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Letting Traders And Explorers Wander Further Afield

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In response to a plea for bugs and suggestions,
[quote name='Terrell' timestamp='1338516831' post='58424']
Some of mine that I started threads on in the past....
(snip)
[url="https://forum.enb-emulator.com/index.php?/topic/5504-traders-explorers/page__hl__%2Btraders+%2Band+%2Bexplorers__fromsearch__1"]Traders & Explorers.[/url]
(snip)
[/quote]

A lot of the suggestions in the above thread were pretty specific, and seemed to start from existing tech and habits. Once comment really stood out, about how there was little to do with the Trader and Explorer skills except to follow a couple well-worn paths. The suggestions didn't wander far off those paths, either. Some hashed over content from Live that was enjoyable, others were for 'bigger, better' versions of current things.

Here's a challenge:

Starting with the skills for Traders and Explorers, can we come up with some off-the-wall, unusual ways that we could use those skills? Stuff you've seen in other computer games, board games, real life?
Things that would really scratch the 'trader' itch or the 'explorer' itch (as opposed to the power-levelling or grinding itch).

For example:
Explorers in real life were out to discover, and to achieve fame. I grew up with a copy of "In Darkest Africa" by Stanley of "Dr. Livingston, I presume." fame, on the family bookshelves. It had a wonderful map of Africa, with the center covered in a featureless green forest, crossed by one lone blue river (Stanley's path up the Congo). Exploration led to adventure, to things no one had ever seen; strange and wondrous animals, plants, natural wonders, peoples, and even lost civilizations!
How can we put something like [i]that [/i]into the game, besides adding reams of new content? Something that used Explorers Navigation, Scanning, or Prospecting skills?

EVE Online's wormholes were supposed to do this, but ended up (at least to me) fairly routine and predictable. The only thing I've seen that's come close were the monthly updates in Asheron's Call (they deliberately left a lot of story-related stuff out of the patch notes), and that was adding reams of new content. People would wander around looking for new things, and race to post the first descriptions and screenshots of the newly-discovered content.

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A rough sketch of something that just came to me. Feel free to modify or toss it.

Note: Credit can mean fame and/or reward ($, faction, items, etc.)

Explorers discover unknown places. Once discovered they are no longer unknown in that only the first explorer to discover an unknown place gets credit for the discovery.

An explorer can discover unknown places by chance and also by following clues. A chance discovery happens when an explorer moves to within x distance from the place. Clues in the form of tablets could be obtained from loot. Only explorers can read these tablets. To other professions the inscriptions look like giberish (an opprotunity for trade).

Once an explorer discovers a new place all clues are deleted and the place will only function for a trader. The first trader to go there gets trade credit. Now the place will only function for a warrior and the first one that goes there gets credit if he/she survives (allows for diplomacy or combat).

Once an unknown places has been visited by all three professions it disappears.

A possible change would be that a place would randomly accept just an explorer or just an explorer and a trader or all three professions.
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That is one of the coolest concepts ive heard in a while here Redoc, and to expand upon it, perhaps new and unknown items off of new and unknown creatures could spawn at those places. Maybe questlines or even something like a treasure map puzzle. One piece from each of the 3 major profession types, with a nice reward of maybe one item per person or something once figured out.

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Without adding reams of content, you could have it as a mission line "In search of the anchients....." a npc gives you a small hint that you need to look in x sector...(nothing more than that) and it proceeds from there, say like redocs idea, a explorer finds "it", then the explorer leads a trader to "it", the trader builds something that interacts with "it", when activating it needs a warrior to clear out "its" vicinity to gather the research on ancients tech. Then they all return to the Npc to get xp and/or item rewards.

This could be have a ever increasing difficulty factored in with greater rewards, the next hint from the npc could be instead of sector be a system, as the harder area find progresses so to would the rewards and the trader/warrior experience. This would lead to "bid" rights to what the explorer found or the item build of the trader etc. to have access to the content and exponentially increased rewards the explorer could auction off the location (they going to have to take the other players there to advance the deed, so there isn't a ability to pouch from them) then the trader would have to have A. the explorer in tow, and the item build to advance their portion of the deed (thus nobody can pouch that part) then the warrior is going to need A. the explorer, B.the trader and the item to spawn (very little chance anyone can then KS the resultant mobs if you need both the other players, and the location (hopefully well off the beaten path)).

