Yuritau Posted May 14, 2010 Report Share Posted May 14, 2010 Ever since I started playing this game (towards the end of beta), people have found a way to be annoyed at ammo building. Builders get annoyed because it takes a lot more time/clicks than building anything else. Ammo users that can't build get annoyed cause they have to get someone else to do it for them. Jenquai get annoyed cause the dude who was making combat easy has to take a break to go build more ammo. So I have a suggestion: remove ammo building from the Build Weapons skill. Instead, tie it to both the relevant weapon skill, and also trade level. Then you could build your relevant ammo up to the level of your weapon skill, IF your trade level was high enough to have an equivalent level of build skill. For example, if you have the Missile Weapon skill at say L5, you can build any missile ammo up to L5 as long as your TL is at least 25. Second example, just because: If you have PLs at L8, you can build any Projectile Ammo up to L8, as long as your TL is 45+. That way, anyone that needs ammo, can just build it themselves. AND, if you don't need ammo, you can't! And since ammo building always has a 200% output, why make people spend valuable SP on it? Another (probably easier to implement) option would be to simply make ammo a generic build, not associated with a particular skill, instead based off your current highest build skill. I prefer my first suggestion though. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heirkusan Posted May 14, 2010 Report Share Posted May 14, 2010 (edited) Ever since I started playing this game (towards the end of beta), people have found a way to be annoyed at ammo building. Builders get annoyed because it takes a lot more time/clicks than building anything else. Ammo users that can't build get annoyed cause they have to get someone else to do it for them. Jenquai get annoyed cause the dude who was making combat easy has to take a break to go build more ammo. So I have a suggestion: remove ammo building from the Build Weapons skill. Instead, tie it to both the relevant weapon skill, and also trade level. Then you could build your relevant ammo up to the level of your weapon skill, IF your trade level was high enough to have an equivalent level of build skill. For example, if you have the Missile Weapon skill at say L5, you can build any missile ammo up to L5 as long as your TL is at least 25. Second example, just because: If you have PLs at L8, you can build any Projectile Ammo up to L8, as long as your TL is 45+. That way, anyone that needs ammo, can just build it themselves. AND, if you don't need ammo, you can't! And since ammo building always has a 200% output, why make people spend valuable SP on it? Another (probably easier to implement) option would be to simply make ammo a generic build, not associated with a particular skill, instead based off your current highest build skill. I prefer my first suggestion though. So essentially same (almost) but still would take time. Just gives non-ammo makers the ability Edited May 14, 2010 by Heirku Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bondct Posted May 14, 2010 Report Share Posted May 14, 2010 /signed... but good luck... I been saying they should do away with ammo or let everyone build it forever... but I still approve this message Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghent96 Posted May 14, 2010 Report Share Posted May 14, 2010 ...or, just consider that maybe JE, PE, TE were not meant to use ammo-based weapons as their primary choice Sure, they _can_ use them, if they want, but the trade-off, the sacrifice, the balance of this choice is the cargo space taken up by ammo and the need to take breaks in combat to have ammo made for them. The trade-off and balance for warrior & trader classes is both in ammo space in the cargo vs. loot space, and in the time & cost to build the ammo, vs the superior damage and range of these weapons. If a PW for example, chooses to go out on a long period of combat-only gameplay, then they must load up their cargo full with ammo if they don't want to have any breaks in the action. This means no loot, no Trade XP. The PW will only get combat XP and looted credits, but will get quite a bit of combat XP. Balance. Trade-offs pro & con. It works. The PW could have chosen to equip beams instead, but they sacrifice range, and overall damage ability and skill useage (less free reactor available after beam use). Probably best to leave as it is for now 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bondct Posted May 14, 2010 Report Share Posted May 14, 2010 (edited) double post I still approve the OP msg Edited July 23, 2010 by Avani Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cilis Posted May 14, 2010 Report Share Posted May 14, 2010 Would it be possible to add option to build stacks of ammo. For example, 20 stacks with one click of a button instead of having the ammo builder sitting there clicking for 20 times? How about increasing the ammo per stack in the cargo holds but ammo that can be loaded stays the same? Or just have the ammo increased to maybe 1000 per stack? