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Gunney

Raid Rotation Discussion Time For A Change?

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Week 1 and Week 3 are Guild Assigned: to the "Big"/"mini"/whatever sized Guilds.

 

The Guilds in the rotation rotate through those weeks.

 

Week 2 and Week 4 are Assigned to the Public.

 

Rinse and Repeat.

 

Would also look (something) like this:

 

Six-Week Rotation:

 

Week 1: BI

Week 2: Public

Week 3: Static

Week 4: Public

Week 5: VGE

Week 6: Public.

 

More simply:

 

Every other week is Public.

 

Guilds organise their agreed rotation through the non-Public weeks.

 

(Still just brain-storming!)

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Holyman this is the currant raid setup.

 

Static =  Troller      | DT           | Rd Base    | GoBB
BI       =  GoBB       | Troller     |DT              | Rd Base
VGE   =  Rd Base   | GoBB      | Troller       | DT
Pubs   = DT            | Rd Base  | GoBB        | Troller

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Thanks Syber. That's instructive... Can see immediately where my assumptions were incomplete...!

 

So, if we take that existing rotation and flip it around 90 degrees:

 

                    Week 1      Week 2     Week 3     Week 4

 

'Troller         Static         BI              VGE          Public

DT               Public        Static         BI              VGE

RD Base      VGE          Public        Static         BI

GoBB          BI               VGE          Public        Static

 

Which means that in the current Raid Rotation four-weekly cycle, 75% of the Raids are allocated to three guilds; only 25% of the Raids are allocated to everyone else not in those three guilds.

 

If this were adjusted so that the three guilds were allocated 50% of the Raids, and everyone else not in those three guilds were also allocated 50%:

 

                    Week 1      Week 2     Week 3     Week 4     Week 5     Week 6

 

'Troller         Static         Public        VGE          Public       BI              Public

DT               Public        BI               Public       Static        Public        VGE

RD Base      VGE          Public         BI             Public       Static         Public

GoBB          Public         Static         Public        VGE        Public        BI

 

The Public (i.e. Non-Static/BI/VGE) are allocated two of the four raids every week. 

 

Each of Static, BI and VGE get a raid allocated to them 2 weeks out of every 3.

 

I suppose the question is:

 

Are 75% of the human players (rather than accounts/characters) who are active in the Game in a six-week period, all members of Static, VGE & BI?

 

If so... Then it would be hard to justify changing the existing Rotation.

 

But if the number of Static, VGE and BI players who actually play the Game in a six-week period is closer to 50% of the population... Then this adjustment (or something similar) becomes more justifiable.

 

(*DEFINITELY* still just spit-balling..!!)

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I would still like to see everyone get along and play together,  perhaps in that mix replace the '2nd' public slot as OPEN so we can see how that goes, also if a guild has a no raid week, they should be the first to fill any open slots  "going by the example above"

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As I said earlier, a can of worms.

 

I would suggest the following, leave the rotation as it is. Just add a "Do NOT Multibox a schedueled raid" and "take the trigger down withing 26h of it being spawned" to the gentlemens agreement and we are should have a big issue about the unfairness of the loot distribution out of the way. Of cause there would have to be some monitoring on people sticking to that praticular rule, but it is something nobody can seriously argue; Live Player over Boxed Toon any day!

The Guild assigned to the particular raid would be in charge of the organisation (set a time, put the groups together and doing the lotto). This gives VGE, Static and BI the chance to look after the interest of thier playerbase by picking convinient times to launch the raid. 

 

Bonus:

All raidgroups are filled with live players.

All raids are taken down in a timely fashion while an element of planning for the particular clan to get a lot of thier own players online remains.

The CoreIdea of the raidscheduel remains intact.

 

 

It will likely promote a big change.  

 

It would still not adress the issues of Raids outside of Eastern Primetime being a rare event. Maybe Cimbad can discuss this with Woodstock and BL to see if the PRS can be untilized to adress this. 

 

Cheers Hestha

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I agree with flamingpanda on the 'trigger' , i believe i have said this before in other 'raid rotation' posts. Leave the current system as it is OR make them a triggered event thus making all players work for a goal .

