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Taallonn

Im done

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After reading af_vet's response to the kill steal thread and his lack of knowledge on what actually happened, jumping to conclusions from a one sided screen shot. I have to say I'm done with this. If someone in a role such as his cannot get both sides of what happened and immediately jumps to a wrong conclusion, then what's the use of even playing this game. The game is supposed to be fun but I find no joy when the Head GM plans on banning a guild and has not even taken the steps necessary of his position to see what actually happened.

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Eh, didn't the guy just say the guild was just going to get dissolved rather than entirely banned?

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Ok this is getting crazy . for a player to leave and a good player like taallon to leave.this is getting stupid .now i know vonbon.and he wouldn't ks or tell the guild to ks. unless you get the full chat dont beleive 1 side over the other. if thats the case i for 1 will also leave .i dont want to but if vonbon is banned because of 1 side of the story .then politics are running crazy in this game.i for 1 will not stand it .and will not go along with that kind of games.

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I'll let you guys get in a few more cheap shots at me before I respond to this thread.

You guys do not know Vonbon the way you *think* you do.

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*has no idea who Vonbon is and doesn't care, but that last post was just sad*

Baiting people isn't typically in the job description of GMs, nor is airing dirty laundry...?

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If af-vet just closes the topic a new one starts about him.. if he says anything to defend his actions he gets flamed.

We dont know if AF vet has read the logs and seen what happened. and we dont know what he knows what we do not... But if he made a statement about a player

then he must have is reasons or evidence to back what he says...

Just think maybe we Should step back take a break... before things happen we dont want happen

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First, I would like to thank Dorrin for his support of the GM department. You are right. I sit back in the darkness of space watching.. listening.. and I will *not* say something on this forum regarding another individual that I cannot back up with hard fact.

I would like for you all and the rest of the community to know and understand what it is the GM Department actually does in this particular game.

For starters, the GM department does NOT ban anyone. It is the responsibility of the NET-7 Entertainment Board of Directors to make these calls. When a player, or situation goes beyond reason, it is the GMs who will step in and calm things down first of all and then collect evidence from both sides to make a decision relating to a situation.

The GM Department can, and will, suspend a player for gross violations of the Code of Conduct.

Normally we do not.

Typically when a situation is disruptive or causes other type of 'grief,' disruption of normal game play or other distress we give players what is known as a "Soft Warning."

A "Soft Warning" is typically a notification that an individual is in violation of the Terms of Service or Code of Conduct and that proceeding with the specific behavior that the person is exhibiting *can* result in action being taken. If the individual is defiant or repeats the offense then a "Formal Warning" is given.

I will stop here and say that we have modified our own policies that make things more lenient. We will step in, however, if a situation is exacerbate to a point of being out of control. We would like to step in before that happens but it is not the function of the GM department to "rule" the game.

If after the "Formal Warning" is given and the aberrant behavior still continues then the GM department will step in and give the offending individual a suspension *only.*

From there the suspensions start with twenty four hours and go upward until there is an unconditional suspension while an actual "case" is developed and presented to the board for a permanant solution. I must tell you though... you really have to do allot of bad things to get to that point and while I apologize, I feel I owe the community protection from predation of any other player.

We take these steps and have actually increased our leniency so that if a player actually makes it to the point of a board review.. he has really screwed the pooch... as they say.

Personally I wish I didn't have to do this. I wish this players behavior was such that we did not have to take this depth of a measure. This player however, has consistently violated CoC and project policies so this basically is a "last straw." I am not out to get this person.. what I AM out to do is protect the community from the threats and actions that certain people think they can get away with. The GM department does not make the rules, we control how they are enforced. And to date... we have gone above and beyond to help players with in game issues.

Unfortunately, due to certain circumstances, some of these leniencies we have heretofore shown and given now have to stop. It is truly unfortunate that certain people have to "ruin" things for the entire project community, but this is what has happened.

I will end now by saying that the individual that you -think- you know.. is not the actual individual that he appears to be. Just food for though.. something to chew on.

Thank you for your time,

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First I'd like to thank AF, if for nothing else than giving us a little insight to how things work that we don't get to see. And reguarding Vonbon, I don't know him and until yesterday had never spoken to him. If what AF says is true, and I see no reason he'd lie and risk his ability to help the game run more smoothly, then steps have to be taken for the better-ment of the community and the game. There will always be certains players that thrive on domination. Theres nothing wrong with having an amazing character in the game, the problem arises when someone uses that character's power to disrupt the community. I played some in ST2, very little in ST3, and have become pretty active in ST4. I've seen on more than one occassion someone from VonCorp threating another player with the 'wrath' of VonCorp if they didn't bow to them. That cannot be allowed to go unchecked. If it does, you'll be left with a handful of players playing on the server.

In my opinion there are two outcomes to this issue: the first is the current one being discussed where a player has to be removed. The other is to do nothing about him or her, and lose other players because of them. I don't know about you, but if I just came to this EMU today and saw a player was abusing the game mechanics repeatedly and nothing was done I'd be less likely to join that game. when it comes down to it, once the EMU is more polished and closer to a LIVE status and word spreads, you'll gain players at an alarming rate. But those players will not stick around and put up with a 'corrupt' community, they have no reason to stay and try to "get their money" out of it.

Just my 2 credits on it...

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So your talking to some guy and he's taking out pictures of the wife and kids and you all are having a great time. then he pulls a gun and robs you, you yell at him because your anrgy that this seemingly nice person just stole from you.

Cops come, throw you in jail for profanity cause your picking up your kid from school when it happens. Now your in the big house for a day cause you cursed in anger, while the thief is out there laughing all the way to the bank.

