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Raid Rotation

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Theres been quite a bit of discussion in a couple guilds on the raid rotation. The once "Big 3" aren't big anymore and leave the triggers up and wasted. There was also a no multiboxing rule which the now "Little" 3 violates because they no longer have the people to do it. If your guild can't do it give up your place in the rotation and make it public. 

 

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There has been alot off talk about Triggers going to wasted,there been talk in my guild and good few other guilds,, player have asked what would happen if we take the trigger,,well i dont realy know what would happen not that i would let any1 in my Guild kill steal a trigger anyway, But come on GUYS in the Big 3 if u guys dont have Inuff player to  do the Raid Why dont u guys ask for puplic help, Why dont u guys do what we do if we doing a Puplic FB if there is wep or devices, exctra, u guys need just reserved it and we roll on everthing els lets keep the raids going for everyone,,Its a damm shame to watch trigger go to wasted,, Zant 

 

 

 

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Also as i seen as of late the so called 3 big are not as big as they used to be. Time to call in public to aid u in your epic adventures iff u can't do it. Then we will not see Triggers wasted at all. We got new people coming in and see this kinda waste, and it is not good for the population growth. And those in the 3 big don't even try to slag this off. Time to rethink the whole rotation iff nothing is done with the wasting of Triggers. New people can use the gear u know.

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Biggest reason for this game slowly dying due to lack of players is the Rotation, until that changes. Here is a wall start beating your head anytime you feel like it guys, cos nothings going to change.

It's reached a point now when I look on the forums ( feel free to see for yoursevles) there are actually more guests and logged in members browsing the forums than are actually playing the game most times, that alone should tell you all you need to know.

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And this conversation seems to be cropping up every year, and there always seems to be an excuse of why things are fine.  "It's only summer people will come back." "A new game released and they are giving it a try a while." "If it were free for all then a select few would control everything."  But yet, nothing has changed.  The agreement as it were, needs updated.  Needs ammended.  Needs something.

 

Unless this game keeps a fresh batch of players once in a while, and thus a potential donator, it's going to die.  Veteran donators did their part, and unless new ones come along to replace the old ones, no money, no funny, no honey.  Lights go dim again and we all cry.

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Speaking from a new player perspective.....

 

This entire discussion is ridiculous at best.  There are at most 20, maybe 30 unique people playing at once. For all I know, the Big 3 consists of alts and the same 4 or 5 people are getting every raid every week.  

 

One thing for sure, this game is just packed with hoarders. Hoarders of content and hoarders of so many alts filled with so much stuff that'll never be used and they know it. And they all cling on to it as if this emulator will one day explode and hundreds of new players will flood in and all that junk will actually be worth anything.  News flash, that's not going to happen, and never will.

 

The biggest commodity in this game is content and new players. Not loot, or feathers or skull shields. When you restrict 75 percent of the events that new players still have interest in doing, well, you can't really expect many new players to hang around long.  This game is just too old for that and gets too boring far to quickly.

 

Participating in groups is the only real dynamic content left and unfortunately, is all there ever will be.  Since, and i feel some need  a reminder on this, this is just an emulator and 99 percent of it will never change. That leaves everything in the players hands, with regards to content delivery and activities.

 

It's pretty obvious that even the 4 or 5 are getting bored playing with themselves, and at some point, raid triggers like the controller this weekend which  sat untouched all weekend, or Gobb last weekend which did the same, will always be up.

 

All of this is further emphasized by how upset and immature people get when you try to discuss it rationally. That is ironic at best, since from what I've seen, most players are in their 40's and 50's and take this game, far, far to seriously for what little of it is left.

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the guild rotation is controled by the players and it is up to us players to rework the gentelmans agreement on the rotation rules...sadly the game is seasonal and we do gain alot of players during the summer months and lose during the winter...we need to get the big 3 guild leaders/officers together in a meeting to discuss the raid rotation to make changes...

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4 hours ago, cimbad said:

we need to get the big 3 guild leaders/officers together in a meeting to discuss the raid rotation to make changes...

Is this the NOW active biggest 3 guilds in the game you refer too or the has beens that cling onto the past and would rather see the game die than give up their slot?

Another answer is just to create a new guild that does not agree with the rotation to get everyone that feels the same in one place and just start playing the game as intended, I am sure they would not find a shortage of people ready to join.

Edited by PESTILENNCE
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sorry pestilennce i forgot to put the " when i wrote the big 3..should have read ....."the big 3"....my apoligies..