Edited by Prrekoorb
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I agree with flamingpanda on the 'trigger' , i believe i have said this before in other 'raid rotation' posts. Leave the current system as it is OR make them a triggered event thus making all players work for a goal .

Agreed Again!!

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End game raid content is unfortunately crippled in the emulator. We all want that content, some more than others, but we have to make concessions so it remains fun and enjoyable and not an exercise in frustration.

ALL raids can be done with a single group who has a plan and works well together. I know for a fact that we in VGE can do that and i've seen posts from others stating the same.
Raids are under-powered to various degrees and there is one main reason for that.

A high player count in a single area is problematic. I think most will agree that 2 groups is the tipping point before lag and disconnections ruin the fun and effectiveness of everyone involved. Unfortunately the server can't handle the background graphics. decorations, Space objects, NPCs, enemies and all the players ships, weapon and skill efects and calculations. I believe the current state of development makes nearly impossible for the devs to change this.
It would have been a blessing if we could all work together.

I'll admit the rotation schedule is by no means perfect but i feel the proposed 6 week change has the same issues with the current. It seems you think Static raids with BI, BI raids with VGE etc

In the current schedule BI, Static, VGE and Public are allotted one slot for the same raid effectively performing the same raid once per month or 25% within the schedule.
In the proposed schedule Static, BI and VGE are allotted one slot every 6 weeks for the same raid (~16%) and Public 3 same raids within the 6 weeks (50%).

I wonder if this can be considered a fair improvement by all.


An issue of Timezones(TZ) was mentioned. We have observed that if a raid is completed within the confines of a TZ the next spawn usually happens within that TZ again giving to the same people the ability to redo the raid in their time. This will roll over to the next rotation slot and so on until someone complains.
Its hard enough as it is to resolve that within a single guild, i've seen it, let alone when multiple guilds with multiple members scattered across all TZ are involved.
 
Lastly i gotta ask. What are the rules of public rotation raids regarding who can participate and loot distribution in addition to having toons in multiple 'raid competing' guilds.
Can i have a toon in eg Sirius Cybernetic Corporation, Driver Carries no Cash, The Disciples of Ore and in VGE or Static or BI? Does that give me the opportunity to participate in all scheduled rotation raids and loot distribution? I know VGE, BI and Static have their own rules about that so what are the Publics rules on those?
If Public rotation raids are open to everyone and Prrekoorb, Allura and Raiderman join one before the ranks are full, then a Public player shows up later what are the rules about that?

Changes without clarifying the underlying rules wont resolve the rotation issues.
Make a concise proposition that addresses all the points of concern, i believe reasonable people play this game and you will find allies if what you say is well thought out.

If you think making these events triggered will remove all rotation issues i'll support it even though i fear they will bring more serious problems for the player base.

Fly safe and Have fun
Efialtis

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I am pretty sure the hard coding keeps us from being able to do triggers for raids, and any attempt to monitor multi boxing is impossible as well.  Even if the Devs could do this, they wouldn't.  Id love to know if they could supply Raid data though, IE How often raids are taken down, by how many toons, and make it historical.  I would believe that they would have some sort of logs for this request.  It would answer how many times Raids are simply taken with one full group and would show how often Raids are wasted each week.  We could figure out which group had those raids based on the dates, and understand if they are able to take full advantage of their rightful raids.  I understand that its "none of my business" what the guild does with their raid, to do it or not, but is it because they choose to not do them when they are up or because they cant?

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End game raid content is unfortunately crippled in the emulator. We all want that content, some more than others, but we have to make concessions so it remains fun and enjoyable and not an exercise in frustration.

ALL raids can be done with a single group who has a plan and works well together. I know for a fact that we in VGE can do that and i've seen posts from others stating the same.
Raids are under-powered to various degrees and there is one main reason for that.

A high player count in a single area is problematic. I think most will agree that 2 groups is the tipping point before lag and disconnections ruin the fun and effectiveness of everyone involved. Unfortunately the server can't handle the background graphics. decorations, Space objects, NPCs, enemies and all the players ships, weapon and skill efects and calculations. I believe the current state of development makes nearly impossible for the devs to change this.
It would have been a blessing if we could all work together.

