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If Pvp Were Added - How To Make It Fun For All

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[quote name='Phorlaug' timestamp='1327968884' post='52763']

New items for the New Classes, NPC drops or Token rewards, Non-tradeable Non-manufacture eh eh ?
Now we're talking.[/quote]

Token rewards? Like trade ins? I understand NPC drops, yes. PvP cenetric items I would think, so that non-pvp players have no reason to venture in for pvm items. Roids could do the same, Some new drops only for pvp manufacturing. Maybe make regular ammo worthless, gives us a reason to mine and even fight over limited resources so we can keep fighting.

[quote name='Phorlaug' timestamp='1327968884' post='52763']But I seriously would like to see New Class items way sooner than this PvP would ever come to fruition.[/quote]That shouldn't be too far off now.

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Not a fan of PvP for this game, but if there is to be a sector for it, fine, but don't make it so that you have to PvP to get good equipment for your class. Equipment should be available for each class through PvE so those who aren't interested in PvP don't have to participate to get the best things for one's toon. Or there should be alternate methods to get said items.

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[quote name='Phorlaug' timestamp='1327950536' post='52729']
IMO, an arena will not cut it and OPEN PvP would destroy the Game as we know it, and that is unacceptable ! [/quote]




[quote name='StarbuckJD' timestamp='1327969626' post='52767']
Token rewards? Like trade ins? I understand NPC drops, yes. PvP cenetric items I would think, so that non-pvp players have no reason to venture in for pvm items. Roids could do the same, [/quote]

OMG ! Roids! I didn't even consider. Thats a Great idea ! Warrior class run protection and Scanning Mining classes do their thing !
Brilliant!

[quote name='Terrell' timestamp='1327970050' post='52769']
Not a fan of PvP for this game, but if there is to be a sector for it, fine, but don't make it so that you have to PvP to get good equipment for your class. Equipment should be available for each class through PvE so those who aren't interested in PvP don't have to participate to get the best things for one's toon. Or there should be alternate methods to get said items.
[/quote]

This is just another way to get the new stuff NOT the only way :)

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[quote name='Terrell' timestamp='1327970050' post='52769']
Not a fan of PvP for this game, but if there is to be a sector for it, fine, but don't make it so that you have to PvP to get good equipment for your class. Equipment should be available for each class through PvE so those who aren't interested in PvP don't have to participate to get the best things for one's toon. Or there should be alternate methods to get said items.
[/quote]Yep, just like I said above, we agree on that. It's actually common for people that pvp, having characters for pvp and other characters purely for pvm. Remember that this is more of a mature community here, the game is old and most of us more than match it's age. Age tends to lead us to a desire for more variety, rather than the same old thing over and over. So the basic difference that I propose is much like pvp loadouts in EVE, sort of like that, but not exactly. When you go pvp, you get your pvp loadout (such as my Scorpion with a pvp loadout). When you go hunt mobs, you pick up the loadout that works best against mobs, but it's no good for pvp. In this case, I'd like to see the difference in that as one is completely no good for the other, and you cannot even pvp unless you have the right equipment installed and in the right sectors where pvm players have no interest to be for any reason, especially for drops.

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Okay that's fair enough, I can live with that. That may work just fine, so long as PVP gear makes can make up at least partially for the weaker classes and it's restricted to a few new sectors.

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Yeah forced PvP is no fun, even for a hardcore PvPer like me. There is no joy in griefing someone that just wants to mine roids or kill voltoi.

Id say I agree with flagged only sectors, PvP gear that is useful against nothing but players, and separating PvE from PvP entirely.

I mean theres always the chance of adding something useful to a PvP sector in a PvE format (roids and mobs that drop parts and loots and so on) but they should never be something "desirable" for PvE only content players, but only for crafting the PvP uber gear or whatnot.

Reminds me of the one handed lightsaber quest in the Restuss PvP zone on SWG. Some poor soul would just be trying to complete his quest/collection (which was mandatory to earn the best armor/cloak in the game for a Jedi) and get murdered by gankers and eventually quit trying because PvP isnt their game (the NPC that dropped the loot only no-trade schematic was IN the PvP zone, thus forcing you into PvP (AND declaring a factional alliance in the process) to get a PvE item). Eventually this issue was fixed by development two years later (really, two YEARS?) by making the schematic tradeable. So you could just buy it off a PvPer for what was really a very small amount of creds (like 500k or so), but by then, it had been going on so long, Jedi players had pretty much stopped caring about doing the mission at all.

