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Mimir

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Mimir,

Sorry, gotta stand counterpoint to this. Byakhee's mission in no way shape or form affect the stability of the server (no matter how crazy they may be). At best they are irritating to complete because of something you didn't read or do. That's not game breaking, and based on what I've seen of his missions, none of the really complex ones are now required to get hull upgrades. We made this much a mandate for him and he has done an admirable job of fixing them so they weren't interlinked.

He can perhaps add to what he has once we allow him to create new missions again (he's been required as of late to do only repairs to existing missions to try to make them less obtuse). I have plenty of new missions myself that weren't in live (and plenty of the skill missions too that weren't in live). I'm not going to remove them because I don't have anything to replace them with, and because there's no good reason to other than "It's not like live" which is not suitable. Which missions does he not have that you're so interested to have back?

As it stands this project's "original objective" has been reached. Our original objective was a functional and playable version of the game. Our "new and improved" objective is to try to take it all the way. Yes we started with a guideline of trying to make it like live, but we since decided that we would fix some obvious errors as we went along and/or failings of the original game to ensure that it was more fun and playable for all. We're not trying to make a dead ringer duplicate for the live game with all problems intact. "Close to Live" is the starting point we are aiming for, but if we go there as an exact duplicate we have to remove the new classes, remove all the content just about that accounts for end-game (remember, most if not all was added in patches).

Out of all of us Kenu had the most content to work from in terms of missions that existed in live. There were plenty of JE and JD guides out there, but just to clarify Programmers do not implement missions, mission "code" is written in xml via an editing utility that generates it for them. Coders have hardly allotted any time to helping Byakhee with missions, the only notable exceptions that occur to me are last year when Tienbau added a couple of new mission nodes and I wrote the code to add them to the missions editor that is previously mentioned, all in all less than a couple of weeks, mostly because I spent about a week and a half doing something else that I'd been working on.

With all this said, I want to just say this, there will be no flame war here, it won't be tolerated. If you have something to add and support, do so, if a flame war gets started the post will close along with any subsequent posts that attempt to prolong said war.
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[quote name='Kyp' timestamp='1301956851' post='38224']
Sorry, gotta stand counterpoint to this. Byakhee's mission in no way shape or form affect the stability of the server (no matter how crazy they may be). At best they are irritating to complete because of something you didn't read or do. That's not game breaking, and based on what I've seen of his missions, none of the really complex ones are now required to get hull upgrades. We made this much a mandate for him and he has done an admirable job of fixing them so they weren't interlinked.

With all this said, I want to just say this, there will be no flame war here, it won't be tolerated. If you have something to add and support, do so, if a flame war gets started the post will close along with any subsequent posts that attempt to prolong said war.
[/quote]
I agree with Kyp on this. No server coding time has been spent to facilitate any single developer's pursuits. Whatever code that was prompted to be written or fixed by Byakhee's missions was already planned or overdue.

Also, I really like Byakhee's missions. Everyone always thinks I'm crazy for saying that, but it's true. I find them interesting and involving. They actually make me feel like I'm in a storyline, instead of just clicking buttons on some screen playing a game emulator.

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Personally I do not understand all these "This was not in Live" thread arguments.

Im personally glad that they have changed it up a bit, I mean hey the sniper was not in live nor was the scout, Progen Privateer, or the Jenqui Seeker. I have had fun trying to figure out a few of the new things they have added and am excited to see what else they bring in.

True one would think that the project should focus on just targeting live status but as Kyp said none of the new items or missions effect how long it is or will take to achieve EMU Live status, all of it has to do with server stability code being stable enough to support more than the current 300 or so clients that you see once in awhile.

I hope that the end product wont be like live, infact I hope it will be light years more advanced as to call it a new game. While I too miss the old live game I hope they make it way better and more challenging than EA ever could.

What Im waiting for and hope is soon is the V'rix, Sectors, and other missing content that has not made it on the EMU server yet.
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I've heard a lot of players don't like the missions, so I'm less concerned about whether or not it's like live and more concerned whether or not they are enjoyable for players. I haven't done the missions so I can't say much, just saying what I heard.
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[quote name='Kenu' timestamp='1301963939' post='38244']
I've heard a lot of players don't like the missions, so I'm less concerned about whether or not it's like live and more concerned whether or not they are enjoyable for players. I haven't done the missions so I can't say much, just saying what I heard.
[/quote]
Eh I think i know the reason for it, some of the progen missions require alot of travel. Progen's should not travel a ton IMO, that I think should be changed. Im sure ton would rather have alot of fighting rather than travel.

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Like or loath his work, I think Byakhee missions are exactly what we need going forward. There is an extra dimension, required cooperation, and a non-liner "screwed by your own bad choices" line here which can bring another dimension to the game.

