If Pvp Were Added - How To Make It Fun For All

[Riz]

[quote name='Phorlaug' timestamp='1336712796' post='57682']
...PvP was in Earth and Beyond, for the life of me I can't remember if it was there from beta to day 1
But it was there definitely long before the Vrix...[/quote]

It came in a patch or two after the game went retail.

[Vitaes]

Arena PvP is almost a joke. That limited space does not allow for certain crowd control skills to be utilized effectively and puts those who like to dodge and shoot from a distance at a disadvantage. As for making the levels somewhat even, very hard to do, and maybe not desirerable overall. If a CL 33, OL110 PP wants to fight a OL 150 JE, why not?

[Algaron [BTL]]

I agree, the Arena is rather small for decent PvP, however it would work fine for Guild vs Guild Tournaments as well as 1v1 or 3v3 or whatever will be decided for the setup.The optimal solution as I have stated before is to just have a pvp flag you can enable and be able to PvP anywhere against another PvP toon. Some are concerned that people will camp outside the noob sector and kill noobs as they gate, and there are some who believe that you can't have some L150 Jenquai Explorer attack a L110 PP because that would be unfair. So the suggestion was too only let L150 toons be able to activate PvP.

[naso]

okay 2 things one this pic ... lol 2 pvp great idea put arenas in make them bigger no silly games just str8 gate to random spot 1 min till pvp enabled till u gate out . (makeing it so u tow to random spot or back to station would be cool ) . the flag idea also works . but nothing is moron proof someone will complain that they didnt know they turned flag on and got killed . but thats there problem . also i dont think there was xp debt from pvp and should stay that way . it would be cool for guilds to enable pvp with eachother both sides agreeing and 150+ toons will be pvp enabled. lots of cool stuff can be done but right now just open an arena and make it bigger than it was . dont need anything erlse but abilty to shoot the other guy . simple ez and its in theres something to do besides fb mordy gobb controller and its differnt every time .

[Vitaes]

[quote name='Algaron' timestamp='1336770166' post='57722']
I agree, the Arena is rather small for decent PvP, however it would work fine for Guild vs Guild Tournaments as well as 1v1 or 3v3 or whatever will be decided for the setup.The optimal solution as I have stated before is to just have a pvp flag you can enable and be able to PvP anywhere against another PvP toon. Some are concerned that people will camp outside the noob sector and kill noobs as they gate, and there are some who believe that you can't have some L150 Jenquai Explorer attack a L110 PP because that would be unfair. So the suggestion was too only let L150 toons be able to activate PvP.
[/quote]

Actually, it may be the 110 PP attacking the 150 JE.

[Mattsacre]

I have mentioned this all before but is worth repeating. Certain conditions and rules must be met before anyone can PvP in an open sector.

1. Players needs to be L150. (There will be no situation where a CL50 toon will ever be able to attack a lower level player)
2. All players must enable PvP to be in PvP mode. (Players will not be forced into participating in PvP, it's at the Players discretion)
3. Disengaging PvP will trigger a cooldown timer. I have suggested 5-30mins, once PvP is disengaged it can not be activated again until the cooldown completes.
(Players will not be able to attack other players and then switch off their flag to avoid retribution.)
4. No damage to equipment or XP debt will be incurred because of a loss in a PvP battle.

(took from Algaron's huge post)

5. AWAY FROM HIGH TRAFFICKED AREAS, I.E. NOT JUST OUTSIDE A STATION, NOT AT A GATE, NOT AT MISSION MOB NODES, NOT AT HIGH TRAVELED NAV MARKERS.

Why you ask? LAG and DC's for one. Overlapping for two, (like when you exit a station at same spot as 4 other players) can be REAL confusing to exit/gate and see gobs of firepower heading your way, not fair to nonpvpers to have that heart stopper , Or pvpers trying to retarget out of a stack noncombatants after losing a target lock for three.

6.PVP COOLDOWN TIMER PERSISTS THROUGH CLOAK. Why you ask? A JD in PVP mode gets to decimate someone from cloak/gank, then wait out the PVP timer in cloak so the other PvPer don't get a counter attack? Thats just wimpy, If they got into PvP and fought, they should take the chance they get counter attacked, either from the player they did/didn't conquer or other pvpers.

