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madline

Pls Change Your Mindset.

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Maybe its only me but i dont understand why this game is so fokused on JOB's.

Can u pls explain me why i got no exp for playing the game ?

For example, i have a lvl 140 PW with 44/49/47 (do u see what is wrong?)

so i go out for hunting lets say lvl 43-46 for 1 hour, i need 20 Stacks of ammo got most lvl 4-6 crap loot and around 25k c-exp.
at the same time i run Combat Jobs with my PP 38/44/50 need 4 Stack Ammo same loot but around 100k c-exp.

Dont missunderstand be but as a Warrior Class i like to go out with a Vault full of ammo fight on a nice spot get a loot u can stack and that is worth to trade and sell and a realistic amount of COMBAT EXP.

And if i risk a fight with a lv 50+ and it cost my more then 4 stack ammo and 30 min to kill him then i will 30k exp for it and not 5k and 2 lvl 5 loot pieces, i got more then 50k when i run Job's for this time.

In my mind u destroy the middle lvl content complitly, every1 running jobs to lvl up faster , no combat or mining grp's no drop or ore knowlege

its so sad to see. Think about and adjust it in the right direction pls.

YOU DO HERE A FANTASTIC JOB TO BRING THIS GAME AT THIS STAND and i like to be here and can play it again, but pls dont damm us to run job's.

I hope my english isnt that bad that u understand what i mean.
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Jobs will be getting hit with the nerf bat at some point. At the moment its way too easy to level on jobs.
I think the devs are already working on how to balance the xp a bit better from them.

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From my standpoint, this is a frustration as well. I wrote a massive mid to high level content themepark in progen space for the live push, and plugged it again on the last content note patch, and havent seen many doing it. When I tested those missions I dinged six times, came out with over 2 million in credits, and six new items I couldnt get anywhere else. It did take me a whole two or three days to do it playing casual, but it beat sitting at a job terminal.

Its not that its anything fantastic or crazy whoa out there, but its a viable alternative to jobs that grants a decent amount of XP, credits, and new items as you dig deeper into it.

However, because of efficiency and min/max mentality and the "tried and true" of leveling a JE to wormhole the rest of the alts around and just jobbing to 150, not a single person has done enough of the new missions for even a single one of the new items to be owned by any player. No one has even seen the items. (checked the IDs earlier, and none of them are owned by any player avatar)

Id be all for a severe nerfing of the job system, I think its needed it for a very long time. However I also know we have bigger fish to fry right now, like getting the server stable and the midnight DNS issue resolved. I can bring this up at the next meeting, but I couldnt give you a timeframe or anything like that, but yes ongoing balance needs to be addressed.

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Stanig,

I'd like to thank you for the new content push. :D Without revealing too much, would you mind letting us know how to start the theme park missions? I'd be happy to do them with my Progen characters and any other races that are able to take the missions.

Am I asking for too much information? :) EDITED: Silly me! Is this what you are referring to: "New Progen Content. Speak with Zieg, Magister Constantius, or Deschide Poarta anytime after level 50 to get started."?

If so, I'll get started as soon as my PP hits OL 50! Thanks again!

Iacobus

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There is also a 4th and 5th npc. the 4th one Zieg will refer you to if you talk to him anytime after i think level 30. The 5th one doesnt give any missions til the other 4 branches are done.

Basically, the first 4 NPCs (Zeig, Zieg's Friend, Constantius, Deschide) give 4-5 missions each - one at level 50, one at level 60, one at level 75, one at level 100 - (like 16 total or something), and once all those are done, you go to the 5th NPC, who should be obvious by this point since he will be mentioned a bit and i think the missions flat out say to go to him after level 100, and theres like 5 more missions to do.

Its meant to be done over time, to come back to it every now and then. I mean you can do it all at level 100+ but i figured every time someone hull upgraded or so, theyd come back and find a few missions to do.

Youll see, hopefully someone figures it all out. Theres also like 20 odd repeatable xp/credit only missions scattered all over the place there. *shrug* I didnt want to be that obvious, I figured people would explore first, right? But when I saw everyone hit the job terms I was like meh. But im glad to see people going after it. Heck maybe someone will find some bugs too so I can fix em.