Yes, we need to get some dedicated progen Beta testers to take Byakhee's work and smooth it out, but I cannot fault what he is trying to do. We need more like this not less.

When you come out of the other end of one of these missions, you know you earned that item, print, or upgrade.

I would also point out that the real departure from live style missions has taken place has been around the building/manufacturing lines (i.e. Agrippa). Seeing as the Privateer was not even in live this seems understandable. He could not have used Live content as there was none.

The above are my opinions at the time - seeing as I have finished Agrippa with all my eligible toons. A week ago I probably would have been passing out torches and leading the mob. ;) Edited by Lannister
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And the game is always the same:

if someone says or remarkes anything the "Team" doesn't want to hear, there's always the same procedure:

Kyp answers in a way which shows he really isn't interested even to listen or think over the post carefully

C-Del is up to say just what Kyp wants to hear

Maniac hits the goal to say something to show he's with the "TEAM".

and Lannister? thought he were an advocate for the players, but seems he makes the loudspeaker for the T


As a matter of fact:

Mimir didn't say that Byakhee's missions affect the stability of the server,

he just pointed out that if there are so many things to do, why putting time in changing game and not first trying to get it running with the original content BEFORE you go on with content changing?

Changing the content at all means you change the game from a player focused game to a mission focused game (from excellent one to a pretty bad one imao, lots of better mission-based games on market)
And what about the original story-line? If you change the game there is no chance to get all the stuff ingame the westwood-studio was up to bring in further.

All the enb-missions kept alot of running, mining, building etc. no need to blame the progen-players and tell they won't do that running, mining, building...
I for myself always kept doing it till the missions were done, but what for?
Check the wonderful Bogeril missions: a great technology was born
remember the Maelstrom mission: how many runs and stuff were needed: i think neone was tired to grind it and do all the runs for it

but the aggrippa technology: a great idea but at the end to get the blueprint for a lv3 shield or a lv2 one if you go further... which neone wants for using ...
guess the market cries for it....

But even Agrippa technology were nice at all if we had at least the original Enb-Content fixed and running stable.

And so my Question too:

Why wasting time for bringing in new content BEFORE the game is properly running????

Mimir, you hit the point! THANK YOU VM
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[quote name='gretl' timestamp='1301974552' post='38257']
And the game is always the same:

if someone says or remarkes anything the "Team" doesn't want to hear, there's always the same procedure:

Kyp answers in a way which shows he really isn't interested even to listen or think over the post carefully
C-Del is up to say just what Kyp wants to hear
Maniac hits the goal to say something to show he's with the "TEAM".
and Lannister? thought he were an advocate for the players, but seems he makes the loudspeaker for the T
[/quote]

Ahh I see, so are you one of those people that is willing to only look at it one sided and read only part of the thread before you bash on others opinions?
You must not have read everything because my second post said that i agreed that some of the progen mission areas were kinda screwed up.
Also you must not have read hardly anything that Kyp said either, about Byakhee not doing anything coding related just mission related and this would clear up why it does not effect the coding side at all.

I have not understood why people have to bash on others for their opinion.
I dont, why should you?

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[quote name='gretl' timestamp='1301974552' post='38257']
And the game is always the same:

if someone says or remarkes anything the "Team" doesn't want to hear, there's always the same procedure:

Kyp answers in a way which shows he really isn't interested even to listen or think over the post carefully

C-Del is up to say just what Kyp wants to hear

Maniac hits the goal to say something to show he's with the "TEAM".

and Lannister? thought he were an advocate for the players, but seems he makes the loudspeaker for the T


As a matter of fact:

Mimir didn't say that Byakhee's missions affect the stability of the server,

he just pointed out that if there are so many things to do, why putting time in changing game and not first trying to get it running with the original content BEFORE you go on with content changing?

Changing the content at all means you change the game from a player focused game to a mission focused game (from excellent one to a pretty bad one imao, lots of better mission-based games on market)
And what about the original story-line? If you change the game there is no chance to get all the stuff ingame the westwood-studio was up to bring in further.

All the enb-missions kept alot of running, mining, building etc. no need to blame the progen-players and tell they won't do that running, mining, building...
I for myself always kept doing it till the missions were done, but what for?
Check the wonderful Bogeril missions: a great technology was born
remember the Maelstrom mission: how many runs and stuff were needed: i think neone was tired to grind it and do all the runs for it

but the aggrippa technology: a great idea but at the end to get the blueprint for a lv3 shield or a lv2 one if you go further... which neone wants for using ...
guess the market cries for it....

But even Agrippa technology were nice at all if we had at least the original Enb-Content fixed and running stable.

And so my Question too:

Why wasting time for bringing in new content BEFORE the game is properly running????

