If Pvp Were Added - How To Make It Fun For All

[Algaron [BTL]]

[quote name='Phorlaug' timestamp='1336554082' post='57535']
I'll add to what you suggest.
There should not be a slash command for PvP, to have the option to turn it on and off at will even when being attacked and loosing. Not the escape we want.
[/quote]

Well actually in WoW you couldn't deflag yourself to avoid being attacked. You could turn off the PvP flag but it would still remain active for 5 minutes. This avoids the scenario you suggest. The slash command is the best and easiest way to flag yourself for PvP. I would highly recommend not adding devices or items that you need to haul around to activate PvP. This just adds more code needlessly - not to mention it takes up precious cargo space.

With a PvP flag, there would be no need to create a separate sector just for PvP as it would be Universe wide.Those players who wish to PvP could only attack other players who have tagged themselves for PvP - everyone else would be PvE and not affected at all. They couldn't be ganked by a PvP player and would appear like any other player in the game. Only flagged PvP players would be able to see other PvP players.

Now, there could also be the Arena where you would need to be flagged to enter. As this was already incorperated (but turned off atm) in sectors like Slayton, It shouldn't take much coding to implement the Arena in Slayton again. (I hope!)

My suggestion for Arena battles was to have a NPC inside the Arena where you could set 1vs1, 2vs2, or 6vs6 battles. The group leader of each side would talk to the npc, set the battle group size, and click ready. Once both group leaders were ready, a timer of say 30 sec or 1 min would start. Players could not attack each other until the countdown had finished. So upon entering the Arena player would not be able to attack until everyone was ready.

[Mimir[IS]]

Mim's revised PvP thoughts:

First I think PvP may have a place in EnB. I think Westwood had ideas of introducing PvP before they sold out to the evil assassins (EA). So with that in mind the only thing remains is to determine how it will be implemented. I think the only way to get it in game and keep coding to a reasonable level is to have the whole game a combination of PvP and PvE. I don''t like the "Flag" concept it may work in some games but it is too easy to take a shot at someone (One shot kill) and slap on your no PvP flag to avoid retribution from that player's guildies. So with that out of the way the idea of closed areas, closed rewards, closed ores sort of makes it soon get to the point of...What IS the point? I have uber gear that I can't use in a FB or other raid? That sucks...

If we go PvP the only areas for non PvP should be the starting areas for each of the races. You level your toon to 20 or more before you venture out in the nasty real world. It is like this already as the NPC mobs don't care if you are only a level 20 or lower...for example you go to Cooper at your own risk.

Reward... the higher the risk the higher the reward...Bragging rights are all wonderful and all, but it only goes so far. So what if I put the hurt on Sneaky's PW and win a one v one? The only two that will ever know is Sneaky and me. So I suggest that there be some damage to the loser that will be worth it to the victor. For example equipment damage, loss of cargo to the victor. Award points that can be used to upgrade equipment or trade in for training points.

There should be two additional areas of non PvP, gates and stations and a buffer area around each. Other than that it should be open season. Shooting someone out of warp could be a special PvP reward but in general not possible. This way missions can still be done with little risk.

But in saying this it is going to get ugly, there will be ganking and there will be rage quitting. All you have to do is visit games with PvP now if you don't think that that is true.

The strong will pick on the weak, the weak will either get stronger or quit. But if this is what the majority of players want I am all for it.

[Riz]

if that type of PvP get introduced, I see max exodus out of the EMU in it's future. Griefing, ganking, etc will not bode well for keeping enough of a playerbase to finance the project, and thus would spell the end of it. The only ways to keep it afloat and ave PvP would be seperate server (extra costs and too much division amongst the players),or flags.

No a simple soution to the situation you mentioned Mimir is a timer. If you participate in a PvP action, and survive the server puts a cooldown timer on your toon and you CANNOT turn PvP off until it has expired. I doubt to many PvPers would find this objectionble as they are all about the PvP it appears.

[Mimir[IS]]

I think there will be a mass exodus anyway. But that's just me...If there are enough die-hard PvPers to keep the game afloat that's great. My post was mostly a resignation on trying to keep PvP from the game. The whole concept as described above is not going to satisfy any who have played PvP in any other game. And the only way to keep PvPers happy (if they are being honest) is to have open PvP. The closed sector will be all well and good for a short time but will soon become too restrictive and human nature being what it is they will want more.