Basically...

At level 50 get all four start missions done for each main NPC
At level 60 do the second missions for each main NPC
At level 75 do the third missions for each main NPC
At level 100 do the final missions for each main NPC

At level 100 - 135 (i think some are required level 120+), with all the above done, get the final series of missions from the last NPC.

Make sense? You could theoretically go back at level 135 and do them all, but eh, that would just be boring imo. But you could.

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i think madline may be referring to just "normal" grinding, not necessarily "new" content. it is actually rather difficult to "normal" grind, that is why so many people are doing jobs. New content is great, but as a player who takes her time leveling up, & only doing one toon or maybe 2 at a time, it will take a while to get to some of the new content. Not criticizing, just making a statement, I am in no hurry to get to level 150 on any of my toons, i want to enjoy the game, explore, find new things, in my own time :)

the one thing i really am annoyed with is mining; especially low level, where there are new mobs, where there weren't any before, it is rather difficult for a CL 1 JE to mine, even level 1-4 ores now. and please, don't tell me to group with a warrior, that should not be necessary, i like to mine alone, as it relaxes me, i don't want to "have" to have someone with me.

thank you for listening.
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[quote name='Stanig' timestamp='1355406367' post='68932']
From my standpoint, this is a frustration as well. I wrote a massive mid to high level content themepark in progen space for the live push, and plugged it again on the last content note patch, and havent seen many doing it. When I tested those missions I dinged six times, came out with over 2 million in credits, and six new items I couldnt get anywhere else. It did take me a whole two or three days to do it playing casual, but it beat sitting at a job terminal.

Its not that its anything fantastic or crazy whoa out there, but its a viable alternative to jobs that grants a decent amount of XP, credits, and new items as you dig deeper into it.

However, because of efficiency and min/max mentality and the "tried and true" of leveling a JE to wormhole the rest of the alts around and just jobbing to 150, not a single person has done enough of the new missions for even a single one of the new items to be owned by any player. No one has even seen the items. (checked the IDs earlier, and none of them are owned by any player avatar)

Id be all for a severe nerfing of the job system, I think its needed it for a very long time. However I also know we have bigger fish to fry right now, like getting the server stable and the midnight DNS issue resolved. I can bring this up at the next meeting, but I couldnt give you a timeframe or anything like that, but yes ongoing balance needs to be addressed.
[/quote]

Trust me, when I start leveling my Progens (all still at OL0), I will be running your missions, and getting that gear.

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[quote name='Stanig' timestamp='1355406367' post='68932']
From my standpoint, this is a frustration as well. I wrote a massive mid to high level content themepark in progen space for the live push, and plugged it again on the last content note patch, and havent seen many doing it. When I tested those missions I dinged six times, came out with over 2 million in credits, and six new items I couldnt get anywhere else. It did take me a whole two or three days to do it playing casual, but it beat sitting at a job terminal.

Its not that its anything fantastic or crazy whoa out there, but its a viable alternative to jobs that grants a decent amount of XP, credits, and new items as you dig deeper into it.

However, because of efficiency and min/max mentality and the "tried and true" of leveling a JE to wormhole the rest of the alts around and just jobbing to 150, not a single person has done enough of the new missions for even a single one of the new items to be owned by any player. No one has even seen the items. (checked the IDs earlier, and none of them are owned by any player avatar)

Id be all for a severe nerfing of the job system, I think its needed it for a very long time. However I also know we have bigger fish to fry right now, like getting the server stable and the midnight DNS issue resolved. I can bring this up at the next meeting, but I couldnt give you a timeframe or anything like that, but yes ongoing balance needs to be addressed.
[/quote]


Why?
I mean why try to force people to do mid to low level content? There should be a choice here. If someone wants to do that content then great for them. If someone wants to go to 150 to raid then they should be able to as well why would you want to force this? I think this is a valid question. Think of it this way not everyone shares your view on content and how to get to end game. Please dont be so focused on making people play they way you want them to and allow choices so more can enjoy it. 2 cents and if i get change back great!