Mimir, you hit the point! THANK YOU VM
[/quote]

I do appreciate that someone brought it up, I've heard a lot about progen frustration lately so it'd be good to know what people think.

byakhee is a content dev like me. We do not work on skills so a lot of the big problems we have no control over so we might as well add new content when things seem to be running smoothly.

much of the "live" content we have no information on so we cannot recreate it. We have to create new content because of this lack of info. We go a bit outside of the box at times, but the reason we do it is to keep the game unique and interesting.

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[quote name='gretl' timestamp='1301974552' post='38257']

But even Agrippa technology were nice at all if we had at least the original Enb-Content fixed and running stable.

but the aggrippa technology: a great idea but at the end to get the blueprint for a lv3 shield or a lv2 one if you go further... which neone wants for using ...
guess the market cries for it..

[/quote]


In fact here is where you seem to be only have done 1/10th of the missions which those rewards you list and infact if you paid any attention to reading they specifically say they are not that great in the mission chat. That they are used in later missions/builds to improve upon. The stage I stuff is by no means worthwhile, but they are required to be completed to get to the end goal (The Stage II L7-9). Which some of those items are actually quite good imo. 1 in particular has enhanced a certain aspect of how we run a FB *in 30mins flat no less on our normal characters.

The funny thing I see with the people who complain about the missions are those who refused to do them or incapable of doing them to the end. Yes as Lannister mentioned they add another dimension of difficulty and style to the game. Are they like live? No are the PP/JS/TS like live, nope. The only things mission wise really the Progens had in live to begin with are the Hull Upgrade missions, so what am I missing here that the cry for like live is?

Yes I too notice there are somethings from live that should be done first, have to pick and choose battles here, 1 thing to remember perhaps data is still being gathered/worked on to reflect such as live (Vrix/DT/Bogeril) and maybe even having to be written from scratch. I also believe we should focus hardcore on server stability before any changes/content, but we have people working that as well and not all are responsible for it (Content Devs especially like ;), and with that an argumentative, while working on server stability say you max out on everything possible to do in the game then what? You get bored and leave or complain there is no new content! Trust me I deal/see it every day. Try placing yourself on the other side, its a constant balance act to create/recreate content, stability, and player enjoyment.

As far as the Agrippa missions, most of the negativity came from the original roll out that had several flaws/issues with them and then changed mid stream (to a more player friendly method), yet still requiring a player to think and present a challenge to them. I have seen some of the older salty dogs who have no swayed opinions on said missions as of late since they have re-gone thru them, just ask around. Try to keep an open mind and not hold grudges on past transgressions as changes have/are being made. I know the term is hated but this is still Testing phase, and primary player role is as such imo. I enjoy testing every aspect of the game and if something is wrong eh dirt of the shoulder write up a report send it in an argumentative manner ie What you did, whats wrong and possible resolutions to the fact. Just remember sometimes your resolution may not always be what is done, but again patience and understanding on limited capabilities that maybe at the other end of the stick to reproduce a game from 10years ago. Lastly there are numerous players now who have completed all of Agrippa Stage I,II and III. Ask around in game for help before crying foul, as most who endured them are willing to help/offer advise and guidance.



Sorry stepping off soapbox/rant.

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[quote name='gretl' timestamp='1301974552' post='38257']
And the game is always the same:

if someone says or remarkes anything the "Team" doesn't want to hear, there's always the same procedure:

Kyp answers in a way which shows he really isn't interested even to listen or think over the post carefully

C-Del is up to say just what Kyp wants to hear

Maniac hits the goal to say something to show he's with the "TEAM".

and Lannister? thought he were an advocate for the players, but seems he makes the loudspeaker for the T


As a matter of fact:

Mimir didn't say that Byakhee's missions affect the stability of the server,

he just pointed out that if there are so many things to do, why putting time in changing game and not first trying to get it running with the original content BEFORE you go on with content changing?

Changing the content at all means you change the game from a player focused game to a mission focused game (from excellent one to a pretty bad one imao, lots of better mission-based games on market)
And what about the original story-line? If you change the game there is no chance to get all the stuff ingame the westwood-studio was up to bring in further.

All the enb-missions kept alot of running, mining, building etc. no need to blame the progen-players and tell they won't do that running, mining, building...
I for myself always kept doing it till the missions were done, but what for?
Check the wonderful Bogeril missions: a great technology was born
remember the Maelstrom mission: how many runs and stuff were needed: i think neone was tired to grind it and do all the runs for it

but the aggrippa technology: a great idea but at the end to get the blueprint for a lv3 shield or a lv2 one if you go further... which neone wants for using ...
guess the market cries for it....

But even Agrippa technology were nice at all if we had at least the original Enb-Content fixed and running stable.

And so my Question too:

Why wasting time for bringing in new content BEFORE the game is properly running????