7.NONCOMBATANTS HAVE A CLEAR WARNING THAT BUFFING/HEALING PVPERS WILL ENTER THEM IN A FLAGGED FOR PVP STATE.
Why? Long ago when I was playing WoW and wasn't savvy to the flagging rules, I came apon a fellow faction in a near death state while I was questing, not seeing his cloaked enemy/pvp target (and understanding the pvp flag system) I healed him, there was NO warning that I was now a potential victim, I was promptly murdered for my kindness. And then the jackass camped my corpse, when I rezzed he promptly murdered me again, once again, I not knowing the rules, didn't know I had to sit around the corpse and twiddle my thimbs for 10 minutes to exit a flagged state, that even though I was dead from doing a good deed, my death didn't exit me from further harrassment and griefing action.

If they are to enter a flagged state from buffing then it needs to be a THIS WILL HAPPEN IF YOU DO THAT prompt with a Y/N response needed before activation, and I would argue that death=exit flag state and reactivation of flagged state required to prevent griefers, remember..if it can be done IT WILL BE DONE by arsehats.

I'm sure I can put my mind to more reasons a SEPERATE area is needed other than these simple 3, do I need to do so?

Oh and the global so and so killed so and so in combat message? No thanks. Make it a PvP channel for EpeenVP. Don't need chat scroll cluttering my already cluttered channels telling me someone rubbed out someone else 4 zones away from me *yawn*...a opt-in channel will suffice, so if and when I engage in PvP, I can click in and out to see results and not have it later when I'm on to other pursuits.

With all this, if there HAS to be PvP and resources devoted to it rather than LIVE state, a seperate enhanced zone gets my vote, NOT flag, flag is open to to much negative impact of PvE experience. Edited May 12, 2012 by Mattsacre

[Algaron [BTL]]

My post doesn't look so huge after reading this one!

But seriously folks. No sorry Matts I have to disagree on rules 5/6/7. In order:

5. You can't really tell players they can't congregate here or there, or just sit outside a station. It's not enforceable for one, and for another I don't see any huge lag/dc issues that would arise from someone being flagged PvP, anymore than if they were a bunch of PvEer's hanging outside F7 Station. You can't segregate people to the back of the bus because they have a certain flag turned on - even if you don't like them.

6.The PvP cooldown timer should persist through cloak.I am not sure I understand what you are asking for here. Is that you want the timer to be extended so if a JD does cloak or a progen does use powerdown, the cooldown will stop so that when they come out of cloak/powerdown the timer picks up where it stopped? Its unworkable as it puts 2 or 3 classes at a distinct disadvantage.


[i][color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]" A JD in PVP mode gets to decimate someone from cloak/gank, then wait out the PVP timer in cloak so the other PvPer don't get a counter attack? Thats just wimpy, If they got into PvP and fought, they should take the chance they get counter attacked, either from the player they did/didn't conquer or other pvpers."[/font][/color][/i]

I noticed you once again picked on JD's That's fine - your true colours are showing. Wimpy or not this is how a Jenquai defender class works - it cloaks. I strongly disagree with your reasoning here. We can't have one set of rules for JD's and another set of rules for everyone else. It has to work based on the class' skill set.
Besides, I am not going to hang around waiting for my PvP cooldown to finish so I can avoid 'retribution' - cloaked or not. If I do wait out PvP cooldown in cloak - well catch me next time. I would probably just warp out of the area - or dock anyway.

7. I am sure it could be possible to make it so that some TT or JT will not enter a flagged state if they happen to heal a Flagged PvPer, but regardless - there will be a tag over the players ship clearly stating PvP. If you disregard the flag, heal anyways and become PvP flagged, well that's your own fault. "Situational awareness my friend".

It would be a learning experience and I bet you never tried to heal a PvP player again while in PvE did you? . We can't code the game to be dummy proof nor should we try. I mean your bad luck with a previous MMO PvP shouldnt be the basis for what the PvP community wants here.