I'll admit the rotation schedule is by no means perfect but i feel the proposed 6 week change has the same issues with the current. It seems you think Static raids with BI, BI raids with VGE etc

In the current schedule BI, Static, VGE and Public are allotted one slot for the same raid effectively performing the same raid once per month or 25% within the schedule.
In the proposed schedule Static, BI and VGE are allotted one slot every 6 weeks for the same raid (~16%) and Public 3 same raids within the 6 weeks (50%).

I wonder if this can be considered a fair improvement by all.


An issue of Timezones(TZ) was mentioned. We have observed that if a raid is completed within the confines of a TZ the next spawn usually happens within that TZ again giving to the same people the ability to redo the raid in their time. This will roll over to the next rotation slot and so on until someone complains.
Its hard enough as it is to resolve that within a single guild, i've seen it, let alone when multiple guilds with multiple members scattered across all TZ are involved.
 
Lastly i gotta ask. What are the rules of public rotation raids regarding who can participate and loot distribution in addition to having toons in multiple 'raid competing' guilds.
Can i have a toon in eg Sirius Cybernetic Corporation, Driver Carries no Cash, The Disciples of Ore and in VGE or Static or BI? Does that give me the opportunity to participate in all scheduled rotation raids and loot distribution? I know VGE, BI and Static have their own rules about that so what are the Publics rules on those?
If Public rotation raids are open to everyone and Prrekoorb, Allura and Raiderman join one before the ranks are full, then a Public player shows up later what are the rules about that?

Changes without clarifying the underlying rules wont resolve the rotation issues.
Make a concise proposition that addresses all the points of concern, i believe reasonable people play this game and you will find allies if what you say is well thought out.

If you think making these events triggered will remove all rotation issues i'll support it even though i fear they will bring more serious problems for the player base.

Fly safe and Have fun
Efialtis

 

Well said Efi!!! I wrote up a response that was alot more grumpy so I am very glad you said what i wanted to but with a nice tone LOL. 

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PC ALERT.

 

Wow panda man really? Is someone disagreeing with you abuse?

Rewrote this 3 times to keep it civil. Its hard sometimes just really hard.

Edited by Canman

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Efialtis

Lastly i gotta ask. What are the rules of public rotation raids regarding who can participate and loot distribution in addition to having toons in multiple 'raid competing' guilds.
Can i have a toon in eg Sirius Cybernetic Corporation, Driver Carries no Cash, The Disciples of Ore and in VGE or Static or BI? Does that give me the opportunity to participate in all scheduled rotation raids and loot distribution? I know VGE, BI and Static have their own rules about that so what are the Publics rules on those?
If Public rotation raids are open to everyone and Prrekoorb, Allura and Raiderman join one before the ranks are full, then a Public player shows up later what are the rules about that?

 

 

"Public Group" covers all those players that are "Not a member of VGE/BI/Static"    I dont think anyone without GM privileges and some time on their hands, could verify every player in "Public" doesnt have a toon in one or more of the other 3 guild.  We dont expect any of the 3 guilds to pull such a stunt, and if it was to be found out someone did such a thing the matter would be 'passed on to the leader of that guild. At least that is how Id hope it would be handled.

If one of the "Other 3" guilds was to join, then a new "Public" player showed up, well then the Looter starts a group and we go from there.

In "Public" raids as far as loot distribution goes, If you shoot you loot, if you loot you join in the lotto, if you sit and heal/buff/bring Syber coffee mid raid you join in the lotto, no matter who you are, where ya came from, what ya did, or how many items ya won in the past raids (ask Bull-AKA CLP Master)

 

 

This is one of the reasons I fail to see why so many people say the entire community cant work together on every raid. In all but 2 or 3 of the raids I have been to since Pub started doing them, there have been NO PROBLEMS AT ALL.  We get on TS, form up AND HAVE A GOOD TIME.

 

WHY IS THAT SO HARD FOR EVERYONE TO DO    ????????

