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When is a public raid not a public raid?

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Saturday 21st the troller was killed again without the public being made aware that a raid was even going on. What is the point of having public raids when only a few are invited. This has to stop and the public needs at least an hour notice. Maybe Pakrat can announce it as part of the news? Just an idea.

Edited by Canman
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was that before or after the change over?  Public is now on a "Down" week for raids...

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Before downtime, Daath. Static moved to Troller at 12 EST. The changeovers are at 12 pm EST on Saturdays UNLESS there is a server restart, in which case the changeover takes places on server restart.

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It looks like the public raid spot is not going to the public as we hoped it would.

 

I think this should be looked at again.

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It looks like the public raid spot is not going to the public as we hoped it would.

 

I think this should be looked at again.

I think there are some issues... but I think over time, with some tracking of what raids get done and when it will sort... 90% of the people doing these are just happy to be raiding at all, so it hard to look a gift horse in the mouth...

 

No matter what we do there will always be some issues with who did the raid and who was notified, I don't think it is possible to remove that factor entirely, but on the "Public" weeks we've seen some good turn out for some, and as it builds momentum it will only get stronger over time.

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it might not just be "going to public raids" uni. but if the raiding guilds are helping out, then those people need to follow the rules of their own guilds, and not roll on loot. if this is being broken, then there will always be a problem.

of course, i was not able to do any of the controller raids this week due to the times they were hosted, so im not saying this is definitely happening. im just saying its a possibility.

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I want to keep the public thing going and work out the issues that we have been experiencing.  I Lead a Controller Raid and advertised well in advance of the raid.  I actually caught the trigger up at 5 am but held off until the noon time as advertised.  I will try to keep the public channels up to date on expected spawn times.  Maybe we can make a new thread and post the times that the last raid was completed along with an expected respawn time.

 

There is a delicate balance between the need to take the raids down so we are not wasting triggers and taking them down too quickly.  I think another solution could be that the trigger will be taken down at the same time on designated days (i.e. Monday morning, Wednesday noon and Friday Night).  There really is no way to enforce this plan but it would alleviate many of these new issues.  

Edited by Goodhumorboy

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Your second idea would work... we may lose a trigger at the early hours of Saturday, but that is small compared...  

 

The only problem I see is there is no way to stop someone from taking it down.. and there are people who will do it just cause they can get away with it.. so someone would have to babysit that trigger

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So, it seems to me, from the logic of some, that if I owned a restaurant and decided to feed a few needy people on Tuesdays..... That my restaurant would go from being offered to the public, to being OWNED by the public.  And that I might get sued for not letting enough people know that there would be free food, early enough for more than I could afford to show up. 
If someone "Gives" you something, and you don't think it's good enough for you, or you don't like the way it's offered.. Don't Accept it.  But a "Gift" is freely offered, and should be freely accepted.  If you know it's happening Tuesday, and you really want to be part of it, Maybe you could make your ammo on Monday Night and park the toon you want to bring by the gate.  I figure you would need 2-3 of those ten minutes then.  The entire Raid system is imperfect.... It's what we got.

  Nuff fer now,

                 Sevin

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I have been on a few public raids.

And seeing how long we got to wait for people to come when asking in new player , general and in market channel is insane.

Last raid i was in Gobb we had to ask some people from yes the 3 big guilds to come help cause noone responded on the public.

So iff people would respond it would be easier.

Keep these raids public.

But iff need be, ask others to come help.

Or we will lose these "public raids".

When people offer a trigger to start a gate raid for free,

don't complain.

It is not easy to get the pieces together to make a trigger.

Unless u wanna tank your RD faction to get a feather(gate raid or fishbowl)

 

So next time don't complain when someone offers a trigger to make a public raid.

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GHB theres already a thread for spawn times and respawn times in the raid knowledge zone which you can use to post the times these pub raids occur...

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the last public raid i have seen was at Troller raid. and yea im from BI and i had my Healer there because they needed one. but as Epic gamers in not one of the big 3 and if they fill up almost a full raid wit just Epic gamers its still an public raid. And we from BI have agreed with magoo if we help them out we can not roll on any items and the times i was there to help out i have never seen that a BI person gets loot. I people from VGE and Static wont belive that just sent out one person of your guild and join the raid so you can control it.

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in those raids i have been to u are Right Jamoos,

no person from BI has taken any loot at all.

Myself from Damage inc can vouch for that.

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the last public raid i have seen was at Troller raid. and yea im from BI and i had my Healer there because they needed one. but as Epic gamers in not one of the big 3 and if they fill up almost a full raid wit just Epic gamers its still an public raid. And we from BI have agreed with magoo if we help them out we can not roll on any items and the times i was there to help out i have never seen that a BI person gets loot. I people from VGE and Static wont belive that just sent out one person of your guild and join the raid so you can control it

 

 

 

 

Nice try. I was watching this raid and you left out a few details. First it was not just your JS (mayond) there but also your PW. Second the people there was so nervous too get the raid started they killed the activator before the second group arrived which was made mostly of BI members. 