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I don't think there is a "big" guild on the entire server by any modern day MMO standards.  I have observed Damage Inc and Epic together barely coming up with 5 unique players for RD base and then conceding to multi-boxing. I know Static and VGE are barely around anymore and often times have to do the raid at the last second before change over.  Builders Inc usually has at least 5 unique people on for the raids it cares about.  This past weekend we had 10 unique guildies for the GoBB raid.   I think Aceonfire hit the nail on the head, there are probably 30 unique players on average at any time on the server.

 

The raid rotation does a couple of things:  

  1. It blocks out the public from participating in the "Big 3" raids unless invited.
  2. It blocks out the "Big 3" from participating in the public week by excluding them from being able to loot.  This is due to the fact that there is no single public guild owning that week and no one can officially allow a "Big 3" guild to loot because they have their own week already.

I am not the leader of my guild, so I cannot speak for the guild.   But, I wouldn't mind opening up our entire raiding week to the public if that would allow me to be eligible for public raid loot and would introduce more raid leaders.  I would love to sit on the controller spawn for at least 2 weeks of the month since I haven't been lucky with skull shield drops.  Heck if the raid rotation dissapeared, I would sit only on the controller spawn.   I have seen members from Damage Inc and Epic with multiple skull shields between their toons.  So the rotation is not stopping them from getting loot.

 

The best option is for farmable triggers by the devs, so that you can do whatever the hell you want when you want.  Modern MMOs have "many" instanced raids/dungeons for this reason.  (They also have PVP)  It sucks having already killed your one raid that you have been assigned for the week and trying to come up with content.  Or doing shitty raids, when you want to be doing GoBB or Controller.  It leads to lots of market chats and overall boredom.

 

I think the guild leaders should get together and talk about this, but I doubt it will happen.  Personally, I would love to see the Devs to respond to the trigger idea.

 

Or the last option, start a war...let's see how it ends. :)  I don't mind sitting on the controller spawn every 2 days for the entire month. :)  Might make the game interesting. :)

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Blackmercenary
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This is not going to make me very popular within my guild i suspect , as i have always said the rotation should stay. But now i am not so sure :blink: maybe its time to scrap it and see how it goes :ph34r:? (Chaos?) The trigger idea has been suggested many times but i do think possibly too much work for our over stretched devs :).

Edited by Prrekoorb
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5 hours ago, Blackmercenary said:

I don't think there is a "big" guild on the entire server by any modern day MMO standards.  I have observed Damage Inc and Epic together barely coming up with 5 unique players for RD base and then conceding to multi-boxing. I know Static and VGE are barely around anymore and often times have to do the raid at the last second before change over.  Builders Inc usually has at least 5 unique people on for the raids it cares about.  This past weekend we had 10 unique guildies for the GoBB raid.   I think Aceonfire hit the nail on the head, there are probably 30 unique players on average at any time on the server.

 

The raid rotation does a couple of things:  

  1. It blocks out the public from participating in the "Big 3" raids unless invited.
  2. It blocks out the "Big 3" from participating in the public week by excluding them from being able to loot.  This is due to the fact that there is no single public guild owning that week and no one can officially allow a "Big 3" guild to loot because they have their own week already.

I am not the leader of my guild, so I cannot speak for the guild.   But, I wouldn't mind opening up our entire raiding week to the public if that would allow me to be eligible for public raid loot and would introduce more raid leaders.  I would love to sit on the controller spawn for at least 2 weeks of the month since I haven't been lucky with skull shield drops.  Heck if the raid rotation dissapeared, I would sit only on the controller spawn.   I have seen members from Damage Inc and Epic with multiple skull shields between their toons.  So the rotation is not stopping them from getting loot.

 

The best option is for farmable triggers by the devs, so that you can do whatever the hell you want when you want.  Modern MMOs have "many" instanced raids/dungeons for this reason.  (They also have PVP)  It sucks having already killed your one raid that you have been assigned for the week and trying to come up with content.  Or doing shitty raids, when you want to be doing GoBB or Controller.  It leads to lots of market chats and overall boredom.

 

I think the guild leaders should get together and talk about this, but I doubt it will happen.  Personally, I would love to see the Devs to respond to the trigger idea.

 

Or the last option, start a war...let's see how it ends. :)  I don't mind sitting on the controller spawn every 2 days for the entire month. :)  Might make the game interesting. :)

 

 

 

 

 

 

I have to admit I do like your option for the farmable triggers. Similar to the FB/Gate Raid. Would give the player base something new to do. I would think it would be alot of work for the Emu team though. 