I would suggest a pick of AA devices as the ultimate reward, the results of their persual of ancient tech, when they reach some threshold of research a possible waypoint token like the one from live that let the zip back to DT, that lets them zip back somewere else. This should be totally repeatable but drawn out so there isnt a sudden flood of AA devices.

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This looks interesting! I particularly like adding stages to it for Trader and Warrior. Thanks, Redoc!

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[quote name='Mattsacre' timestamp='1338652560' post='58457']
[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]This would lead to "bid" rights to what the explorer found or the item build of the trader etc. to have access to the content and exponentially increased rewards the explorer could auction off the location [/font][/color]
[/quote]

This, IMO would lead to the same old problem that exists in most MMO's. The greed factor. Which in turn, would take all the fun out of it for most. But other than that, I think Redoc's idea is fantastic. The de-spawning of the completed adventure is genius! [i][b]GALI[/b][/i]

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Lol "greed factor", define reward, define currency. What is valuable to one person may be not so or even worthless to another, what would the explorer be offering up for bid and what would the explorer want in exchange?

One explorer might want just to be in the mix of trade/combat and want to complete the whole thing rapidly so they can repeat or tier up....did you notice that "repeatable" thing?

Another explorer might be a multiboxer and get his alts in on it.

Another explorer might be a guilder and want to get in on some guildy time.

Maybe the explorer needs help with some other mission that they can do alone and might take "bids" for this missions access for help in the other.

And yes there might be a "greedy" explorer that might need either credits....or gear....or Epeen status....or whatever they can get in barter for the information they "explored" for, information is power.

Since when is bartering a BAD thing? Since when does commerce have to "take the fun out of it"? When was the last time you divided tasks/chores with a family member/spouse...did you know that you was being "greedy" and engaging in commerce?

When the pilgrims bought Long Island from the indians for a chest full of beads and trinkets, who got ripped off and taken advantage of? Our current public ejimication system insists that those greedy, mean, unscupilous european immigrants took advantage of poor, abused, uneducated american indians. You know what? BOTH parties went away from the deal thinking SUCKER! :)

Despite our poor public education's propaganda apparati lies, the truth was those "poor victim indians" used those trinkets to reward and barter with other tribes to gain power and presige, and those european settlers didn't manage to make a successful go of settling long island, that came much later on, now there are retards who rewrite history that want to give back long island to the multigenerations-later-decendants of those indians! Now that the decendants of the european's have worked, bled and sweated to make it what it is today and those indians forefathers have long since died after having "squandered" those trinkets (I'm sure they didn't see it that way, they used them to make alliances).

So to sum up: GREED is VERY subjective, it is very closely linked with jealosy, you-have-what-I-want-and-I-don't-think-you-should-have-it-and-if-you-don't-then-you-are-a-bad-and-greedy-meany! GIMME!

Its games with rampant auction houses and artifically supported economies that may have soured you to rampant greed, I'm NOT arguing that greed doesn't exist by any means lol.

But to say that party A has a resource they worked hard to aquire, and is willing to barter with party B to aquire a resource they in turn have worked hard to aquire, and come out to a mutually agreeable accomidation for exchange is GREED, then I have to disagree, that commerce. Every day you go to work, or buy groceries, nearly every day you breath, is some form of commerce.

After all this don't take this as a flame :) I've been burned out on other MMO over greed also *looks at WoW,EvE, just about anything EA touchs with a sideways glance* I may have used the work "BID" poorly, bid means anything both parties may find of value to themselves. That may even include just a little chat time or even a thank you.
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[quote name='Mattsacre' timestamp='1338652560' post='58457']
Without adding reams of content, you could have it as a mission line "In search of the anchients....." a npc gives you a small hint that you need to look in x sector...(nothing more than that) and it proceeds from there, say like redocs idea, a explorer finds "it", then the explorer leads a trader to "it", the trader builds something that interacts with "it", when activating it needs a warrior to clear out "its" vicinity to gather the research on ancients tech. Then they all return to the Npc to get xp and/or item rewards.