[Riz]

I also would like to see PvP stay out of E&B. Those of us who love it enough t bring it back ad/or play it again did not have serious PP before, and I suspect most of us did not want it then or now. Honesty, if they bring back the arenas I may use them from time to time, but thats because I am not a serious PvPer. If I wanna kill other players, I play a FPS.

[Algaron [BTL]]

Well I don't forsee the scenario you all talked about. I agree that the best way is to combine PvP/PvE on one server. It is the simplest to implement and the least amount of coding. I[b] do not[/b] agree with your idea that it would be to easy to take a shot at a player and turn off the flag the avoid retribution. As I have already stated, there would be a timer, in which PvP would still be active even after turning off your Flag, for a period of time. 5 minutes or 30 minutes - there would be a cooldown timer where you simply wouldn't be able to do what you envision, unless of course you /quit. Quitting while tagged PvP would register an immediate loss in your win/loss count.

PvP should be it's own reward, and bragging rights is for the vain. However, if you need your ego assuaged, a simple server wide message would be displayed stating "Player X has defeated Player Y most brutally!". As well rewards obtained thru PvP could only be used for PvP. There would be no 'uber' gear you could take into Fishbowl for example. It doesn't 'suck' Mimir, that you don't get uber gear for raids. That isnt the point of PvP. The point of PvP isn't to get uber gear you could use in any other raid. The point of PvP is just that - to PvP, and the reward is the satisfaction of owing another toon.

The rewards could be handled via the Arena NPC - either a one time win resulting in a cash reward, or a turn-in of points to purchase any PvP gear. There shouldn't be any damage to equipment during PvP.

As for grieving and ganking, my goodness , its PVP for pete's sake. If you don't want to get ganked... don't PvP!?! Of course the strong will pick on the weak!
There [b]will not[/b] be a 'mass exodus' from EnB or 'rage quitting', perhaps the player will leave PvP with his tail between his legs, but to quit the game because you got owned by another player? I don't think so. PvP is totally self inflicted, so if you have rage because of it... well uh turn off PvP and don't play it anymore.

It's a pretty simple concept really. For the majority of players you will not even notice there is PvP going on. The only people affected by having PvP on the Play server is those who choose to PvP period. Items would be tagged as 'PvP Only', meaning you need to have yourself flagged before you could even install any of the devices, or if already installed and you turn off the flag, the device deactivates.

I have played on PvP servers a lot in other games. For example in Warcraft my cloth armored mage was ganked relentlessly by rogues with their sap / backstab. I didn't quit because I got owned, for I CHOSE to play that way. I did moan and pout because I got owned, I did turn off my PvP flag occasionally, but I never quit the game because of it.

[Mimir[IS]]

[quote name='Algaron' timestamp='1336598009' post='57564']
...and the reward is the satisfaction of owning another toon.
...
[/quote]

I think you made my point, thank you.

[Vitaes]

Why does everyone want to make this hard? Just impliment a sector that flags you for PvP once you enter. if you don't want to PvP, don't enter the sector. Simple.

[Algaron [BTL]]

Exactly Vitaes, I would go so far as to suggest you don't even need to create a sector for PvP. Just flip the switch [ /pvp on] and you're playing pvp. The only sector needed is already coded with the Arena. It just needs to be implemented. It already exists. I dont understand these Negative Nellies and their opposition to PvP. If you don't want to play PvP... don't.

And Mimir, I don't know what point you think I made for you. Could you explain?

[Mimir[IS]]

Two actually one about "[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]As for grieving and ganking, my goodness [/font][/color] [color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif], its PVP for pete's sake. If you don't want to get ganked... don't PvP!?! Of course the strong will pick on the weak! [/font][/color] "

And the other is the point of "owning another player". This comment makes no sense whatsoever when you say it is NOT about bragging rights... "[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]PvP should be it's own reward, and bragging rights is for the vain." So what is the point?[/font][/color]

Until you can tell me that a PS or any other non warrior class has a snowballs chance against a PW it will be exactly that. G[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]rieving [/font][/color]and ganking for those that can and those that are stupid enough to NOT make a PW or what ever massively unbalanced character you pick to make others game less enjoyable.