PS I just started my PW and might give these new missions a try but I also would like to have a choice.
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Reason 1: There are 150 levels, not 1 level. Making content for only 1 level (the highest one) is only catering to one aspect of the game. End game. It causes the perpetual cycle where everything but final loadout is useless and there is never any reason to do anything but fast track to 150 and then bore oneself with the same 3-5 raids endlessly for months. How many more level 9 items do you really think this game needs?

Reason 2: There was a serious lack of any content post skill mission and prior to raids. These add a flexibility from 50-135 that was not there before. Hopefully even more can be added as the story progresses.

Reason 3: Community feedback demanded mid level content. Ive heard it on the forums, in the game, on teamspeak, everywhere. My bad that I wasnt clear enough when patch time came to let the people know.

Reason 4: It gave an opportunity to add some items that were missing/desired. Hopefully some of these have filled that gap or given more options down the line.

Reason 5: Not everyone is a hardcore mode gogogogogogogo player. Casual pacers and especially those returning will be looking for something to actually do vs sitting at a job terminal with their JE at Surti Alpha.

Reason 6: There is plenty of endgame future content already in the works or planned, I did not need to focus my attention there.


There you go.


Oh the part about jobs? Separate issue, but it ties in, since the ONLY real way of leveling was either natural grinding or jobs for the last two years.
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[quote name='Stanig' timestamp='1355427630' post='68985']
Reason 1: There are 150 levels, not 1 level. Making content for only 1 level (the highest one) is only catering to one aspect of the game. End game. It causes the perpetual cycle where everything but final loadout is useless and there is never any reason to do anything but fast track to 150 and then bore oneself with the same 3-5 raids endlessly for months. How many more level 9 items do you really think this game needs?

Reason 2: There was a serious lack of any content post skill mission and prior to raids. These add a flexibility from 50-135 that was not there before. Hopefully even more can be added as the story progresses.

Reason 3: Community feedback demanded mid level content. Ive heard it on the forums, in the game, on teamspeak, everywhere. My bad that I wasnt clear enough when patch time came to let the people know.

Reason 4: It gave an opportunity to add some items that were missing/desired. Hopefully some of these have filled that gap or given more options down the line.

Reason 5: Not everyone is a hardcore mode gogogogogogogo player. Casual pacers and especially those returning will be looking for something to actually do vs sitting at a job terminal with their JE at Surti Alpha.

Reason 6: There is plenty of endgame future content already in the works or planned, I did not need to focus my attention there.


There you go.


Oh the part about jobs? Separate issue, but it ties in, since the ONLY real way of leveling was either natural grinding or jobs for the last two years.
[/quote]

I agree with all of your reasons but the first one actually. However you missed my point completely. There are more then one kind of player. There are those that like the slow grind and those that like end game. Again I ask you why not make both happy here. Forcing someone to play a game the way they do not like will cause people to not play. If you dont enjoy it would you play it? Add all the mid and low content you want. I am not against that at all. Let the other players play the way they want as well is all I am saying. As for the feedback was it the same 3 people? I am asking you to see reason here.

Just like the DEV/GM's I want to see the game headed in a good direction not taking a step back.

One last thing, again I ask you. If you dont enjoy a game would you play it? Edited by Canman

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Stanig I wish someone would go out and do your uber-dooper new Progen content just so you stop whining! I will probably get to it in due course on my slow-lane Progens but unfortunately Progens will be the last characters that I end up playing and you know why. All my Terrans and Jenquais will be 150 before that happens.

:unsure:

Until then I guess you're gonna keep using the "nobody is doing my Progen content because ..." and attribute it to whatever is flavor of the day. Then expect players behavior to get nerfed into line! Until they do your content ... TBH Your complaining is getting a bit repetitive for those that are keeping note. Players will choose what they wanna do.

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lol. You really want to go there? Ok lets go there. There is no pleasing some of you people. You want this, you get this, you complain. You want that, you get that, you complain. No matter what the dev team does, you complain. Complain complain complain.

Nothing is ever good enough, I gave an example of missed stuff, and now youre saying i wont rest til people do it? I dont care if you do it or not, but dont whine that theres nothing to do when youre 150 with nothing to actually do. You feel me? It was there and those who chose to race to the 150 thinking thats all there is, well... sorry.