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3 guilds that certainly do not represent 75% of the playerbase get 75% of the rotation , A rotation that only said 3 guilds had a say in, Everyone else gets 25% , You couldn't make this stuff up its infuriating

 

 

 

 

The BIG 3 do make up most of the server pop. Saying otherwise will not change the facts.

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Also, for all those that are not aware, Efi mentioned "Driver Carries No Cash" as being a Guild, this is not really true. All the toons in the 'Guild' are mine. 1 player, therefor I conceder it not to be a guild, just a tag to ID the toon as being me to other players.

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good input guys...im not here to take control of this thread,i just want to make sure it is peaceful...i was only suggesting a poll to see how you guys want to handle the raid rotation..and correct the devs cannot change the spawn timers without resetting the server and everybody goes to lvl 0 again..im sorry if i sounded like i was to "administrative" ,it is not my intention..i will keep monitoring this topic and i hope you all can come to a comprise to how the raid rotation is changed or left as is..thank you for keeping this topic peaceful...

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Gunney i never asked for a definition of Public neither i asked you to police the existence of players with toons in one of BI/Static/VGE and in one of the Public guilds.

Now telling on them to their other guild isn't really a rule is it? Do you accept them knowing their 'raid competing' guild duality or not? Its as simple as that.

I have personally removed from VGE players that had toon(s) in a 2nd guild and i have seen players pull all of their toons into VGE after we informed/reminded them of our rule about that.

That doesn't mean we are a 'The core is father, The core is mother' (hope someone gets the scifi reference ;) ) mentality guild but rather we try to safeguard against ethically grey areas that might arise from such practices.

 

Also you haven't really clarified if VGE/Static/BI players are allowed into Public rotation raids or not. From where i stand leaving the issue 'in the balance' paints a very opportunistic picture, at least to me because either allowing or disallowing them to participate comes with its own set of problems right?

 

Finally thank you for clarifying the loot distribution for me.

 

@cimbad

"and correct the devs cannot change the spawn timers without resetting the server and everybody goes to lvl 0 again"

 

Do you really mean that only a player wipe can change the spawn timers? A Dev said that to you?

Edited by Efialtis

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Right.

 

HolyFacilitator here with a Round-Up on progress so far!

 

Point No. 1: The Existing Rotation Is Still In Effect

 

The current Raid Rotation is still in effect. No changes to any agreement(s) have been formally proposed (or even drafted, come to that…), much less voted on, agreed upon, or implemented.

 

This thread is purely to discuss, negotiate and/or develop ideas about any potential revision to the current Raid Rotation.

 

Point No. 2: Triggered Raids

 

I think we would probably all agree that having all Raids triggered rather than timed would be an ideal solution… However:

 

Changing the four raids in the Rotation to triggered Raids would require a substantial amount of development work. If not for whatever would need to be done to convert them from timed to triggered, then for whatever mission chain/device build would be used to create the trigger.

 

I would imagine that from a Development Director’s perspective, allocating time and expertise to changing these four raids from timed to triggered would not be a high priority; since the only real driver for doing that (from a Dev perspective) would be to try and mitigate the tensions that occasionally arise between a small number of players in a small Game population.

 

I would far rather the Development Team spent their (freely given) time developing new content and addressing any bugs that still exist, than devote their limited time and energy doing something solely to address the fair-sharing of existing content.

 

Point No. 3: Player Population

 

If the population actively and regularly playing the Emulator are predominately members of Static, V.G.E. and B.I… That is: if approximately 75% of the human players logging onto the Game in an average week are members of one of those three Guilds…

 

Then there is no need to change anything with the Rotation.

 

It does seem as though the main impetus/catalyst for this thread (going back to Gunney’s original post) is that “The Big Three” aren’t quite the dominant Triumvirate (in terms of player-count) they were when the current Rotation was agreed and implemented.

 

I have no idea about that. But *IF* it is the case, then that does tend to support the idea of reviewing the Rotation. If it is not the case, and somewhere in the region of 75% of the active players belong to one of those 3 Guilds, then there is no reason to change the Rotation.

 

Point No. 4: End-Game Content

 

This is a resurrection of a nearly 14-year old MMORPG. Is it appropriate or useful to compare it to contemporary MMORPG’s?