 

I'm not sure about other guilds, but Damage Inc has been growing recently, but that doesn't mean we could fill a full raid group. We still would need help. Different time zones/different playing times play a role in this. We are pretty diverse with having European players, Eastern US people, Central US people, West Coast people. 

 

Again I enjoy the trigger idea. Thumbs up to you Black.

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About a week ago, Builders Inc invited the public to join them in a Red Dragon Base raid in their rotation week.  It went well and there was much loot to be had.    Its a punishing raid and often hard to find raiders willing and able to go due to Red Dragon faction requirement.     I commend BI on inviting the public into their raid, and humbly suggest other of the 'big 3' do so as well in the future.

 

Sorry to hijack this thread with something positive.;)  

 

Edit: Disclaimer -- I'm not from BI, but one of the general public that joined that raid.

Edited by Zarg
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i like the trigger idea like the gate raid/fish bowl...i dont know if it could be done thou..but maybe if the dev team puts in new raids in the future they could set it up to be a trigger type raid like the gate raid/fish bowl.....

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On 4/25/2017 at 4:32 PM, flamingpanda said:

Not to mention the same boxers controlling the raid will turn up to a boss spawn with a fleet of me myself and I and killstealer the poor new players and tell them to suck it up bluntly (this doesnt happen as much as it used to , due to the galaxy being virtually empty these days outside of bases and gates) But i believe it did damage in the past. The rotation is one of the biggest problems , People all eventually hit 150, And find out the game is only fully available to 5 people 75% of the time , And obviously leave.

Edited Tuesday at 04:36 PM by flamingpanda

 

 

 

As i have i said in a previous post i am not totally against the scrapping of the rotation...... BUT!! (looking at the two points i have underlined on this quote) what do you think is going to happen if you do scrap it and make it a free for all ? And don't say they(boxers etc) wont. Because they will (look at the Warder spawn for example , its been controlled by a minority since day one). In my honest opinion its not the rotation that is causing the low player base , some of the blame lies with the false accusations that the rotation restricts players from getting gear . When in fact it helps by including EVERYONE ( if they wish to do so ) once every 4 weeks to each of the 4 rotation raids(EVERYONE gets the chance to take part in each of the raids for a week , ...... where Flaming Panda gets 1 week out 4 i dont know lol ). It took me a year to get a Spitter and even longer to get a GOD beam, was i upset ? NO but i was damn happy when i finally got one :) .Yes i have got all the gear now but thats because i am in this game for the long haul not just a quick few months and feck it i aint geared up i am bloody leaving lol . Half the players that join this game don't bother looking for missions outside of what is needed for skill growth,my PP has done 215 missions. And there still loads he can do (if i said have you done Tang's to half of the players they would reply with ............Huh ? ) My point is there is so much to do apart from sprint to lvl 150 and grab raid gear , slow down , enjoy the game ,explore the stations and npc's for missions (DO Agrippa lol that will take a month or two or three :) ). 

 

Also you state the game is only available to 5 people 75% of the time ?   .................... Oh come on statements like this do far more damage to this game than anything else  , which 5 people i wonder ? And 150 is not the limit , you keep going till you max all the skills of your toon if you want to get the best out of it :)

 

Btw I cannot , nor have I ever multiboxed. I have had to rely on me getting off my arse and raiding with a great group of guys and girls.

 

 

decal_0006.png
 

 

Edited by Prrekoorb
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If you actually look at the regular attendance of the public you will find that it is pretty similar to what the big 3 are bringing to their own raids.  You will also notice that they multibox as well.  You will notice that the regular attenders have exceptional gear while the casual players do not.  Some chose not to raid altogether and do other activities.  This is the same as in the big three.

 

So right now there is an even distribution between all of the raiders actually raiding and getting a shot at loot.  

 

The game is dieing for so many more reasons than just the raid rotation.  People are getting older, there are many other free to play MMOs out there, the grind to 150 is terrible, quests are hard to follow, etc.

Edited by Blackmercenary
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52 minutes ago, Blackmercenary said:

The game is dieing for so many more reasons than just the raid rotation.  People are getting older, there are many other free to play MMOs out there, the grind to 150 is terrible, quests are hard to follow, etc.

Not for me there wasn't. I stopped playing because I was tired of watching triggers just sit there floating around and not being able to raid unless I was prepared to sit up until 1am. How can a game seriously hope to maintain player's from the UK & surrounding timezones. Yes plenty start playing but after a while they all stop for that very reason.

Is the rotation needed? Def not or it would exist in other online game's and it doesn't, they all cope just fine go figure. It never existed in live and when all is said and done, here we all are trying to enjoy a game that was taken offline years ago, so we weren't deterred by the camping etc.