Mimir, you hit the point! THANK YOU VM
[/quote]


You need to re-read the OP I'm thinking. Notice the bolded part here:

[quote name='Mimir']
If the coders could spend less or no time making the needed changes for the proposed Byakhee Content Developer changes, I feel that getting this thing out the door as the original goal “close to real game as possible” would happen sooner rather than later. And as B has stated his changes are taking a back seat to other more pressing needs of the coder's time.

If AFTER the game is back to or close to the original stated objectives, then and only then should the story line be changed or added to in B‘s ideas of how the game should be. Possibly have it a separate set of non connected story line, to be completed after level 150. This could be used as an example for others for end game content.

I know there are many who are adamant B supporters and think this is all a great challenge but… the time to change the game is AFTER it is back to 99.9% not currently with so many other things to complete. [b]I point out stability as one example.[/b]
[/quote]

I think over most things carefully, unless they are absurd or have little thought about it other than "Me, me, me!" otherwise I wouldn't spend the time I could be using to move things forward to reply to everyone. Byakhee isn't trained to do everything on the server, in fact few of the content developers know any programming languages, even the lead types.

As others have pointed out, "Content Changing" is required because we don't have the universal, all-inclusive guide to live content. As an example, for Terrans about the only resource I had was a list of mission names from an archived copy of Ebportal and a few documents I snagged from a couple of websites. As pointed out in the reply to Mimir, we're not going to restore the game with faults included, we're trying to make it better as we go. One does not build a castle upon a tower of sand unless one is stupid.

You mention Bogeril missions, they're not supposed to be in the game. They appeared later. I could put them in but der todesengel is closed. That'd lead to a lot of disappointed people, I imagine. I never minded the travel in the live game, except if i was trying to get to my guildmates before they were overrun because I was the "big gun" in my guild. I supported Byakhee in this post because I'm honestly tired of seeing people disparaging his missions without anything to offer up of their own. "That sucks, kthxbye" doesn't help anyone.

We haven't changed the game in a single way that prevents the original storyline from occurring at this time, to what do you reference?

In regard to the rest of that post, remember that with the exception of myself, pretty much none of the content developers even understand programming languages so the rest of that post is pointless. They cannot fix server issues, and nothing they do affects how the server handles your play session, they only control your experience in content that you can do. I oft see things like this where incongruent lines are drawn between content and the server. They are separate from each other and have no effect upon the other.

Then again, I'm honestly not sure why I spent this much time replying given that a lot of your posts sound the same, they just disparage one or all of us because we don't support whatever position you do without anything constructive to assist us in bringing back this game. A good and recent example is where you stated that we (or implied that we, anyway) were in fear of releasing data about loot because you wanted it in databases and so on and tried to say EA wasn't afraid to do it, but EA didn't do it so it was a moot point. You can name call and accuse all you want, that doesn't make it true. Now note, I'm not saying your every post does it, just that most that I've seen do. C Del doesn't generally support me, certainly not in every conversation, then again you all can't see the developer areas so you wouldn't know that for sure. Maniac I can't really speak for but I guess you're right, many of his or her posts tend to support us, but that's no different from the alternative position that you take most of the time, other than it supports us instead of disparages us. Lannister on the other hand has fought hard for you guys and brought forth issues to us, perhaps not the issues you believe in, but that fault lies with you if you haven't communicated them with him, because he's certainly willing to stand up for issues and make it clear just how big an issue things are to you.

If you have something to add, or some intelligible source of all the live data that has yet to be provided, please do and we'll restore more of those "live missions" as appropriate, but if you want to just complain without anything constructive or to ask us to remove content because you think this is somehow going to make the game better then don't expect that anyone would be inclined to listen.

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Like so many others I loved the original EnB but that is not to say that it was flawless. In fact, its not a very well designed game, but love is blind. ;)

The missions in the original EnB wasn't much to shout about. Some good ones were added eventually, in particular those that involved Der Todesengel stand out. I feel that the fact that someone puts so much time and effort in to creating new missions is just awesome. So what if they are long and complicated. I think that the EnB community have a somewhat narrow view on missions. It seems that any mission that takes more then travel to X and kill Y is considered a pain in the neck. Virtually every night someone complains about the lv 30 bonus mission. Seriosuly, it takes a few hours at the most. Isn't it good to have something to do when you are online? o0

I can't really understand exactly what it is that people want. One step missions with instant epic rewards? Personaly I would like to see more epic missions. Missions that I can work on for weeks! That makes the reward so much sweeter.

