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If Pvp Were Added - How To Make It Fun For All

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[quote name='Terrell' timestamp='1333419373' post='56350']
Phorlaug are you counting Tlaloc as a PvP or PvE sector in your map. I'm not clear on which it is?
[/quote]

Tlaloc is part of the original PvE as you suggested as added content and sector and is part of Sirius

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[quote name='Phorlaug' timestamp='1333424009' post='56352']
Tlaloc is part of the original PvE as you suggested as added content and sector and is part of Sirius
[/quote]

Thanks. that's good to know.

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This all is just a players suggestion, it has no Bering on what will come. The Community? and ultimately the DEVs will be the deciding factor. We as a Community can only suggest what we would like to see that will have the most fun, challenge, balance and difficulty.
I'm just messing around with my graphics and Imaging programs. and will continue to develop the sectors for the amusement between playing the EMU.

4..

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I would stay away from PvP only equipment. Go into a sector with what you get in game and come out of the sector the same way, dead or alive. That way, non-PvP'ers won't complain about PvP-only equipment that they themselves would like to use. I would also have non-looting of players as well, as some game items are not easy to replace.

However, I would make certain most skills used in combat now work in a PvP environment. For a very specific example, Menace would never work against a real player, so give it a percent chance to work against a PvP opponent based on level differences. That way, a PS jumped by two players might have a chance at a short one to one fight before the other player can get back into the fray. The tactics used by each player on different occasions are vast. A PS might use such a tactic to "divide and conquer" two opponents; two players that are weaker than the PS individually might decide to run for the hills instead of chancing a fight, or maybe all three stay so it becomes a matter of whether or not the PS can take out the one player before the other gets back and shifts the odds again.

The cloak skill also has to work. Who knows, maybe two lv 135 JE's working together take down a lv 115 PW...

A PW and JD suddendly decloak and open up on a TE, TT, and JS. The TE is grav linked by the PW, the JS is folded away by the JD, and the fight is on! Or maybe the scan ability of the JS sees the cloaked ships in time for the group to quickly defend against the coming attack.

So many possibilities for PvP.

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For PvP, it's worth taking a look at the most successful PvP MMOs: DAOC, Eve and Guild Wars.

Eve: PvP is the foundation of the game, drives the game design, and drives the economy. PvP is everywhere, and impossible to avoid for long. People with a long time in the game have a large advantage in game-skills and equipment over those who don't. It also leads to a culture of suspicion and distrust, crippling the formation of community so essential to MMOs.

Not a model to follow, imo.

Guild Wars:
PvP is limited to special arenas/maps designed solely for PvP. There are clear portals to the maps, with a clear separation between PvP and PvE. Participation is limited: opposing teams are balanced in number, and there are clear win conditions so that the competition has a clear end and beginning. Skill in PvP does not depend on what you've amassed in PvE nearly as much as your personal skill in combat. People who do not want to PvP are free from having it spill over into the PvE portion of the game. Guild Wars also allows you to create PvP-tagged characters that do not need to be leveled up in order to be competitive.

DAOC: PvP was limited to a clear portion of the map, with fortresses and capture of other points of interest. It was epic in scale, without taking over the game. It was largely separate from the economic parts of the game. The competition had no beginning or end. Players with a lot of PvE play-time had a huge advantage in game skills and equipment over those who did not. It also suffered from imbalances in the sides -- one side came to dominate the competion on a given server, making the PvP not a lot of fun.


I favor the Guild Wars approach. Limited teams mean that you need to carefully consider your team composition. I'd like to see skills and equipment locked down so that players are limited to activating the six skills or items on their bar. It pushes the emergence of pre-competition strategy and an interesting meta-game. Guild Wars also allows you to create PvP-tagged characters that do not need to be levelled up in order to be competitive.

This is all far future 'castles in the clouds' stuff. There's still a lot of work to be done on PvE here.

--
Daulnay

Interestingly, Guild Wars 2 is attempting to revive the DAOC model of massive combat. However, they're creating a server vs. server ladder, and limiting the competition time, with winners and losers at the end. You also don't need to grind PvE in order to make a competitive character, similar to GW. It looks pretty promising.