Bottom line is everything posted on this topic is a mute point as nothing will ever change right up to the point they turn the lights off.

This game in my experience has the best in game player base I have come across ( nothing was too much trouble when it came to help etc) but by far the worst system in game. Wall meet head and start banging when ready lol.

 

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You mentioned one problem that has affected you and is in the list of other problems affecting the game.  The odd times to raid.  

 

This will not be resolved by the raid rotation being removed.  Triggers will be killed whenever they are available.  That's the problem with non-instances raids.  

 

This is why we need triggers more now than ever.  So that U.K. Guilds can run their raid when they want to.  Along with east coast guilds etc.

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I agree maybe look at rotation changes or remove but the truth neither public or guilds have numbers. If the rotation was removed the same people that complaining here would be complaining that they never see Gobb or Troller cause they would not never see it. So frankly the complaining and crying getting annoying cause it's the same 3-4 people who complain. Pandatroll I have no idea who this person is but for sure all he has done or care about is forum trolling hard. If you crying about trigger take trigger and start a trigger war already and make the game fun :). But complaining about the same stuff over and over and blaming the rotation cause you bored of playing it's bull in my opinion.

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17 minutes ago, flamingpanda said:

^which guild are you in?

 

Your last post is quoted i wonder why you think im a troll ?

 

What guild are you in panda?  What's your agenda besides complaining.  You offer no constructive solutions and present no solid facts.  Most of your posts are negative in nature and offer solutions that typically alienate someone and don't solve the problem. There is a reason why you are negative in rating.

 

Let those invested in the community handle this and go on to troll another game.  I am sure there are larger audiences for your enjoyment.

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38 minutes ago, flamingpanda said:

You only view changing the rotation so its open to the entire public and removing any one guilds claim to an entire week of a particular raids trigger as none constructive because you're in one of the guilds that benefit from it ,

 

I've also suggestered in the past make them like the FB and GR triggers 

 

I've suggested making the rotation purely timezone and nothing to do with guilds 

 

I've suggested removing them and purely making PRS so no one guild can monopolize, 

 

I've suggested the devs taking a more active role and removing the rotation and letting whoever in the public wants to attend them but make it so you cannot box them this alone would stop alot of the bad behaviour that may ensue from no rotation, And lets face it the ones most likely to go around taking every raid are the few in the big 3 who want to keep the rotation and would do this type of thing to say i told you so if it was removed out of spite.

 

You know im right.

 

Long and short of it is , You cant give 3 out of 4 weeks of a rotation to a tiny minority and expect new players to see such structures and want to stay, The current state of the population was inevitable, The rotation may not be the only reason but its a big part of the lack of player retention

 

You have to ask yourself, When people always point out all these new people joining , Heres the question , Why if all these new players are joining is the server number FAR lower then it was this time last year and the year before etc etc?

 

Why to every person joining is there more then 1 leaving? Why is the server not even flatlining why are more people leaving then joining? 

 

Your questions have been answered.  There is no simple explaination of why this game is dieing.  (Hell Live already died for a reason) If the big guilds, which they are compared to the regular representation by the public, are struggling to find content with the game, why wouldn't everyone else struggle?  Also the raid rotation is not stopping regular public raiders from loot.  I have seen people from the public with multiple skull shields amongst their alts.

 

Raid timers don't work which is why they are virtually non-existent in modern MMOs.  Time zones alienate people, guild sizes alienate people, everything that deals with time based spawns alienates people.  Now a small minority would like to displace the majority.  

 

Where is our player advocate?  I think it would be nice to vote on what's most important to the progression of the game.  New content or fixing existing content availability?  We need the Devs to weigh in on the feasibility of triggers.

 

 

Edited by Blackmercenary
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Let's see what peoples Vote are to see really how many people are asking for change or just the 3-4 or if it's really big issue :)

 

VOTE HERE CLICK

Sorry to person who voted already please vote again as someone requested another option on poll

 

Keep in mind I am not Builders Inc GM or have anything to do with other 2 but really if it's such a big issue lets vote and see what we have.

Edited by Ravina
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Heh yeah I would agree lets see what we have in a week but yeah I was wrong not 3-4 :)

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I agree 100% with what you are doing but do you really think this poll is going to make a blind bit of difference regardless of the result?

I have my doubts but I will watch with interest and I tip my hat to you for at least trying.

Regards

PESTILENNCE. :ph34r:

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FYI, Your poll can be easily cheated by use of multiple devices, and by having multiple browsers on the same device. I voted, then checked it with Chrome.

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