//Leandra

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[size="3"][font="Calibri"]I guess I must be only one of two that can or will voice an alternate opinion, much to my detriment. [/font][/size]

[font="Calibri"][size="3"]I think you need to ask yourself Devs/Content Devs or better yet ask the players who left …Why? Why did you leave the game? (I submitted this to my player advocate, and have seen or heard nothing) [/size][/font]

[size="3"][font="Calibri"]I know it is not all B’s fault, I think the total departure from anything that was EnB is what distresses me, and possibly others. <- the silent majority? The players who thought they had a voice found they didn’t and left? [/font][/size]

[font="Calibri"][size="3"]I can see that there are two very different schools of thought in the EMU Dev team, one side there are Devs that want to get the game back to what it was at Sunset and another that just want something back. Both are ok nothing wrong with either. It would be nice if one side or the other would take control of the direction of this game.[/size][/font]

[font="Calibri"][size="3"]I take issue in the claim that there is no mission information out there. In a little over an hour last night I found the following sites. [/size][/font]

[url="http://au.guides.ign.com/guides/15570/"][font="Calibri"][size="3"]http://au.guides.ign.com/guides/15570/[/size][/font][/url]

[url="http://www.rivenport.com/special/special_missions.html"][font="Calibri"][size="3"]http://www.rivenport.com/special/special_missions.html[/size][/font][/url]

[url="http://damageinc.cryptic.com/cgi-bin/Missions.cgi"][font="Calibri"][size="3"]http://damageinc.cryptic.com/cgi-bin/Missions.cgi[/size][/font][/url]

[url="http://ebiia.net/Gamequests.shtml"][font="Calibri"][size="3"]http://ebiia.net/Gamequests.shtml[/size][/font][/url]

[url="http://enb.forlorn-hope.org/"][font="Calibri"][size="3"]http://enb.forlorn-hope.org/[/size][/font][/url]

[font="Calibri"][size="3"]Before the great server crash of 09, I remember tons of information submitted by players on everything from missions to screen shots. Was that all lost? Are we at the point now that we can’t ask for the lost information back? Some I am sure would be happy to re-upload, even if they have moved on. [/size][/font]

[font="Calibri"][size="3"][i][b]My Key points:[/b][/i][/size][/font]

[font="Calibri"][size="3"][i]I must be only one of two that can or will voice an alternate opinion.
[/i][/size][/font][font="Calibri"][size="3"][i]I know it is not all B’s fault
[/i][/size][/font][i][font="Calibri"][size="3"]Devs that want to get the game back to what it was at Sunset
[/size][/font][font="Calibri"][size="3"]another that just want something back [/size][/font][/i][i][font="Calibri"][size="3"]Both are ok
[/size][/font][font="Calibri"][size="3"]I take issue in the claim that there is no mission information out there[/size][/font][/i]

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[quote name='Kyp' timestamp='1301998533' post='38271']
You need to re-read the OP I'm thinking. Notice the bolded part here:



I think over most things carefully, unless they are absurd or have little thought about it other than "Me, me, me!" otherwise I wouldn't spend the time I could be using to move things forward to reply to everyone. Byakhee isn't trained to do everything on the server, in fact few of the content developers know any programming languages, even the lead types.

As others have pointed out, "Content Changing" is required because we don't have the universal, all-inclusive guide to live content. As an example, for Terrans about the only resource I had was a list of mission names from an archived copy of Ebportal and a few documents I snagged from a couple of websites. As pointed out in the reply to Mimir, we're not going to restore the game with faults included, we're trying to make it better as we go. One does not build a castle upon a tower of sand unless one is stupid.

You mention Bogeril missions, they're not supposed to be in the game. They appeared later. I could put them in but der todesengel is closed. That'd lead to a lot of disappointed people, I imagine. I never minded the travel in the live game, except if i was trying to get to my guildmates before they were overrun because I was the "big gun" in my guild. I supported Byakhee in this post because I'm honestly tired of seeing people disparaging his missions without anything to offer up of their own. "That sucks, kthxbye" doesn't help anyone.

We haven't changed the game in a single way that prevents the original storyline from occurring at this time, to what do you reference?

In regard to the rest of that post, remember that with the exception of myself, pretty much none of the content developers even understand programming languages so the rest of that post is pointless. They cannot fix server issues, and nothing they do affects how the server handles your play session, they only control your experience in content that you can do. I oft see things like this where incongruent lines are drawn between content and the server. They are separate from each other and have no effect upon the other.

Then again, I'm honestly not sure why I spent this much time replying given that a lot of your posts sound the same, they just disparage one or all of us because we don't support whatever position you do without anything constructive to assist us in bringing back this game. A good and recent example is where you stated that we (or implied that we, anyway) were in fear of releasing data about loot because you wanted it in databases and so on and tried to say EA wasn't afraid to do it, but EA didn't do it so it was a moot point. You can name call and accuse all you want, that doesn't make it true. Now note, I'm not saying your every post does it, just that most that I've seen do. C Del doesn't generally support me, certainly not in every conversation, then again you all can't see the developer areas so you wouldn't know that for sure. Maniac I can't really speak for but I guess you're right, many of his or her posts tend to support us, but that's no different from the alternative position that you take most of the time, other than it supports us instead of disparages us. Lannister on the other hand has fought hard for you guys and brought forth issues to us, perhaps not the issues you believe in, but that fault lies with you if you haven't communicated them with him, because he's certainly willing to stand up for issues and make it clear just how big an issue things are to you.