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I think the way Asheron's Call did PvP was probably the best. You had two choices, which were to create a character on the PvP only server, or go "red", as they called it, on a regular server. The first choice is not possible with EnB, though it's the best PvP you can have, as everyone on that server is fair game from creation. Griefing is very limited because when a player died, he rezzed with a timer that made him/her immune to immediate attack. He/she could recoup and do whetever. Of course, everyone stayed buffed to the max at all times, hehe. Heck, I didn't leave my couch unless I was armed to the teeth. There was no special gear to use, so naturally, the longer one was in game, the better equipment/spells/etc. he or she had to use. Eventually, long time players maxxed out and had no advantage over similar players. The game world is so large that lower level guys could aviod combat most of the time anyway. The game also has a twitch factor, so actual player skill is involved. The only game I can think of that has a similar twitch-type set-up is Vendetta Online, another space game.

The second way to go PvP was only done on PvE servers. Any player had the option of doing a short, easy quest to become a player killer. Such spirited individuals showed up on radar as a red dot (hence, the going red). No combat interaction was possible between red and normal players. If the played no longer wanted to be a player killer, they simply did the quest again to turn back into a good guy. It was amusing to be standing at a kiosk next to a PvP player and suddenly be in the middle of a nasty fight, especially if you couldn't get hurt. They should have sold popcorn.

For this game, I'd say that the PvP sector approach is probably the best. Make it a sector that no one has to go to for any reason other than PvP. Make it about the size of Jupiter. When you enter the sector, within one minute you are a PvP'er. I say a one minute timer so that a few a-holes have no reason to camp a gate and smoke you as you come in. Put roids in there and see who wants to [u]really[/u] mine dangerously. And yes, have MOBS in there. Unpredicible things happen when your fight drifts into mob-owned territory. A roving RD/Chavez/V'rix patrol showing up could change a lot of things.

As far as griefing, I'd say this gaming community is great. The best thing about that? If someone decides to be a griefer, you and your friends can demand justice. After all, you have the guns. So kill him. If you want a safe base in the sector, Vendetta Online has an interesting way of doing that. Anyone firing a ship weapon within scan range of the base defenses gets blasted. Even the toughest EnB ships won't hold up for long against a gate turret.

Just food for though.

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SWG (post NGE) had a good PvP model IMO. There was a ground game, and a space game. All four of the following applied to both sides (except there were no space battlefields, just a zone)

1. You could 1v1 duel by default, even duel multiple people at once if you wanted to. Faction alignment and guild status didnt matter.

2. You could join a guild and set guildwar with another guild and have constant limited pvp with everyone in the other guild, anywhere, anytime. (you could make private structures for safe houses to log in and out of and buff and whatever). IIRC if you were killed you had like a 60 second flagdown before you went red again, to prevent camping. Faction status didnt matter, tho most guilds picked a side cause PvP zones were still the best places to guildwar (cause of server resources and lag)

3. You picked either side of a war. Faction based. (Rebels vs Imperials, obviously. You could also be neutral and fight on either side, but couldnt access faction restricted zones). If you entered a PvP zone or battlefield, you would be permaflagged to the opposing faction. You flagged up in 15 seconds or the moment you crossed a PvP only zone line and down in 5 minutes if you turned your flagging off. You could be PvP enabled ANYWHERE in the game, too, for as long as you wanted to be. Death flagged you back down. (meaning you either had to cross the line again, or /pvp flag back up to Special Forces status)

4. Getting PvP kills earned you a bounty. A player bounty hunter could pick up your mission and force impromptu 1v1 (2 or 3 BHs could actually get the same mission and force you into a 3v1 conflict) at any time at their discretion. You did not incur a bounty if you didnt PvP.

You didnt have to participate in any of the above at all, for PvE content. (though some PvE content directly related to the Galactic Civil War gave double tokens and GCW points/factional perks and buffs and whatever, for doing the PvE content Special Forces flagged). All of the gear came from PvE, you had to PvE to get the stuff to PvP with. There were special appearance only skins from PvP content, but nothing that unbalanced the PvE game.

