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Muhir

Agrippa Technology Tips And Observations

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A few observations and some thoughts after completing the Agrippa lines of shield, reactor, components, and weapons on Joeboo.

Joe was created for the sole purpose of testing the Agrippa content as was instituted within the game. I know that there are some changes forthcoming to the text and such, so I won’t necessarily speak to the specifics of missions or the challenges posed by the former style of content delivery. I’ll let subsequent Progens address the changes as they come across issues or problems or want to sing the praises of the challenge.

Joe was able to progress through Stage I, II, and III with only minimal difficulties in terms of broken or bugged missions. The areas in which he encountered trouble have been documented and discussed with The Powers That Be and they are aware of them. So, it is doable without a ton of problems that have plagued Agrippa in the past. Just be patient, it is NOT a fast process. If you are into quick fixes, rapid rewards, and instant gratification, then perhaps you should choose a different race or avail yourself of the bonus content missions and skip the Agrippa Technology.

General comments as to how to level and do Agrippa content:[list]
[*]Content is extremely specific as to when you do what. At overall level 50, you can do Stage I. You have until you reach OL 75 to complete it. At OL 75, there is not any Agrippa Technology to be had. OL100 opens Stage II, and Stage III is obtainable once you have maxed out your build skills.
[*]Be careful to only take Agrippa missions with your Progen Mission Tokens. You will have the opportunity to choose between bonus content and Agrippa, but be sure you are taking the correct missions.
[*]Call Forward by a PS will be your friend, unless you have an abundance of skill points. If you call a build skill you retain any prints you may have garnered, but lack the necessary skill to build an item that is beyond your current build level.
[*]There are a number of items that will require you to engage with other classes within the Progen race. This is most easily done within the guild structure or a bit slower you will find items via market channel.
[*]Keeping in line with having items built, it is important to remember that anything you need built it is far easier to have all the components before you look to have an item made. Net-7.org and the database there are your friends.
[*]You will need to have a series of raw and refined ores as well; so, make a friend of a miner or two.
[*]A side note here, other than the lower level “loot” only comps that you will be required to provide the NPC, the refined and raw ores can be ripped from the level 1-4 component vendors in the station and the components you need built including the ores for certain building recipes (assuming you have them printed).
[*]The level 6-9 ores will have to be gathered, as will a fair amount of a particular level 5 ore.
[*]A really good idea is to either utilize existing or establish new “team vault” characters and have them strategically placed at stations that can provide you the items that you will need. By utilizing the vaults you can easily transfer large amounts of items from station to station and character to character.
[*]If the components are not listed for a specific build in your mission log, talking again to the NPC can tell you what item they want. Doing it this way is a bit slow and laborious, but possible and manageable if you have vault characters that can acquire the item and transfer it to you so you can obtain the next item on the list.
[*]If you can ascertain the specific item (not always clear) that you will be building, the database at net-7.org can provide you with the item list to build a specific item. Then, all you have to do is turn them into the NPC.
[*]The NPC’s will take one item at a time or take all the required items. I didn’t take the chance of having them take extras and offered them just one of each item.
[*]In almost all cases, you will need more than one of each item required. It is a good idea to keep on hand a supply of the hull mesh laminates(self-created) as well as the lvl 4 device that the PS make, and as you progress, the level 7 Stage II encryptions(self- obtained), and eventually the level 9 Stage III Encryptions (PS are required for these items).
[*]Testing items you make will be required. In some instances, you can not test your own items, and you must find a willing Progen of the appropriate level and skill set that is defined in your mission criteria.
[*]When you can test your own builds, Stage II, you must equip the shield and the reactor, but have in your cargo the Flachette and its ammunition.
[*]Another interesting discovery, you can complete the “destroy x, y, z mob” legs of missions in a group. It will go far faster than soloing, but it is all able to be completed by a single character player.
[/list]
So, good luck, fellow Progens as you embark on the odyssey that is Agrippa Technology. As you are cursing under your breath at the developer who is responsible, understand that his is a labor of love and be grateful we have such detailed and race specific content. Edited by Muhir

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If only that maximum HU/level limit was taken off. I understand a minimum one, but the maximum one is just overkill.
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Hull requirement remains, both for progression requirements and mission game mechanics reasons. It is only Stage I that has the Hull Requirement, stages II and III are high / end-game content, not requiring any hull level. The progren receives limited amounts of tokens during their hull advancement that they choose to spend on selective missions, each mission will set a task assigned to their current level/hull level and require a skill that is possible to be obtained at that level but would have restricted development in another skill.