*shrug*

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[quote name='Canman' timestamp='1355434872' post='68989']
I agree with all of your reasons but the first one actually. However you missed my point completely. There are more then one kind of player. There are those that like the slow grind and those that like end game. Again I ask you why not make both happy here. Forcing someone to play a game the way they do not like will cause people to not play. If you dont enjoy it would you play it? Add all the mid and low content you want. I am not against that at all. Let the other players play the way they want as well is all I am saying. As for the feedback was it the same 3 people? I am asking you to see reason here.

Just like the DEV/GM's I want to see the game headed in a good direction not taking a step back.

One last thing, again I ask you. If you dont enjoy a game would you play it?
[/quote]

I think i crossed over two things here. I saw two questions in the OP. Should the jobs be toned down? Yes I believe so. Why? Because new stuff has been added in place of where it used to be only jobs.

Im not saying one over the other, but realistically jobs in and of themselves have been needing balanced for a long time, and I gave one example of how theres stuff to replace any loss that may come with the loss of the one method everyone grew to use.

I dunno, alternatives are good I guess? I dont know the plans exactly for the jobs system. I do know that for the live purists out there, they would recognize that this version here in the EMU is giving both far too much experience, and far too many jobs per cycle compared to 10 years ago.

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[quote name='Stanig' timestamp='1355436624' post='68999']
I think i crossed over two things here. I saw two questions in the OP. Should the jobs be toned down? Yes I believe so. Why? Because new stuff has been added in place of where it used to be only jobs.

Im not saying one over the other, but realistically jobs in and of themselves have been needing balanced for a long time, and I gave one example of how theres stuff to replace any loss that may come with the loss of the one method everyone grew to use.

I dunno, alternatives are good I guess? I dont know the plans exactly for the jobs system. I do know that for the live purists out there, they would recognize that this version here in the EMU is giving both far too much experience, and far too many jobs per cycle compared to 10 years ago.
[/quote]

The only thing I would question is why compare anything to 10 years ago. The Devs have decided to change many things from live, some I think for the good, IMO some not for the good.

As far as nerfing the Jobs I don't understand why, if you nerf the jobs to the point no one does them, they will just go to the next thing where they can level the quickest. Do we nerf everything to the point the game is work and not fun? I believe anything that is done needs to be looked at long and hard.
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[quote name='Stanig' timestamp='1355436073' post='68995']
lol. You really want to go there? Ok lets go there. There is no pleasing some of you people. You want this, you get this, you complain. You want that, you get that, you complain. No matter what the dev team does, you complain. Complain complain complain.

Nothing is ever good enough, I gave an example of missed stuff, and now youre saying i wont rest til people do it? I dont care if you do it or not, but dont whine that theres nothing to do when youre 150 with nothing to actually do. You feel me? It was there and those who chose to race to the 150 thinking thats all there is, well... sorry.

*shrug*
[/quote]

You are seeing what just about any DEV for any game goes through. The only thing you can do is separate the ones that are complaining for themselves and the ones who want an overall improvement for all.

The paradox is that both sides have to be unhappy to be happy. You make the decision to go one way then you get one side unhappy, then do the opposite and make the original unhappy. There is only the middle where each side gets part of what they want and not all of either.

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[quote name='Stanig' timestamp='1355436073' post='68995']
lol. You really want to go there? Ok lets go there. There is no pleasing some of you people. You want this, you get this, you complain. You want that, you get that, you complain. No matter what the dev team does, you complain. Complain complain complain.

Nothing is ever good enough, I gave an example of missed stuff, and now youre saying i wont rest til people do it? I dont care if you do it or not, but dont whine that theres nothing to do when youre 150 with nothing to actually do. You feel me? It was there and those who chose to race to the 150 thinking thats all there is, well... sorry.

*shrug*
[/quote]

Why do you (Stanig) get so defensive and hostile? The players want the same thing you Devs want, a great game that everyone wants to play. We do realize there will be compromising and no one will ever be completely happy but name calling solves nothing.