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vinzent Zeppelin[IS] Posted May 14, 2010 Report Share Posted May 14, 2010 Would it be possible to add option to build stacks of ammo. For example, 20 stacks with one click of a button instead of having the ammo builder sitting there clicking for 20 times? This would require modification of the client -- outside the development team's capabilities. How about increasing the ammo per stack in the cargo holds but ammo that can be loaded stays the same? Or just have the ammo increased to maybe 1000 per stack? Riia addressed this here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyran Posted May 14, 2010 Report Share Posted May 14, 2010 and what about the JD... arguably the best solo killer in the game where is your trade off there... JD's are like angry midgets you keep at bay by holding their head with one hand and laugh. Short range weapons and level 8 shields = even loller than TS. The more you post about TS shortcomings Avani, the more I feel there is a prettyboy jenquai hiding inside you waiting to come out Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egiedzin Posted May 14, 2010 Report Share Posted May 14, 2010 ...or, just consider that maybe JE, PE, TE were not meant to use ammo-based weapons as their primary choice Sure, they _can_ use them, if they want, but the trade-off, the sacrifice, the balance of this choice is the cargo space taken up by ammo and the need to take breaks in combat to have ammo made for them. The trade-off and balance for warrior & trader classes is both in ammo space in the cargo vs. loot space, and in the time & cost to build the ammo, vs the superior damage and range of these weapons. If a PW for example, chooses to go out on a long period of combat-only gameplay, then they must load up their cargo full with ammo if they don't want to have any breaks in the action. This means no loot, no Trade XP. The PW will only get combat XP and looted credits, but will get quite a bit of combat XP. Balance. Trade-offs pro & con. It works. The PW could have chosen to equip beams instead, but they sacrifice range, and overall damage ability and skill useage (less free reactor available after beam use). Probably best to leave as it is for now This 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bondct Posted May 14, 2010 Report Share Posted May 14, 2010 JD's are like angry midgets you keep at bay by holding their head with one hand and laugh. Short range weapons and level 8 shields = even loller than TS. The more you post about TS shortcomings Avani, the more I feel there is a prettyboy jenquai hiding inside you waiting to come out nice try... but obviously you dont know what you are talking about or the only jd's you know flat out suck (which would fit with your post) jd's have psi shield (could that mean L8.5 shields?) and unless they are total wimps pack a helluva a punch... we would bring them to all competitive camped kills for first strike (can you say warder)... so if your holding a jd's head with one hand and laughing... make sure your hand is above their waist... otherwise I can see your point... 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyran Posted May 15, 2010 Report Share Posted May 15, 2010 nice try... but obviously you dont know what you are talking about or the only jd's you know flat out suck (which would fit with your post) jd's have psi shield (could that mean L8.5 shields?) and unless they are total wimps pack a helluva a punch... we would bring them to all competitive camped kills for first strike (can you say warder)...Getting the first hit into a boss is different than solo killing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bondct Posted May 15, 2010 Report Share Posted May 15, 2010 (edited) Getting the first hit into a boss is different than solo killing. again i say, you do realize we are playing Earth and Beyond... you have played this game right It's more than getting in the first hit... its a percent of damage done... so you need someone who can not only hit fast... but hit hard... well on the bright side, at least we know where your hands where now... hard to believe watching a jenpie putting down one of their own... usually you guys are as thick as thieves... Edited May 15, 2010 by Avani 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baldhor Posted May 15, 2010 Report Share Posted May 15, 2010 This would require modification of the client -- outside the development team's capabilities. Just add a '/' command "/buildseveral <n>". This command would work only in the manufacture terminal when a product is selected. Prior to execution this command would check: - Quantity of components from inventory - Free space available in inventory No modification of the client, should be "easy" from server side point of view. Just my 2 cents Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyran Posted May 15, 2010 Report Share Posted May 15, 2010 well on the bright side, at least we know where your hands where now... Kinky. You are thinking like a jengai. We should cross swords.hard to believe watching a jenpie putting down one of their own... usually you guys are as thick as thieves...You are just in denial. There's a jen in everyone waiting to come out of the closet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bondct Posted May 16, 2010 Report Share Posted May 16, 2010 no denial... there is a jenpie in me 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gobblu Posted May 16, 2010 Report Share Posted May 16, 2010 If you're holding a jd that close, they're going to blast you with their beams, if you try to use a stick to hold them back, they'll just summon you closer and THEN blast you with their beams. