Ryle

Guild - Omega Corps Founder - Ryle (In EMU, if the former leaders ever come back they can have it.)   All toons in guild are my alts so it should be obvious theres no one else to appoint.  Thanks for this change Zack it should help a lot of problems.

I have created this guild for Live in case anyone wants to reform it. I am currently the leader, but it is really for my unguilded toon that I wanted to run solo with. If any of the former guild officers would like to take it over, and run with it as a serious guild, let me know. Otherwise I will keep the tag for sentimental purposes. Just PM me in game or here if youre say XT, Skydude, Cookoo, Iam or any of the other actual guild leaders, I will gladly turn it over to you. Thanks guys.

As long as no money is being made, EA is unlikely to waste the time. Thats even assuming they remember the IP they abandoned over ten years ago.

Thats good news. I doubt anyones gonna mind. For all intents and purposes this is an open beta.

Test format: Jenquai Explorer with Made to Live, Devastating Gaze, Glare of Devastation. All beams have a Critical Hit buff (31, 29, and 25, respectively) This should equate to approximately a 1 in 4 or 1 in 3 critical hit chance with each shot fired. For each test, I unequipped all but the beam used for the test. 1 at a time. Test 1: 200% Made to Live - fired 100 shots with it at Chavez in Glenn. Results: 0/100 were critical Hits. Test 2: 200% Devastating Gaze - Fired 100 shots with it at Chavez in Glenn. Results: 2/100 were critical Hits. Test 3: 102% Glare of Devastation - Fired 100 shots with it at Chavez in Glenn. Results: 2/100 were critical hits. Conclusion: Every profession has a tiny chance to crit even without the skill, but the expected rate of crits from 25-30% equipped critical are not panning. Equipped crit is not applying.

[quote name='Zackman' timestamp='1346664690' post='62795'] HDC is reducing damage for 72% at tier 7, that is a [b]HUGE[/b] damage reduction. [/quote] And 66.66 at tier 5 for 11 less skillpoints. Still a huge damage reduction at half the cost. Those last two dots need something to make them attractive. 6 percent for 11 points? Come on.

Overpowered? Are you serious? Name me a single other skill in the game, anywhere, that has the point cost HDC does that gives such small returns on the last two dots. Legit. Recharge shields doubles twice, hullpatch doubles twice, psi shield doubles twice, repair equipment doubles twice. everything goes up by insane multipliers past skill level 5. look at group cloak. cloaking 6 ships at once. You dont follow the logic? PWs do not exactly have a lot of skillpoints to spare, in fact they are the profession with the most required points to max everyhing. And their biggest skillpoint sinks diminish return?

Im really hoping they do, because its a ridiculous thing to give the one thing that makes a PW tank an edge on a TE something that costs so much and returns so little. I meant even TE rally gives more deflects and so on than PW Trance. There is no item out there that can raise trance only buffs to 50 like the Shark fin does for rally. It just seems so... messed up. When I found out why HDC wasnt working the way I remember it, I was shocked to see just how bad the PW skills really are at the highest tiers. Basically the way a TE is set up atm, they can do anything a PW can without an Ivory Ward, an extra device slot, and one less gun, with 2k more range and more speed.

So make it applyable to anyone, doesnt matter to me. Im just trying to avoid the potential nightmare of adding an activatable to a passive skill. Can they even do that?

[quote name='Mynd' timestamp='1346634353' post='62769'] As in a "friendly" type buff that can be placed on fellow players like the enviro shield, psi shield, and rally for example? I was looking at the skill list for the PW and did notice that it was lacking a helpful class skill buff like the other classes have. I think it would be interesting if they had a skill buff that gave a friendly target (player chars) some added hdc protection. Just my two cents anyway. [/quote] Yeah thats kinda where I was going with that. Tier 6 = 225 personal HDC as written, and adds the ability to buff (actively or passively) group members with 10% HDC, this would be in addition to the default group bonus Tier 7 = 250 personal HDC as written, and adds the ability to buff (actively or passively) group members with 25% HDC, this would be in addition to the default group bonus