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Stanig you're one to talk! You complain non-stop about stuff, kinda ironic thats your response.

:rolleyes:

And it is no surprise you suggest that jobs need nerfing. The OP was kinda complaing that regular combat is just not worth it any more may be thats due to mobs getting buffed and needing crazy amounts of ammo to kill, their loot tables getting nerfed to make loot not so productive either. Never forget the impact linked mobs have on combat too.

But jobs getting nerfed kinda would fall into the nerfing trend that is slowly eating away at what fun is left. Trade runs used to be worthwhile XP for doing them in the STs but got nerfed in to not worth bothering with any more. May be they're not the problem may be its that everything else has become less and less effective for levelling up and rewards.

I did a couple of the repeatable Progen missions but I guess I am not into repeatable stuff like that or jobbing either for that matter. I prefer to go shoot stuff even if its difficult and less productive. Might get something useful to map, guess I am ultimately always a builder looking for something to print I haven't already gotten.

Trying to slow down everyones levelling is about as futile as trying to make "the economy" work. Eventually, given enough time we'll all be 150 again doing stuff for free. I suppose then there will be some sort of data loss on the server and whoops sorry gotta acidentally wipe everyone! Well, we'll be told it was an accident anyway.

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Tienbau set up jobs with an ex
perience reward that was considerably higher than the live game. Ive been aware of this since well
before this post. It was brought up in a meeting several months ago.The reason ive left it as is, is because of the lack of enough

missions to make them a viable alternative on their own.

That being said, when i am this XP will receive an adjustment to bring it inline with the other playstyles; however, please note
this is some time off and the night before last i gave the content team the directive that all 4 major player archetypes (see my sig) should
be given equal consideration in all mission parks going forward regardless of their personal tastes.

To the team, frustrated or not, stop lashing out.
To the Players, as i said the other night in the ingame chat we had, keep it civil & constructive and lose the "devs hate us"
attitude. We dont, for without you the game would die out or we would lose interest ourselves.

If i have to say it again, im not going to be so nice about it.
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apologies for disjointed text, posted from tablet

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As most folks know, I played fairly early in beta (WW's beta), then live. Now in beta we all had specific things to test at specific levels in specific areas. Open beta came along for stressing etc and gameplay was more do it all type stuff. OL happened, (Original Live) many things were broken and adjusted shortly after release. I still remember all the hoopla on enb's forums over the TW nerfing lol.

Anyway, during OL, just about everyone was at the job terminals, anyone remember VT? lol. Jobs were the fastest way to gain xp then, and still are. Big surprise. Too fast? Doesn't seem it to me, but then I'm not hardcore knocking them down as fast as possible either.

Lots of valid points put forth in this thread, a little less hostility and it would be pretty constructive I think.

And Stanig, just as soon as my progens get brought up, they are gonna do your missions, thanks for the work involved in making them. :)
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Before taking the nerf bat to the job terminal, why not consider doing things the other way: make natural grinding more rewarding. And I'm talking both in XP and in loot. Natural grinding has ALWAYS been the biggest waste of time in this game, which is a terrible shame. And I'm not saying elevate it to the same degree of viability as level-appropriate missions or jobs, but at least give it a non-zero level of viability. The biggest problem with natural grinding, the way I see it, is that the combat xp reward for killing an equal-level mob starts to be completely pitiful and not worth the time investment around about CL 5-8.
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Yes i also remember runnig jobs Vt or Fenris to ABB but for Trade or Explore exp never for Combat, my PW's Beta, Live, or ST3-4 was always unbalanced like hell, clvl morst time 15 lvl higher as the others, but i iam a warrior class so i do combat.

I never say nerf the Job exp i only say pls give me(us) exp for killing(grinding) mobs and a loot with a realistic lvl for the lvl i kill. Why can i loot lvl 5 stuff from lvl 25 and get lvl 4 loot from lvl 43 and ok if lvl 4 then pls raise the amount, thats the thing i think need balance.

If plp will do only Job's hey run it but i hate Job's and i hate it at Beta, Live or St's.