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pull4rise Posted May 20, 2010 Report Share Posted May 20, 2010 nice try... but obviously you dont know what you are talking about or the only jd's you know flat out suck (which would fit with your post) jd's have psi shield (could that mean L8.5 shields?) and unless they are total wimps pack a helluva a punch... we would bring them to all competitive camped kills for first strike (can you say warder)... so if your holding a jd's head with one hand and laughing... make sure your hand is above their waist... otherwise I can see your point... Avani sorry to say but the biggest difference between a JD and TS JD=Warrior and TS an explorer and if u do need lvl9 shields to survive with ur TS u fail at being a terran. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lot Posted July 22, 2010 Report Share Posted July 22, 2010 Apologies for bumping an old thread but +1 to the general message behind this idea. I too would like building of ammo tied to weapon skill level - the ability to use a weapon should go hand in hand with being able to create your own ammo for the weapon decided upon weapon level skill and nothing else. It drove me crazy in live building ammo and trading it to characters that couldn't build their own superior ammo and it still drives me crazy now in the emulator. I can't think of any reason against this ignoring anything said by the Jenquai apologists. And not restricted by trade level either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul [BT] Posted July 22, 2010 Report Share Posted July 22, 2010 Pulling the trigger of a gun doesn't mean you can make one. The only classes that cant make ammo are TS/PS and thats because their main job is explorer, roll a TE/PW if you want big guns. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyp [LDEV] Posted July 23, 2010 Report Share Posted July 23, 2010 Little hint here Avani, whenever Ghent talks, if he affixes something with "E" as the last letter, he refers to the Explorer of that race. He doesn't like TS/PS/JS for some reason, he prefers TE/PE/JT to fit the same thing. Official stance with the team is TS/PS/JS though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bolt212 Posted July 23, 2010 Report Share Posted July 23, 2010 I really REALLY like this idea. I could put those SP into something useful. I don't want my PW to be a builder, but I have to waste 28 sp into a skill just so I don't have to beg on the market every 3 hours for someone to make me ammo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saedor Posted July 26, 2010 Report Share Posted July 26, 2010 You know, I remember towards the end of EnB live that I was able to make my own ammo for my PS after a very long and tedious mission where I had to collect a lot of a specific mineral. Granted, the ammo was for a very specific weapon but it was probably the best vendor sold projectile weapon a PS could buy. Maybe something similar could be employed for each class that doesn't have the weapon build ability. If I remember correctly, the ammo I made could not be traded (I think it was for the Archos PLs) but it sure saved me from having to bother someone else for ammo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyran Posted July 26, 2010 Report Share Posted July 26, 2010 The game needs more money sinks so a 'buy your superior ammo at rip-off prices vendor' might be handy. Otherwise a supply/demand ammo vendor that can be resupplied by players could be a more interactive method. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r8rsfans75 Posted July 26, 2010 Report Share Posted July 26, 2010 The game needs more money sinks so a 'buy your superior ammo at rip-off prices vendor' might be handy. Otherwise a supply/demand ammo vendor that can be resupplied by players could be a more interactive method. +1 Don't know the logistics of accomplishing this in the emulator, but I really like the idea. I found (by accident) that starting a PP first really helps for any subsequent progen characters that you create. I don't plan on sinking any additional points into my PW's build skill. My PP also makes all the reactors, shields, ML's and beams for my Terrans and Jenquai (except my JE is starting to get to the point where the better reactors/shields are Jenquai only) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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