I don't think it's necessary to hold people's hand and with a hand-holding message like "Are you sure? Are you absolutely positive you want to do this? Really??" in order for them to play the game. It's sad really you feel that this is needed. You can't enter PvP if you are not L150 regardless would be my solution - so you won't have a young TT being flagged PvP for trying to heal a PvP player. Again the suggestion was that a player has to type /pvp on to actually engage in PvP.

I was all for open sector PvP for a couple reasons.

1) more area to PvP means less likelyhood of bothering PvE players at all.
2) The resources needed to create this type of PvP would be vastly less that what would be needed to create a separate sector complete with gates /mobs /hulks /stations /npcs
3) Limiting PvP to a small sector takes away so many potential fun things and scenarios for a PvP Player. Including mob involvement, escaping out the area to another sector (fun factor is gone if all I can do is fly around inside a zone, trying to avoid my maker), hulks for explorers (nothing more exciting than trying to gather resources while looking over your shoulder for an attack)

I can understand the reasoning behind wanting to bottle up PvP in some small sector away from the rest of the gaming community, but I think it's shortsighted in the development of the game, there are a lot of ways to make PvP work for everyone and so much potential for it later on as well.

As for Global Messaging for PvP - well that's just a cool option that can be added. I feel it would be more exciting. Perhaps it could be limited to 'Broadcast or Local" channels. I am not a stubborn hardcase and want to work with the PvE players on this, so whatever we can do to make this work would be great.

OK so that's 1 NO for global messaging.

[Vitaes]

I don't think "limiting" PvP to a sector the size of ABA or Ishuan is really limiting. That is a hell of a lot better than an arena. Of course, if you [b]really[/b] want to chase someone from Fenris to Cooper, open sector PvP is the only way to do it...and you might have an anger management issue as well, lol!

[Vitaes]

"7.NONCOMBATANTS HAVE A CLEAR WARNING THAT BUFFING/HEALING PVPERS WILL ENTER THEM IN A FLAGGED FOR PVP STATE.
Why? Long ago when I was playing WoW and wasn't savvy to the flagging rules, I came apon a fellow faction in a near death state while I was questing, not seeing his cloaked enemy/pvp target (and understanding the pvp flag system) I healed him, there was NO warning that I was now a potential victim, I was promptly murdered for my kindness. And then the jackass camped my corpse, when I rezzed he promptly murdered me again, once again, I not knowing the rules, didn't know I had to sit around the corpse and twiddle my thimbs for 10 minutes to exit a flagged state, that even though I was dead from doing a good deed, my death didn't exit me from further harrassment and griefing action."

This is where Asheron's Call got it right. Upon death, you rezzed at a lifestone and were immune to attack for one minute. That was plenty of time to get your ish together, get to a safe place if needed, regroup, rebuff, and get back out there to fight again. Also, they had to put a timer into place that didn't allow people to log out during combat, so wimpy peeps didn't attack, then just log when they found out they were about to get a good butt whipping.

[Algaron [BTL]]

No that's true if you chase someone across 10 sectors - you best seek some medical attention. No I agree with that Vitaes, a large sector isnt really limiting anyone is it, especially if it already contains mobs/hulks/navs etc. I was thinking more of the developers having to add assets in a new closed sector, the time it would take to do such a project and the people hours it would consume. I just figured it would be much easier on the devs - if all they needed to do was add code to enable the pvp flag.

BTW PvEer's - this is merely a discussion of now to make PvP and how to make it fun for all involved (fun for PvE'ers is not having to deal with PvP at all) No one is suggesting this all goes in next patch or anything of the sort. In the words of the great Bartholomew Simpson - "Don't nobody have a cow man!"

[Ryle [N7R]]

[quote name='Vitaes' timestamp='1336855860' post='57777']
I don't think "limiting" PvP to a sector the size of ABA or Ishuan is really limiting. That is a hell of a lot better than an arena. Of course, if you [b]really[/b] want to chase someone from Fenris to Cooper, open sector PvP is the only way to do it...and you might have an anger management issue as well, lol!
[/quote]

I will chase him from Fenris to Cooper to Endriago and back before I give him up. Tally Ho!