 

Using my best “Finger-in-the-Air” estimation, I’d say that the bulk (c. 90%) of the Game Content is not what we’d call “End-Game” Content. There’s really rich and substantial content for players to experience as they work their way up to OL150, which is easy to overlook if one is hell-bent on maxing out characters a.s.a.p.

 

Hungering to become the meanest, l33test, most dangerous character in the Game is not particularly satisfying in any MMORPG; but in a Game that is a decade-and-a-half old, that is lovingly maintained and developed by volunteers, that sort of ambition is a spectacular way to miss the point of the Emulator.

 

Point No. 5: Multi-Boxing…

 

…Is permitted by the Development Team.

 

Some players Multi-Box, others don’t.

 

How Multi-Boxing/Multi-Clienting should be handled when it comes to multi-player grouping, is for those players to decide.

 

I multi-(client) *ALL* the time… But I’ve always been too embarrassed to turn up at a multi-player event with my group and a half of simultaneously logged toons. I do the triggered Ten-Gu Raids with my multiple toons, but I’ve never felt comfortable eyeing a timed Raid through six or nine Holy-toons’ cockpit windows.

 

If I accept/ed an invitation to join a multi-player Raid, I’d turn up with a single toon, and only suggest logging additional ones if the Raid Party was having trouble reaching a quorum.

 

And pretty difficult to hide the multi-box (/client) nature of my toons, since they all have the “Holy” prefix… It’d be tough to fool anyone with that…

 

(Incidentally: “The Disciples of One” is just the Guild I set-up for all my characters. I’m the only player in it Efi!)

 

(Final!) Point No. 6: Discussion, Negotiation, Agreement.

 

As a Player-Base, the number of Real Live Actual Human Beings in the Emulator would struggle to have qualified as a medium-sized Guild on any of the Live servers, Back in the Day.

 

Static, B.I., V.G.E., Epic Gamers, even The Disciples of One and Driver Carries No Cash… Are really just factions of the same Emulator Guild.

 

As I mentioned in a previous post, I’ve never, ever been on the receiving end of any discrimination in the Emulator because I don’t belong to one of the other Guilds. I regularly receive help from members of all the aforementioned… And that’s one of the aspects of the Emulator I most enjoy and appreciate.

 

We draw these invisible demarcation lines between groups of players because… Well… I guess because that is what we are used to in Real Life…

 

…But I’m not entirely sure what purpose such lines of division and separation serve in the reality of this EnB Emulator..?

 

It seems that this topic never fully resolves itself, because of the lines of demarcation between “The Guilds”. And the sense that “The Big Three” (which now seems more of a pejorative than an accolade…) sit atop a status quo that occasionally appears to be unfair to those who have chosen not to sit within the lines drawn by those three guilds (sometime ago…).

 

In the words of Uncle Ben (not the rice guy…): “With great power comes great responsibility.”

 

The three guilds that hold permanent spots in the Rotation have an advantage over Emulator players that choose not to be in one of those three guilds. The fair price for that advantage must be an agreement to periodically review the entitlement to that advantage.

 

If it really is the case that 75% (or thereabouts) of the players in the Game are members of one of those three guilds, then that is what the review will show, and the matter can be put to rest for another period of time. Any reluctance or resistance on the part of the three permanent members of the United Nations Security Council… (Sorry..!) the Rotation to allow such a review, is only going to heighten suspicions from the rest of the General Assembly that Global Dynamics have changed somewhat since the end of the last war…

 

(Apologies: I’ll try and stay focussed..!)

 

With such an obviously contentious and emotive issue as permanent allocation of seats in the Raid Rotation, it is incumbent on those who hold positions of advantage in that Rotation to allow honest and constructive periodic reviews of the Rotation; and be open to Change, *IF* Change is warranted.

 

If no change is warranted, because the server population dynamics have not changed (much, or at all), then there is no need to resist or dismiss the idea of a periodic review.

 

And if change *IS* warranted, because the server population and active Guild Member participation *HAS* changed, then resisting or dismissing the idea of a review, and/or any objection to modification, is going to produce precisely the sort of negative sentiment the Raid Rotation Agreement exists to avoid.