You can say now hey if u dont like Job's then dont do it, again thats not the point but if i kill lvl 40 mobs for 3-5 hours then for example it would be fair to get 1-2 clvl, 1-2 trade lvl from selling loot and 1-2 mill credits and not 0,3-0,5 clvl and tlvl.

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[quote name='Yuritau' timestamp='1355469314' post='69042']
Before taking the nerf bat to the job terminal, why not consider doing things the other way: make natural grinding more rewarding. And I'm talking both in XP and in loot. Natural grinding has ALWAYS been the biggest waste of time in this game, which is a terrible shame. And I'm not saying elevate it to the same degree of viability as level-appropriate missions or jobs, but at least give it a non-zero level of viability. The biggest problem with natural grinding, the way I see it, is that the combat xp reward for killing an equal-level mob starts to be completely pitiful and not worth the time investment around about CL 5-8.
[/quote]
[quote name='MadLine' timestamp='1355484564' post='69047']
Yes i also remember runnig jobs Vt or Fenris to ABB but for Trade or Explore exp never for Combat, my PW's Beta, Live, or ST3-4 was always unbalanced like hell, clvl morst time 15 lvl higher as the others, but i iam a warrior class so i do combat.

I never say nerf the Job exp i only say pls give me(us) exp for killing(grinding) mobs and a loot with a realistic lvl for the lvl i kill. Why can i loot lvl 5 stuff from lvl 25 and get lvl 4 loot from lvl 43 and ok if lvl 4 then pls raise the amount, thats the thing i think need balance.

If plp will do only Job's hey run it but i hate Job's and i hate it at Beta, Live or St's.

You can say now hey if u dont like Job's then dont do it, again thats not the point but if i kill lvl 40 mobs for 3-5 hours then for example it would be fair to get 1-2 clvl, 1-2 trade lvl from selling loot and 1-2 mill credits and not 0,3-0,5 clvl and tlvl.
[/quote]

Yeah I agree.

Live it was perfectly normal for your CL to be the highest for warrior class and explorers usually had the lowest CL. Unless a system is put into place that gives you a choice of run jobs for explore, combat and worthwhile trade xp for jobs, killing or missions. Then don't swing the nerf bat so hard.

One of the best games I have played (hate to fall back on it, but it is a good example) is RIFT in leveling. It had a fluid feel to leveling as you completed one story arc and moved to the next part of the storyline/zone you were either at the appropriate level or very near to it. Take the starter missions from the noob zone, they got you to a level you could handle the next and after that the next etc etc. Sure you may have to grind a level at some point or run some dungeons to get to the appropriate level for the next zone missions on the occasion, but it felt fluid and not forced.

Look at how many games that seemed like they would be great fell flat on their faces as they catered to either the "hardcore: or "casual". Or gave into the vast majority of complaints and ruined themselves by doing so. Usually on most forums you see two types, the sane ones wanting improvement for all or the whiners that just want to satisfy themselves. With the majority it can go either way depending on the ones who complain the loudest, sometimes it is the hardcores and others the whiners.


PS one question I do have is where are the credit rewards for jobs? In live jobs had xp rewards and credit rewards even though the credit rewards were barely enough to pay for WHs to and from where you were running to. I remember paying 20k round trip from VT to ECS Dauntless in ABA and only making 5k off them. Edited by shadowxsx

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Yuritau's point is the precise direction I would recommend, swinging the Nerf Bat on Jobs is the wrong answer though it would undoubtedly be the easiest step to take. Make the traditional methods more viable, mining, non-terminal combat and trade more appealing, not swing Thor's Nerf Hammer.

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What I have been noticing is group hunting and group touring isn't up to par in my opinion. I notice when hunting in a group say of 3 or 4, whoever has the highest CL compared to the mob your hunting, you get that chars solo xp, (in other words you get the highest CL players single kill XP) split 4 ways plus the bonus of having 4 in group. That doesn't seem right, but maybe I am wrong on this or just the bonuses need to be set higher. The same goes for people doing tours, seems to me you get more XP quicker if you just take a single toon out and get the navs instead of being grouped. Right now the only one getting the benefit is the higher level player doing the touring. The bonuses just aren't there.

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