[Mattsacre]

My point and thought on the pop up for 'do you want to buff player X" was taking AREA HEAL and other AoE skills, hardly seems fair for you to pop a area heal and have a PvPer in the effect range and open you up for PvP if you weren't even seeking it or flagging for it. You might have been buffing just your group and trip the flag etc. A pop up either specificly allowing you to exlude pvpers in range, or at least give you a heads up that it might happen is called for...if you said "yes" and get flagged...well you was warned......

My thought on the JD (and it was't a bias..got one and play him btw ) is it s SO cheezy to go into PvP and if your getting thumped to cloak and wait out the clock, or if you win to cloak and wait out any possible reprisal, I didn't completly think out how to do it, but some possible temporary see through cloak could be done, that lets the person just defeated to see through cloak until they are in target range, there after cloak works as normal, like I said I don't know how to do it, just that its cowardly to hide out your dirty work. Maybe a personal timer would work, that they are out of general PvPflag but against the other person they fought, the clock has a like amount of time added to their timer that they can get retribution for time in cloak. IDK..something.

My thought on the not populated areas, ever exit a station/gate on top of 5 other players? So the stack is superimposed over each other, so 2 pvpers were in combat and 1 uses cloak or powerdown, this drops the others target lock, so the guy that lost the lock would not only have the disadvantage of defeating the cloak and powerdown and reestablishing target, they have the additional hampering of cycling through that stack of other 4+ players to get the RIGHT target to blast.

Why not in mission mob nodes? So you're Joe noob the L30 player trying to kill x number mob for your mission and 2+ uber L150 player(s) choose that moment to pull a duel, one of them uses their uber AoE skill and kill all your mobs you was after.....now you have to wait out 2+ assinine uber players little duel to continue on what YOU were doing.....

Why not in high traffic area? (be it station,gate or high traveled navs) just a ship in a area has to be painted in a spot, then add another and another, keep stacking that, now add a few beams effects, add some missles and some projectiles, now add some skill effects...what have you got? FB!....the FB is a INSTANCE...were its a group of x player vs. a group of y mobs, if it lags etc. its limited to that instance. Now move all that instance to right outside of F7, you have all that lagalisousness of a FB, with a station painted, and all the other players docking/undocking, with them trying to warp in or out, with any other zone resources needing populated (banzai raceway...gas clouds...chavez...planets etc etc.) THEN way do you have? Live santaprogen event...... all becuase a few players wanted to PvP outside F7....would that be considered SELFISH, if not it is at least a negative impact on PvE and those that DIDN"T choose PvP.

I'm not saying move them to the bus back, I'm saying that if there is to be a flagged system that there STILL be areas its not activetable (specificly around stations, gates and high traveled navs or the obvious mob nodes like chavez etc), having a PvP duel right outside F7 is like sparking up a cig at the dinner table while someone else is still eating and proceeding to blow your smoke right in their face with each bite.....

[Terrell [BT]]

The way a JW would likely get out of it, would be to self target and cast Return Friend. That would put them back at their registered port.

[Mattsacre]

[quote name='Terrell' timestamp='1336858262' post='57790']
The way a JW would likely get out of it, would be to self target and cast Return Friend. That would put them back at their registered port.
[/quote]
True....but some skils could be incapacitated while in a flagged state...I would that would be one of them , and the tow from self destruct also. At a minimum if they pulled that before flag clock off it should be a LOSS count on any rank.

Or even on the PvP chat it says "player x was a coward and fled from player y....the crowd boos and hisses" Edited May 12, 2012 by Mattsacre

[Algaron [BTL]]

Like I have said before - you can't make certain rules just for one class like the JD - its not fair to the JD's. We can't be having 'temporary see thru cloaks', just so a progen can seek retribution. We shouldn't incapacitate, hinder, block or otherwise stop classes from using any and all skills they are born with, PvP must use the skills they have in PvE - no more no less. It's not cowardly or wussy/wimpy or whatever other adjective you would like to use. Its the class skill and thats what PvP is meant to do - fight against other players using your skills - its the nature of the beast. I see this a lot of these forums - oh jenquai can cloak and well that's not fair to my progen who wants to beat on you. Well sorry bout that - but Jenquais cloak and progens powerdown.