By committing to this skill in the early stage, the NPC can be assured that the Progen is committed to their work, and has devised means to test their resolve.

The best thing from Muhir's post is "[i]was able to progress through Stage I, II, and III[/i]". This proves that currently on Sunrise server Agrippa missions work, and just now need tweaking and having flavour text added.
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The only hang up that currently exists is that of the Stage I weapons and ammunition.

Bug report here : [url="https://forum.enb-emulator.com/index.php?/tracker/issue-422-agrippa-weapons-build-stage-i/"]https://forum.enb-emulator.com/index.php?/tracker/issue-422-agrippa-weapons-build-stage-i/[/url]

Byakhee, Darkk, and Freak are aware of the hang up here and are working to resolve it in an appropriate manner. Magoo is involved at this stage at the moment as well.

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I completed Agrippa on PW/PS/PP months ago and must say it was a welcome addititon to the game and would like to thank all involved in its development . Is there going to be further development of it ?

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I am planning a suggestion post for improving the agrippa technology line of items. It will not have ANYTHING to do with the missions, but rather the items and possibly and expansion into other gear for the "lesser" races.

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Take the gate to the stage 1 out for toons already established. I am not deleting my main character just to go back and pick up one weapon map. Thats lunacy. I do all the stage 2 weapons/ammo, but cant do the stage 3 because i was already a consul when the whole dang thing came out. Thats the issue.

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[quote name='Ryle' timestamp='1345498766' post='62033']
If only that maximum HU/level limit was taken off. I understand a minimum one, but the maximum one is just overkill.
[/quote]
I believe Darkk has said that there are no more upper limits now.

Could TPTB please confirm here? thanks

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The HU reqs on the actual agrippa missions were removed, however the token missions still have limits. That is the way I understand Byakhee set it up.

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The missions to test the Agrippa Content that you have created no longer have hull specified requirements.

However.
To begin any Stage I Agrippa Technology as a Progen you need to use one of your mission tokens on a token mission. These mission are limited to hull level. As these are Token missions.

Currently in game:

Those locked to hull level 50 will remain locked to hull level 50 as only require a build skill of 3
Those locked to hull level 100 ....


... next patch on tuesday (today)

Will be able to be done if you have hull level 50, 75 or 100 and the appropiate level of skill.
Will explain to you fully what you need to advance if you do not meet requirement.
Will confirm that if you spend a token and then forfeit the mission that the token is lost, never reimbursed.
Will never be able to be [b][i]started [/i][/b]if you have your final hull upgrade.

Token missions always have an lower hull limit and an upper hull limit.
After the patch the following limits will apply:

50 - 50 (unchanged)
75 - 75 (unchanged - to be looked at for the following patch to see if 50 - 75 is possible)
50 - 100 (changed)
100 (unlimited) - one special mission requiring the content of the hull upgrade now no longer will be limited to the upper regions. Unlocks ** Capture the Cargo ** This will be the only token mission like this, so will guarantee one token mission can be done by everyone (if you have tokens)

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[i]Level 135 hull upgrade will never be removed from all but the (unlimited) mission.[/i]

[i]The missions now will look at your capability to combat creatures too, if your CL is -10 of the mob then you will not be able to select the mission. On the whole those combat missions originally requiring level 100 hull upgrade only, send you to fight CL 35 mobs or lower. In this case you will not be able to see the token mission unless you have a combat level >= 25.[/i]

[i]Tokens are intended to be used on missions when during your character development it is a challenge. Please note the requirment is to start the mission and if you find it too hard you could store it in your mission log for when you feel you want to do it. Just remember if you forfeit this mission you may now have too high a hull upgrade to select it again.[/i]

[i]You have been warned.[/i]
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*Baffled* *Looks at my Progen characters* *Looks at above* *Looks at Agrippa*

...

Says to guild members "You first! lemme know how it goes" *shelves Progens*

We get told there are no upper limits to Agrippa any more and low and behold! Yes there are. OL135 is still a barrier to being able to do stages I, II and III. Still de-ciphering the rest of Byakhees posts cant decide what they said yet ...
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Lot.
Agrippa is bonus content, originally Stage I was bonus content from some Token Missions.

