So in short I feel that the rota should be reviewed as to who are the big three guilds with the most active players and updated. As with everything in life things change in time and if they are still as large as they have been, then they will keep their spots but if they are not then it's time to let somebody else have it.

As always it's just my opinion and not aimed at anyone or meaning to offend anyone.

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Traderben

Is there a council of some sort that discusses these things?

 

The leaders of  BI  VGE  and VGE  and I believe 2 from the Pub Group, meet when there is an issue, I do not think they would discuss any 'radical' changes that would alter their spot in a rotation.  Im asking for input from ALL players on the matter, not the select few.  As I stated above Im not looking to overthrow the system or cause issues, But if changes are due then I feel a discussion on it BEFORE things get heated or chaotic would be better.

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