What an incredible thoughtless comment about the strong picking on the weak ....... That sounds like a load of fun to me... let's go smack some noob just exiting their starting area....man that sounds like fun and a challenge too...don't you think?


And isn't it going to be great fun with all PWs in a game? damn it sure sounds like a great time to me.

I think it is time to open up a poll and actively get everyone in to express their feelings on it.

[Algaron [BTL]]

well one if you are a noob exiting the starting sector and you turn on pvp flag you deserve to smacked. That's the silliest thing I have ever heard. It wouldn't happen at all so don't be going there. I gather you arent interested in playing PvP. So don't. Like I said if you want PvP play it - if you don't want PvP don't bother with it - it will not affect you in the least. Leave the flag off and continue on as you normally would.

I said 'owning another player is it's own reward" I didn't say it was the only reward. I suggested that the Arena be used to issue rewards as in cash or points used to buy PvP gear. The point of PvP is to test yourself against another player. If I was a PS and saw a PW coming at me and I didn't think I would 'have a snowball's chance', I would get my toon out of there. Mind you it is meant to test you skills against another toon. I would love to take my JD out against a PW to see how I faired. Thats the fun part about it. If I owned a PS I would try to see how I faired against a TE. Each class has skills and PvP is a great way to test yourself against something that wasnt coded with some AI, but was unpredictable.

Anyways like I said before - PvP could be set up that would have no impact on the rest of the PVE community. As for polls, I doubt that would shed any light on the subject -if you are a PvP hater nothing will change your mind and yet having PvP via the flag option wouldnt affect you in the least so why bother having your opinion on the matter.

[Mimir[IS]]

[quote name='Algaron' timestamp='1336608031' post='57594']
well one if you are a noob exiting the starting sector and you turn on pvp flag you deserve to smacked. That's the silliest thing I have ever heard. It wouldn't happen at all so don't be going there. I gather you arent interested in playing PvP. So don't. Like I said if you want PvP play it - if you don't want PvP don't bother with it - it will not affect you in the least. Leave the flag off and continue on as you normally would.

I said 'owning another player is it's own reward" I didn't say it was the only reward. I suggested that the Arena be used to issue rewards as in cash or points used to buy PvP gear. The point of PvP is to test yourself against another player. If I was a PS and saw a PW coming at me and I didn't think I would 'have a snowball's chance', I would get my toon out of there. Mind you it is meant to test you skills against another toon. I would love to take my JD out against a PW to see how I faired. Thats the fun part about it. If I owned a PS I would try to see how I faired against a TE. Each class has skills and PvP is a great way to test yourself against something that wasnt coded with some AI, but was unpredictable.

Anyways like I said before - PvP could be set up that would have no impact on the rest of the PVE community. As for polls, I doubt that would shed any light on the subject -if you are a PvP hater nothing will change your mind and yet having PvP via the flag option wouldnt affect you in the least so why bother having your opinion on the matter.
[/quote]

At least you explained it in a manner that didn't show you in a less than flattering light. Like it or not Ganking and Grieving are not a real good things to use to promote PvP in a game that traditionally did not have it

LOL I can just see it now... Play EnB join in the PvP fun!! Come grief and gank players and get grieved and ganked in return...best fun you will ever have.

[Algaron [BTL]]

Well just to add another point. There could be ways to set PvP with even more restrictions. Say for example you need to be L150 before you could set the flag. Personally I wouldnt want to be flying around trying to level up and have some awesome JD sneak up and unload all his beams on me.

I just think it wouldn't be a difficult thing to do set up for those who enjoy matching their skills against another player. Creating a new sector just for PvP is an option but I don't believe it would be necessary.

I harken back to WoW where I have watched a rogue decimate a mage, and then watched another mage school a rogue. Its all about how one plays the class. Mind you if your PS is getting chewed up fighting a PW or JD, group with another player and teach those warriors a lesson.

