Jump to content
Not7News

When is a public raid not a public raid?

Recommended Posts

Simple.

 

When a guild and buddies spend two hours getting ready to do the raid and then says in new players 'raid starting in 10 minutes'.

 

 

 

 

 

 

  • Upvote 1
  • Downvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

With public raids I guess the raid begins whenever enough player are ready after the trigger is up. It may not be fair for stragglers, but unless someone is willing to take responsibility for planning and keeping the public informed about when to expect public raiding to be done, we may have to live with that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

With public raids I guess the raid begins whenever enough player are ready after the trigger is up. It may not be fair for stragglers, but unless someone is willing to take responsibility for planning and keeping the public informed about when to expect public raiding to be done, we may have to live with that.

The point is that if you are forming for a raid with the trigger up or expected to be up it is appropriate to announce that fact publicly early in the process and not to form up ready to go and then give everyone else 10 minutes to get there or be excluded.

  • Upvote 1
  • Downvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

not7news are u in a guild?

i'll ask again      not7news.....are u in a guild?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

i'll ask again      not7news.....are u in a guild?

No

 

and even if I were, my guildlessness does not change the actions of a few to exclude others.

  • Upvote 1
  • Downvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm not sure i understand the complaint here. as long as whs are offered, 10 mins ought to be plenty of time to build ammo and make your way just about anywhere. As said earlier, someone has to take responsibility for organising and it'll be at their convenience and their friends not the rest of the server. I'm sure the 10 mins would have been extended a little if you had contacted whoever was orgainising and asked for a little more time. I'd like to have taken part myslef but it looks like i was offline when it happened.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm not sure i understand the complaint here. as long as whs are offered, 10 mins ought to be plenty of time to build ammo and make your way just about anywhere. As said earlier, someone has to take responsibility for organising and it'll be at their convenience and their friends not the rest of the server. I'm sure the 10 mins would have been extended a little if you had contacted whoever was orgainising and asked for a little more time. I'd like to have taken part myslef but it looks like i was offline when it happened.

This is probably accurate.  Some seem to think it is all in public affair, others it seems to be an afterthought to bring in the general public.  I've decided I won't be organizing them so I hope someone is willing to take up the task.  The drama of it all is more than I can take so I don't see myself "organizing" any more of these. Always willing to help out if I am on, but you can't pay me to deal with it, so on my free (read fun) time this isn't going to be on my list of things to do.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm not sure i understand the complaint here. as long as whs are offered, 10 mins ought to be plenty of time to build ammo and make your way just about anywhere. As said earlier, someone has to take responsibility for organising and it'll be at their convenience and their friends not the rest of the server. I'm sure the 10 mins would have been extended a little if you had contacted whoever was orgainising and asked for a little more time. I'd like to have taken part myslef but it looks like i was offline when it happened.

Ten minutes clearly is not enough as there was only one person able to get there in 10 minutes.

 

It had taken the group of people that did the raid well over an hour to get themselves sorted and in position.

 

If all is above board why was the call not put out in public when this group started to form for the raid instead of leaving it to the last 10 minutes?

 

Having said all that it is clear that the groups were filled with selected pilots bringing into question would the general public have been told no we don't need 'X type of ship' as we already have them on the field.

  • Upvote 1
  • Downvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ten minutes clearly is not enough as there was only one person able to get there in 10 minutes.

 

It had taken the group of people that did the raid well over an hour to get themselves sorted and in position.

 

If all is above board why was the call not put out in public when this group started to form for the raid instead of leaving it to the last 10 minutes?

 

Having said all that it is clear that the groups were filled with selected pilots bringing into question would the general public have been told no we don't need 'X type of ship' as we already have them on the field.

Quite right! Even in an organized guild like the one I belong to 10 minutes is no-where near enough time for everyone to get their shit together! And if it were.... why would the offending guild in this case need to give themselves plenty of time to get organized as inferred by the OP? :huh:

 

By the way... Was it Static again?

  • Upvote 2
  • Downvote 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think the OP stated it was a public raid, hence it should NOT have been any of the big 3, yes?

 

Why would you even point a finger at Static for a public raiding issue?