These Token Missions are the only missions with the limiting factor of hull level. You do a limited hull level and then it gets unlocked. Beyond then there are no limits on any hull level for this mission line.

Token Missions test you characters willingess to put points into skills a lot earlier than your maximum loadout. If you arn't willing to put points into build skills to (a maximum of level 5) before you have obtained your level 135 hull upgrade, then the Token Mission that could be unlocked is not for you.

With invitations, anyone can get into Stage II of Agrippa Technology.

Stage I and III is, and has always been, the bonus content for the original Token Mission that unlocked it.
It is intended the other Token missions will unlock other high level content of similar relative nature, items, raids etc but until now only the build lines are in place.

You only need the required hull level for the original token mission.
For the original token missions that could be done only at hull 100 now these can be done:

At 50 or 75 or 100 if you have the required skill and token

Not at your final hull upgrade (unless specified as unlimited, in which case there is only one and it isn't Agrippa)

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Token Mission
- Requirements to speak for devices, reactors, shields, projectile launchers:

NOT overall level 135
Trade >= 25

- Requirements to start
Build skill 5+
Token
Hull level between and including 50 and 100

- Mission involves
Manufacturing existing items in the game to prove you can create them (must be made by yourself)

- Mission unlocks (per research path)
Stage I of Agrippa Technology of each of these lines that can be done anytime (no limits)
Stage III entry - anytime (no limits)

and buy into Stage II entry (no limits)


Characters not done the original token mission will only see Stage II entry for that line.

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We were told that the brackets on Agrippa content were removed.

Was this a lie? Or is it another case of broken down communication between you Byakhee and the rest of the staff? Because it seems like actually, really nothing has changed with Agrippa at all. And that is very disappointing because its not what we were allowed to believe.

Progens have two choices after the wipe:

1) Go for the end content, ignore the Agrippa content because its a road block to levelling. They will also likely skip the other Progen content too.

2) Slow mode again, just like the STs, alpha and beta. Sadly this involves on and off shelving of their Progens because they can't afford to gain XP because they might move out of the bracket. Oh and there's the other Progen content to do too. Caution level extreme!

Or possibly do both at the same time. Two of everything Progen: slow and fast lane. Create two warriors, two privateers, two sentinels -- to do both options. While your end-game Progens are enjoying the end-game content, your slow-lane Progens can do all the middle-game content. But what horrible waste that is! Double characters. Double recipe lists. Double trouble!

We all know what needs to be done. And we wished it were being done!

Rip out the tokens! We dont need them!

Set the minimum requirements for stages I, II and III.

Allow Terrans and Jenquai to still receive invites to do stage II only.

When a Progen reaches 150 they should be able to return and do stages I, II and III of the Agrippa content. There should be no barriers preventing this. None. If a Progen wants to do Agrippa I, II and III at the earliest requirements that is possible too. And then *importantly* Progens can also take part in the rest of the Progen content without fear of out-levelling the brackets or the need to create multiple warriors, privateers or sentinels just to cover all the content.

Right now, the system is the same as before: bad limitations defended with poor excuses. Edited by Lot
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I am only mildly proficient at reading "Byakheese" but it sure sounds like the same thing, with no change. :blink:

I agree with Lot, right down the line, cause I been there, done that with re creating new chars due to level brackets. Dont need them upper level limits, dont need tokens <_<

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Hey guys, I want to apologize for originally reporting that all the agrippa stuff was going to lose its hull requirements. At the time Byakhee was on a leave of absence and hadnt been around much, so we were going to make those changes because none of us really know agrippa like he does. Now that he is back and taking care of his own bugs and updates again, its kinda back in his hands as he sees fit, though like I said earlier in the thread, he did agree to take out some of the core mission hull requirements. Just not the token ones.

Its my fault for telling you guys that, because I was under the impression at the time that was what we were gonna do, but that did change. So I am sorry. It is up to Byakhee really what he does with Agrippa.

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It's not your fault Stannig - several Dev's and others noted that hull requirements were no longer in game (I've even pointed out a lower level HU requirement which Devs said they'd be removing). I am really struggling to understand whether it's worthwhile (HU100) starting Aggrippa given that I was under the assumption you could start it at any time. Sure - the lower level requirements will be a breeze - but who cares? Most people are mostly worried about end-game so understanding the design idea behind this may help us all understand?