So yes, keep them seperate. Id rather destroy people hell bent on killing me anyway. =] Edited by Ryle

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[quote name='StarbuckJD' timestamp='1327956786' post='52733']
... a Moderator opened this thread for us to discuss the issue if we wish to. ...
[/quote]

I didn't see any "Moderator" open this discussion and I also don't see any reason that players that think no PvP as being fun are not a valid points in this discussion. Seems to me if it is to be a valid discussion it needs both sides of it. LOL and
[quote name='StarbuckJD' timestamp='1327967067' post='52760']
..."go play EVE", ... Maybe start another thread “Pvp? [/quote]

On one hand you object being told to go away but on the other you tell those that have some non positive PvP thoughts to express in this discussion, to go away.

Seems funny to me.

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To be clear, I started this thread, and then Dak dumped all the posts from the "player wipe" thread into this one.
Alot were dated/timestamped before my first post here, which clearly says I reposted it (it was the original thread starter anyway), so it looks like the convo was started here by Starbuck, lol. Thats just the posts from the other thread before mine. Why it did that ill never know.

So, I started the thread, then the Moderator dumped the offtopic posts from another thread here.

Hope that clears you two up on who started it =] Edited by Ryle
  • Upvote 1

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[quote name='Phorlaug' timestamp='1327950536' post='52729']
You know I have been pushing for PvP There is something about trying to out-smart and battle a Living person, granted the DEVs have been trying to make the NPC AI a little more challenging and there has been some complaints about their efforts. IE: kiting, and running etc etc..

You can not predict what a Living breathing person is going to do and even if you could "HE WILL LEARN" and next time maybe, just maybe that person / Group will do something unexpected that you and yours did not anticipate and your Now on the run.

As things are now Every NPC that we have fought are predictable you know what they and their MOB are going to do. I AM confident that the DEVs and Betas (What few we have) will make the NPC AI more of a challenge, (Cloaked and Skill activations success etc etc)

IMO, an arena will not cut it and OPEN PvP would destroy the Game as we know it, and that is unacceptable !

The only way IMO is to have an entire sector for PvP, enter the sector your Labled PvP, up untill you leave the sector.
What is the motivation for this? How about 1000 explore XP per Nav point reguardless of your overall level (Times 130 NAVs to be discovered !) and Someone mentioned Tokens in another post, 1 token per player kill, (200 tokens = 1 skill point) per turn in to an NPC yet to be determined.

The other things we have to concider is that 1) the game will have a new level of excitement and 2) We will now be bringing in new Blood to the game some people that were hoping for some kind of PvP. WHILE MAINTAINING the feel and fun of our Earth and Beyond for EVERYONE !

Here's the Thing it looks like some of us are missing who says that there would only Be Jenquai or only Terran or Only Progen groups. Don't get me wrong when I say that I am not underestimating My Jenquai, IF you did it will be your Undoing :angry: . Nor do I think the Progen or the Terrans will be push overs, it is doable to do and to Die.

Sounds Dam exciting to Me !!

Phorlaug...
[/quote]

/agree

With all you said but for one small point. As soon as the player exits the PvP sector(s) his/her levels gained, equipment looted, ores pulled from the PvP sectors stay at the exit. There can be no advantage to PvPers over the non PvPers.

My ultimate suggestion is to run two concurrent servers. One PvP the other non. This way nothing gets crossed, there will be no possibility of players getting "ganked" by wondering into the PvP zone. I feel that any player who has played any PvP and had a bad experience will rage quit EnB pretty quick, even without trying. And we may even have lost a few just seeing this and bailing.

There was talk of gaining players that are looking for PvP but there are so many games out there with PvP already, and unless it is done very well these additional players will get bored and exit the game along with the rage quitters. Then what will we have?

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[quote name='Mimir' timestamp='1328026351' post='52812']
/agree

With all you said but for one small point. As soon as the player exits the PvP sector(s) his/her levels gained, equipment looted, ores pulled from the PvP sectors stay at the exit. There can be no advantage to PvPers over the non PvPers.

My ultimate suggestion is to run two concurrent servers. One PvP the other non. This way nothing gets crossed, there will be no possibility of players getting "ganked" by wondering into the PvP zone. I feel that any player who has played any PvP and had a bad experience will rage quit EnB pretty quick, even without trying. And we may even have lost a few just seeing this and bailing.

