Game Etiquette

[Teufel_Pferd]

I ran into a situation today that I've had happen to me in just about every MMO that I've played, spawn camp/spawn stealing. I'm not naive enough to believe that every spawn in a spot belongs to me, even if I was there first. I’m not so selfish that within reason I will share a spawn area.  But what happen today was enough of an aggravation that I had log off for a while and cool off and that is,  for ne the first sign that I might want to find another game to play regardless of how much I may like this one.

While leveling combat and RD faction at the Chavez camp in Odin’s Belt I noticed that just outside my scanner range a few corpses kept appearing.  Moving a little I noticed that I was sharing the spawn area with two other groups. Since my kill rate was rather slow, this didn’t present a problem at first, but one of the groups had two people it in and they were killing rather quickly.  Soon this two man group began to drift into the area where I was at, and pinch a few mobs from the fringes of my area, again my kill rate being what it was this wasn’t a problem but soon after not only did they grab every mob that spawned, but started overkilling mobs I had tagged to the point, I was left with nothing to kill and wasting ammo firing at mobs that popped up.

I tried sending a tell to the higher level of the two players, one was showing a pathetic the other impossible, but got no answer, with the same result when trying to communicate with the lower level  toon. 

 

My question is how should I, or we as a community, deal with this kind of situation.  Is the server going to be a Bully Palace where higher levels can just come into an area an take it over?  Or can we as players and GMs agree to some kind of etiquette protocols.  I don’t steal kills, and in fact will leave an area if someone is already there, but if the policies of the GMs and community are let the bullies rule, then at least we all know where we stand and how we should treat our fellow EnBers.

[dgvol]

That does seem like poor form.

 

The only solutions are going to come from the community self-policing itself.

[SiSL]

They may as well be macro players who are not actually there for faction hunting...

[GenghisBob]

You said they were far enough away that you didn't see them at first.  Is it possible that they were there first?  Or, if they didn't see you, they assumed that they were there first?  They may not have seen it as spawn stealing. 

 

In a large spawn area that you can't see across, it might be impossible to tell who was there first.  So, we might not want to use that as the rule as to who's spawn it is.

 

As far as not answering, if I'm killing/mining at a good clip, I need to pay attention to what I'm doing and the messages (mined this/ killed that) make other messages scroll of the screen very fast.  I often miss even private tells.

 

However, shooting at a MOB that has prior damage is somewhat of a no-no.  Not always possible to avoid (I may fire projectiles first but not hit until after a beam) but that should make one aware that someone else is in the area.

 

I know, I didn't give a good answer, just trying to point out why a 'simple answer' might not be the "right answer'.

[VincentTH]

My solution?  There are more than one spawn points for Chavez CL1x.  Also in JT there are 2 Chavez camps and at least 3 spawn points.  Same for Odin Rex with 3 camps and at least 7 spawn points.  There are also Freya, Venus and Neptune for Chavez mobs, just to name a few.

Remember you can only gain CL when the mobs is CL -10 or higher from your CL, so most high levels would not go into low level spawn points to grind, even for faction grind (cuz of the ammo cost).  On the other hand, if the high level player switch to Beam to save ammo cost, his CL of "Impossible" does not mean squat.

[Canman]

My solution?  There are more than one spawn points for Chavez CL1x.  Also in JT there are 2 Chavez camps and at least 3 spawn points.  Same for Odin Rex with 3 camps and at least 7 spawn points.  There are also Freya, Venus and Neptune for Chavez mobs, just to name a few.

Remember you can only gain CL when the mobs is CL -10 or higher from your CL, so most high levels would not go into low level spawn points to grind, even for faction grind (cuz of the ammo cost).  On the other hand, if the high level player switch to Beam to save ammo cost, his CL of "Impossible" does not mean squat.

That is always the answer someone gives when they just dont care about finding a solution to the problem. Meanwhile the offender always gets the spot for being a bully. My solution is show them you will do whatever it takes to NOT be bullied off the nav.

 

Entitled idiots feel just cause they show up at a nav they deserve it no matter if someone is there first. These sad little people have no concept of manors or morals. I mean really how hard is it to ask the person at the nav first if you can join. Here is another strange idea. If you see the nav is camped move on to another. 

[GenghisBob]

That is not a good solution either.  All the good navs would always be camped at higher levels.  You actually HAVE to go in and push campers (who have been there for days) off the navs to allow others a chance at the good loot.

 

Plus, in the example given, there may be some small doubt who was there first or at least if the 'offending' party was aware of other people when they started.

 

No game can be made perfect enough so no one ever feels slighted.  That is why, in real life, we have courts.  Someone always feels wronged.

 

Only solutions this game allows is to come back with bigger friends or move to another spot.  At least that's all I can think of at the moment.

[wmtyrance]

I notice that this is happening alot lately. Its just how the people that play mmos are these days.

[rhobix]

It seems to me that one factor enabling this kind of behaviour may be the use of a single spawn point. An appeal to the devs to spread the spawn out over an ample-sized area or multiple spawn points spread evenly over the patrol area of the mobs may reduce the impact of such behaviour on other players.

