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Raid Lockout Timers, EnB Style

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(Copy and pasted from Magoo's post regarding Static) I wanted to get it here so if any of the Dev's happen to over look it in that drama infested post.  

 

 

What we need are lockout timers.  If there was some way to create lockout timers and flag people from an encounter that they already participated in, it would make spawn timers a thing of the past.  Then everyone could have the opportunity to do the encounters and end game content this emulator has to offer.  

 

How about creating a "dummy" faction that all encounters are factionally aligned with and the only way you can trigger them is if you have positive faction.  Everyone in the raid that engages in the raid, including the person that triggered the encounter, takes an extreme negative faction hit, making it to where they could only trigger a spawn or raid encounter once a week.  Then, each Tuesday when the server resets, add a code that resets the "dummy faction" for each player.  Spawn timers wouldn't matter at that point, make them instantly spawn and regardless of how often they are up, a player could only trigger the encounter spawn one time per week, due to the faction hit.  In essence, you created lockout timers for a game that you probably can't create without modifying the client, which I know can't be done.  

 

Then, decrease the drop rate of ubers to account for all of us with 4-5 lvl 150 characters so over populating the server with item drops doesn't become an issue.  

 

To sum this idea up, basically the "dummy" faction becomes a lockout timer for each player for the week.  Leave the spawn timers up all the time, leave the encounter triggers up all the time, and let people burn their lockouts for the week. 

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hmm, what could be viable is an immunity list..

 

players that deal dmg to mobs in encounter "troller" get added to the list and once final mob is destroyed all future mobs in that encounter become immune to those players until a set time elapses / server resets..

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As a developer you have to see the big picture:

 

1.

You have 45 toons per forum account (9 accts., 5 toons/acc.).

You would wonder why you start to see so many "mules" suddenly triggering raids.... 

 

2.

Due to (1), raid triggers would need a condition - eg. "Min. OL 140"

 

3.

Many players are not raiding, so  you will start to see this, based on (2) :

Taking into consideration that these Raid drops worth a few hundred Mio. and 3-4 items are dropping per raid:

[MARKET] WTS Raid Trigger service for GOBB, 800 Mio. /PST

 

4.

When Raids become triggerable and alts start to trigger raids, the "intentionally" rare dropping items start to drop way more often.

Let's say a raid was a 4 day timer before, you would be able to do it 5-10 times a day suddenly (depends on how long one raid lasts).

 

So we can expect to see dozens of raids within 4 days - which would force us to tone down the drop rate of these items (like 40 times?)

 

 

 

 

Final result after all:

1.

Forum complaints about the "nerfed" drop rate

 

2.

Mass-macroing (to level up alts/mules so they can trigger or sell "trigger-services")

 

3.

Serious damage to the economy if drop rates are not toned down

 

4.

Serious damage to the end-game content if raid with uber-items become "easy doable standard"

 

 

 

 

Also note, there is only ONE reason for all these suggestions:

Making raids (and therefore the loot items) more accessable. But what does it mean? It means, that the items are nothing special anymore, everyone can get them easily, everyone has them - these items become "vendor ware like" (to put it drastically).

 

So this "end game content" becomes boring, nothing special, so maxed out toons are fading away....

 

 

 

What is the final gain now?

If DEVs are forced to turn down drop rate, the trigger mechanism becomes obsolete/nonsense and -because the Raid/Drop ratio was adjusted-  the same effective drop rate again at the end.

You can do 3 raids in a week, getting 3 items - or you do 30 raids in a week with also 3 items (drop rate toned down 1/10) - no gain at all.

 

 

 

If you have a steak every day, you forget how "special" it is. You MUST eat beans regularly to know the value of a good steak. Making raids and uber items "common standard ware" is exactly the same, so finally we can solve the purpose of this suggestion way easier:

Simply add the Spitter, Streak  & Co to any L48+ mob as standard drop - very same result at the end.

 

 

 

 

Now you might understand why you don't see "Raid Lock Timers" in ANY game - not serving the purpose - besides the fact they are easy to overcome/exploit.