  • Upvote 2
  • Downvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is probably accurate.  Some seem to think it is all in public affair, others it seems to be an afterthought to bring in the general public.  I've decided I won't be organizing them so I hope someone is willing to take up the task.  The drama of it all is more than I can take so I don't see myself "organizing" any more of these. Always willing to help out if I am on, but you can't pay me to deal with it, so on my free (read fun) time this isn't going to be on my list of things to do.

this is the frustration i had with you a few weeks ago.  its so much easier getting people you know to get together and knock out raids as apposed to dealing with people ive never seen before. its a ton of work, most of it thankless.

  • Upvote 1
  • Downvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Static had nothing to do with the issue that is being thrown about here...

 

As for organizing these raids being a thankless job, I don't think that is the issue I have with them... My issue is dealing with the apparent need of some people to find fault in anything that is done, be it for their benefit or not.

  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Another Controller raid was done yesterday.

 

Completed by Epic and BI alts.

 

Surely doing the raid at the earliest opportunity without inclusion of a reasonable quantity of genuine public / unguilded players is not what was intended.

 

If Magoo is such a great leader why has he not made it clear to his members that public raid means public and not a secondary raid that BI alts share with Epic?

 

What do Static and VGE think to Bi having extra raid opportunities at their and the publics expense?

  • Upvote 2
  • Downvote 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Another Controller raid was done yesterday.

 

Completed by Epic and BI alts.

 

Surely doing the raid at the earliest opportunity without inclusion of a reasonable quantity of genuine public / unguilded players is not what was intended.

 

If Magoo is such a great leader why has he not made it clear to his members that public raid means public and not a secondary raid that BI alts share with Epic?

 

What do Static and VGE think to Bi having extra raid opportunities at their and the publics expense?

They attempted several times to reach out to public players from what I understand... There is no reason to delay the execution of the raid just because they can't get the population to jump on the opportunity for whatever reason. BI assisted, no different than Static assisting.  Though I didn't witness the looting process it seems that a Public, non EG/BI players were present, but not many... They also won items in the lotto for loot.  Because they executed the raid there is another due before the cycle moves to the "down" week for Public.

 

EG is essentially a Public entity and after several discussions with their members today they understand the necessity to bring as many public people as possible from the "Public" but they are an unpredictable sort, so I cannot fault the raid process today.

 

As we move forward I will also be encouraging more people to participate and find ways to enable more non-guild players to prepare.  Over the non-raid week I will try to prepare more people for the RD Base on the onset of the next cycle and see if we can get better turn out.  But I recognize there are a number of people in EG that are eager to raid as well, and I cannot fault them for organizing the raids, as long as they try in earnest to include others.

  • Upvote 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

They attempted several times to reach out to public players from what I understand... There is no reason to delay the execution of the raid just because they can't get the population to jump on the opportunity for whatever reason. BI assisted, no different than Static assisting.  Though I didn't witness the looting process it seems that a Public, non EG/BI players were present, but not many... They also won items in the lotto for loot.  Because they executed the raid there is another due before the cycle moves to the "down" week for Public.

 

EG is essentially a Public entity and after several discussions with their members today they understand the necessity to bring as many public people as possible from the "Public" but they are an unpredictable sort, so I cannot fault the raid process today.

 

As we move forward I will also be encouraging more people to participate and find ways to enable more non-guild players to prepare.  Over the non-raid week I will try to prepare more people for the RD Base on the onset of the next cycle and see if we can get better turn out.  But I recognize there are a number of people in EG that are eager to raid as well, and I cannot fault them for organizing the raids, as long as they try in earnest to include others.

+1 for this post. Thankyou for taking the time to add balanced input....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I will first say that Game Masters do not get involved in these type of things unless it gets out of hand and causes some issue to the game.

as a unguilded player  playing like the rest of you myself when i have turned my tools off and logged into my play toon i will say that if you get a chance to join a raid that you may otherwise have not been given,Isnt that all that matters.

it takes skilled and knowledgeable people to lead these raids to start with to offer that chance,and most raids require a item to trigger it. that in most cases the  players would most likely not have.

Did you ever stop to think it may have started off as a guild raid then offered to the public maybe for a extra group that may have not even been needed just so someone else could experience it.

Most raid leaders also go over any rules they may have before it begins,along with everyone in the raid rolling on items.