[Mimir[IS]]

I really do enjoy PvP but not (obviously) for the same reasons. But if we are going to have PvP we should have PvP. I think there should be some ground rules that if not followed there should be consequences, attacking a lower level player (who may want to play in the PvP sandbox with same level players) should be out of bounds. Or a lower level player should have a "Death Blossom" usable until they reach such a level to enable them to have a chance against a 150 PW that may be having a bad day. A Death Blossom would give the upperclassman a second thought about attacking a no contest opponent.

I also thing the rewards need to be across the board you kill an equal opponent the loser looses something make it worth going into PvP mode. You lose PvP you get a 10% decrease in your equipment quality.

LOL the more I think of a Death Blossom the more I like it. A 150 PW jumps a 58 JE...Death Blossom time... Damn I won't do that again... the Death Blossom could have a random chance of not firing so as to not make it a done deal.

Make it interesting make it different... If it is the same as every other kid on the block why bother? If it is just to test your mettle .against another player the game has that...already. The arena No need to expend countless man hours to make YAYFPG (Yet Another Yawn Fest PvP Game).

Admit it most implementations get very boring after the same old same old. As soon as the tactics are learned it will be just like the current raids...yawn!!!

[Algaron [BTL]]

To solve that issue. Only L150 players can PvP. I don't think we need to have equipment damaged or xp debt either. It would be bad enough you got your butt handed to you - why add insult to injury.

I think the best way is that in the normal universe, a message would be displayed server wide. "Algaron has defeated Mimir. All hail Algaron!" or some such thing. And if you feel to need to vanquish my toon you can group up with another PW and challenge me in the Arena. Here you can choose to have money as your reward or accept points or tokens towards purchasing a PvP device - which would be NM/NT and unique with the PvP Only restriction. Perhaps a tag would be added ranking PvP players next to your guild tag. I can see lots of potential for PvP players that wouldn't affect the general community at all, but still give those players who enjoy testing their skills against another player the opportunity to do so.

[nexis]

Well if we are going in that direction we should think about adding Guild V Guild wars. Credit fee for war decking a guild and renewing the dec. I think that the pvp only section is the best route but we could add some new missions that take you via that route, These missions would warn you and be more rewarding. Anyway something to think about.

Nexis

[Vitaes]

Again, people are making this too damn hard. Go into one sector and you are flagged for PvP, at any level. There is no need to go there for any other reason. If you don't want PvP, don't go.

And to Mimir, if you think PW's would own in PvP, guess again. Players WILL come up with tactics to take down PW's. Heck, I'd worry more about a PP than a PW. And from my long experience with PvP, you won't see all that many straight up one-to-one fights anyway if we have any kind of server population.

[Mimir[IS]]

[quote name='Vitaes' timestamp='1336644491' post='57624']
Again, people are making this too damn hard. Go into one sector and you are flagged for PvP, at any level. There is no need to go there for any other reason. If you don't want PvP, don't go.

And to Mimir, if you think PW's would own in PvP, guess again. Players WILL come up with tactics to take down PW's. Heck, I'd worry more about a PP than a PW. And from my long experience with PvP, you won't see all that many straight up one-to-one fights anyway if we have any kind of server population.
[/quote]

Like I said, if you are putting in PvP just because everyone else has it and you can you are missing the boat imho. I believe that as soon as the newness of it wears off you will find it is just like WoW or POTBS, or EVE...fun for a bit but then what?

Do what you will, but remember that the funding comes from donations and something that has this much emotion attached to it could be the death blow to the project.

[Algaron [BTL]]

That sounds pretty apocalyptical.

Let's say for the sake of argument, that on the next server restart the devs had decided to open up the arena in Slayton, and that there was now an option to PvP via the flagging system. You can now use the slash command: [b]/pvp on [/b]to turn on PvP since it is[b] off [/b]by default. You learn that you need be a Level 150 toon in order to activate PvP. Could you activate PvP? Would you activate PvP? Or would you carry on as you normally would. Perhaps you aren't into PvP and just as soon not bother with it. How would your game be affected by not turning on the PvP flag?