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very well put zack!!!! in the end thats what yesterday was all about

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I see your points Zack - just tossing ideas out there that can resolve all this non-sense going on.  Wish I had a magic wand and a crystal ball!

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I had an idea proposed to me 2 days ago with some of my own thoughts added in and would like to add it in this thread in the hopes it may get some constructive feedback.

The idea suggested would not be a simple one since this is not a simple problem.

1.) Using the new tier 10 guild rank (Founder) as a marker, place an NPC in a relevant area to the particular raid in question. (ie: Controller would be at Q.A.R.) or use an existing one (ie: Jinx)

2.) Only someone with the marker could access the full talk tree of that NPC & receive 'Item X' which would be required to either serve as the trigger item or use to construct the trigger.

3.) 'Item X' would be unique, trade-able & subject to some form of decay timer. Also 'Item X' could only be obtained once per week/twice per month in order to preserve the balance of rare items in the game, eliminating the need to reduce drop rates.

4.) An additional safeguard to discourage "mule guilds" minimum guild count of 50-100

 

This is only the preliminary idea and would need some fine tuning to make it viable, but it offers an alternative that wouldn't require drop tables to be altered & addresses the deteriorating diplomatic issues currently plaguing our community.

This new proposal would allow each guild to get their spot for a raid while maintaining the current level of drop frequency.

It would be up to the discretion of the "Founder/Guild Leader" to decide which one of their members triggers the raid and organizes the event.

 

The largest counter argument to this method presented to me so far was "What about the non guilded players that want to raid?"

While this is far from a perfect solution, the fact remains 'Raids' are multi group events and as such cannot be completed by individual people. In addition, the needs of the majority will almost always take precedence.

I welcome all feedback, but please be respectful and constructive.

 

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So smaller guild with a "MIA founder" are locked out of content?

 

Result:

1.

Guild members are leaving that guild, joining a guild with active founder

 

2.

This guild becomes stronger and stronger

 

3.

Raids are "owned" in the future by that guild

 

 

 

Like said..."Big picture"....  :lol:

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So smaller guild with a "MIA founder" are locked out of content?

 

Result:

1.

Guild members are leaving that guild, joining a guild with active founder

 

2.

This guild becomes stronger and stronger

 

3.

Raids are "owned" in the future by that guild

 

 

 

Like said..."Big picture"....  :lol:

Incorrect Sir.

No one gets locked out of anything.

1.) Guilds are encouraged to have an active "Founder" in order to maintain raid ready status.

2.) Some guilds will get smaller due to inactivity, which is no different than is currently observed.

3.) Raids are no longer "owned" by any definition due to the trigger system.

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But you also mentioned guilds of 50 or more people... Would that be toons or active players? I could see that being worked around. Still have the smaller guilds not being able to get that many people.

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Shaddow,

what if i dont want to be in a guild? What if i want to do the raid with my 20 friends (also not guilded)?

It's not a good idea to lock out certain player-groups from content.

 

 

In case you say now

"Well, if you have that many friends online to do the raid, you can also create a new guild quickly"...

i say

Right...and you see the exploit here? :P

  • Upvote 1

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It appears to me there is really no solution that can cover all bases on this issue, well in that case the big picture for now is, what happened yesterday is going to continue endlessly until something is cleverly done about the troller/gobb raid.

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I have a better idea. Do not make these raids special...you all talk of timers etc. Point being here as already mention 45 toons per forum account...if they could charge $$$ that would not be a reality because people would not be paying 9 x $10-15 a month for access. So leave it open make things a story line then all these people who have to have the latest and greats can get it and become bored. All the flames that went on in the "So this is interesting..." thread is crap.

 

I got over WOW from all the bickering and pixel muscle flexing. Being on top DOES NOT Matter except to your egos. Devs can pull the plug then all the flames in the world will not do anyone a bit of good.  

 

I believe all of those bitching about this need to take a step back and look at the big picture. If it cannot be worked out then please pull the plug and go somewhere else and drop trow and whip it out else where.

 

Many people are tired of this, there will be other guilds that will be able to and will be doing these raids and I am sure someone will cry foul because it was their day and some guild not in the agreement came in and did their thing. 