 

Dont look a gift horse in the mouth is what i say, if you arent sponsering or leading the raid you have no input on a open forum about how you think it should be done or defined as a public raid IMOO.

 

and no definition of a public raid will ever be set down by staff unless The Earth and Beyond staff happened to be sponser.

  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In "EA live" I don't remember any of the mess raids seem to be causing here in "Sunrise Live".  It could be I was a Johnny come lately and was guilded from the start but... When Armada sponsored a FB, it was announced on the public channel.  Everyone who participated could and did bid on the loot.  I don't even remember reserved items... although there must have been.

 

My point is... WTF is the big deal with raids? Wouldn't it be ever so much easier if someone wants to start a raid, has the necessary triggers etc should be able to do the raid and invite whomever wants to participate?  

 

This would be way easier to do than the rotation schedule. Can't we all just get along?

 

 

Just saying...

 

P.S.  Is this a troll post? Pretty sure it's not but times they be a changing... Ready for my -dings. 

  • Upvote 1
  • Downvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In "EA live" I don't remember any of the mess raids seem to be causing here in "Sunrise Live".  It could be I was a Johnny come lately and was guilded from the start but... When Armada sponsored a FB, it was announced on the public channel.  Everyone who participated could and did bid on the loot.  I don't even remember reserved items... although there must have been.

 

My point is... WTF is the big deal with raids? Wouldn't it be ever so much easier if someone wants to start a raid, has the necessary triggers etc should be able to do the raid and invite whomever wants to participate?  

 

This would be way easier to do than the rotation schedule. Can't we all just get along?

 

 

Just saying...

 

P.S.  Is this a troll post? Pretty sure it's not but times they be a changing... Ready for my -dings. 

I think if the player base were larger there would be a different dynamic.  As it stood the players in the larger guilds have had some pretty messy events between them surrounding these raids.  The contention was resolved with the rotation.  After the rotation was established the result was that "Public" or smaller guild players had few, if any, chances to participate in these raids.  One in 10 raids would have someone from the "outside" involved in the execution of the content, if that. 

 

Non-guild/small guild players develop more slowly, have less access to resources and often don't know about these raids. That is changed now.  Many are learning that they can now get involved in them if the timing and situation comes together in such a way that they can participate.  The problem I see now is long-term knowledge of the raid cycle... IF more people knew when they were going to happen and had ample time to prepare I think we'll see more turn out.  But I am very happy that the opportunities are much greater for these folks that are reaching 150, finally, after a year of character development. 

 

As long as this public raid cycle continues to be available I will do what I can to get people involved.  The more people see "Raid X is happening" the more they will look into the possibility of participation.  My hope is that it will encourage fewer people to leave out of boredom because they have been stuck in solo play mode for months.  Now we've all got something to work toward besides just getting an avatar to 150. 

 

About once a day I get a question from someone about what they can do to prepare... What skills are needed, what equipment and which classes are most needed in raids.  Some players have started new characters with the sole intention of raiding with them sometime in the future, not just leveling them for solo play.  This is an essential stage for the player base, it will help us all retain more players and thereby keep the game alive. 

 

No matter what the "drama" is that is created by these raids being performed, if we keep to the current course it can only help us keep everything going.  Encourage more diversity and help people gain access to content that was nearly impossible to get into before. 

 

I thank any and all of the participants from the big 3 guilds that have helped the "Public" and Epic get this in motion.  With luck each month we'll see more and more participation by public players, greater access to this otherwise closed content and a renewed interest as people who have left the EMU check in and newly returned Live players find the EMU.

Edited by Daath

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I will first say that Game Masters do not get involved in these type of things unless it gets out of hand and causes some issue to the game.

as a unguilded player  playing like the rest of you myself when i have turned my tools off and logged into my play toon i will say that if you get a chance to join a raid that you may otherwise have not been given,Isnt that all that matters.

it takes skilled and knowledgeable people to lead these raids to start with to offer that chance,and most raids require a item to trigger it. that in most cases the  players would most likely not have.

Did you ever stop to think it may have started off as a guild raid then offered to the public maybe for a extra group that may have not even been needed just so someone else could experience it.