Breakdown: No HDC Skill = 100 percent of damage taken Tier 1 (no point invested, just the mission/skill trained): 100% HDC. Damage/(1+1) = 50% Damage taken. (0 points = 50 percent damage decrease) Tier 2 (1 point invested so far): 125% HDC. Damage/(1+1.25)= 44.44% Damage taken (1 point = 5.5% additional) Tier 3 (2 points, 3 total invested): 150% HDC Damage/(1+1.5)= 40% Damage taken (2 points = 4.5% additional) Tier 4 (3 points, 6 total invested): 175% HDC Damage/(1+1.75) = 36.36% Damage taken (3 points = 3.5% additional) Tier 5 (4 points, 10 total invested): 200% HDC Damage/(1+2) = 33.33% Damage taken (4 points = 3% additional) - TE Stops here- Now for PW: Tier 6 (5 points, 15 total invested) 225% HDC Damage/(1+2.25) = 30.77% Damage taken (5 points = 2.5% additional) - WTF? Tier 7 (6 points, 21 total invested) 250% HDC Damage/(1+2.50) = 28.57% Damage taken (6 points = 2.2% additional) - WTF? So for 21 skillpoints, youre only getting 4.7% more protection than a TE with 10 points invested. Something needs added.

Yes I know, but im talking about a group enhancement for investing those points. I cant think of a single tier 7 skill that gives less return than its level 1 counterpart.

While I dont think theres any further gripe about amounts or how the damage reduction is being calculated (sounds to me like its gonna be fixed nicely), i am a bit concerned about this: If a PW invests 11 points to get to HDC7 over HDC5, the return is about 6 percent additional damage reduction. The lower tiers of the skill give more return than the higher. Can anything be added to Tier 6 and 7 to offset this severe diminishing return formula. As it stands, its practically a waste of skillpoints going over 5 Perhaps a group bonus, 10% HDC to all group members at 6, 25 at 7. Will not stack with another PW, and is additive to equip buffs and any existing group bonus. Honestly I am considering call forwarding my HDC skill on Ryle and using those extra 11 points elsewhere, because thats such a small return for the investment.

So using your formula, my 60 percent mitigation on 150 HDC is correct then. I just went about it in a weird way. Damage / 1 + 1.5 = 40% I wish we had access to a raw log of how damages and deflects are calculating, because those numbers coming up off the shieldbars are grossly misleading then. Looking at them, it almost seems like deflects are weighted twice as heavily as HDC is, and to me that seems way skewed since for a TE its a 10 SP investment and 21 for a PW Wow, using your formula At tier 6 HDC for a PW = 30.76% Damage At tier 7 HDC for a PW = 28.6 % Damage Six skill points for a 2 percent damage decrease? And 11 skill points for about 6% more then a TE gets. ... That seems really messed up.

According to a numbers crunch in a thread seen here [url="https://forum.enb-emulator.com/index.php?/topic/7431-hull-patch-overpowered/page__st__40"]https://forum.enb-emu...ed/page__st__40[/url] between myself and Zackman, Ive come to the conclusion that how it is advertised to work, and how it is actually working, are not matching. Zackmans math came to the conclusion that HDC of 150 should yield a 75% reduction, and my math came to the conclusion that it should yield 60% However, in some raw damage tests testing the 200% skill based tier 5 HDC of the Terran Enforcer class, I was getting damage numbers of 80(-41) with 0 deflects which tells me that at 200 HDC alone a TE is only receiving a 33 percent reduction in hull damage sustained. This is less than half of what Zack calculated for an even lower percent of HDC (I was actually testing whether the bastion shield added to it, which it did not, confirming it is in fact broken, but in the meantime I stumbled across this as well) On further testing I determined that with deflects of 50, damage becomes something more like 50(-100) which would be a 66 percent decrease in damage sustained (deflects count for 50, so with both deflects and 200% HDC, youre only getting about a 16% return on an advertised 200% skill, which shouldnt that be more like half of half of half for an 82.5% overall reduction, deflects plus HDC?) Id suggest a look at the HDC skill and how it is calculated, because according to what I am testing, it is not coming out anywhere near what it has been advertised to be doing.

On second looking at my screens on JamesKirk... does 80(-41) mean that the attack was 121, 41 was mitigated, so 80 was applied? If so, 200 percent HDC by itself is only yielding a 33% Mitigation, thats way off what we both calculated even 150 to be (60 and 75 me and zack) Kirk should have been taking more like 41(-80) on those attacks, and with rally at 50 deflects that number should drop to 20(-100) or something Yeah these numbers arent right at all. HDC is broken even in the skills if I was taking 80 damage to my hull on an attack of 121

Its quite possible zack, I just am checking math. I mean it makes sense until it goes above 100 percent in skills. Thats half damage, i think we all get that. But whats 200? A third? A half of a half? Would 300 then be an eighth? Im confused lol