I have already talked about AoE's and other skills that may hit a PvP player. It shouldn't affect the PvE player at all - they should not aggro, turn PvP, or have any change happen at all - Unless they manually type in the command to enable pvp. Full stop. Mind you I can see abuse from PvE healers - that could heal their buddies who are in PvP, without consequence. This could be coded so that just as a PvP player could not fire on or attack any PvE player, a PvE player could not use any skills on a PvP player and would have to enable PvP to do so. There does not need to be a message for less than attentive players in this scenario. Again my thoughts on the Message thing is that if somehow you become PvP flagged for using a skill or attacking a PvP, and you die.. well you won't try the same thing again will you? It like the first time you hit GoBB and died, the next time you will be much more careful. That's how games work. But the point is moot - it can be coded so PvE can not have any affect of PvP players at all, or vice versa. This would fix your outside of station concern as well. I don't think the issue of lag or over crowding will arise in game as you suggest, but it's certainly something to consider.

Your suggestion of having PvP free zones is certainly a fair one as well. Something that can be added or removed as we move along the PvP adventure that's for sure.

[Phorlaug[IS]]

[quote name='Terrell' timestamp='1336858262' post='57790']
The way a JW would likely get out of it, would be to self target and cast Return Friend. That would put them back at their registered port.
[/quote]

Blasphemy ! I'll Die trying. "Today is a good day to Die in PvP". The Jenquai Are expected to die "With their Tin Hulls" and all, right? We got nothing to loose, now the Progen on the other hand will Never live it down.

You know I got to say, that its the Meditation chain that has instilled and fuels our despise of the Progen in the Jenquai's minds and hearts. The Terrans Greed will not stand in the way of the other's plight.
Terran's Motto. [color=#008000][i]"War is Profit$"[/i][/color]

[quote name='Mattsacre' timestamp='1336857985' post='57789']
My thought on the JD (and it was't a bias..got one and play him btw ) is it s SO cheezy to go into PvP and if your getting thumped to cloak and wait out the clock, or if you win to cloak and wait out any possible reprisal, I didn't completly think out how to do it, but some possible temporary see through cloak could be done, that lets the person just defeated to see through cloak until they are in target range, there after cloak works as normal, like I said I don't know how to do it, just that its cowardly to hide out your dirty work. Maybe a personal timer would work, that they are out of general PvPflag but against the other person they fought, the clock has a like amount of time added to their timer that they can get retribution for time in cloak. IDK..something.

My thought on the not populated areas, ever exit a station/gate on top of 5 other players? So the stack is superimposed over each other, so 2 pvpers were in combat and 1 uses cloak or powerdown, this drops the others target lock, so the guy that lost the lock would not only have the disadvantage of defeating the cloak and powerdown and reestablishing target, they have the additional hampering of cycling through that stack of other 4+ players to get the RIGHT target to blast. [/quote]

See this is where a players decission to install a device "To see Cloak" or not to install, instead something for DPS like [url="https://forum.enb-emulator.com/index.php?/user/21758-vitaes/"][color=#225985]Vitaes[/color][/url] was saying. [url="https://forum.enb-emulator.com/index.php?/topic/6408-pvp-discussion-how-to-make-it-fun-for-all/page__view__findpost__p__57639"]https://forum.enb-emulator.com/index.php?/topic/6408-pvp-discussion-how-to-make-it-fun-for-all/page__view__findpost__p__57639[/url]
Your Skill sets and Items equipt will change in PvP, I guarantee you that.

Daam it, You guys are drawing me back into this Discussion. Thank you

[Mattsacre]

So whats your stance on FORCED CONTEMPLATION? Still think no skills should be disabled? The JE will make you be able to do zip while a fellow pvp flagged destroys you......