The explanations by Byakhee are confusing (sorry Byakhee) but why not just streamline and make your lives (at the very least) easier. Maintaining very complex mission requirements and logic is bound to be limiting your time to enjoy your life. Keep things simple please. Adding explanatory text to help explain a complex questline is like dealing with the symptoms, not the cause. Not sure this is the right way forward - I recognise nobody likes to re-work what they've done, but there must be a simpler way to manage this important questline (yeah - needs to be complex to meet the quest rewards but keep it balanced).

My main issue with following the mission in beta was collecting ores or asking others to do the same (as a PW) - I don't want to start a toon just to help me with a quest, and without an auction house, I don't have time (in the few hours online that I have) to spend time in market channel pleading for things that I need for the quests. Having no HU requirements at least gave me the option of waiting until the market was more mature (ie more miners, ore sellers or whatever) whilst enjoying the game whilst I levelled.

It's won't stop me playing or anything - but if I've passed the line of no return for HU's then it's a quest-line I'm not going to address in live.

Can't we input into whether we want to go down the complex Aggrippa mission route? Edited by underhill

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Stress - I'm trying not to make a fuss - I love the game and you guys are all doing a great job. Toys are safely in my pram.

I do feel sometimes decisions being taken in 'live' are not being fully considered (this is live, not beta - there is a massive difference and you have to expect resistance to change or to things that make playing overly complicated...it's part of life). It's not to say 'don't change' - just think about the consequences as it can be frustrating for us all (i.e. for you also).

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[quote name='Lot' timestamp='1355230286' post='68728']
We were told that the brackets on Agrippa content were removed.

Was this a lie? Or is it another case of broken down communication between you Byakhee and the rest of the staff? Because it seems like actually, really nothing has changed with Agrippa at all. And that is very disappointing because its not what we were allowed to believe.

Progens have two choices after the wipe:

1) Go for the end content, ignore the Agrippa content because its a road block to levelling. They will also likely skip the other Progen content too.

2) Slow mode again, just like the STs, alpha and beta. Sadly this involves on and off shelving of their Progens because they can't afford to gain XP because they might move out of the bracket. Oh and there's the other Progen content to do too. Caution level extreme!

Or possibly do both at the same time. Two of everything Progen: slow and fast lane. Create two warriors, two privateers, two sentinels -- to do both options. While your end-game Progens are enjoying the end-game content, your slow-lane Progens can do all the middle-game content. But what horrible waste that is! Double characters. Double recipe lists. Double trouble!

We all know what needs to be done. And we wished it were being done!

Rip out the tokens! We dont need them!

Set the minimum requirements for stages I, II and III.

Allow Terrans and Jenquai to still receive invites to do stage II only.

When a Progen reaches 150 they should be able to return and do stages I, II and III of the Agrippa content. There should be no barriers preventing this. None. If a Progen wants to do Agrippa I, II and III at the earliest requirements that is possible too. And then *importantly* Progens can also take part in the rest of the Progen content without fear of out-levelling the brackets or the need to create multiple warriors, privateers or sentinels just to cover all the content.

Right now, the system is the same as before: bad limitations defended with poor excuses.
[/quote]

Amen Lot. I thought the brackets were gone, so I went ahead with leveling my PW and having fun. I figured I'd go through the headache of AGrippa after I got my TS leveled and could get my own ores. Now I find out that the brackets weren't removed and my PW is once again screwed out of Agrippa, just like I was before.

Oh well, I guess I'm out of Agrippa until someone pulls Byakhee's head out of his rear-end or I start another PW, neither of which will likely happen for a long time.

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See next Update.

[has been a very long time coming but things needed to be in place first]

 

The easiest route is to do the Token mission.

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See next Update.

[has been a very long time coming but things needed to be in place first]

 

The easiest route is to do the Token mission.

So Agrippa is back to being a"gripe-a" ? So much for reading the forums and thinking it was safe to enjoy the game again.

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Everything is following a plan.

The early hull tied missions are tied to low level content.

 

This means any max level unlock would be tied to high level content.  Suggest you read any future patch notes.

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Everything is following a plan.

The early hull tied missions are tied to low level content.

 

This means any max level unlock would be tied to high level content.  Suggest you read any future patch notes.