The hardest part about putting something like that into EnB would be the balancing of classes. Some classes in SWG (Jedi, Spy) were excellent at solo/duel pvp, but utter crap at group PvP. The other classes more or less HAD to group to be truly effective (Medic, Officer, Smuggler, Commando). Example being an Officer would get destroyed 1v1 by a Jedi. But an Officer/Medic against 2 Jedi would destroy the Jedi if skill was equal. Bounty hunter was the only true profession that could duke it solo and group and had that dual role. But a competent Jedi or Spy would always beat a BH unless the BH was really crafty.

Most profs were well balanced against each other, but there was a rock paper scissors mentality to it. Though you could be an effective solo player with any profession. You really needed to balance professions for group PvP though. It was always funny to watch groups of 8 jedi get mangled by teams of 4 or 6 medics/officers/bounty hunters with skills augmenting each other. Edited by Ryle

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Examples of how to set up the classes of EnB like the classes of SWG:

PW - Jedi, close or medium range combat, very high defense, very high offense. Tank sluggers, but very limited group role and range was a factor. (Solo PvP class)

TT - Medic. Obviously the dedicated healer or buffer/debuffer. Medics in SWG were also the rezzers. (Essential Group PvP class - Healing)

JE - Officer. Action battery and group buffs. Absolutely essential to keep that action/reactor bar up. Officers also did a heck of a lot of AoE DPS, unlike JE, but offys were more important for their group support roles. (Essential Group PvP Class - Action/reactor/rez)

TE - Commando. Heavy DPS/Tank, ranged. The only real difference between commandos and Jedi was that commando was an AoE ranged figher and a Jedi was a single target close quarters. If speed and range (range is always a factor in PvP) are a factor, youd want your range, right? (Group PvP class - Ranged DPS)

PS - Smuggler. Smugglers had excellent DPS (actually the highest in the game), but were glass cannons. Their signature ability was pistolwhip, that basically stunned their opponents for several seconds. Menace anyone? They also had single target roots/snares for crowd control, but werent as good at it as a bounty hunter. (Group PvP Class - Ranged DPS and CC)

JD - Spy. Cloaked single target attacks and high DPS but low defense. (Solo PvP class)

TS/PP/JT - Make one of these a ranged area crowd controller with good defense and survivability and youve got yourself the BH of SWG. The other two could take any middle ground PvP role, another healer class? More group buffs for flavor?

Theres my 2 cents. Edited by Ryle

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I don't think balancing is a huge concern here for solo fights. Each class is good at some things and not good at others. A 150 JE is not going to take down a 150 PW unless the guy playing the PW falls asleep at the keyboard. That's just the way it is. But in a group fight, they sure would have a role.

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I've been a bit swamped in RL, so I haven't really kept up with the forums, but I came across this topic and wanted to express my opinion.

I'm not a PvP-fan myself, but I wouldn't deny the PvP-crowd what they want, as long as it doesn't hurt the PvE experience.

If I had it my way I would probably start with the old arena game from live and build from there. I thought the arena was a fun diversion from the normal content from time to time. Probably because as a JE with max cloak and instant warp I could pretty much sneak around in there and do my thing without much risk of being fragged.

I think it is important if this is built on that PvP remains consensual. New PvP zones should either have large safe zones or require someone to be flagged for PvP before they can be shot. This is necessary so those who just wants to watch doesn't feel left out. Don't force someone to PvP just because they want to explore a new sector, be it PvP or PvE.
The best way I know of to achieve this is by the PvP flag method. The flag should be off by default, and would have to be turned on by choice (player chooses to flag him/herself for PvP). To participate in any PvP activity (firing on a PvP-flagged player, helping a PvP-flagged player or interacting with PvP content, for instance mining a PvP-roid ) a player would have to be flagged for PvP.
I think it is better to restrict someone from participating in PvP activities when not flagged for PvP than automatically flagging someone for PvP when they participate in PvP activities. If the auto-flagging is used anyway, sufficient warning should be given before flagging someone for PvP to avoid players being flagged for PvP without their knowledge or intent.