How about how POWERDOWN worked in arena LIVE?...the PS was totally immune while it was on...you can't target it..you can't shoot it..powerdown made them untargetable, no "see through" items on powerdown, no save roll to get through it...they could sit there until doomsday and thumb their nose at you and you can do nothing but watch their reactor and shield fill back up...think there should be a modification to MENACE? They "as it stands" have a 100% hit chance and you have 0% resist to them chain menacing you..You run away and can't use any skill, still think no skills should be 'modified"? Even if they put in resist its the PSI resist buff thats you chance....50% resist chance....I can spam menace at least 6 times before it falls off, think what your odds of getting out are....all while the PS shoves hot ammo up your arse.

You know that PP get MENACE also right? 5 guns of dmg, crit dmg ,shield recharge, with a martyr's heart/warrior heart reactor combo bottomless reactor....L9 shields. Without Menace they can sit there and laugh in your face while they enlessly heal themselves and still do damage to you..add MENACE? pffft. Cloak? They can get a see cloak through gearage also...AKA Agrippa tech.

How about BEFRIEND...how would that work?..if its like on a mob it don't preclude them using nonagro buffs, but for the duration, if the TT don't dmg you, you can take no agressive action...how would that work in a multipvp setting if they chain befriended?

All thise off the top of my head without a sweat...still no "modification or disabling" of skills? Edited May 12, 2012 by Mattsacre

[Mimir[IS]]

It's good to see you all agree.

[Mattsacre]

I tell you, live...those PS that knew how to play one NEVER lost a battle in arena, they led the win catagory on kills/assists, thats even without "see through cloak" items, so it wasn't just JD was refering to about a cheese factor, a PS could powerdown through the PvP clock also, it was bad and so many folks complained the had to retool the menace skill in arean to add a deminished menace chance to elimate chaining....and they STILL led the boards, why? Because any good PS would be in your hull before menace rolled off, and would have you grav linked before you rolled out of it so you couldn't thrust/warp away while he finished your hull.

[Algaron [BTL]]

So it's cheezy that a JD cloaks to hide from a Progens retribution but powerdown, menace,etc. That's all cool and fair game and wow it's not cheezy at all? LoL Ok I see. Regardless, I don't think there is a cheezy factor to this at all. Progen, Jen or Terran, these are the skills we have at our disposal. Its how we use them that is important.

No it's a test of of skill against skill, a crappy progen will still die at the hands of a skilled JD. I would want to find tactics to overcome the those skills, not to have everyones skills diminshed. What fun would that be? Pretty soon no one would have any skills left at all with all the skills being disabled Where would it stop?

Well if progens are going to be the PvP Gods then so be it. I prefer to fight against a Progens skill set and not have the jenquai tweaked to death so progens can have their way.. again. No skills should be disabled, modified or limited - If we find that progens are indeed awesome and overpowered, then perhaps we should have a look at the progens skill set. Not the Jenquai.

[Phorlaug[IS]]

There is no energy drain, in Power down ? and the shields re-charge?.
A shield and reactor re-charging is a use or manufacture of energy and has some sort energy signature there by giving a hint of life. Even the Cloak skill drains the Reactor. Hhmmm? Maybe the JE's Max scan can detect?. (Alteration?)
"Looking For JE must have max scan for PvP"

[quote name='Mattsacre' timestamp='1336864427' post='57806']
So whats your stance on FORCED CONTEMPLATION? Still think no skills should be disabled? The JE will make you be able to do zip while a fellow pvp flagged destroys you......

How about how POWERDOWN worked in arena LIVE?...the PS was totally immune while it was on...you can't target it..you can't shoot it..powerdown made them untargetable, no "see through" items on powerdown, no save roll to get through it...they could sit there until doomsday and thumb their nose at you and you can do nothing but watch their reactor and shield fill back up...think there should be a modification to MENACE? They "as it stands" have a 100% hit chance and you have 0% resist to them chain menacing you..You run away and can't use any skill, still think no skills should be 'modified"? Even if they put in resist its the PSI resist buff thats you chance....50% resist chance....I can spam menace at least 6 times before it falls off, think what your odds of getting out are....all while the PS shoves hot ammo up your arse.

