Hulks! What now?

[r8rsfans75]

I guess its true what they say, you can't miss what you never had. I can only prospect about up to lvl 6 right now, and the lvl 4,5,6 hulks were always gone or had crap in them by the time I got to them, I got a bunch of lvl 2 proto stuff, but never had a need for that and frankly haven't even checked to see if that has been taken away (doesn't really matter to me one way or the other).

I was happy to find a new roid field in Inverness with a few new guardians. I guess I'm getting accustomed to the fact that we are a loooooong way off from any significant new content (ie: V'rix, Mordana, Der Tode, etc), so I'm just going to be content with what's out there right now, remember this is still a stress test, and roll with the punches.

[Zyrith Skye]

I did find it odd that some fields were consistently better than others in terms of the rarity of items available in them. I can only guess that some stuff that was found was never supposed to be there.

[Lot]

I hope the experiment worked out for the developers.

May be a bit OTT removing any items and recipes from players that had them.

I've heard rumors from a BETA that the "incredible hulks" may return to VG by spawning at random locations. Really hope this isn't true because it's not a great mechanic. It underestimates players willingness or should I say desperation to find those "incredible hulks" no matter how the odds are stacked. It will lead to more camping and misery.

I hope asteroid fields everywhere will eventually get a chance to spawn a hulk that might contain a non-prototype item.

[fuulishone]

I hope the experiment worked out for the developers.

May be a bit OTT removing any items and recipes from players that had them.

I've heard rumors from a BETA that the "incredible hulks" may return to VG by spawning at random locations. Really hope this isn't true because it's not a great mechanic. It underestimates players willingness or should I say desperation to find those "incredible hulks" no matter how the odds are stacked. It will lead to more camping and misery.

I hope asteroid fields everywhere will eventually get a chance to spawn a hulk that might contain a non-prototype item.

Limiting such super hulks to a single zone, even if the location randomly rotates within the zone, is poor design to be sure and makes it easy to camp. Expanding to an entire large scale system (such the whole of Aragoth or Beta Hydri for example) would be much better and give a lot more diversity. Ideally if every hulk field has a random and rare chance to spawn a super hulk once in a blue moon, that would help a lot in making the "explorer" part of the miner classes fun.

It also needs to be said that these super hulks should *never* contain things that aren't obtainable in other in game ways. For example... allowing various DT only drops to be extracted from hulks is poor game balance. But allowing devices that are farmable from RDs would be okay for most folks as it's not game-breaking. It allows miners to obtain things that are otherwise only obtainable by stronger combat types.

[Terrell [BT]]

I agree with Lot and Fuulish. I do think that there should be some hidden hulk fields, and as Tyran mentioned, move them around every few patches, but I also think that most asteroid fields should have some hulks in them as well. I think we should keep the half-eaten space suits, the way they were introduced and don't forget to have the Gene-Maps for PEs to turn in at the Gene-Repository in Endriago.

As for items, there should be occasional pieces of level apropriate items in some hulks, not sure what the percentages should be but it should be less than the "junk" loot. I don't really think of the Space Suits that could be turned in for faction as Junk, they should probably be slightly less common than "junk" loot. As for junk loot the tiles they put in, the landing struts, and other level apropriate things were good. L2 Wreckage Slag in L8 hulks was a bad thing in Live, the new "junk" is better as an explorer can still get Trade XP for vendoring it.

I think that a hulk field should have better chances of finding some sweet item than hulks that are mixed with asteroids, but such fields with higher payouts should be harder to find whether they're hulks or asteroids.

Overall I like the improvements that Mr Merlin made to the orefields and hulks. I also like that Manes don't seem to be as common guarding the orefields as before, which IMO is an improvement, at least from a JE's perspective.

[sunvillage]

It also needs to be said that these super hulks should *never* contain things that aren't obtainable in other in game ways. For example... allowing various DT only drops to be extracted from hulks is poor game balance. But allowing devices that are farmable from RDs would be okay for most folks as it's not game-breaking. It allows miners to obtain things that are otherwise only obtainable by stronger combat types.

On the contrary.

The idea of the hulks was to get items in game, that can't be obtained yet, because systems, mobs or even vendors aren't finished.

I think when you search for Merlins posts, you may find that this is what he had in mind (he may also have said this in game chat).

What those hulks should never, ever contain is items that can be obtained by other means. And certainly not in a quality that is unheard of from normal mob/boss drops. It totally takes the incentive out of building a group and going after a boss to get an item.

Why should I, when I can pull that item from a hulk at 180%?

[fuulishone]

@Shuzun

I think some clarification/conditions may need to be applied to merge our views. When I say "should never" I mean that it doesn't make sense for things like Hellfire Ballista, SunFocus 2000, Dung Flinger to be found in hulks. That breaks the incentive to raid for them later.