As many has stated before me, the arena model of No XP dept, quality loss or ammo consumption from PvP should be kept for all PvP if it is expanded in the future.

Placement of hostile NPC's in PvP zones should also be severely restricted to avoid being finished of by an NPC if you choose to flee from a PvP battle.

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I still feel that PvP should be a Very large seperate Zone.
Your PvP Character is born and raised in the PvP Zone.
Your PvP Character can NEVER leave the PvP Zone.
Your PvE Character Can NEVER Enter.
There will be No "Ooops I entered a PvP Zone, Don't Shoot Don't Shoot ! "
There will be no PvE compremise, meaning nothing will be taken away from or altered the Current or future PvE.
Items available in the PvP zone should only be as Normal NoN-raid items.
The JE will have no or very little problem in the PvP zone example I have suggested. (see Alnilam sector)
Fold space, Navigate (Gravity Wells), Scan and Cloak will be most useful in PvP.

I guarantee that your PvE and your PvP Skill set build will be much different as a JE or Any Class or profession for that matter, Thats why I have suggested that there be a Call Forward type terminal in your home sector base or a defector PS etc etc

[i]What happens in PvP should stay in PvP.[/i]
[i]No pain no gain..[/i]

Phorlaug

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Raising a character in a solely PvP zone simply for the purpose of PvP is not feasible. How many people will want to level a character to 150 in a lilmited zone? How can you level to 150 unless the devs put every aspect of the game into the PvP zone? No one has the time for that. It's not hard to look at a flashing gate (for example) and say, "Hmm, PvP gate, I don't want to go in there, and have no reason to do so." Since the gate would lead to a sector that has no bearing on the PvE game at all, there would be no effect on the PvE gaming aspect. And for those that are curious to go in, hey, pop in and look around. If they don't like it, they can just leave. It's simple.

PvP I imagine would be more like PvP lite anyway in this game. No looting, no loss of credits, no real damage to ships and equipment. The PvP sector would simply be going in and putting your ship against another ship, or ships. If you die, you can get a tow to a neutral sector in the PvP zove or a tow to a PvE base--making you a non-PvP player since you're not in the PvP sector. If there are roving mobs in there, the more the merrier. I've had many a gaming day where unwanted mobs made a wild two-way group fight into an all-out free for all of festive, murderous fun.

I admit I laugh at PvP lite, as a hardcore PvP'er for many years--but I also realize that in this type of game, given the player base we have, it's the best we'd probably get. And I'm fine with that. I want the chance to put my ships up against others, and I don't mean in a closed arena environment that restricts the full movement and crowd control capabilities of certain classes.

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You know it occured to me, if there was a PvP zone there would actually be a feasable use for the device "spider web", would be like tangler devices in EVE, someone tries to ambush you and you start handing them their butt to them, so they try and warp away...SUPRISE! I bothered to equip a spider web for jokers that like to back stab me :)....oh no!...look your hull is on fire! :)

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My concern and real reason for a non-entry and non-exit is that Earth and Beyond was created as a Co-op of the Classes and Professions with One Common goal "To Kill the NPC" this was the flaw of EnB.
Some Items currently in game and the ones that are being implemented are NOT geared toward a More Balanced PvP these items can not make their way into the PvP zone.
I understand that there are items that all the races and classes can't do without

The implementation of the Items in and for the PvP Zone will be Critical !

Aaaarrrgg :( Mattsacre said the "E" word.. LOL

[quote name='Vitaes' timestamp='1334794408' post='56884']
If there are roving mobs in there, the more the merrier. I've had many a gaming day where unwanted mobs made a wild two-way group fight into an all-out free for all of festive, murderous fun.