You know that PP get MENACE also right? 5 guns of dmg, crit dmg ,shield recharge, with a martyr's heart/warrior heart reactor combo bottomless reactor....L9 shields. Without Menace they can sit there and laugh in your face while they enlessly heal themselves and still do damage to you..add MENACE? pffft. Cloak? They can get a see cloak through gearage also...AKA Agrippa tech.

How about BEFRIEND...how would that work?..if its like on a mob it don't preclude them using nonagro buffs, but for the duration, if the TT don't dmg you, you can take no agressive action...how would that work in a multipvp setting if they chain befriended?

All thise off the top of my head without a sweat...still no "modification or disabling" of skills?
[/quote]

Area Energy Leech and Area Shield leech should be able to work ? But there has to be a NPC or another Player targeted for the skills to activated. (alteration ?)

[quote name='Phorlaug' timestamp='1334817384' post='56893']
My concern and real reason for a non-entry and non-exit is that Earth and Beyond was created as a Co-op of the Classes and Professions with One Common goal "To Kill the NPC" this was the flaw of EnB.
Some Items currently in game and the ones that are being implemented are NOT geared toward a More Balanced PvP these items can not make their way into the PvP zone.
I understand that there are items that all the races and classes can't do without

The implementation of the Items in and for the PvP Zone will be Critical !

[/quote]

Dam if the Players keep foreseeing, there will not be much for the DEVs to think about, Just make it work per our nice friendly discussion. I mean that in the best possible way.

[Terrell [BT]]

JE can't hold you still while someone else destroys you. Compulsory Contemplation breaks whenever you take any type of damage other than a debuffer. Compulsory Contemplation also breaks if JE moves, you pass a skill check, or JE runs out of reactor power. Assuming that CC will work in the emulator the same way as live.

[Vitaes]

[quote name='Mattsacre' timestamp='1336864427' post='57806']
So whats your stance on FORCED CONTEMPLATION? Still think no skills should be disabled? The JE will make you be able to do zip while a fellow pvp flagged destroys you......

How about how POWERDOWN worked in arena LIVE?...the PS was totally immune while it was on...you can't target it..you can't shoot it..powerdown made them untargetable, no "see through" items on powerdown, no save roll to get through it...they could sit there until doomsday and thumb their nose at you and you can do nothing but watch their reactor and shield fill back up...think there should be a modification to MENACE? They "as it stands" have a 100% hit chance and you have 0% resist to them chain menacing you..You run away and can't use any skill, still think no skills should be 'modified"? Even if they put in resist its the PSI resist buff thats you chance....50% resist chance....I can spam menace at least 6 times before it falls off, think what your odds of getting out are....all while the PS shoves hot ammo up your arse.

You know that PP get MENACE also right? 5 guns of dmg, crit dmg ,shield recharge, with a martyr's heart/warrior heart reactor combo bottomless reactor....L9 shields. Without Menace they can sit there and laugh in your face while they enlessly heal themselves and still do damage to you..add MENACE? pffft. Cloak? They can get a see cloak through gearage also...AKA Agrippa tech.

How about BEFRIEND...how would that work?..if its like on a mob it don't preclude them using nonagro buffs, but for the duration, if the TT don't dmg you, you can take no agressive action...how would that work in a multipvp setting if they chain befriended?

All thise off the top of my head without a sweat...still no "modification or disabling" of skills?
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Have you PvP'ed much? This is in all games with PvP. People who PvP expect bad things to happen to them. I did it for many years pretty hardcore in a number of games. I knew that I might get in a fight againt four others with no support. I knew I was going to be debuffed out the ass in a group fight, or if I was up against a high level character. But this was by choice.

You have an interesting point about the way some skills are in the game. Skills like cloak, befriend (LOLOLOL, doesn't work againt mobs), hacking, menace and powerdown would have a chance at being resisted based on the levels of the players. The higher level player has a better chance of being successful. Think of it as magic resistance in space, and most games with PvP handle such issues that way. It's a proven system that works. It's up to the player to decide whether or not he/she wants to take a chance on using the skills in question. Sure, spam menace. Better hope those two Terrans hacking you fail. Maybe they will fail because that JD decloaked and blasted them, but when he decloaked the PW waiting for him debuffed him for plasma and unloaded on him. Too bad he didn't see the JE next to him. Mr. PW just got folded away from the fight. Lots of things can happen in this game.