There was talk of gaining players that are looking for PvP but there are so many games out there with PvP already, and unless it is done very well these additional players will get bored and exit the game along with the rage quitters. Then what will we have?
[/quote]

EeeeK :o Two servers ?? We can't even get One payed for.
"unless it is done very well these additional players will get bored" This is what this discussion is about..

[quote name='Phorlaug' timestamp='1327970170' post='52770']
This is just another way to get the new stuff NOT the only way :)
[/quote]

The NPC that will also be in this sector will also drop the Items as will the roids of the appropriate levels.

From what I see there are just a select few that would do PvP so the chances of getting "Ganked" will be Minimal in a New Galaxy sector the size of Capella.[u] It will be easy not to be seen IF you don't want to :) [/u]
If we make this PvP area the size or Katara's Veil (Spelling) IT WILL BE a mess and a FAIL !!! :(

Also for the sake of making a Great PvP sector and to limit the Possibility of "Ganking" There could and should be a Friendly Tag or non-combatant for Like Race Players (Jenquai CAN NOT Attack Jenquai and Progen CAN NOT attack Progens etc etc) UNTILL THEY are IN a group in the PvP Galaxy. Mixed races / classes or not.

And just to clarify NO ONE WILL Lose anything in this PvP or gain anything in Death (NO XP DEBT No Quality Damage :) ) [b]EXCEPT DEATH By NPC[/b]... The Only lose you / they will have is to be Sent to your Registared station and hell we could have a number of stations along the path that one could register. [b]EXCEPT DEATH by NPC [/b]

I don't know if some of you remember the "Easter Egg" post thing where "If you found an item (Like the Damaged Weapons barrel ) it Would start a Mission / quest to have that Item built and aquire the build for the said item. This "Damaged Weapons Barrel" CAN BE TRADED / SOLD to a Non-PvP player and the quest can begin and End ENTIRLY in the Normal Non-Pvp of Earth and Beyond. [u]These Missions and builds will equal the SAME XP gained by the PvP Players ![/u] :) Nice eh ?

Honestly I would like to have a PvP sector but I know Its nice to dream but make enjoyable for all and it may become reality
Hell why would this Jenquai want PvP hehe I'll be the First target This Radical Jenquai.

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[quote name='Mimir' timestamp='1328022805' post='52808']

On one hand you object being told to go away but on the other you tell those that have some non positive PvP thoughts to express in this discussion, to go away.

Seems funny to me.
[/quote]Where did I tell him to go away? I told youuuu to start a new thread, since you are upset that we are discussing the topic "how to make it fun". I never told him to go play EVE. There is "go away" and there is "start a new topic" (that I told you), it's not the same. I see were this is going though, I'm not going to stay here and be attacked by you while trying to discuss the actual topic. This is why I don’t donate any longer since ST2. Not about having my way or not, but the hostility with discussions here, by devs mainly.
peace out
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[quote name='StarbuckJD' timestamp='1328038499' post='52822']
Where did I tell him to go away? I told youuuu to start a new thread, since you are upset that we are discussing the topic "how to make it fun". I never told him to go play EVE. There is "go away" and there is "start a new topic" (that I told you), it's not the same. I see were this is going though, I'm not going to stay here and be attacked by you while trying to discuss the actual topic. This is why I don’t donate any longer since ST2. Not about having my way or not, but the hostility with discussions here, by devs mainly.
peace out
[/quote]

hhhmm:(:(:( Know what your saying, but counter productive.
Lets make it nice for EVERYONE. We as a Community we can do this. whom ever post or replys.
Voice your concerns and we can work them out, Everyone has an opinoin and every one of them is just as important.
We can make it work !

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[quote name='StarbuckJD' timestamp='1328038499' post='52822']
Where did I tell him to go away? I told youuuu to start a new thread, since you are upset that we are discussing the topic "how to make it fun". I never told him to go play EVE. There is "go away" and there is "start a new topic" (that I told you), it's not the same. I see were this is going though, I'm not going to stay here and be attacked by you while trying to discuss the actual topic. This is why I don’t donate any longer since ST2. Not about having my way or not, but the hostility with discussions here, by devs mainly.
peace out
[/quote]


Well you didn't tell the user to go to a different game but you made it obviously clear that a non positive PvP comment was not welcome, and as you said start a different post. I am NOT a dev, I co-authored a small application for the Android and beyond that I have no Dev powers or even get to attend the dev meetings. So if you are holding off donating do NOT blame it on me or my opinions.

