A little courtesy please when mining

[Vitaes]

It is rather rude when you are mining a field and someone else decides that they are going to cherry pick the lv 9 roids from the field you are clearing. I won't mention any name or guild, but I'm sure he saw me mining, as he is a grandmaster like me. I can understand a PS with their crappy scan range not seeing me, but we JE's can see a long, long way. Fluttering from lv 9 roid to another is just plain rude. These are the times I wish for PvP. Go find your own roids fool!

[jrichards]

So you decided to just clear a field, and another player decided to just nab the level 9 ore.....working as designed.  If you don't want other players mining level 9 ore from a field you are mining...mine the level 9 ore first.

 

BTW, you don't need pvp when you can actually compete at mining..so you know...compete. ;)

[Xpo]

Eventhough i can understand the desire to mine out a field just for the sake of mining to relax, i also understand that there are people who look for specific orelevels or types.

The thing is, both can do their mining whenever, where ever. These fields respawn pretty fast and a little less clearing bonus isnt a big issue.

Not to meantion that there are LOTS of fields out there.

 

Aslong as the activity isnt "automated" it shouldnt be a big issue.

 

 

 

 

[dragonrose]

I mentioned this a few months ago.....basically I was told "you do not own the field, so anyone can mine them."

[Jester]

If I am looking for a specific ore then thats my focus - usually for doing missions like Agrippa or for building something specific. I dont usually mine next to someone but I think its fair to be in the same field and to mine only the ores your looking for.

[Pakkrat [N7LA]]

As in my short story Thieves and Treaties, if the field is an Asteroid Clearance job field, I believe the hired pilot should have exclusivity and a responsibility to clear it or Forfeit the job.

We are seeing another case of Competition versus Cooperation. Competition is the harsh, Darwinian approach. It is that the weak or elderly shall be culled in favor of better iterations (evolution) down the line to strengthen the herd, flock, troop, society, etc. Cooperation is the other end of the spectrum. Examples include beehives, ant mounds, the Borg (you will be assimilated) and the hive-mind mentality. That way lies the risk of loss of individuality and free will. Somewhere between these is the pack mentality, i.e. Pack Alpha, Beta, members, and the Omega. Further towards the Competition arm of the spectrum is Pecking Order, e.g. Rooster and flock of Hens that scratch out their daily sustenance.

Which is the correct course? Shall we strengthen the few, the strong, and grow the population from the best? Or shall we grow the entire population via cooperation? In the Earth & Beyond game, pilots are asked this question. They are asked to explore one or more of those above choices to see what the causalities are. Is the game a true Player versus Player environment? No. Can competition still occur? Yes. Can humanity (the pilots in particular) progress under either banner of Competition or Cooperation? Let's find out. Honorable behavior, is an element of human condition and human consciousness. Earth & Beyond asks the individual pilot if he or she can rise above both and Ascend (as is the case with Merjan Kethrada and a few others). Can we share the galaxy? Is it merely in-character that we race to claim the treasures of the Beyond?

One can say, "But, Pakkrat, this is only a game." Really? Is your behavior really just a game? Is how you play the game really just an illusion? Is the person who is mining that asteroid field being territorial by wanting exclusivity to its clearance? Is the intruding pilot portraying his race/class with gusto and in-character? The intruding pilot will ask the first pilot, "Do these 'roids have your name on them, Pakkrat?" If they are marked with the holographic blue swirlies, then they sorta are. That still does not make them immune to claimjumpers and cherry-pickers. Can I stop the intruding pilot? No. But then what causalities are in store for the intruding pilot? The first pilot now knows your name, race/class, guild (if any), and the details of the encounter. In claimjumping, you are writing your own reputation and character into the heart of the first miner. Afterwards, that pilot may choose to never chat, do business, render aid, or other Cooperation to the offending claimjumper. They may go so far as to air the dirty laundry over the channels, releasing names, encounter details, and malinger the Guild that the claimjumper is a member to. This of course will spark retributions onto the whistle-blowing first pilot. Escalations may ensue.