 

So by this standard if EG sends around 4 members (duel boxing thats around 8 toons)  to a raid and BI fills in enough to finish out 2 or more groups thats considered PUBLIC? LOL Really? How many of those EG members there were actually BI alts?

 

Third there was NO effort to enlist members from other guilds, NONE! By your own words no member of VGE or Static takes part in the raid itself and I wonder why? So other guilds besides the big3 can have a spot in the raid. This is not a raid opportunity for BI to gain a second raid week in the rotation. Its for members of smaller guilds and non-guilded people to get  a chance to see the end game content and even a shot at some rare loot. 

 

I will not mention his name but 1 member of EG did try to find out what happened and gained some respect for doing so. As to BI not rolling on loot during this single raid I really have no idea if they did or not. I have screenshot of past raids to which BI members did roll and even won items and they clearly knew it was against the agreement. Some just feel the rules do not apply to them.

 

I challenge whoever takes the mantle up on leading these PUBLIC raids to do the right thing. Make sure it is well announced that you are forming one and OPEN invite to anyone not in the big 3. I realize there will be times when public interest will not just be enough to do the raid so I purpose this. Postpone the raid for a couple of hours and keep advertising it. If all else fails ask ALL 3 to send help. If the public does not show enough interest then its on them not the raid leader but they must given the chance.  

Edited by Canman
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To my way of thinking, it does not matter if Jamoos helps with these public raids, he's an awesome raid leader and knows these raids very well.  He has been valuable to EG in that he has helped them learn the ropes and get better prepared for them.  Same goes for any member of VGE, Static or BI that shows up to help us out. 

 

The only point I have issue with is that the general public needs to be "invited"  many times this means maybe one or two people will show up, but even if no public players show up at all, the attempt should be made to include them.  At least 30 minutes warning would be advised to allow said public players to dock, build appropriate ammo and gather raid items needed and then get to the location of the raid. 

 

EG is not one of the big 3, though soon they will rival VGE in membership.  The big 3 saw to it that EG was not included in the rotation by spending months "discussing" the matter and not coming to a resolution, instead the "public" rotation was opened up.  This means that EG will ALWAYS constitute a large part of these raids.  They have a large guild and many members that need items from these raids.  EG has organized and included many public people in the past, though we are working to solidify communication to the public and make it more inclusive in events where a majority of the participants are EG people.  It is my hope that EG is sincere in their pledge to include the public and that they will demonstrate this rather than subversively attempting to activate and complete these raids with no mention of it to the public. 

 

The constant "surveillance" of these raids by Static is fine, but the constant determination to find fault in how they are run and by whom is just compounding this problem.  There are members of BI, EG and the public that are resentful of this "Babysitting" that Static is doing.  We love that Static has helped and is always willing to help with the raids when we've got a problem getting people together and that Static has the Public's interests at heart, but it makes people that Statics real purpose is to find fault in what others are doing and throw criticism around like a weapon.  As a result members of the public and Epic are reluctant to even mention these raid triggers for fear of attracting someone from static to "Watch".  If you go to the raid location and sit there cloaked you contribute to the lag and add a sense of resentment toward your guild. 

 

We've gone one cycle with the "Public" rotation and are in our "Down" week at this point.  I suspect, with some patience and transparency we can expect each rotation to get a little better.  I also expect to have raids that don't happen in a perfect situation, it is par for the course given the circumstances and is to be expected to some extent. 

 

I ask for patience and continued support from the Big 3 and for EG to remember that they have pledged to support all of the non-guild and small guild players in this endeavor. 

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Trust is earned not just given away. For anyone to say otherwise is being naive. Do you really think Static is the only guild watching these raids? Really? We have made a point to make sure the public is aware of whats going on with the raids. If you want to call that babysitting say what you will. Did anyone really think people would just open a pug raid spot and not watch? LOL BTW 1 or 2 cloaked toons is NOT going to cause anymore lag then the raid will anyways again LOL to that.

 

Daath you also got a couple of things wrong and I hope its cause your not aware of it. First off Static was more then willing to get EG in the rotation but due to alts being in their guild and backstabbing from people so EG needs to look elsewhere for the reason they didnt get a spot. I would LOVE to see EG make up all of the raid as long as its done fair. I got some news for you there are people in EG that agree with me on this.

 

Simple truth is that NO one from the big 3 should be at these public raids unless there is no other choice.

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Nice try. I was watching this raid and you left out a few details. First it was not just your JS (mayond) there but also your PW. Second the people there was so nervous too get the raid started they killed the activator before the second group arrived which was made mostly of BI members. 

--------------------------------------------

Then i would like to know how many BI people you have seen and what there names are. i have a screen shot from the first group and those are the only BI "tags" at the raid.( wil post the screenshot at the end)

 

So by this standard if EG sends around 4 members (duel boxing thats around 8 toons)  to a raid and BI fills in enough to finish out 2 or more groups thats considered PUBLIC? LOL Really? How many of those EG members there were actually BI alts?

-----------------------------------------------

if i got 4 main playing toons in 4 guilds that i help out in what guild im i then?