All I said was to have a viable discussion you need all sides of it not just your "It's great we want it and we promise not to gank any player....really"

If you want to have PvP convince those that don't want it that it will not disrupt their game (and their donations) without telling them they have no say in your discussion.

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[quote name='Phorlaug' timestamp='1328037279' post='52819']
I don't know if some of you remember the "Easter Egg" post thing where "If you found an item (Like the Damaged Weapons barrel ) it Would start a Mission / quest to have that Item built and aquire the build for the said item. This "Damaged Weapons Barrel" CAN BE TRADED / SOLD to a Non-PvP player and the quest can begin and End ENTIRLY in the Normal Non-Pvp of Earth and Beyond. [u]These Missions and builds will equal the SAME XP gained by the PvP Players ![/u] :) Nice eh ? [/quote]

I still have the Easter Egg egg item mission / quest on my hard drive.
I forget who was the Original poster of the "Easter Egg" thing. But I just posted an idea for the original post.
I'm at work now I can't get it posted just now. (lunch :) )

NVM found it,
[url="https://forum.enb-emulator.com/index.php?/topic/2676-easter-eggs/page__hl__%2Beaster+%2Begg__fromsearch__1"]https://forum.enb-emulator.com/index.php?/topic/2676-easter-eggs/page__hl__%2Beaster+%2Begg__fromsearch__1[/url]

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I like the idea of competitive PvE myself, with the rewards being rankings and official hangouts.

EG a second station perhaps next to F7, which is open for everyone, but the lounge and bazaars are only open for guilds/groups who ranked first/second on the PvE challenge of the month. In those rooms we could maybe have manufacturing terminals with boosts, more favorable job terminals etc etc.

Maybe also we could have each winner able to redecorate the room too, via a friendly NPC stationed there.

Or have the winning guild able to run their own vendor at F7.

I read through a lot of the ideas here, sounded like there were some good ones - could I ask someone to go through and summarise all the suggestions into one post so we can see all the ideas?

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Thanks Ryle, for clearing that up. I'll modify the topic a bit, and try to summarize as Tinebau suggested.

Here are the main ideas and points that stood out to me.[list]
[*]The possibility of PvP loadouts
[*]Possibility of a Friendly or Non-com Tag (or until grouped in PVP area)
[*]Equipment is only usable/effective in PVP areas.
[*]No negatives to death by other players.
[/list]
PvP Sector:[list]
[*]PVP area has roids too, but worthless outside PVP area
[*]There should probably be a way to ensure non PVPers have no reason to venture to the PVP area (no better items, missions items, sps etc)
[*]Possible PVP class or max toon restricted to PVP area (no leveling)
[*]Suggestion of all things gained in PVP area stay in area if/when toon leaves
[/list]
Scenarios:[list]
[*]Base attacks -
[*]repair/defend base. Base adds some bonus to team for incentive to keep it alive.
[*]Possibility of battles raging for a long time (log on join battle, leave and it is still going on)
[*]Resource battles ( mininers trying to quickly mine while being defended by a fleet of other players)
[/list]
I hope that helps.
I also saw another thread at some point suggested a game in the PVP area where miners "mine" a ball and turn it into a sports game, trying to get the 'ball' to the net, where you would obviously have to be able to attack the other player. Edited by Dakynos
Summary added

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The "ball" sports game was the arena in live. Many ignored the game and just went on hunt and kill Player VS. Player. If memory serves correct there were 4..5? different maps in arena that would spawn, The event was timed. All would register with arena npc and it would try and match out teams evenly in set time, if it didn't find a team it wouldn't start, you could join in a group so you and 5 others could pregroup before joining so a guild or combat group would be clumped. Once in the instance/arena all would spawn in a "safe zone" a area were you couldn't attack or be attacked and if killed in conflict area would respawn. After a I think 1 maybe 2? minute start clock counted down the contest would commence. (this allowed for latency etc.)

The object of the game was soccer: get orbs of varying value to the goal(s)/safe zone. The different maps had different goal zones and orb spawn points. If you killed someone carrying a orb, they dropped it and you could tractor it and drive it to the goal. The highest value orbs were mined from outlying areas of the map, so you needed a miner to mine it and most cases a guard(s) to protect them while they did and drove it in.

At the end of the event the team with the highest net value of orbs in wins, at which point they were returned to the arena npc. Before they were returned to the NPC they could access a tote board showing team totals and player carries in order of rank. The team that won got xp allocated for the victory and the losers got I think half that, the xp was actually minimal like 5k C,E,T xp for a 135+ arena, with wait time, spawn time, and team build up a 15k total xp was really very little xp for time spent, you could make that much faster doing other things, so the non-pvpers didn't grouse much about "unfair advantages" for pvpers.