I played on a PvP server for 7 years, and I must say, it may have lost some newness sure. It was an integral part of the game. But it never lost it's excitement knowing that at any moment some player was going to come running at me with wild eyes! It was fight or flight and that's what made it fun. There were times when while engaged in PvP battle, a mob would show up and start working one of us over, or my opponent's buddy would suddenly appear from nowhere. It was unfortunate if I ran into a party that was bent on destruction.

Of course, there were times when I didn't want all that fun and excitement, so I disabled PvP and forgot about it. There was no emotion attached.

Here is the thing. What harm would come to player that decided not to join ? How would his game be any different than yesterday, or last week? Mobs will still act the same, ores will still be in the same spot. You still have to travel thru Dahin to get to Antares. You may notice a couple of players duking it out over there, but that's no concern to you.

There could be so much potential for PvP, from reputation, rewards, cash or xp to new devices, tags, tournaments, glory!

I don't think the PvP community wants to have PvP to keep up with the Jones. It has more to do with it being a fun element of some MMO's. If you could share your concerns about our missing boat and what solution you may have, that would be great.

[Mimir[IS]]

Use of the W word below.......... read at your own peril














Here is the deal...the game is only 60 to 70% back to what it was at sunset (not counting the additional classes) granted there have been some tweaks and additions, but to keep any interest in level 150 players the raids need to be at a minimum back to where it was at sunset. In my opinion there is a way to go before that day happens, unless the two group raid minimum is considered complete.

If so and the game is as it will be at release (beta) and no additional content needs to be finished then I guess the addition of PvP would be the next logical step. But there is a problem I see with level 150 only being able to play PvP. If and when the game goes to beta there will be the W word to contend with (if it is going to happen).

There will be a drop off in players there just because people will get pissy (not having had a wipe in so long). I really think there will be an eventual influx of players back into the game knowing that this will be the last? wipe.

Here is the issue...it will take time to get enough level 150 players back to the numbers to make PvP viable (level 150 only PvP area). By the time there are enough players to make it interesting the diehards that rushed to get to 150 to PvP will own the area and those that enjoy other areas of the game and may want to PvP will be S.O.L. or as you said "grieved and ganked as part of the game before they even can know what to expect.

If what you have said in most of your posts is that two players duking it out or want to challenge another player to see if you have the right stuff, there is the arenas. As I remember you could get teams in them but they really were not used all that much.

[HellHasArrived]

I like the idea of PvP... I can see both sides of the argument as it being good idea, and being a bad idea depending on how it's implemented. I like a few of the other people in this thread think that in this stage of the game it might not be the best of time to add it, BUT I would love to see how I would stack up against other people rather than mobs. The flag idea is nice but as Mimir stated earlier, and it makes sense. You could sneak up kill someone then turn your flag off so the other person wouldn't be able to seek retribution. I also like the PvP sector as well, and also think it could eat up the little bit of time and resources the Devs already have implementing that.

[firemann30]

As the discussion of PVP goes. A sector that is dedicated to PVPing is the best way to go. As far as another player pawning another player by turning flag on then off again. To eliminate that. You can institute a timer of 5-10 min after flag turned off the player can still be engaged in pvp.

[Vitaes]

[quote name='lordfalcon' timestamp='1336677316' post='57634']
As the discussion of PVP goes. A sector that is dedicated to PVPing is the best way to go. As far as another player pawning another player by turning flag on then off again. To eliminate that. You can institute a timer of 5-10 min after flag turned off the player can still be engaged in pvp.
[/quote]

The best way to eliminate flags is not to have them. Flagging would not be needed anyway if you get a whole sector for PvP.

[Ryle [N7R]]

Less forum PvP moar coming at me bro.

/pvp

[Vitaes]

Mimir, I don't think people want PvP because other games have it. From my perspective at least, this game, with all the different skills that the classes bring to the table, has the potential to be a blast in PvP (no pun intended). No need to wait for 150 to PvP either. And, once and for all, the people who go ingame and brag about how tough class X or class Y is can finally prove it (or prove how much they suck at PvP, lol). Given the sheer amount of gear in this game, who really is the best? What do you equip in your device slots? What buffs are relaly important? Can you afford to swap out a device that gives better deflects against a damage type during combat? We can find out...