If you have something to add, or some intelligible source of all the live data that has yet to be provided, please do and we'll restore more of those "live missions" as appropriate, but if you want to just complain without anything constructive or to ask us to remove content because you think this is somehow going to make the game better then don't expect that anyone would be inclined to listen.
[/quote]

Sorry Kyp, but... I offer constructive points all the time. I prefer to PM information. Before you BLAST me in public, if not too much trouble could you please communicate with the staff?

Nothing I have said disparages anyone, possibly their work but nothing personal. I would appreciate a like response, no personal attacks. If you are too busy to respond to my posts…well don’t.

I would appreciate it GREATLY if when you quote me quote me. Please don’t roll MY comments in with what others have said in the past or this thread. I know you are busy, I know you feel this is all beneath you, but please please read my posts and not between the lines.

I thought long and hard before posting the original post. I love this game; it is the only one I play. I appreciate everything you (all of you… not just you) are doing. But I see now to express opinions are definitely not worth the anguish and misrepresentations it causes.

I DID offered suggestions in my post, you chose to ignore them and that is absolutely your prerogative. I suggested the B missions be more in line with the missions of old before the changing them or replacing them …UNTIL AFTER the “release”.

I’m done with trying to help..

Oh and I was a donator, I guess anyone who was giving $50.00 per month before the 09 crash is just that a casualty of the crash.

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I wasn't blasting you Mimir, generally I read what you have to say and I comment in kind if I can, I was pointing out what you said to Gretl. If you'll notice that was his response, he just stated that you didn't say a word about stability, and you did. In fact his words were that you said absolutely nothing about stability.

Specifically these words:

[quote name='gretl']
As a matter of fact:

Mimir didn't say that Byakhee's missions affect the stability of the server,
[/quote]

Did you mean that in some other context? Aside from that the only reply meant for what you had to say was my first reply.

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[quote name='Kyp' timestamp='1302015518' post='38288']
I wasn't blasting you Mimir, generally I read what you have to say and I comment in kind if I can, I was pointing out what you said to Gretl. If you'll notice that was his response, he just stated that you didn't say a word about stability, and you did. In fact his words were that you said absolutely nothing about stability.

Specifically these words:



Did you mean that in some other context? Aside from that the only reply meant for what you had to say was my first reply.
[/quote]

[font="Calibri"][size="3"]I used stability as an example of coders time better spent than adding additional new content. In fact I stated that it was an example [i]“[/i][/size][size="3"][i]the time to change the game is AFTER it is back to 99.9% not currently with so many other things to complete. I point out stability as one example.”[/i] See there is nothing even remotely blaming B for stability issues (as fun as that may be). I think[b][i] IF[/i][/b] you would take the time to read my posts without thinking that I am trying to blast the efforts of all involved you will see that I am not being an anarchist, but trying to help in my own inept way.[/size][size="3"]

Also if I post something it is usually not just my opinion but taken from listening to (or watching) chat in game. I try to ask a few questions in game chat to make sure I am not going off like a loose cannon or like [/size][size="3"]Don Quixote.[b][i] [/i][/b][/size][size="3"]There are others that have issues. They might just rather whine about it or leave the game altogether, this I would rather not see happen. I know…I know… If you don’t like it lump it, but wouldn’t it be much better for all if the game could keep those players who came in…stayed?

If you remember in a different thread I was one of the first to put my support behind keeping out player advocate in office longer? I was hoping for a bit more spine, we will see.[/size]

[/font] Edited by Mimir

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[quote name='Mimir' timestamp='1302002276' post='38278']
[font="Calibri"][size="3"]I take issue in the claim that there is no mission information out there[/size][/font]
[/quote]
The information at the links you posted appears to be largely in line with what's in the game right now.

This thread is getting kinda angry. It might be better for everyone to take a few slow deep breaths and put aside the personal stuff so we can talk about the real issues. Unfortunately, that also means taking "no" as an answer. I know it's frustrating to get that answer to something you steadfastly believe in, but that's going to happen sometimes. Despite being on staff, I don't get any preference when it comes to content - I can make suggestions like players, but I also have to defer to the content developers when it comes to decision-making just the same.

I just happen to agree with Kyp on this issue. Of course, I have respect for him, and all the developers, but I've been around for a little over two years now, and I don't feel I need to worry about rocking the boat if I disagree. I wouldn't take the time to back him up if I didn't wholeheartedly agree. It has more to do with the fact that I enjoy Byakhee's work - even if that seems crazy.