I admit I laugh at PvP lite, as a hardcore PvP'er for many years--but I also realize that in this type of game, given the player base we have, it's the best we'd probably get. And I'm fine with that. I want the chance to put my ships up against others, and I don't mean in a closed arena environment that restricts the full movement and crowd control capabilities of certain classes.
[/quote]

Oh Man, lite PvP? I would like to see the Difficulty ramping go up substantially when the opposing factions get closer to each other, with the Appropriate level factioned NPC (level 1-64)
Roving mobs I like this because it adds the PvE aspect to it when there is no PvP going on. It also can help the Weaker classes and professions when its their Faction NPC.
I Agree IMO An arena would be a waste, Who wants to learn a new set of rules (Rhetorical). Keeping some of the aspect of the way we play EnB now, but instead we will be battling a much smarter opponent, "Players"

[b]Now heres a Question I have been putting off and afraid to ask. It will have to be addressed at some point.

What race specific items besides the normal Vendor Purchase would we want or need in the PvP zone ?[/b] Please lets be realistic.
I would say a lot of the rare common drop [u]Non-raid items.[/u] (Items that can not be purchased from an NPC)
Lets include boss drops as useable. (Bing, Zzizix, Gupta, Xian Xiang Tai, Su Xuan Tan....etc etc etc)
Some Items with a multi-level build would be smart. Dah ! <_<

Some race specfic examples please. Lets use as a starting point a total of 20 race specfic items for each and 10 No restrictions.
LOL, I don't expect the Terrans to pick the Progen's or the Jenquai's items and Vice versa.
[color=#ff0000]After looking at the data bases this is a very narrow parameter we can expand on this later, To include Raid Profession only. ie[/color]: [url="http://enbarsenal.com/item/view_item.php?&id=5139&type=11"]http://enbarsenal.co...id=5139&type=11[/url]

[url="http://enbarsenal.com/"]http://enbarsenal.com/[/url]

20 Progen:

20 Jenquai:

20 Terran:

10 No restrictions:

4....

Oh man, sad I have been thinking of an EnB PvP server/zone for a long time. :)
[url="http://forums.electronicarts.co.uk/ea-retro-games-archive/172284-reopening-earth-beyond-11.html#post2656418"]http://forums.electr...tml#post2656418[/url]

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[quote name='Knix' timestamp='1334664099' post='56846']
I'm not a PvP-fan myself, but I wouldn't deny the PvP-crowd what they want, as long as it doesn't hurt the PvE experience.
[/quote]
Hell I'm not a PvP Veteran either, PvP IMO is the furture and expansion of this game, For years I have seen the reviews of Earth and Beyond and the Lacking of a PvP environment. Will it keep the hardcore PvP crowd intertested and totally emersed maybe not But it will cause them to take a second look and may help it evolve and the game as a whole get better.


[quote name='Phorlaug' timestamp='1334817384' post='56893']
[b]Now heres a Question I have been putting off and afraid to ask. It will have to be addressed at some point.

What race specific items besides the normal Vendor Purchase would we want or need in the PvP zone ?[/b] Please lets be realistic.
I would say a lot of the rare common drop [u]Non-raid items.[/u] (Items that can not be purchased from an NPC)
Lets include boss drops as useable. (Bing, Zzizix, Gupta, Xian Xiang Tai, Su Xuan Tan....etc etc etc)
Some Items with a multi-level build would be smart. Dah ! <_<
[/quote]

Ok, I'll jump in. You'll notice I did a little blacking out of some of my selections, It was hard sticking to my own parameters and not including some of the Raid items. If there are some things that should not be on this list please say so. (Illegal Raid Item etc)
Windows 7 Clipping tool made it a little easier to post the items up. Any item I have listed that have multiple levels are included, they are just not shown.
Defender's Please feel free to add to this list.


I'm not sure if we can have the buildable / manufactured items buildable in the PvP Zone. I don't know how a Jenquai will get 200% shields unless
theres an NPC to do so for them.
What do you's think would be an answer to this?

For my JD:

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I was hoping I would NOT see one these threads for a long time.Many have allready stated it this game is/was never made to be pvp,so to get there IMHO way to much resourses would be required.

I would rather time and effort be put into sever events and threats to stations gates and so on,that have to be delt with by sever community

example

If station gets attacted(vrix,rogue npcs or mobs) and is damaged that station needs fixin or replacing(minerals,comps,so on) that way all races can be involved
If gate gets takin out Je's would become real important with wh routs would become more influencial for gate down time period

Anyway this is how I hope resourses are spent for now Edited by Thrangar
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[quote name='Thrangar' timestamp='1335710985' post='57173']
I was hoping I would NOT see one these threads for a long time.Many have allready stated it this game is/was never made to be pvp,so to get there IMHO way to much resourses would be required.