I was led to understand, and it made sense and gave me hope that finally the missions could be done without worry of not playing the game due to the level caps.  "Don't do this mission as it could pop you over the cap requirement" Oops I killed one too many mobs and now I combated my way out of Agrippa.   ALL the locks were being removed, and when encountered (the ones that had not been removed) we were to inform the devs for removal as it was said your style was at the most flattering "convoluted" that some may have been missed.  

 

Are you putting those back in game? How messed up is this going to be? Updates of updates to roll back the removed caps?

 

Now that we are live should we start our characters over if we want to partake in these missions? 

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Oh goody...screwed again. *sigh*

 

So my PP did the comps and ammo at L51 and allocated points to do so....

Did the non-agrippa reactor/shield stuff at right levels....

Then shelved the PP until I could stock up on the ores for more laminates and preped authorizations (finding out they are nonstorable now :/) so got crimped on continuing with 4 slots taken up with those (yes those had the less than 200% quality bug in them..even though they were a FORM not a gear/item)

Got the ores, and built a bunch of laminates.

Then halted, knowing I was going to need devices/shield from a PS.

 

Was then assured by no less than 3 Devs that the HU blocks were removed, just the minimum was in place (L50 HU with build L3 and a token(s))....after repeated interigations they conceeded that the L135 "might" still be in place..best not to go past that for the time being.

 

So joy of joys, I could have some fun with my PP for a change! A little boom boom, a little tinker and build, a little trade and explore...wheeee! Hey PPs COULD be fun when they didn't have to mothball or huddle in fear of passing some threshold! Cool!

 

Blew past 75...cool I remember when I had to halt before waiting for a PW/PS to catch up and not pass 100...bye bye 75! Bring on the 100HU!

 

Rolled over 100HU...that was refreshing! KK slow down a little, don't get all rushed and hit 135....coasting...coasting...K STOP! 128 is pretty good..got the SP stored up for those skill boosts...under 135..right right,,got those ores for more lammies and authorizations and token..we cookikgn now...time to visit NV and rip out the stage II....Huh..what!?!

 

WTF?!! there are now HU restrictions after all!!! @##%&%^& didn't I go through this crap during beta? leveled over a threshold 32 hrs. before they changed it and got locked out of content for that? Oh god...why bother? So now I'm once again F'ed over for recipes and rewards :(

 I've done the hard work of getting to 128, and starting the agrippa..but now I'm broken for the content *sigh*

I have to sign on with Lot.

 

1.Have a minimum level to take the missions..fine.

2,Have a minimum level to build skills to do missions..also fine.

3.Even have a HU RANGE that is well announced and explained...a little less fine, but not a breaker. (I.E. here is minimum, do everything before you take max HU, after you take max no going back in talk tree, have a mission check so you don't accidently go over)

4.Have a MAX HU cap, once again well announced and explained..doable. ( i.e. you sure you want to HU? it looks like you didn't do x,y and z. still yes? ok)

 

But for the love of god, if you aren't going to do 1-4 then at least have a method for hull regression. Don't make us do like someone else said "start 2 of ea toon" , 1 to do the painful, convoluted crap and one to ENJOY the game. Don't make us kill a toon and start from scratch just so we can go back and "do it right" to get that nit picky stuff in the right order and the right time.

 

Please explain WHY you are so wedded to that content  being tiered in the HU brackets.

You have to date, only had 1 excuse that "might" be valid, that is, you want it to be a challenge for them when testing things, that if they are well over that level it will be to easy for them, since they will have greater skiils/gear.

 

But consider, who is testing it? The PW..o.k., maybe THEY should be locked into a certain level for the TEST, but what VALID reason could  actual builders being locked in be? So you got to hunt up a PW at the appropriate level to test your gear, I can see that. But what advantage is the builder gaining being locked in? none. At the very worst a PP/PS will have to start a test PW if they can't get another player that meets the criteria, but locking the builders in they can't go back, at least that PW going forward will be useful and don't have to be killed off.

 

Becuase of this sillyness, you have a artificial shortage of high end progen builders in the player base,  either they are slogging through the agrippa stuff, paranoid they will go over some threshold and mothballing repeatedly or they are waiting on other players to slog through it, so they can get the interdependant stuff they need to do so themselves.

 

Progen used to be fun.

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