[Phorlaug[IS]]

It seems to me that one factor enabling this kind of behaviour may be the use of a single spawn point. An appeal to the devs to spread the spawn out over an ample-sized area or multiple spawn points spread evenly over the patrol area of the mobs may reduce the impact of such behaviour on other players.

I was going to suggest roaming sector wide spawns also.

Kind of like what they do for the Holiday Mob spawns.

[Mattsacre]

I tell you what we used to do during old live (tm). Our guild had a 3 strike rule. When some spawn was being accessed by a member of out guild, and they had someone else move in and start hogging the mobs, our members were taught to:

1.offer to join or add others to their group (when the anti-PLing dynamics got added..often offers got declined for obvious reasons)

2.share the mobs, try and forgo KSing theirs that they were obviously wailing on and ask the same. If there was a wait for fresh spawns, offering solutions like 1 for me 1 for you worked for other players that were polite.

3.try and be patient and ask others to please not continue their behavior, give them a few "oopsies" before they called in help.

 

If after they had done all that, they were to call in other guildies, hopefully a officer. A officer would try and work through those same steps with the offender, if they persisted, then they got another last warning of "you have been warned, you will not like our response."

 

If after all that was exhausted, we felt we had been more than generous and over patient and polite and proceeded to the "lesson" phase.

 

We would call out in local (so everyone could see what we were intending), that they had gotten warned at least 3 times and the guild was now taking action.

 

Lesson: We logged in maxed toons and a group of guild if possible and proceeded to clean out all spawns, even ones they had started on..i.e. we KSed them and everything in the area for 30 min.

 

Most often they got the message and either left, or reformed their actions and played nice after that, rarely if they were a guilded player they might complain to their officers, if the officers responded and they weren't already known to us, we had chat logs to show their members actions as evidence of the offenders poor behaviour. (Most often their officers already knew us and how reputable we were and just told their member to knock it off without any chats needed).

 

Extremely rare the other guild had a ass as officer and they wanted to compete and prove a point and try and "counter KS", in that case it became a fun sort of PvPE competition to see who could out do the other, sometimes with more than one guild coming to the impromptu  "event" with some joining to help out KS the ass(s) to make sure the point was made, PLAY NICE, AND WE WON'T MAKE YOUR PLAY UNPLEASANT.

 

I would suggest this for you, if you don't have a guild to turn to, ask nicely for some aid to help them stop that behavior in chat, you would be surprised who might show up to help modify the jerks actions, many of us hate bullies and will go out of our way to teach them manners.

Edited March 22, 2013 by Mattsacre

[Stanig[IS]]

Its an open world game.  No one owns a spawn.  Survival of the fittest.  However, we are grown up now and most of us play nice with each other.  Youll still get that egotistical jackass that thinks hes entitled to his single player game and cares nothing for those around him.

 

Unfortunately that person is entitled to be that way, there are no "rules" saying a person cant do exactly what this thread describes.

 

That being said, if its intentional harassment/griefing there might be cause to file a GM ticket, but realistically anything like that is gonna need proof (as in being witnessed, he said she said doesnt fly with blacklung as far as i know)

 

Beyond that, youre sorta stuck with whats been suggested... try to play and ask nice, and if that fails either move along or get some bigger nastier guys for backup.

 

Just the reality of open world PvE.

[jrichards]

Working as designed.  Bring a bigger gun/more players......or convince the devs to add enough chavez of all level to increase RD faction for all (I doubt this is even possible with RD faction being almost required for any end game players). 

 

Actually there is another pretty simple method of meeting everyone's needs, kind of like combat jobs. If the devs setup repeatable missions that creates groups of chavez mobs at the player's level.  Set these missions up in several spawn points over several sectors and tie the mobs to the quest player so that no other player, that is not grouped with the quest player, can aggro or kill the quest mobs.

 

Course this would take a bit of work. = ]

[Vitaes]

If it's a matter of killing Chavez simply for RD faction, you can always add RD jobs back to the terminals.

[Falstar [MOD]]

Talking to the player is of course the first and best course of action.  There is no reason two people or perhaps two groups can't kill in the same spawn, provided of course that it isn't a tiny spawn or mob that is often camped for an item.  The 1 for you 1 for me approach seems like the best solution, but then you've got waiting time which some people may not like. 

 

I'd say intentionally taking the mob you started on is KSing unless of course they couldn't see you.  I ran into an issue where I was shooting missiles at a mob, and another player annihilated them very quickly, so my damage wasn't very evident.  That along with the fact that we couldn't see each other for a bit made it frustrating, but we worked it out.

 

Technically according to the COC, KSing is not allowed.  Providing you could provide adequate proof to the GMs, that may be a route if everything else failed.  Making an area unplayable is also against the COC, although the GMs would determine specifics, and of course depends on what proof you can provide.

 

Hopefully this thread will remind everyone to play nice and pay attention while playing so you don't miss those tells or the fact that the last 3 mobs you killed were already damaged.