This could be have a ever increasing difficulty factored in with greater rewards, the next hint from the npc could be instead of sector be a system, as the harder area find progresses so to would the rewards and the trader/warrior experience. This would lead to "bid" rights to what the explorer found or the item build of the trader etc. to have access to the content and exponentially increased rewards the explorer could auction off the location (they going to have to take the other players there to advance the deed, so there isn't a ability to pouch from them) then the trader would have to have A. the explorer in tow, and the item build to advance their portion of the deed (thus nobody can pouch that part) then the warrior is going to need A. the explorer, B.the trader and the item to spawn (very little chance anyone can then KS the resultant mobs if you need both the other players, and the location (hopefully well off the beaten path)).

I would suggest a pick of AA devices as the ultimate reward, the results of their persual of ancient tech, when they reach some threshold of research a possible waypoint token like the one from live that let the zip back to DT, that lets them zip back somewere else. This should be totally repeatable but drawn out so there isnt a sudden flood of AA devices.
[/quote]

Had something of the same thought in the past - https://forum.enb-emulator.com/index.php?/topic/4347-change-explore-jobs-to-spawn-small-deadlive-hulk-fields/page__fromsearch__1. Great minds, eh? :)

The last post is by Tienbau, and he didn't think it would be too hard to do.

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idea sounds great how about taking the newly explored area a step further, for a starbase to be in the sector all races must have a mission specific to the race and all races must bring ores and parts together to build the station. also could have a small supply platform like kitara veil trader, of course this must also be built by players plus have a ton of new ideas for future expansion for new sectors. this could dynamically become the first live sector to need items and trade to function. How about forming a team to bring these ideas forward to devs. let the game become dynamic in the new frontiers
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Missions to finish antares 1 and the sector gate under construction there, for example

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How about an item floating in space near a Asteroid field that Only a Explorer can see and when its pulled into the hold or mined it has some numbers and letters on it ie.. SE105.32,21.90,0.23
When some ore or Artifact is traded to a trader and build terminal annlized another item appears with a second set of numbers, treasure hunt scavenger hunt begins and or new Character builds insue.
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all the idea's sound great but take it a step further .how about a new race is discovered they have a star base but need help with supplies and defensive of there base/ planet from hostile mobs and as u gain faction , u get acess to there technology.then eventually maybe have a raid to defeat an ancient enemy. i know that would be a lot of content to ad but its a thougtht.

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[quote name='sgozzer1' timestamp='1341085167' post='59919']
all the idea's sound great but take it a step further .how about a new race is discovered they have a star base but need help with supplies and defensive of there base/ planet from hostile mobs and as u gain faction , u get acess to there technology.then eventually maybe have a raid to defeat an ancient enemy. i know that would be a lot of content to ad but its a thougtht.
[/quote]

Pretty good idea, particularly for the long term of the Emulator. Something to do after the V'rix.
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[quote name='Phorlaug' timestamp='1338920824' post='58498']
How about an item floating in space near a Asteroid field that Only a Explorer can see and when its pulled into the hold or mined it has some numbers and letters on it ie.. SE105.32,21.90,0.23
When some ore or Artifact is traded to a trader and build terminal annlized another item appears with a second set of numbers, treasure hunt scavenger hunt begins and or new Character builds insue.
[/quote]


Great ideas all, the concept of utilizing skills from all the classes makes it even more interesting (read fun). The scavenger hunt angle, coupled with working together toward a common goal ought to make it a very popular feature. The only things I encountered over the years when doing chain quests/missions that was problematic for me was when taking me through different sectors/zones many times cause numerous toon deaths. Having to work as a group would possibly negate the problem of lowbies travelling through high level areas, the only other issue for me was that sometimes the chains were just so friggin long that I found myself throwing my hands in the air and sometimes just deleting the quest/mission. The carrot was not worth the length of the stick in other words... :P

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This link I found here is pretty relevant to the overall theme of this thread. In "live" the devs implemented "random" wormholes ingame, and a quest or mission of sorts involving Dr. Anita Roniday, the bogeril, and of course the mysterious, random "Green Fire" portal/wormholes.