 

I for one do not think that any change to the Raid Rotation should be made unless there is a generally positive consensus that it needs changing, and on what it should be changed to.

 

But I do think it very important to periodically measure what that consensus is.

 

And I think that is just what we are doing in this thread.

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I've seen people made to feel like a criminal in the past for taking a raid that wasnt theirs according to the rotation, Verbally assaulted accross public channels.

 

This is not right , The rotation was set up by 3 guilds originally no one else agreed to it, It isnt enforced, You simply can not attack someone verbally for using the games content as they chose.

 

Its wrong and uncalled for.

 

This is why people get irritated no one owns the raids and some are acting like they do and the rotation is law and it simply isn't.

In essence you are right. It is only a gentlemens agreement to keep things peacefull. Since pretty much everyone agrees on the terms set by said agreement, people are equally irritated if someone doesnt follow. The senior players might give you an idea on how it was without rotation and why there is a strong sense to stick to some sort of placement to create order when it comes to who raids what. If you have been getting bad words thrown in your direction, its a sad thing and unworthy of this community. As you can see by what people wrote so far, its difficult to find a modus that is fair to everyone. So far you have been slightly off topic to be honnest. I hope this post adresses your input adequatly.

 

To Efi. 

Its hard to argue with a well thought and well writen post. I agree. the modification to the raidrotation shouldnt be changed in the sense Holyman suggested. That suggestion doesnt reflect the playernumbers and activity. While I also agree that clarification on how every slotholder in the rotation handles adding "out-of-guild" players, I think that is a step to be taken once we find a new common ground on the underlaying issue.

From my point of view that would be doing raids with boxed toons or not doing them at all while a bunch of good people are just sitting around and looking for something fun to do. And I think all Guild commenly refered to as Big Three have been guilty of that.

 

Everyone here can make bold claims about thier activity and whatnot. As an example, I am not entirly certain that the Big Three make up more then half the server population. Its hard to tell actually with Alts and multiboxing.

 

For now to propell this discussion forward in a manner that serves the issue, I would suggest we ask Cimbad to take a couple things to the DEVs on our behalf.

 

1. Inquire if we can get some preannounced PRS raids for players in europe and the west coast.

2. If the staff is able and would agree on making the schedueled raids triggerable. If costs for the triggers are fairly high, there is even a chance to jumpstart the creditbased economy in the game again.

3. Inquire if the Staff is willing to give out infos regarding the raidattendance and frequency of the participants of the raidrotation. I see it as vital to gauge the "fairness" of the current system in place.

I might be totally of track here but right now I assume there are shocking gaps across the participents in the rotation.

 

On another note: BI just switched forums and its not fully implemented right now. When I get ahold of Tef, Ill ask him to hand me our set of rules regarding our own raids and those when we join the public.

Maybe the other guilds can post thier rulesets at some point so we can clear up that part and see if it creates additional issues.

 

Cheers Hestha

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Yes Efi, I do know of this SyFi Show Babylon 5. It is the PSI Corps pledge (Spoken by Bester). One of the best SyFi ever made.

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Have been thinking about:

 

Assuming the existing four-weekly rotation remains in place, what is the on-going qualification/requirement for the three Guilds occupying 3 of the 4 slots to maintain their positions in the rotation?

 

Purely hypothetically...

 

What if the number of active Static (to pick one of the current incumbents at random) members declined significantly, whilst at the same time, the number of active Epic Gamers or Sirius Cybernetics Corporation players increased?

 

What mechanism is in place to review which Guilds continue to qualify for a permanent seat in the Rotation?

 

Does the existing agreement imply or mandate a tenured position, that once achieved, can never be lost?

 

Occupying a permanent seat in the Rotation is a significant advantage to the members of the Guild that holds that seat. A virtuous circle could be the result, in that new (and existing) players might be inclined/persuaded to join a Guild that holds a seat in the Rotation, in contrast to one that doesn't.

 

So:

 

What qualifies a Guild to occupy one of the three seats in the Rotation?

 

And how/when is that qualification monitored and/or reviewed?