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I think this is all a misunderstanding. Byakhee doesn't affect server side programming and so he introduces new and "exciting?" missions into the game that weren't in live. Some players see that he's devoting an immense amount of time to implementing these missions, but they don't see stability, player reported bugs, graphical upgrades, or such being introduced as quickly as Byakhee is able to introduce a whole line of missions so they ask "WTF?"

Then other people skim through the topic for various reasons (I skimmed a bunch of Kyp's, Maniacs and Mimir's responses because I'm in a time crunch atm) pick and choose things that stood out and proceed to start the devolving circle and then others get defensive and so on and so forth. I think the reason I like these boards so much is because that whole circle rarely happens. (I've had a 75 page flame on other boards stem from 2 phrases I stated in an OP)

Anyway, that's my 2 cents worth, to sum it up; it was just a misunderstanding/misconception.

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I think Mimir's main question is
"Can we replace the skill missions and hull upgrade missions that are in the emulator with the skill missions and hull upgrade missions that were in live, provided we have the information?"

I'm not Byakhee so I can't speak for him, but I know many of his hull upgrade missions are extremely complicated. If I made a really complicated set of missions there'd be very little chance I'd toss the whole thing and recreate the live missions, though I might be willing to modify the missions to make them more like the live missions.

so to that question I answer:
Telling him to toss the hull upgrade missions will probably not happen (I certainly wouldn't toss a mission I put so much time into). You might be able to get him to replace some of the unconnected skill missions with enough specific evidence or you could convince him to add elements from the live missions to his current complex missions.

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I think the most famously complicated, or just long, Progen hull upgrade mission is the level 30 one, which is actually the mission that was present while the game was live. I'm fairly certain you can just pay for the rest of the upgrades if you're no fun. B)

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[quote name='C Del' timestamp='1302033552' post='38298']
I think the most famously complicated, or just long, Progen hull upgrade mission is the level 30 one, which is actually the mission that was present while the game was live. [b]I'm fairly certain you can just pay for the rest of the upgrades if you're no fun.[/b] B)
[/quote]
It says you can but I never found a way.
I did not look that hard because when it comes to missions, to me anyway, I found them to be a challenge to overcome and thought they were fun.
They were defiantly frustrating but in the end made me feel like I actually did something worth while.

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[quote name='Mimir' timestamp='1302019725' post='38289']
[font="Calibri"][size="3"]I used stability as an example of coders time better spent than adding additional new content. In fact I stated that it was an example [i]“[/i][/size][size="3"][i]the time to change the game is AFTER it is back to 99.9% not currently with so many other things to complete. I point out stability as one example.”[/i] See there is nothing even remotely blaming B for stability issues (as fun as that may be). I think[b][i] IF[/i][/b] you would take the time to read my posts without thinking that I am trying to blast the efforts of all involved you will see that I am not being an anarchist, but trying to help in my own inept way.[/size][size="3"]

Also if I post something it is usually not just my opinion but taken from listening to (or watching) chat in game. I try to ask a few questions in game chat to make sure I am not going off like a loose cannon or like [/size][size="3"]Don Quixote.[b][i] [/i][/b][/size][size="3"]There are others that have issues. They might just rather whine about it or leave the game altogether, this I would rather not see happen. I know…I know… If you don’t like it lump it, but wouldn’t it be much better for all if the game could keep those players who came in…stayed?

If you remember in a different thread I was one of the first to put my support behind keeping out player advocate in office longer? I was hoping for a bit more spine, we will see.[/size][/font]
[/quote]


Stability as an example of coder's time better spent? I'm sorry, I don't understand the statement here. How does this encourage stability, or rather, how does it detract from it? Tienbau obsessively (at least some might say) keeps an eye on that server and how well it runs. As I previously stated, content developers have absolutely no sway on the server in terms of making anything stable or unstable (aside from performing reload commands on the play server which they know they're not allowed to do without authorization from someone who can reboot it should things go awry.)

I don't think you were trying to blast us, but I do think you were trying to draw/label Byakhee's missions out to be the enemy, and I seriously doubt anyone else (aside from perhaps gretl) thought otherwise. You begged "the powers that be" to step in. The question is, "why?", since he has no effect on the stability of the server, nor any of the other things you've mentioned. I suppose perhaps you weren't directly blaming him for server stability, but that's what it looks like at first glance, an implication that his content somehow directly causes a problem, but what all needs to go back in that isn't there? You cite so many things needing to be done, but what can Byakhee (or any other content developer) do for these things. If they're related to functions and skills, he can't do anything. This is what I want to hear, give me something constructive, don't cite that his stuff needs to be removed or toned down if it can't be replaced with something better since it has no effect on anything else, and since Byakhee can't help with all these other issues if they're related to functionality. He can't do any more than you can, aside from posting it in another forum area only available to staff.