Rather than the above, perhaps the second, intruding pilot could make contact with the first mining pilot. "Say, can I help you with this field in return for the very few Level IX ores I need badly?" is a good way to start. Odds are that the first pilot may not have such a need for that particular ore, being that they are calmly and lazily taking their time with the field. Some miners may already have swept the field for the higher level asteroids and clouds and are just mopping up the last. "Sure, you can have that ore if you can help me sweep up the last of this field then trade the other ores to me." And here's a forgotten, but added bonus: Try grouping. Perhaps the group buffs will be enough to promote more efficiency to the clearance of the field.

Competition, given human consciousness, has causality (cause and & effect and the compensation therein). Cooperation has such as well but less of the negative aspects. It is up to how you, the pilots wish to portray your toons' behaviors. Because this is a game, those actions are really reflective of the player. Is this how you act, player?

From the Psych Department of NET-7 SOL, this is the Pakkrat. Edited March 18, 2013 by Pakkrat

[Phorlaug[IS]]

Phorlaug gets up from Pakkrat's psychiatric couch and write the check for service's rendered.

 

I'm not a miner (yet) but its kind of like nabbing a boss thats in formation killing him

and leaving the minion's and their junk loot. IMO.

 

I have a few suggestions for the DEVs and players (miners).

 

Players.

"Strength in numbers": A mass your guild members mine the fields in record time. "Leave no stone unturned" divide the spoils

 

Sharing:There are still some players that don't mine sharing with/from other guilds form a bond with another player from another guild, just think and remember your not helping just their guild your helping each other. Major corporations do it everyday.

Your reputation with their guild may go farther than you think.

Divide the spoils. WE do it  in combat why not in Mining?

 

Multibox with a cargo hold Cloaking Character, MINE everything in the roid, with the economy as it is now, everything has value.

 

JEs find an asteroid field(s) thats close to a weft and station, WH out and back when your full, less time traveling more time mining.

 

DEVs.

Make asteroid fields junk ores and or Debris etc.., (Trade able) trade goods for faction. (Bogrils). Named: Dred Fanford

 

Have Roid cleaning bonus's.

 

Make Debris and junk quantities refine into rare ores. 500 debris = 1 Aesirium Ore , 600 debris = 1 Arthurian Plastic etc etc...

increase numbers as fitting.

 

Just thinking outloud.

 

4

[Pakkrat [N7LA]]

Phor,

Your Multiboxing suggestions make the assumption that Multiboxing in general is in the majority. Try to remember that the solutions should first involve a single pilot-single vessel player. Next, the "Safety in Numbers" still does not stop the intruding claimjumper from pulling up and cherrypicking the exact ore he wants to make off with. Neither can an entire armada of "Safety in Numbers" halt or even slow the claimjumper.

Not a miner? Then sit down, over there in the corner, until you are mining level IX ores and hulks. Only then will you be qualified to understand the plight of the miner. Earth & Beyond, both original and Emulator were designed for the single pilot-single vessel setup. You Multiboxers broke that and shattered the game entirely. Just my opinion, but look at the effects of your actions. Before I run back into that tangent, let's get back to the issue. You can say, "But, Pakkrat, we were forced to Multibox because of low player population as we fought and struggled to get this Emulator up and running. Respect us." Fie! Stanig has already posted the estimated population of players. I challenge the continuation of that mindset. I don't buy that at all, this day in Live. There are enough of us to play this game single pilot-single vessel style.

Competition is mentioned in the www.net-7.org website description of the game. "Cutthroat commerce" comes to mind. This can cut back upon the cherrypicking claimjumper in that his name can be splattered over the channels, Forum boards, and ostracism can set in as they are put back into the penalty box of being forced to Multibox to get anything done. Meanwhile, the rest of us, having put the repeat offender on /ignore, can return to enjoying the game, get some Content, enjoy the game world and establish meaningful experiences.

Stop breaking the game. Show some mutual respect. Enjoy the Content. Compliment the Staff and help them help you. Compete if you have to, but only if you have no other recourse.

Hey, who took my soapbox?