 

Third there was NO effort to enlist members from other guilds, NONE! By your own words no member of VGE or Static takes part in the raid itself and I wonder why? So other guilds besides the big3 can have a spot in the raid. This is not a raid opportunity for BI to gain a second raid week in the rotation. Its for members of smaller guilds and non-guilded people to get  a chance to see the end game content and even a shot at some rare loot. 

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as you sad you where there. Public had only some time left before the switch of the rotation you know that. if we waited 2 more hours to wait for people that come online it was no longer a Public raid but a static raid.

 

I will not mention his name but 1 member of EG did try to find out what happened and gained some respect for doing so. As to BI not rolling on loot during this single raid I really have no idea if they did or not. I have screenshot of past raids to which BI members did roll and even won items and they clearly knew it was against the agreement. Some just feel the rules do not apply to them.

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if you got a screen shot post it so we at BI can handle that because its a public raid so its Public loot.

 

I challenge whoever takes the mantle up on leading these PUBLIC raids to do the right thing. Make sure it is well announced that you are forming one and OPEN invite to anyone not in the big 3. I realize there will be times when public interest will not just be enough to do the raid so I purpose this. Postpone the raid for a couple of hours and keep advertising it. If all else fails ask ALL 3 to send help. If the public does not show enough interest then its on them not the raid leader but they must given the chance.  

 

 

Trust is earned not just given away. For anyone to say otherwise is being naive. Do you really think Static is the only guild watching these raids? Really? We have made a point to make sure the public is aware of whats going on with the raids. If you want to call that babysitting say what you will. Did anyone really think people would just open a pug raid spot and not watch? LOL BTW 1 or 2 cloaked toons is NOT going to cause anymore lag then the raid will anyways again LOL to that.

 

Daath you also got a couple of things wrong and I hope its cause your not aware of it. First off Static was more then willing to get EG in the rotation but due to alts being in their guild and backstabbing from people so EG needs to look elsewhere for the reason they didnt get a spot. I would LOVE to see EG make up all of the raid as long as its done fair. I got some news for you there are people in EG that agree with me on this.

-------------------------------------------------------

Quote: "First off Static was more then willing to get EG in the rotation" if you wanted EG in the rotation then wy dit they need to proof for static that they can do the raids over and over again. and every time EG/BI/VGE wanted to talk there was no one from static to talk?

 

Simple truth is that NO one from the big 3 should be at these public raids unless there is no other choice.

---------------------------------------------------------

if none of the big 3 who have done the raids for months now should help the public. who els is it going to do? you just cant put it on a piece of paper you need to be there and show them what to do. and if they dont want our help they would not ask us. I cant help it that static is not allowed to help on the public raids. but we at BI want to help other people.

 

Ow and BTW here is a pic i made, you can see 2 people from BI there and that is armo( the main tank ) and mine Mayon ( healer ) the only reason my PW was there was for armo to swap a weapon and i only put him on auto fire at the last boss.


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Trust is earned not just given away. For anyone to say otherwise is being naive. Do you really think Static is the only guild watching these raids? Really? We have made a point to make sure the public is aware of whats going on with the raids. If you want to call that babysitting say what you will. Did anyone really think people would just open a pug raid spot and not watch? LOL BTW 1 or 2 cloaked toons is NOT going to cause anymore lag then the raid will anyways again LOL to that.

 

Daath you also got a couple of things wrong and I hope its cause your not aware of it. First off Static was more then willing to get EG in the rotation but due to alts being in their guild and backstabbing from people so EG needs to look elsewhere for the reason they didnt get a spot. I would LOVE to see EG make up all of the raid as long as its done fair. I got some news for you there are people in EG that agree with me on this.

 

Simple truth is that NO one from the big 3 should be at these public raids unless there is no other choice.

Canman.. if we had NO help from ANY big 3 member, then the raids won't happen as often as they should...

 

If we have people from the other guilds "watching" then why is Static the only one raising issues?

 

I am just weary of everyone trying to find fault in what everyone else does.... The public rotation is the public's affair.. you don't seem to think we are trying to manage it so you keep trying to meddle in it... We recruit people from wherever we can and try to enforce the Big3 no-loot rule... If Big3 members are in violation of that, it is up to the Big 3 to deal with it...

 

As a completely public member, I can say this... we are working very hard to make this as open to as many people as possible... Static needs to attend to their own raids and decide if they are willing to "help" public as needed or not... That is your place in this now... Not overseer of raids... if we have someone not doing what is considered right by our measure, we'll address it with their guild leaders or them directly... It is not Static, VGE or BI's job to police this... It is OUR job...

 

We appreciate the input and guidance, but every time you bring up these issues it causes more problems then you are solving, so please consider that the next time you start posting to this thread, it has caused innumerable headaches and problems that are not seen here and I have to ask that it stops now.... Please bring them to  myself, the leadership of EG or any others that present themselves as leadership of these raids directly.... Rant posts on this forum have only served to turn public people away from the raids because of the overwhelming drama that has ensued because of these posts and the in-game rants and fighting.... please stop...

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VGE is more than willing to help in public raids, if needed, just ask. (if we aren't too busy mining :P )

 

We are not, and will not, police the public raids in any way shape or form. How the public raids are handled is completely up to the people running them. :)

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