http://web.archive.org/web/20041015073406/http://ebportal.com/forum/topic/49/9937

This is what the Green Fire portal/wormhole looked like:

[URL=http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/12/greenfire2.jpg/][IMG]http://img12.imageshack.us/img12/7473/greenfire2.jpg[/IMG][/URL]

Uploaded with [URL=http://imageshack.us]ImageShack.us[/URL]

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Outer space weather effects in random sectors: sunspot activity, ion storms, nebula shield havoc, time-space speed buffs/debuffs,wandering wormholes,meteor showers, rogue comets (minable), chat-garbling radiations (think getting drunk and then chatting), rogue energy waves of Energy/Plasma/EMP, just suggest a few....

Pakkrat

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Planetside weather effects: Struck By Lightning, Magma pyroclast spoutstrikes, high winds, low visibility storms, tornadoes, hazardous looted (hulks or mined 'roids) substances, Trapped On Planet (short duration gate failures), again to name a few.

Pakkrat Edited by Pakkrat

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[size=4]There I was happily mining my own business and this Ring Singularity appeared in front of me, being an Explorer of course I had to enter it[/size]

[size=4]I popped out into this unknown sector ( universe, uncharted map(s) ) ( ? marks on map ) and was pulled towards the planet that was on my screen (no choice)[/size]
[size=4]I received a gargled transmission just as I entered the area and tried to decode it until my ship entered the atmosphere and it was gone (flashing message icon) as I pulled up just short of hitting the landmass (gated to planet)[/size]
[size=4]This planet was huge and following a long line of nav markers, some were dead ends and had to go back avoiding the mobs (cloak is my friend) I came across a derlic station that was operated(controlled)[/size]
[size=4]by a Mechaniod (BIG UGLY Machine on docking bay aggro but not hostile as we cannot communicate)[/size]
[size=4]I was given a device and after printing it, I was able to understand the laungage the Mechaniod was using (insert storyline here)(allows player to understand first message that is the flashing icon, which is continue in sector/map/universe or return from where I just came from)[/size]
[size=4]I was given tasks to complete which gave me access to untold riches to mine (insert different ideas for different races) with the special equipment I was able to discover, the first one I understood was a null gravity generator which allowed my ship to leave the planet[/size]
[size=4]Following the nav points it became clear from the hulks ( very small chance of looting usable items) there was a massive battle and some of the remote controlled ships were still active but rouge[/size]
[size=4]BUT no idea who the attackers were/are. The Mechaniod wants to know as well [/size][size=4](insert missions to find items or infomation for the mechaniod with rewards)[/size]
[size=4]I was given a key to activate when I wished, after completing a very hazardous mission which allows me to warp back to normal space at any time (But not back to Mechaniod Sector/map/universe as it is random)[/size]

[size=4]This idea could be added to include different classes to complete tasks, so a player might be required to stay in area, with no communication to outside only in sector/map/universe[/size]

[size=4]Just an idea[/size]
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[quote]"EVE Online's wormholes were supposed to do this, but ended up (at least to me) fairly routine and predictable. The only thing I've seen that's come close were the monthly updates in Asheron's Call (they deliberately left a lot of story-related stuff out of the patch notes), and that was adding reams of new content. People would wander around looking for new things, and race to post the first descriptions and screenshots of the newly-discovered content."[/quote]


I like this idea leave out stuff of patch notes and let us figure em out o.O :)

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I think CCP has done a great job with their exploration system. It would be nice to see something along the lines of escalations in EVE included at some point.

Start the chain with a random loot item or a discovered anomaly.
Complete a task (light combat, mining, scanning) and collect a hint for the next location.
Find the next anomaly and breadcrumb.
Each step builds up to the final escalation.

Rewards could vary from loot only comps to rare non-trade gear designed for explorers. This could be expanded to each of the class archetypes: heavy combat for warriors and trade/building for traders. The goal would be to get players out and see the systems by adding some dynamic content without the repetitiveness of jobs. I don't know how flexible the engine is though.
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