*transmission static* Edited March 18, 2013 by Pakkrat

[Vitaes]

If someone needs an ore for a mission or needs a particular ore to build a comp, all they have to do is send me a message and ask. I would always honor such a request, as I would appreciate the courtesy that the other miner showed. Leaping from one roid to another to cherry pick the best is rude. I would never do that to someone. As someone else mentioned, it's like taking the best loot and leaving the rest for everyone else.

 

Yes, that field does not have my name on it. Hell, I could do the same to someone else. But why? Why anger people in a small player base? It makes no sense. This is why I liked open PvP games. That, Critchon, is the ultimate competition.

 

Pakk may say that if a PS dropped in on my little JE I'd stand no chance anyway. The strong will survive, right? Not really. Darwin never said anything about the strong surviving. Yes, it's one of our great myths. Darwin said that those able to adapt to new surroundings or situations will survive, not the strongest. I could chase that PS away without firing a shot. I could make it so uncomfortable for him that he wouldn't want to mine anywhere near me. I don't have that option now. The only option I have is to mine a field in a non-linear fashion, or be rude to others.

[Terrell [BT]]

You'd just find some places to mine where there's environmental effects. A JE can protect himself from such effects, while a PE cannot.

[SiSL]

I believe there are enough ores for everyone to be happy together...  While I like fighting, my miner turned into my main, last night for instance, we have cleaned entire set of large fields with another miner who I never see or heard before. Even we chat during... We were not grouped but probably none of us had any grunge they mine... 

 

As long as they do not macro-mining, I'm happy to share any node with any other miners... Easy to test, just send a tell to them... 

Edited March 20, 2013 by SiSL

[GenghisBob]

I still can not understand why there are so many players that want everyone to play exactly as they do.  Different players want to play differently.  The game allows that but many of the players can not accept that.  It's play my way or I'm gonna whine until you do.

 

Grow up.  Everyone does not have to play by your rules.  They have to play by the rules of the game, not YOUR rules.

[Pakkrat [N7LA]]

[quote name="GenghisBob" post="75538" timestamp="1363790361"]I still can not understand why there are so many players that want everyone to play exactly as they do.  Different players want to play differently.  The game allows that but many of the players can not accept that.  It's play my way or I'm gonna whine until you do.   Grow up.  Everyone does not have to play by your rules.  They have to play by the rules of the game, not YOUR rules.[/quote] Would you, sir care to back that up with an accurate, complete list of all of your toons? From the galactic registry at NET-7 SOL, this is the Pakkrat.

[GenghisBob]

What would that have to do with anything?

 

I have some of each Progen, a 150 JE and just started a JD, and some TTs and a Scout.   No Enforcer or Seeker yet.

 

But so what?  People mine where I mine, people hunt where I hunt.  I sometimes mine/hunt for credits and scoop everything in sight.  I sometimes mine/hunt for a particular ore/item and ignore all I don't want.  I assume everyone is not doing the exact same as I am most of the time.

 

I would not try to kill a boss after someone else killed the minions (or whatever) to get him to spawn, but just a timed boss it open to all.

 

The same with ores, open to all.  If you try to make everyone conform to YOUR ARTIFICIAL RULES you are going to spend more time hating/despising other players than playing the game.

 

STOP THE MADNESS - it is not YOUR game, it is not YOUR rules.  It is OUR game, and the DEVs rules.

[Overtkill]

Mining etiquette would still suggest that if you touch a roid to mine whatever from it and there is still something left inside, that you clear out said roid before moving on. Or else risk being branded a "cherry picker." Someone who only takes what they want, and leaves behind only the trash for the next guy. This is especially true for hulks.

 

The golden rule when mining has always been to empty the resource if you have drilled it for something. But people will be people, and cherry pickers will always be. So all we can do is recite the golden rule in hopes that it will eventually sink into the cherry picker's thick skull. :)

 

Thanks for reading...

 

-Overt.

[Stanig[IS]]

While there is no rule against it, and it is considered part of normal gameplay, being that everything is in a open world accessible to whoever comes across it...

 

Youre gonna have to deal with your fellow players if you go against the "code" of the playerbase.  We wont enforce anything, but I bet you dont find many groups or builds if you dont play nice.