Incidentally, I just went back with my TE now, who also has a bastion, and has 200 percent from skill for effective 350? or so youd think, and im seeing numbers like 200(100) on damage. Which is telling me the 200 is working (im mitigating 2/3 of the incoming damage which is close to both our numbers of 60 and 75), but the bastion isnt working there either. I am gonna switch shields and edit this post to see if the numbers change with a non HDC shield equipped. Confirmed: Numbers again in the 66(33) format, which tells me the bastions HDC on equip is not working, even for a profession with the HDC skill. Screens to be added once i upload them to Imgur. [url="http://imgur.com/a/fiXD3"]http://imgur.com/a/fiXD3[/url]

[quote name='Zackman' timestamp='1346582653' post='62707'] Sure, post them if you dont charge for them [/quote] [url="http://imgur.com/a/BGrQP"]http://imgur.com/a/BGrQP[/url]

Base hull: 82000 a 250% increase would be 82000 + 82000 (100)+ 82000 (100) + 41000 (50) Giving an effective hull of 287,000 So if youre going to shoot at the hull, think of it as actually being 287,000 points in the math for calculating the damage sustained in HDC. If you got shot for 10,000 points, subtract that from the "effective hull" 287.000-10000=277000 which would be your raw damage before reducing this number back to actual displayed figure. Which would be done by taking the 3.5 increase effective back out. 277000/3.5 = 79,143. So out of that 10k hit, you actually took about 2850 damage.

And yeah im bad with how i format my math. Basically im increasing the hull, taking the damage out, then re-reducing the hull. Probably an awkward step but its how i look at it. In reality your number would actually come out more favorably than mine. Since mine would show on a 150 HDC a damage reduction of 60% However, how will your formula account for HDC percents over 200 without reducing entirely to 0? It is possible (with a bastion working correctly) to get 400% HDC on a PW, and 350% on a TE. PW Skill 7 = 250. TE skill 5 = 200. Bastion = 150

I have the three or four screenshots showing: My deflects at 0. The invincible bastion equipped on my TT which has no inherent HDC skill Me taking unmitigated shield damage Me taking unmitigated hull damage in the format 0 (-138) as an example. Do you want the screens?

I will go test it right now. give me like 5-10 minutes to get a screen (gonna have to let the chavez beat me down first)

Ok we will use 10,000 as the hit. Its a nice even number and large enough for our purposes. Hull Damage Control is a percent based increase to the amount of resistance a hull can withstand. It stacks with any deflects a player already has. If a player with no HDC or Deflects takes a hit for 10k damage, that is what will be applied. Reduce hull by 10000 points If a player with no HDC but 50 Deflects take a hit for 10k damage, apply 50 percent of the number. Reduce hull by 5000 points. We all know that one, thats working correctly. What is NOT working... Before deflects even come into play on that hull hit... if a player has an item that gives say 150% Hull Damage Control (Made to Live beam, Invincible Bastion shield, etc) their hull damage should be calculated thus: 100 percent doubles. So if you have 150, you need to add the base hull to itself and half again, thusly - 50000 + 50000 + 25000 = effective 125000 hull now. So, you take the incoming damage... 125000 - 10000 = 115000 and divide back out the 2.5 = 46000 So after HDC the hull took actually 4000 damage. Are you following me here? Then, youd apply deflects of 50 (assuming they have them for that damage type) further reducting the damage actually sustained to 2000. So after that hit for 10k on a hull with 150% HDC and 50 deflects, their hull should read 48000 For an actual tank profession, such as PW, with inherent skill (PWs get 200% built in (triple), and can equip items to increase it to 350 (quadruple and a half) like with the bastion shield) What that actually does is take 82000 * 4.5 = 369,000. So 369000 - 10000 = 359000/4.5 = 79,777 repeating, lets just round it to 79,778. So 82000 - 79778 = 2,222 actual post HDC damage, which would then be presumably reduced again by half via deflect to 1,111 actual damage, set hull to 80,889 Do you see the problem? We are taking a ton more damage than we should be to hulls to begin with. Equipment damage I have no idea how it worked properly, but I know that if you went down on hull, your equipment would start taking damage at a certain point, usually after the halfway mark. This was why we all equipped items that reduced that too. In fact some items listed like 300% Equipment damage control. I remember having an archos equipped basically guaranteed a PW would never lose a percent on his weapons. It only ever happened to me one time in live, for 1 percent, on 1 gun, ever.