Listen, if I thought you were blasting us, I'd be nowhere near as nice as I've been so far in this topic. We're not paid, we don't have to be nice and so on and so forth. I won't lose my job because I've offended someone in the forum where I've attempted to carry on a discussion. This topic has been mild at best and relatively civil for some I've been in, particularly in the staff areas. I get the honest impression that you mistake bluntness for anger and lashing out. You yourself are a proponent of being blunt, can someone else not do it when they talk with you without offending you?

As I said before that previous response was to Gretl, it just quoted part of what you said because it appeared to imply that Byakhee was causing server issues. I'm all for constructive criticism from anyone, but if you just want to say "get rid of it" I don't have time to listen. Also while we're on the subject, I noticed earlier you posted links to mission guides, I don't think anyone said we had no data or rather:

[quote name='Mimir']

[color=#444444][font=Tahoma, Verdana, Arial,][font=Calibri][size=2]I take issue in the claim that there is no mission information out there. In a little over an hour last night I found the following sites. [/size][/font]

[url="http://au.guides.ign.com/guides/15570/"][font=Calibri][size=2]http://au.guides.ign.com/guides/15570/[/size][/font][/url]

[url="http://www.rivenport.com/special/special_missions.html"][font=Calibri][size=2]http://www.rivenport.com/special/special_missions.html[/size][/font][/url]

[url="http://damageinc.cryptic.com/cgi-bin/Missions.cgi"][font=Calibri][size=2]http://damageinc.cryptic.com/cgi-bin/Missions.cgi[/size][/font][/url]

[url="http://ebiia.net/Gamequests.shtml"][font=Calibri][size=2]http://ebiia.net/Gamequests.shtml[/size][/font][/url]

[url="http://enb.forlorn-hope.org/"][font=Calibri][size=2]http://enb.forlorn-hope.org/[/size][/font][/url]

[font=Calibri][size=2]Before the great server crash of 09, I remember tons of information submitted by players on everything from missions to screen shots. Was that all lost? Are we at the point now that we can’t ask for the lost information back? Some I am sure would be happy to re-upload, even if they have moved on.[/size][/font][/font][/color]
[color=#444444][font=Tahoma, Verdana, Arial,][font=Calibri][size=2][/quote][/size][/font][/font][/color]
[color=#444444][font=Tahoma, Verdana, Arial,][font=Calibri][size=2]
[/size][/font][/font][/color]
[color=#444444][font=Tahoma, Verdana, Arial,][font=Calibri][size=2]My words were:[/size][/font][/font][/color]

[quote name='Kyp']
[color=#444444][font=Tahoma, Verdana, Arial,]Out of all of us Kenu had the most content to work from in terms of missions that existed in live. There were plenty of JE and JD guides out there[/font][/color]
[/quote]

So to that I ask, in what universe does that mean "No data." because it's not this one. In regards to the latter question though, yes most of that data was lost and we're more than happy to have people post new data whenever they like. A few have even volunteered to do so, and I set them up with a public FTP where they could upload their data just for that purpose.

Before you draw guns, make sure you yourself understand what I said and that it wasn't directed at you, but at the individual who has repeatedly exhibited that behavior. If what he posted is true, then he should have added "And gretl came along to complain about it all." and it would've completed the formula.

Also, you seem to suggest that we don't speak with players or communicate, I don't know if that's your intention or not, but that's not even remotely close to truth. If it were, this would be a [b]very different[/b] game. I hear from people pretty regularly in your preferred method of communication (PM), and generally its to say thanks and to tell us how they think we're doing a great job. I think that if people were really as fed up as you suggest they would come on here and talk about it in threads like these, they wouldn't just stay silent because psychologically speaking someone who's upset makes more noise than anyone who isn't. Statistics will bear thB) out any day. ;)

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How dare someone attack The Byakhee?


I want to see heads rolling now.

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how about some constructive ideas, and less arguing?

i'm pretty sure a compromise in any topic is possible.
people just have to have patience and be open to ideas, instead of being close minded.

personally, i liked LIVE a lot, but i don't dislike EMU.
there was things in LIVE i did not like, and there's some things in EMU i don't like.

but that doesn't mean i hate it, either or them, or that things can't be improved.

for instance, i came to like the round-robin looting system in EMU. it's better than all-up-for-grabs present in LIVE.
for that matter, what would i change?
- fix the bugs while looting in a group.
- add a slash command for group leader to disable round-robin for certain scenarios.

see, this is a compromise. i accepted both ideologies and "designed" a way to implement both, with one being the default (the most sane).


what else i don't like in EMU?
- too easy
- buggy
- lacking content

all 3 are fixable.

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