When you were accepted the "want to go to arena y/n" notice would query you and when you said yes the gear you had on at the time was what you wore in arena, but ammo users didn't have to expend ammo and there was no durabilty dmg from the conflict. If you had guns in the slot but no ammo in hold or in the guns you would be screwed, you needed at least 1 ammo in ea gun.

The arena were grouped in OL bands so L50 didn't have to hang with L135+, if I remember it was 20-49,50-74,75-99,100-134,135+

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[sub]If other than the original arena was to be used My vote would be other than a hunt and kill, something that uses a miner,trader,warrior mix, and DO have rewards that persisted outside the zone, but only cosmetic in nature. I.E. a nontradable token system that was npc redeemable for COSMETIC, nothing with better ROF or DPS etc, but had a tool tip that showed it was "earned" through a pvp route like say a :"Hellbore ML of the combatent" (this item was rewarded to the recipent by the Glenn commision for their steadfast defence of "x") or a special ship medalion like the old FF reward for beta testers, something to display and/or brag about, but nothing that gives a actual or percieved advantage outside pvp.[/sub]

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Yeah that sounds about right to me as well, the arena discription. I never played the ballgame, I only PvPed on my PW. Rarely did I fight anything but other PWs, a few TEs, and a rare JD.

Also IIRC the loadin wait was ridiculously long, like registration could take 5-10 minutes of just sitting there waiting. Even when you KNEW no one else was in there. One full PvP fight was easily a 30 minute time sink. Easily.

I mean the PvP community was tiny too, even on Andro. You had Sheldon, that Odinorion guy, myself, and a few others that made up the bulk of it. I have no idea who else even did it, but it was almost exclusively 1v1s. PvP just never took off in live on the biggest server.

Also im pretty sure the level restrictions were sector specific. Like one arena was the 135+, one was the little guys like 25-50 or whatever. I think it was the one in Carp or Slayton where the big hulls played. Edited by Ryle

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[quote name='Dakynos' timestamp='1328152700' post='52889']
Possibility of a Friendly or Non-com Tag (or until grouped in PVP area)[/quote]
Dakynos, Sir I just wanted to clarify my suggestion and communicate my idea on this idea I didn't want to be mis-quoted.

[quote name='Phorlaug' timestamp='1328037279' post='52819']
Also for the sake of making a Great PvP sector and to limit the Possibility of "Ganking" There could and should be a Friendly Tag or non-combatant for Like Race Players (Jenquai CAN NOT Attack Jenquai and Progen CAN NOT attack Progens etc etc) UNTILL THEY are IN a group in the PvP Galaxy. Mixed races / classes or not.[/quote]

Meaning ONLY that Progen can't be attacked by Progen etc etc. Jenquai Can still attack Progens etc etc. UNTIL Progens are grouped in different groups in this case. Like a Faction thing..
We have to find a way to limit or do away with Multi-PC or same account Character play in the PvP area.
Other wise we'll start seeing Multi characters on auto follow.

[i]Oh I think I see where we / I have a difference. Thats only because I didn't mention that there would and should be a Progen ONLY, a Terran ONLY and A Jenquai Only starting / Practice system after logging into the PvP zone, where by A Group will be needed to do PvP. :) Sorry for not clarifing..[/i]

TY
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[quote name='Ryle' timestamp='1328023150' post='52809']
To be clear, I started this thread, and then Dak dumped all the posts from the "player wipe" thread into this one.
Alot were dated/timestamped before my first post here, which clearly says I reposted it (it was the original thread starter anyway), so it looks like the convo was started here by Starbuck, lol. Thats just the posts from the other thread before mine. Why it did that ill never know.

So, I started the thread, then the Moderator dumped the offtopic posts from another thread here.

Hope that clears you two up on who started it =]
[/quote]

Thanks Ryle, +1 to you.

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Thanks for clarifying Phorlaug. I wasn't sure the purpose of you mentioning race PVP restrictions, but now your additional information makes it make sense :)

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[size=3][color="#000000"]hhhmm ? I'll try a post at another time, Forums are being nasty to me.[/color][/size]

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PVP +1

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Will having 1, 2, or a few PvP sectors affect how many PvE sectors are ultimately included in the game? I would hope not, but I think it's a good question to ask.

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