Most raid leaders also go over any rules they may have before it begins,along with everyone in the raid rolling on items.

 

Dont look a gift horse in the mouth is what i say, if you arent sponsering or leading the raid you have no input on a open forum about how you think it should be done or defined as a public raid IMOO.

 

and no definition of a public raid will ever be set down by staff unless The Earth and Beyond staff happened to be sponser.

As I understand it public raids are to give the public the opportunity to take part in and hopefully win raid dropped items.

 

If the raids are to be run for the benefit of big guild alts at the expense of public players there is no point having the public raid at all.

 

I appreciate that some skills are needed to put the raid together but given time and opportunity the public players will gain and develope these skills.

 

Static have a no roll policy when running a public raid.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I will first say that Game Masters do not get involved in these type of things unless it gets out of hand and causes some issue to the game.

as a unguilded player  playing like the rest of you myself when i have turned my tools off and logged into my play toon i will say that if you get a chance to join a raid that you may otherwise have not been given,Isnt that all that matters.

it takes skilled and knowledgeable people to lead these raids to start with to offer that chance,and most raids require a item to trigger it. that in most cases the  players would most likely not have.

Did you ever stop to think it may have started off as a guild raid then offered to the public maybe for a extra group that may have not even been needed just so someone else could experience it.

Most raid leaders also go over any rules they may have before it begins,along with everyone in the raid rolling on items.

 

Dont look a gift horse in the mouth is what i say, if you arent sponsering or leading the raid you have no input on a open forum about how you think it should be done or defined as a public raid IMOO.

 

and no definition of a public raid will ever be set down by staff unless The Earth and Beyond staff happened to be sponser.

 

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

we had an agreement. it has rules for a reason, so none of the big 3 take advantage of the system and hurt unguildeds / publics.

 

when 75% of the raid is 1 of the big 3 it isnt a public raid, when people in the big 3 get gear from the public raid it isnt a public raid. they did nothing on that raid but hurt the public.

 

 

 

 

the aggressive people who were in static no longer play. when they see and hear stuff like this they chomp at the bit to come back and want to fight. you really need to let this rotation stand and follow the rules so the fighting stops and everyone can have fun. the drama is over you just have to stop the antics! no one wants the current raid situation to devolve into what it used to be regardless of what you think or feel. as a long time EVE player i can assure you that youre wanting to fight will not last. i give it 2 weeks to a month of fighting like there used to be before you give up.

 

we were just starting to finally make headway to have a civil community. dont mess it up for everyone.

Edited by zohawn
  • Upvote 1
  • Downvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ammo, What's That?

I love theses Raid discussions.

Guys get a calculator out.

Work the numbers on this.

How many raids are done in a weeks time for all guild combined ?

How many of the raids have Alts waiting in the wings for a Item no one wants or has already?

How many People are duel boxing during a raid.

 

The odds are better that you will get a Roll or Bid on an Item if you got into 3 open raids every week.

Your saying that's not possible. But it is IF..

 

The greed stops.

The "Our Guild" is better than your guild crap stops.

You would have to improve your Community reputation and be one of the First to get into those guild sponsored raids.

A Guild(s) would/may need to alternate Roll and Bids on drops and spread the proceeds. (Don't tell me it can't be done, it was routine on Pegasus.) You should make it worth their ammo and time.

 

I may not mean much to this EMU but I would give high praise and undying support to ANY GUILD that

routinely ran Open Raids.

And yes I understand that the guild Will and should reserve a certain drop its their raid for Christ sake.

I look forward to seeing the first well organized guild to man up and make it so.

They will be the true supporters of a good game and community.

 

Kudos to the Guilds that have done a couple of Open public raids and I'm NOT being Bias One guild I do

remember being invite to a Open raid, Builders Inc. and I publicly thank you for that .

 

Its too bad that anyone in one of the "Big 3" can't join another guild sponsored raid in fear of reprisal that's sad.

  • Upvote 1
  • Downvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Controller is up in the next 24 hours.  I want as many public people to show up.  The last one was not very good because we only receive a few responses.  I will say that a public guy won the best item that dropped at the raid ( Drone Energy Amplifier).  Keep an eye out for the trigger and put it in General.

Edited by Goodhumorboy

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×