I would rather time and effort be put into sever events and threats to stations gates and so on,that have to be delt with by sever community

example

If station gets attacted(vrix,rogue npcs or mobs) and is damaged that station needs fixin or replacing(minerals,comps,so on) that way all races can be involved
If gate gets takin out Je's would become real important with wh routs would become more influencial for gate down time period

Anyway this is how I hope resourses are spent for now
[/quote]

Those are some pretty good ideas. Would also like it if stations regularily needed things done, to keep things up to speed with varying rewards. Traders could build comps/weapons that the base needed, Warriors could build weapons/ammo that were needed, as well as eliminate threats, while Explorers could bring in resources (ores/gases) and build devices needed.
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Is there some way to have or create a special interest Chat or Secondary guild/Group in the EMU ?

I was thinking that there could be a another guild or group you could join that share a special interest.
Something that multiple guild members could join..

I don't want to speculate on what at this time. But use your imagination. :) (PvP)
I could see where it might get to be, a not so nice thing ????

I was posting this in "Suggestion"

[quote name='Thrangar' timestamp='1335710985' post='57173']
I was hoping I would NOT see one these threads for a long time.Many have allready stated it this game is/was never made to be pvp,so to get there IMHO way to much resourses would be required.

I would rather time and effort be put into sever events and threats to stations gates and so on,that have to be delt with by sever community

example

If station gets attacted(vrix,rogue npcs or mobs) and is damaged that station needs fixin or replacing(minerals,comps,so on) that way all races can be involved
If gate gets takin out Je's would become real important with wh routs would become more influencial for gate down time period

Anyway this is how I hope resourses are spent for now
[/quote]
But, How would you make it fun for all ?`

[quote name='Terrell' timestamp='1335714274' post='57174']
Those are some pretty good ideas. Would also like it if stations regularily needed things done, to keep things up to speed with varying rewards. Traders could build comps/weapons that the base needed, Warriors could build weapons/ammo that were needed, as well as eliminate threats, while Explorers could bring in resources (ores/gases) and build devices needed.
[/quote]

After doing Zack, Zeke, kill Cloudriders, FB, BBW, Mordana and rebuilding The Station(s) for 20-30 times then what?
At what point would it be time for the PvP to get their cake? Lets not deny them what you yourselves want "Content"

Please...
Pvp Discussion - How To Make It Fun For All


Phorlaug

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[quote name='Mimir']

It seems to me I would rather see some of the old EnB flavor of the MASSIVE cooperative fish bowls of old be in game first. Also the Virix story line, a clean non exclusive Agrippa mission line, and lag and bugs in general fixed before adding PvP to the murk of a fledgling EMU. Can we agree that if the majority of players prefer to have the game as it was, without the addition of PvP that this part could or should be put on a back burner?
[/quote]

I agree with Mimir. Is this game really ready for PVP. I think there is a place for it in this game. On the other hand I also believe that the game itself has content that is not available. Storyline, raids and sectors. I believe this is just another calling for some new type of content. Something new for people to do.

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---------------------------------------------------------------------
Mimir said:


It seems to me I would rather see some of the old EnB flavor of the MASSIVE cooperative fish bowls of old be in game first. Also the Virix story line, a clean non exclusive Agrippa mission line, and lag and bugs in general fixed before adding PvP to the murk of a fledgling EMU. Can we agree that if the majority of players prefer to have the game as it was, without the addition of PvP that this part could or should be put on a back burner?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I have been saying Multi-guild co-op FB for some time now. Bosses are too easy to kill.
[url="https://forum.enb-emulator.com/index.php?/topic/6388-why-i-think-we-need-a-player-wipe/page__view__findpost__p__52378"]https://forum.enb-emu...dpost__p__52378[/url]

[quote name='lordfalcon' timestamp='1336493932' post='57506']
I agree with Mimir. Is this game really ready for PVP. I think there is a place for it in this game. On the other hand I also believe that the game itself has content that is not available. Storyline, raids and sectors. I believe this is just another calling for some new type of content. Something new for people to do.
[/quote]

How long does it take for a well formed Guild and Group to kill any of the bosses or raids?
No sooner then they get the content in That the players are asking. "Whats next" more more more.
It will never end.