 

The lack of cohesion and organisation in "The Public" may make it seem like increasing their opportunity to Raid is a waste of bytes, which comes at the expense of the three organised and experienced guilds currently holding seats in the Rotation. And that could well be the case...

 

But what would another Guild have to do to qualify for a seat in the Rotation?

 

And would they have to displace an existing seat-holding Guild? Or could the Rotation be expanded to account for additional Guilds?

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Could it be that more than 3 guilds are added to a guild rotation within raid rotation.  For the first quarter of the year, the current guilds in rotation keep their slots and 2nd quarter of the year, they are replaced with 3 guilds that have their own rotation and the original 3 guilds move to the Public rotation....or maybe even monthly, one full raid cycle?  This could ease the current 3 guilds into understanding that the public option would include other players and foster new friendships for them?

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ok,may i suggest that you guys should all get together and set some rules of a raid rotation and ethics (i.e multi-boxing,who`s allowed,loot drops,etc..) in some form of a topic post and i will pin and lock that post so there is some form of ground rules to follow before this thread gets out of hand....efialtis:yes i was told in a meeting that to adjust any spawn timers would require re-coding and a server reboot to implement the new code and that would reset everyone to lvl 0.this came from KYP himself.if you would like to follow up on that reply you can message kyp in the fourms,he could give you a more precise answer than what i have written here....hargath:only a GM can set up the PRS and that would be only on that GM schedule...as far as the dev`s perspective on the raid rotation,it is a public matter not the staff`s and they will not get involved...please guy`s try to find a compromise and not make this discussion a "shouting match"..you all have been doing good so far as to keeping the topic ideas/suggestions flowing in a positive way...        

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Apropos of your post Cimbad: I'm guessing this thread is moving (in a generally positive direction) towards what will probably be a multiple-choice poll.

 

I think this thread is about defining what those poll-choices will be; and what duration of polling would produce a result that everyone feels is valid.

 

As far as the choices go, well, we already have our minimal and maximal choices:

 

1) Keep everything exactly as it is... Forever!

 

99) Do away with the Raid Rotation altogether... Forever!

 

Choice (2) should probably be: "Keep everything as it is, but review again in another [3, 6 or 12] months".

 

Meaning that Choice (98) would then have to be: "Run without any kind of Raid Rotation for [3, 6 or 12] months and see what happens."

 

Just a question then of working out what (if any) additional choices should go in between.

 

(And at the point of agreeing those choices: correctly number them - (98) and (99) are just placeholder/editorial priority numbers).

 

Possible additional choices then:

 

..) Maintain the 4-weekly 3 Guild: 1 Public (4W3G1P  ;) ) Rotation; but allow other Guilds to compete/qualify for the Guild Seats

 

..) Expand the time-cycle of the Rotation (e.g. to 6- or 8-weeks) to allow additional Guilds to sit in the Rota and make more Public slots available.

 

..) Use a new form of Raid Rotation Cycle that addresses Time-Zone issues

 

..) Hold a competition at the beginning of each Raid Cycle where Guilds have to compete for the slots.

 

That sort of thing.

 

No rush, of course. It is Christmas after all.

 

Peace and Goodwill, and all that.

 

:)

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IMHO. a poll would be to darn inaccurate. The number of players who read the forums is what, 20% (wild guess)

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A poll wouldn't necessarily be binding or final.

 

It's more a way of aggregating and refining discussions up to that point.

 

That said... It is difficult to know what other mechanism might be more valid or purposeful..?

 

Problem with polling/voting/surveying is that stakeholders have a vested interest in the outcome, and so will generally refute or reject any mechanism that might not produce the result they most favour.

 

The whole issue of the Raid Rotation is a delicate one, because it is primarily an attempt to reconcile "ownership" of a facility/function that doesn't readily lend itself to ownership.

 

Those who currently have part-"ownership" are going to be as reluctant to surrender all or some of that "ownership" as those without any current "ownership" will be eager to gain it.

 

And apart from being the object of the Community's general disapproval, there is no viable form of sanction that can be applied to anyone who chooses not to respect the terms of an agreement they may not have supported, voted for, or been party to drafting.

 

It's delicate stuff this!

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