 

Amirite?

 

Its just a simple click, clean up your mess, save the hassle and the drama, a little debris never hurt anyone.

[GenghisBob]

You sound like the majority agree with you.  It is a very small percentage of whiners that come here and vent their petty gripes.  If you want the game to be a certain way, make it that way and stop complaining about the way other people choose to play the game.

 

I am a real stickler for rules.  I would never intentionally break any rule in any game.  It's not worth playing if you cheat and win.  Anyone can win if they cheat.

 

On the other hand, I do not appreciate others making up their own rules and telling me I have to (or even should) obey them.  It is a rule or it isn't.

 

ps. I do clean out any 'roid I open.  I also clean up debris left by others from hulks.  I am saying, quit trying to make people play your way.

[Stanig[IS]]

Its actually pretty simple.  Like said before, in an official capacity I will say right now there is no formal rule being broken.  Now quote that, eat it up, and be happy.

 

On the other hand, I do not control what other players choose to do.  If they wish to deny service to, or scapegoat and refuse to group with, someone who engages in this activity?  Again, I wont do a thing to them either.

 

That is the point I am making.  And believe me, its not some vocal few, there are literally dozens of them that have been bringing this up for years, even dating back into original live.

 

So honestly, give it a rest with the slams about them being whiners.  Quite frankly they are not.  It is a right annoying thing to hop into a field thats been stripped bare of the "good stuff" leaving nothing but garbage behind to clean up.  It happens, we deal with it, we move on.  But, if those who want to leave messes behind expect to be smiled upon by the community at large, I got a little advice:  clean up your mess.  Otherwise you reap what you sow.  It is as simple as that.

[Vitaes]

You sound like the majority agree with you.  It is a very small percentage of whiners that come here and vent their petty gripes.  If you want the game to be a certain way, make it that way and stop complaining about the way other people choose to play the game.

 

I am a real stickler for rules.  I would never intentionally break any rule in any game.  It's not worth playing if you cheat and win.  Anyone can win if they cheat.

 

On the other hand, I do not appreciate others making up their own rules and telling me I have to (or even should) obey them.  It is a rule or it isn't.

 

ps. I do clean out any 'roid I open.  I also clean up debris left by others from hulks.  I am saying, quit trying to make people play your way.

 

I didn't tell anyone to play my way. I gave an opinion, nothing more. if you don't like it, fine.

[alred]

I know in World of Warcraft [I know this isn't WOW], that if a player has started mining a nod, and another player comes along and tries mining the same node, they get a message saying they can't.

 

Now for a player just "cherry" picking, and not clearing nodes, could a decay timer be activated on that node?

Meaning after, lets say 2 minutes, that node that was "cherry picked" decays and is replaced by a full node.

Many players had complained about this in WOW. That miners were cherry picking mining nods and leaving "trash" and just taking the good stuff. So the devs established a timer for the nodes, and they decay after a set amount of time after being accessed and not completly harvested.

 

I understand the first come, first serve approach. It's a popular trend in all the MMO's I play.

Mostly it's ok, as it seldom interfers with my game play, but there are times where it's frustrating.

But like life, I just learn to deal with it, and take a moment to reflect on how happy things are.

;)

Edited March 30, 2013 by alred

[cpwings]

I too used to relax while mining when I found a field that wasn't guarded. It's a little harder to find those now.

There are many reasons why players cherry pick especially in high level fields. They could be doing a mission that requires a large amount of a particular ore so they take that only and move on. They could be maxed already so aren't interested in the XP but are looking for ammo or weapons ores.

It takes a long time to pull large quantities of anything including debris. When the field is guarded by high level mobs that want to turn you into charcoal, it can seem like an eternity. Risk versus reward. A high level item/ore is worth the risk but debris isn't IMO.

Low to mid level miners love stacks of debris. Great, leave it for those fields. If there has to be some in high level fields, I'd suggest reducing the quantities and thus the time to pull them. This should encourage players to empty the roid/hulk.

There is more than enough debris in low level fields to meet the needs of builders.