How hard is it for the X-mas and Holloween NPC to be in place every year?
I don't see it as being as resource and time consuming than what most are perceiving or believe.

If and when Missions, jobs and quest are added to the PvP Sector/zone then it will be just as time and resource consuming as PvE.

In order to make a very good fun PvP experience it will need to be refined.
In the beginning (I will conceed) that the sector could be smaller (To Start) than the one I have originally suggested, for the sake of making it better in the future by getting the input from the players, AND THEN expanding the PvP Zone.
Add four or five sectors/star systems with race beggining base stations to start and keep them seperated from the PvE.

Don't deny the PvP player and community ANY PvP.
The PvP Zone still has to be a seperate from PvE.

[color=#ff0000]I feel we are getting away from the topic here..Tell us how we can make it enjoyable for all..[/color]

Phorlaug..

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I am not a fan of PVP in ENB. Play EvE and Battle Pirates for my PVP kick. I play ENB to relax and exploreI I even LIKE mining. And fishing as soon as i can get some named lvl9 Beams LOL~!!~!!

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There are a couple ways to look at PvP in EnB. Taking a page out of World of Warcraft, it would be possible to set up a PVE and a PVP server. Everyone logging into a PvP server in WoW knew that they could be attacked by an opposing Horde or Alliance toon at any time, save for Sanctuaries like Dalaran (you were unable to attack in these areas). The whole world was a PvP zone, so players could kill or be killed almost anywhere. On a PvE server you couldnt attack or be killed regardless. If you want to set your toon to PvP it would be a simple matter of using a slash command - something like /pvp [on/off].

An option would be to make the whole Universe a PvP zone but in order to PvP you had to flag yourself as a PvP player. Players who didnt have their flag set could not attack or be attacked by other players. I think flagging would be by far the simplest solution, as there would be no need to have special areas. Anyone who didn't want to PvP would not have their game changed in the least. Except perhaps seeing another player with a special tag or colour signifying they are a PvP toon. An Arena something like in live could used to hold Death matches 2vs2, 3vs3 or 6vs6.

Now to make it fun! Setting up a system where certain achievements would grant special rewards. Say you killed 20 other toons without dying - you would receive a token to turn in for an awesome device that could only be obtained via this system. (Make it NT/NM) Perhaps it would take 10 tokens to get this device, and the device could be only used in the Arena, or a device that could be used only on PvP players, or a server wide message alerting the universe of how cool you are, when you kill 50 in a row without dying. Maybe you get a tag as well for certain achievements. (I am a big fan of achievements and server wide messages based on accomplishments of a player).

I think PvP could be incorperated in the existing universe without the need of having to create a separate sector, or disrupting the rest of the community.

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[quote name='Phorlaug' timestamp='1336502389' post='57509']

Don't deny the PvP player and community ANY PvP.
The PvP Zone still has to be a seperate from PvE

[color=#FF0000]I feel we are getting away from the topic here..Tell us how we can make it enjoyable for all..[/color]

Phorlaug..
[/quote]

See there is the rub...as the thread titled....
IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO MAKE IT ENJOYABLE FOR ALL!

Few "enjoy" PvP....
And as everyone has their idea of what makes them happy, you can't guarantee happy, like the great founding document (Constitution) says,"...the PERSUIT of happiness" * notice it don't say you WILL be happy, just that you get to chase after it.

Same with PvE, everyone has their personal idea of what they enjoy, perhaps its mining, looting, trading, building/crafting, maybe raiding does it for you, the old EnB had a rich and diverse content to persue it all, to develop PvP to that same breadth of richness would nessecitate a lessening of PvE development. To develop PvP you have to put in time and resources, time and resources diverted from PvE development. I, like others say don't ignore PvP, just don't let it get so vital that it hangs up other more vital goals, more folks enjoy(ed) EnB for its PvE than PvP, keep it so again.