 

I really like this game and very happy there were some who decided to do there best to bring it back from the void. I really appreciate it...but this crap over raid bosses...really? Either make it so everyone can get it easily then there will be no bitching. Or just pull the mobs. Problem is solved.

 

JustUs

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You hit it 100% Darkdronen!

 

There is only one way:

Accept whats there, adapt to it - be mature, show common sense and arrange.

 

The major problem in this whole issue is the very essential basic thinking, that everyone must be able to get everything at every time.

It is simply not that way and wont be that way.

 

Lets take the Halley Comet for instance...it's respawn timer is 76 years  :lol:

 

 

@Justus:

Such content is fine, it's a "must have" imho, the salt in the soup - but it's special and not the "every-day meal". This is the very simply thing we all need to understand.

You will not do a raid today...you wont tomorrow...and you wont loot the item you want, and you dont get (lottery) the item you want IF its dropping.

 

But someday...some time....in some galaxy, you WILL do a raid, the item WILL drop and you WILL win the lotto....and THEN you mount it on your ship, put a flood-light on it, a big Banner "SEE MY PRECIOUS" (Gollom voice) and head to Cooper/Antares and show off how uber you are and how fast you smash the baddies.

 

Thats what it's all about.

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You hit it 100% Darkdronen!

 

There is only one way:

Accept whats there, adapt to it - be mature, show common sense and arrange.

 

The major problem in this whole issue is the very essential basic thinking, that everyone must be able to get everything at every time.

It is simply not that way and wont be that way.

 

Lets take the Halley Comet for instance...it's respawn timer is 76 years  :lol:

 

I agree that there should be some things that not everyone should be able to get, I think over the long term, though, it might be nicer to have some "in between" equipment between the things like Zets, Archos, Pitbulls which are "entry level" weapons, by race for characters reaching L150, and the things that are intended to be awesome.  If those things can be produced, people have alternate things that are desirable, and can be produced, while keeping the things that are intended to be awesome, rare and of value.    That way you don't have most classes having a standard "end-game" load out, more variety in how people equip their ships, and still have those ultra-rare items be as rare as the developers want them to be.

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I can only bring forward the suggestions for consideration. I stated very clearly that the idea was far from perfect & that the original concept was not mine. A large part of my role as the Advocate is to give "EVERYONE" due consideration. I will continue to pursue every suggestion as passionately as the next, provided that it has some merit. I'll leave the deciding what is "viable" or "allowable" to the higher pay grades (ie: GM's & Devs). Having seen a few other opinions and feedback, I feel that my job in regards to this particular suggestion is done. Thanks to all who took the time to 'pause and consider'.

 

As always, any and all suggestions are welcome. Feel free to contact me via pm in the forums, Net-7.org team-speak or in game.

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What nonsense ?

Really?

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Got to disagree a tad here Zack:

 

 

Also note, there is only ONE reason for all these suggestions:

Making raids (and therefore the loot items) more accessable. But what does it mean? It means, that the items are nothing special anymore, everyone can get them easily, everyone has them - these items become "vendor ware like" (to put it drastically).

 

So this "end game content" becomes boring, nothing special, so maxed out toons are fading away....

 

 

There are TWO reasons, namely:

Yes, it's about access.

But reason two is even able to access. Yes, the loot items are nice, but for those that can't  even gain access they become moot. As it stands currently, the big 3 guilds hold a monopoly on content of GoBB/Controller. All the suggestions from players asking for activated raids and raid access timers have something in common, they don't belong to the big 3 guilds! :cluebat:  Does this not say something... is it not obvious?

 

 

So you are worried about the loot becoming too common, that it's not special anymore...you are worried that with activates there will be alt abuse...you don't want to turn down loot so that those that DO do the raid don't get ripped. Fine. I agree, it should be special, it shouldn't be abused, and the drop rates not nerfed so those doing don't feel ripped.

 

But, as it stands currently the big 3 have all the access, to THEM they get to do it whenever it's their turn to "own" it, it's the same big guys within those guilds running the raid, to THEM the loot is far more common, far less special, far less rare, to  THEM they have done it multiple times and its getting "boring", to them it's moot if you did nerf the drop, they can run it repeatedly until they do get the drop.