For things that can be obtained otherwise, like Controller or GoBB loot, they shouldn't be mineable at a quality higher than you can loot. They should simply be 100% and leave it at that. The prototype gear is only obtainable from hulks and tradeable, so these can safely be variable quality without being game breaking. Being able to pull a 180% Skull 9 out of a hulk tho... That just smacks of inbalance to me and potentially a cause for dispute, frustration and loss of player base.

Why would you want to hunt mobs for drops when you can camp spawns? Well firstly you don't make the hulks campable. They should be random throughout the game universe, and thus really become jackpot hulks more than anything. Just sheer pure good luck from exploring. Secondly, mobs have well known spawn timers and it becomes a matter of perseverance to obtain a certain drop since drops are random, luck-based. The same would need to apply to hulks. No guarantee, and the majority should contain slag, parts, etc. Only a very small percentage should have a chance to be "jackpot."

There's a fine line in balancing what should or shouldn't be obtainable from hulks. IMHO, the prototype gear and basic devices from the major npc lines (Sundari, GetCO, etc.) are fine. Raid level gear... Not really such a good idea.

If the original intent was to have a way to introduce certain pieces of gear to TEST without having to finalize the mobs that would ultimately be the correct way to obtain said items, then fine. But someone should've said so on the forums, and clarified that at the end of the test they'd be removed. The way this was handled was most controversial to say the least.

Overall I like the improvements that Mr Merlin made to the orefields and hulks. I also like that Manes don't seem to be as common guarding the orefields as before, which IMO is an improvement, at least from a JE's perspective.

I want to highlight this. Overall the non-super hulks were great. I liked the variety of non-keeper loot, and I LOVE the suits simply for the fact they're useful for leveling alts, getting trade xp in alternative ways, and gaining some faction while doing it. More of this type of hulk in the 7-9 range would be appreciated.

It's the super hulks that seem to have everyone up in arms, let's keep that in mind.

[sunvillage]

Fuulish, 100% agree.

I think I read more into your post than you intended (well, or less).

It definetly was the uber hulks that pretty much disturbed me.

Well in a way also the prototype stuff. I see a tendency in my guild that low level builds get neglected because of prototype items, that automatically are deemed better than even player made items - and often are.

It took the incentive away from new players to invest in building. But that's another topic.

I support the idea of random hulks.

We can go a step further and use them as an incentive against the dreaded Cherrypicking.

Is it possible to implement a *chance* that a hulk spawns when an ore field gets cleaned?

("Look what was hidden there under all those rocks")

Of course not always, just a certain percentage

[fuulishone]

It definetly was the uber hulks that pretty much disturbed me.

Well in a way also the prototype stuff. I see a tendency in my guild that low level builds get neglected because of prototype items, that automatically are deemed better than even player made items - and often are.

I think this is something that builders need to educate folks on. This is one of those, not all protos are better. Everyone's gear situation is different and may or may not need the buffs that come with player built items. I hear ya though and this is something that may be addressed later with further balancing of stats.

Is it possible to implement a *chance* that a hulk spawns when an ore field gets cleaned?

("Look what was hidden there under all those rocks")

Of course not always, just a certain percentage

Now *this* I absolutely love. The field clear bonus is a super hulk. There's still the potential for contention/abuse where you may have a wrongdoer waiting for the hulk to spawn and ninja it from those that worked diligently to clear the field. Something that needs to be thought out more carefully, but a very nice bonus for miners behaving in a "proper" way.

[Mimir[IS]]

As much as I enjoyed the hulk fields, I am sooooo glad they are gone. In live as I remember it a hulk was a mostly rare occurrence. This could be the number of players on and I was just slow to get to the fields, but I really don’t think so. If they are brought back, please make them special, rare and sparse.

[seekeronos]

Now *this* I absolutely love. The field clear bonus is a super hulk. There's still the potential for contention/abuse where you may have a wrongdoer waiting for the hulk to spawn and ninja it from those that worked diligently to clear the field. Something that needs to be thought out more carefully, but a very nice bonus for miners behaving in a "proper" way.

Can time-limited set of permissions be set on that hulk a spawns to be "owned" by whoever (or which ever members of a given group) that cleared more than the majority of asteroids or gas clouds (or a plurality in the case of numerous miners present)...?

That could help alleviate ninja looting of hulks.

[Calmus]

yeah the AA handling will be in game at the next content sync at the start of October (hopefully).

We have to change the weighting system very slightly to make them less common, and make sure the actual ancient artifacts aren't in the hulks, only an unidentified artifact you need to take to Ayoko.

With the hulks spawning infrequently they are quite precious, just like in live.

There are a few nice surprises in store for hulk items later on too, I'm sure Merlin will keep you posted as and when they are added.

I have found a few unidentified ancient artifacts and visited many NPCs but have not found one that will identify them for me. Any suggestions?

[Zyrith Skye]

I found a 161% Black Force IX just before last night's reboot. It was a single hulk and I got a clear field bonus, so I don't know if someone mined out the field and missed one or it was just a solitary hulk that spawned. In any case there are still diamonds in the rough.

I'm not going to publicly give out the location... But I will say that it wasn't in BBW.