Get to LIVE standards first and foremost, [i]THEN consider optional paths of development.[/i]

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[quote name='Algaron' timestamp='1336530495' post='57521']
There are a couple ways to look at PvP in EnB. Taking a page out of World of Warcraft, it would be possible to set up a PVE and a PVP server. Everyone logging into a PvP server in WoW knew that they could be attacked by an opposing Horde or Alliance toon at any time, save for Sanctuaries like Dalaran (you were unable to attack in these areas). The whole world was a PvP zone, so players could kill or be killed almost anywhere. On a PvE server you couldnt attack or be killed regardless. If you want to set your toon to PvP it would be a simple matter of using a slash command - something like /pvp [on/off].

An option would be to make the whole Universe a PvP zone but in order to PvP you had to flag yourself as a PvP player. Players who didnt have their flag set could not attack or be attacked by other players. I think flagging would be by far the simplest solution, as there would be no need to have special areas. Anyone who didn't want to PvP would not have their game changed in the least. Except perhaps seeing another player with a special tag or colour signifying they are a PvP toon. An Arena something like in live could used to hold Death matches 2vs2, 3vs3 or 6vs6.

Now to make it fun! Setting up a system where certain achievements would grant special rewards. Say you killed 20 other toons without dying - you would receive a token to turn in for an awesome device that could only be obtained via this system. (Make it NT/NM) Perhaps it would take 10 tokens to get this device, and the device could be only used in the Arena, or a device that could be used only on PvP players, or a server wide message alerting the universe of how cool you are, when you kill 50 in a row without dying. Maybe you get a tag as well for certain achievements. (I am a big fan of achievements and server wide messages based on accomplishments of a player).

I think PvP could be incorperated in the existing universe without the need of having to create a separate sector, or disrupting the rest of the community.
[/quote]
iirc, you could be attacked in WOW's PvE if you attacked one of the towers in the Plaguelands. I remembered this because a Tauren warrior came into the Tower while My Rogue was in Stealth/cloak. I toasted him !

I'll add to what you suggest.
There should not be a slash command for PvP, to have the option to turn it on and off at will even when being attacked and loosing. Not the escape we want.
Instead an Item you have to have in your Hold will tag you PvP the only way to untag yourself is to remove it, either by ditching it in space or putting in your Vault. If you ditch it in space you'll never be able to do PvP again.

To Make PvP fun for everyone:
In order to get the PvP Item/tag You will need to collect 4 items in a mission chain to have the item built or given as a mission reward. OR this could be a KEY to the new sector. (Sector key Prefered)
Three of the four Items will come from the current and working Raids: Fish Bowl, Mordana and Black Beards Ghost. The Fourth and Final item will come from the Der Todesengel sector and raid. MEANING the DT sector will have to be active BEFORE there will be a PvP.

Everyone gets to have new life in their current raids and a Mission chain that gives great XP after acquiring the item as a multi-drop-only (plenty to go around) after every raid. AND DT gets done First. The missions and items could be in place sooner than later to satisy everyone

This is the best Diplomatic compromise I can come up with.

I believe I have gone through every possible senerio and still believe that a new seperate sector is the way it should be done. There are to many items in game that have a off balence aspect to PvP and they have to be kept seperate. IMO
BUT All of the players had already said no PvP in the Current PvE areas.

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"In order to get the PvP Item/tag You will need to collect 4 items in a mission chain to have the item built or given as a mission reward. OR this could be a KEY to the new sector. (Sector key Prefered)
Three of the four Items will come from the current and working Raids: Fish Bowl, Mordana and Black Beards Ghost. The Fourth and Final item will come from the Der Todesengel sector and raid. MEANING the DT sector will have to be active BEFORE there will be a PvP"

Why go through this? It's just so simple to enter a flagged separate sector to PvP. If a few people want to do PvP with lower level ships, they sure can't do those raids. You just shut people out of PvP.

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