And if someone wants to talk trash then turn wussie, we can bust his stones in chat.

[Mattsacre]

[quote name='Algaron' timestamp='1336870965' post='57821']
So it's cheezy that a JD cloaks to hide from a Progens retribution but powerdown, menace,etc. That's all cool and fair game and wow it's not cheezy at all? LoL Ok I see. Regardless, I don't think there is a cheezy factor to this at all. Progen, Jen or Terran, these are the skills we have at our disposal. Its how we use them that is important.

No it's a test of of skill against skill, a crappy progen will still die at the hands of a skilled JD. I would want to find tactics to overcome the those skills, not to have everyones skills diminshed. What fun would that be? Pretty soon no one would have any skills left at all with all the skills being disabled Where would it stop?

Well if progens are going to be the PvP Gods then so be it. I prefer to fight against a Progens skill set and not have the jenquai tweaked to death so progens can have their way.. again. No skills should be disabled, modified or limited - If we find that progens are indeed awesome and overpowered, then perhaps we should have a look at the progens skill set. Not the Jenquai.
[/quote]
lol thats my point..its a bit cheezy powerdown etc. I said I wasn't biased JD, I just chose it as a "for instance'. I wasn't comparing skill vs. skill until later post when you said nothing should be disabled. What I was saying was I found skills use to "run out the clock" so to speak was cheezy and wimpy.

And per your quote...lol it seems you admit they may need to have a look at skill set, if it is implimented as live was arena I can guarantee that skills will "
need to be looked at" as they are now some of the skills are a "nah nah you can't touch me" skill.

About powerdown, it takes a small amount of power to instacast, there after it takes zero power to stay in that mode, you just have to not move off the dime (you can turn, just not thrust) as you sit on the dime you recharge reactor and shield (at the highest skill its 100% recharge rate of both, at lower skill lvl its less recharge rates). When active nothing can target you, if you cant be targeted, you can't be dmged. As to "resists" whats to resist? They aren't using a skill on YOU, they are using a skill on THEMSELVES...to "see through" or bust through powerdown you have to target them....the skill don't let you target....catch 22.

The mobs that saw through powerdown had "active scan" skill, they had to be right on you to get through, and at like lvl and top skill of powerdown they had next to 0 chance to break through. Players don't have active scan skills, perhaps they can design active scan devices for players to have a chance to do so, but they didn't exist in live.
[quote name='Phorlaug' timestamp='1336871026' post='57822']
There is no energy drain, in Power down ? and the shields re-charge?.
A shield and reactor re-charging is a use or manufacture of energy and has some sort energy signature there by giving a hint of life. Even the Cloak skill drains the Reactor. Hhmmm? Maybe the JE's Max scan can detect?. (Alteration?)
"Looking For JE must have max scan for PvP"



Area Energy Leech and Area Shield leech should be able to work ? But there has to be a NPC or another Player targeted for the skills to activated. (alteration ?)



Dam if the Players keep foreseeing, there will not be much for the DEVs to think about, Just make it work per our nice friendly discussion. I mean that in the best possible way.
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As to splash dmg of leech and etc. it works like turrets, if you are in the green with a NPC item and use a AoE skill it don't hit them with splash dmg, only neutral and enemy, you have to target the turret and hit it direct, powerdown functions like that, it puts you in untarget and green mode.

[Algaron [BTL]]

I still disagree that using your class skills is somehow lame or cheap or cowardly even. If using your skills and playing your toon well helps you avoid death and succeed at PvP, then more power to you.These are the skills the classes were given. Not using them to their maximum potiential is the crime.

Sorry, you attributed a quote to me that wasn't mine.

I was just wondering with powerdown you say you are untargetable and green. Is that just to a mob or everyone, because, my AI is a little better - we are both in PvP mode and I can tell you are trying to fool me.