 

So here is a admitted radical suggestion to keep all of the following problems you identify: no alt abuse, no loot nerf, no common loot, no ripping off participants, no hogging content etc etc etc.

 

IDEA: 1 full month cool down for any toon having done the raid.  Then the guys with 4x L150 can do the raid 4x in the month 1x per toon, this will keep the same big guys in each of the 3 big guilds from hogging it, the loot won't be common and less special, everyone doing the raid is going to have a chance at the loot, the same few won't hog it all, even if the big 3 still monopolized it, the same few biggies would have to let some other of their guild mates get at it, and if they didn't have enough biggies in their guild, then maybe just maybe they would have to reach outside their select circle of friends and guildies to allow someone outside the big 3 to even get to experience the content.

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To put it simply the EMU does not have the population of LIVE

 

So only 2 options. In live many of the "big raids" required at the minimum 20 players to even stand a chance of winning, therefore the items were harder to obtain.

 

As there are less players now the big bosses are scaled down so that less players can accomplish the same goal, yet scaling it up so that 20 would be needed would only favor the largest guilds.

 

So only 2 options

 

1 Make the raid items more common

 

2 Scale up the difficulty and adding groups grouping together for a raid and favor the guilds who can do them.

 

 

If we had over 20k players the items should be harder to obtain, but as there are only a few hundred I would side with making the game fun so people enjoy it rather than p****ing them off.

Edited by shadowxsx

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I am sorry if youre jealous of another player's gear obtainment.  It is no cause to make things easier to get globally.  Items are rare for a reason, youre not meant to have 20 god beams for each of your alts.

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Really?

I was being sarcastic.:)

 

 

But my thoughts are leave everything as it is , it works just fine if ADULTS play nicely . Why be in such  a hurry to get all the raid gear , it will come in time and be all the sweeter because of the wait . As far as the smaller guilds missing out , they either need to grow (shock / horror has no-one thought this) or get together on Teamspeak and organise a joint raid . There is no need in such a small player base for us to be falling out over 'gear' , i am still very happy this emulator exists and think a virtual server wide hug is in order :)

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does anyone remember live?   it was the same the BIG GUILD'S got to do all the end game content and everyone else was locked out

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There is no easy solution for end game content. There isn't a shortcut to make you the recipient of some of th best equipment this game has to offer (for now) at just the amount of time you want it.

Thats what some people need to understand. You must be patient and you must learn to share and not make everything about yourself. i've seen players burn out to reach 150 within a week but i don't see them playing that much anymore if at all.

 

I think there is a big misconception hanging out concerning the 3 biggest guilds and those raids. The agreements that have been forged now and in the past were never intended to keep the small guilds out but to help those 3 not to step on each others toes.

If there is a guild or group of players out there willing to take on those encounters feel free to do so. None of the 'big 3' will stop you.

 

But please also be sensible about it. You should actually be prepared in order to have a chance at defeating the encounter. You may even have a single person of your group/guild observe a few times how the 'big 3' are doing it.

 

Don't go out there with hardly more than a full well rounded group or with a single healer or without debuffing equipment or a single JSer with L5 skill etc. I believe you understand what i'm trying to say.

 

Because then it  would be you denying another, better prepared, player his chance.

 

The best we can do is try and behave like adults.

  • Upvote 1

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But please also be sensible about it. You should actually be prepared in order to have a chance at defeating the encounter. You may even have a single person of your group/guild observe a few times how the 'big 3' are doing it.
 
Don't go out there with hardly more than a full well rounded group or with a single healer or without debuffing equipment or a single JSer with L5 skill etc. I believe you understand what i'm trying to say.
 
Because then it  would be you denying another, better prepared, player his chance.
 
The best we can do is try and behave like adults.

I can agree with always preparing to the best of your abilities, but there is always a risk of failing. If someone failing a raid denies another, I think the devs may need to work a bit on the raids. I think raids should reset enough to allow someone else can complete them if one fails. I would love to come as a single observer to raids when I'm high enough level, but I know from experience that some people want to learn for themselves and not get too many spoilers from others. I think the devs should consider those players too.

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