[Phamine]

was just curious about the "Half-Eaten Alien Spacesuit's"

[r8rsfans75]

I have a bunch of AA in my vault on my JE along with a bunch of proto stuff (going to have to create a vault toon soon I think). Last I heard it was going to be awhile before the NPC's that analyze these things get put back into the game.

On another note is Merlin still around?

[Balderhagen]

I got a bunch of AAs lvl 1-4 too, some riods in AB? decided to trop them everytime lol

[seekeronos]

@Merlin (or whomever else is tracking this) :

Any hope that the Mah Jong tiles or some other hulk junk could be used to trade to a pirate/RD NPC for some much desired RD faction?

Because for a miner, this would beat the tar out of trying to kill 9000+ Chavez lowbies (since BBW drones are no longer an option)

[Terrell [BT]]

@Merlin (or whomever else is tracking this) :

Any hope that the Mah Jong tiles or some other hulk junk could be used to trade to a pirate/RD NPC for some much desired RD faction?

Because for a miner, this would beat the tar out of trying to kill 9000+ Chavez lowbies (since BBW drones are no longer an option)

i agree with this, but I also think that starting at -9K for any faction, is a bit excessive. A turn in type of thing would make getting RD less of a pain. (maybe there could be some loot that does the same with RD, for the non-explorers)

[Noxmire]

I support the idea of Mahjongg tiles being used for RD faction. As for mob drops, perhaps Chavez-themed stuff? (Chavez Herbal Remedy, Chavez PictoZine, etc.)? People kill Chavez for RD faction anyway, might as well let 'em benefit two ways at once - or maybe trade Chavez loot to other people as a commodity for those who want RD faction but don't want to kill Chavez.

Make an economy out of it!

[CptGemini]

I support the idea of Mahjongg tiles being used for RD faction. As for mob drops, perhaps Chavez-themed stuff? (Chavez Herbal Remedy, Chavez PictoZine, etc.)? People kill Chavez for RD faction anyway, might as well let 'em benefit two ways at once - or maybe trade Chavez loot to other people as a commodity for those who want RD faction but don't want to kill Chavez.

Make an economy out of it!

As do I, overall I am very happy with the way the hulks are turning out. My only beef is that once the game progresses on and starts to get a larger player base the spawn times for hulk fields will be rediculous.Earlier this evening I spent about 4 hours sitting in one sector doing nothing waiting for them to respawn since I had nothing else to do. I just certainly hope it would be tuned down just a little bit because IMO at the current state its just a slight bit much because everyone and their mother farms them for a lot of the loot they drop like the tiles and other themed items.

[skitszo]

bump or make this a sticky....or right on the suits ingame where to to turn them in for faction. took me awhile to look this up...guess i have to write in in my captains log...but i didn't see this post in the mining threads and its about to fall off this thread to where won't be easy to find.

[garblesoup]

bump or make this a sticky....or right on the suits ingame where to to turn them in for faction. took me awhile to look this up...guess i have to write in in my captains log...but i didn't see this post in the mining threads and its about to fall off this thread to where won't be easy to find.

Totally agree!

[Yuritau]

I love mining hulks.. but I have to say.. I'm getting sick of the prototypes. Can we maybe have some other equipment in there too? Like maybe some of the things that don't currently drop in game? like Dolphin Tail L6, Vega MCG-4, as two examples.. They're not unavailable because of any storyline (that I know of), they simply don't drop.

[Kenu [CDEV]]

as time goes on we will implement better hulk tables. This will probably mean a much wider variety of items (more junk and more good items), removal of any quest/boss drops in hulks, and changing drop rates of hulk to vary depending on usefulness (so the nice stuff doesn't drop as often as it is- remember prototypes were pretty rare in live)

[Terrell [BT]]

as time goes on we will implement better hulk tables. This will probably mean a much wider variety of items (more junk and more good items), removal of any quest/boss drops in hulks, and changing drop rates of hulk to vary depending on usefulness (so the nice stuff doesn't drop as often as it is- remember prototypes were pretty rare in live)

This would be good. I'm quite okay with the removal of boss drops from hulks, same with things you get from doing things like the Zach missions (the recipe rewards), the Mars Construction Project (after the improved rewards), the Lyle McDonald missions for JE & PE. Sometimes in Live hulks would also have refined ores in them. Would be a nice additional thing to put in hulk tables.

Looking forward to seeing what equipment outside of prototype gear will be available in hulks. I hope to see some new equipment that wasn't around in Live. Devices for the 3 new classes as well as explorers could be nice to add into the hulk loot tables, since all 3 explorers can build devices, but other equipment that can be sold to other players for credits or traded to alts to be printed would be nice too. I like the space suits that were added, those are nice for working on faction and give good XP rewards.

When the Mars Construction Project comes back, likely during the V'rix war, please put in all the items that were available at the end of Live so that explorers will find mining the ores needed for said project more rewarding than it was when it was first entered. The Terran Explorers will need some items for them, since JE & PE were already covered.