Sorry, the punishment doesn't fit the crime, and to sit there and blame the entire guild for this, and punishment with the threat of disbanding is totally uncalled for.

Edit: If i spent 30-40 minutes, clearing all the minions, circle kiting them solo and someone warped in to take the boss that they didn't even work for....i would be upset too, just like anyone else it happened to

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I agree disbanding the guild may be a little harsh. But dont sit there and try to say VonCorp is all innocent and never does this exact same thing. I've seen it myself in Cooper. Sitting on a nav, clearing adds and such does not mean you own the boss. VonCorp is all "KS'ing doesnt exsist, its game mechanics" until they are on the receiving end of it then its not fair. If you want to try and be the server bully, thats up to you. But be a man a live with the consequences, eventually you are gonna run into people that say "No, I'm not rolling over and taking it or bowing to you".

Sorry, I've tried to remain polite with my posting until now. But I know personally that VonCorp does this same thing to people and you cannot cry foul when the favor is returned.

EDIT: I'm going to refrain from posting about this anymore. Its not worth me getting marks on my forum account and I've said my peice on it.

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It looks like both sides were presented to AF_Vet. Vonbon presented his side first, but jack had a screenshot to present his side.

I don't consider it condonable behavior from either side

jack and moon were a bit rude and stole vonbon's boss. They didn't exactly respond nicely to vonbon's accusations.

"11. Players may not engage in Kill Stealing"

as shown by the screenshot vonbon was also rude. he insulted them and threatened them.

"4. You may not harass, threaten, or otherwise show belligerent behavior towards other players.

it's vonbon's past that puts him in deeper trouble apparently. I'll leave that up to the GM team if they want to elaborate.

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This subject is now getting out of hand,in my opinion it shouldn't have got to this point.

The parties involved should have sorted this out in PM's and not in Public chat or on these forums,if the GM's got involved again that should have been done by PM's ingane or on the PM's forums.

The Powers that be have to think about the player base they have and potential players,if a new player saw some of this that's been said and done they migfht think is it worth it? also the player base as it now start to think "ohh wow is it worth playing with all this going on"

We all know there's alot of "Drama Queens" out there but lets not let it start to reflect on the game,personaly i have no quarms with Vonbon or the GM's but i feel a little more Discretion ingame and Forums is needed.

Kahk :)

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Testing the game, or even playing the game again should be treated as a privilege not a right. Is getting that boss spawn and violating the TOS worth not being able to play EnB? I don't think so...

Thats the question that really needs to be asked, is why did it even have to come to that point. In situations like this, a persons true colors comes out and really, thats not what the EnB community is all about. I play the game because of the player interaction and pure love of the game. Really there isn't alot of content after you hit 150 and get the "end game" items you need.

The pure enjoyment of the game, building items, seeking that blue print of an item and really just hanging out with guildies and friends. I look forward to the time I do have to spend in the game, however if I had to deal with players conducting themselves like the parties involved in these incidents, it would really make things unenjoyable.

So...in short....play to enjoy the game and community...and try to make it enjoyable for others...IMHO

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I played some in ST2, very little in ST3, and have become pretty active in ST4. I've seen on more than one occassion someone from VonCorp threating another player with the 'wrath' of VonCorp if they didn't bow to them. That cannot be allowed to go unchecked. If it does, you'll be left with a handful of players playing on the server.

Shame on you for deliberately using one of the "biggest" known guild's for an example in the EMU. When you know other guilds are capable of committing the same act out of confusion. ie: Static-X, FF, BlackStar, ect...

It looks like both sides were presented to AF_Vet. Vonbon presented his side first, but jack had a screenshot to present his side.

I don't consider it condonable behavior from either side

jack and moon were a bit rude and stole vonbon's boss. They didn't exactly respond nicely to vonbon's accusations.

"11. Players may not engage in Kill Stealing"

as shown by the screenshot vonbon was also rude. he insulted them and threatened them.

"4. You may not harass, threaten, or otherwise show belligerent behavior towards other players.

it's vonbon's past that puts him in deeper trouble apparently. I'll leave that up to the GM team if they want to elaborate.

lol Again that would be undeniable personal towards Vonbon in my opinion because the biggest crime here that no one has mentioned is slandering Vonbon's user name throughout the EMU forums!!! Now I never meet the guy and feel some sympathy for him because after all I have witness more justified cases IRL then this crap. To indicate that no apologize OPTION from the HGM and GMs alike, were not available nor thought of or otherwise used in this crap case of KSing w/e. Then the continuation cases of other predation of "ebil players" is terrible prevented. Then the "ebil players" don't learn anything by getting ban hammered by a GM only jury, without that player apologizing to the victim before hand!!!

Another words, Take it only to the next step if neither player is welling to apologize after they hear the consequences first.

Although I can't imagine why the GMs can't take this responsibility seriously on their own when AF_vet always having to sadly interrupt a connection that the players might finally understand between each other (friend or foe) and come to their own arguments here on the forums.

quote name='kahkarot' date='20 February 2010 - 03:51 AM' timestamp='1266659472' post='9166']

This subject is now getting out of hand,in my opinion it shouldn't have got to this point.

The parties involved should have sorted this out in PM's and not in Public chat or on these forums,if the GM's got involved again that should have been done by PM's ingane or on the PM's forums.)

/quote

Thank you for pointing that Out Kahkarot I agree with that and so should the GMs and Players alike. In fact shouldn't the GMs know better? I would figure they would but then again their tend to drop like flies for a secretive reason then we no nothing about. :)

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Shame on you for deliberately using one of the "biggest" known guild's for an example in the EMU. When you know other guilds are capable of committing the same act out of confusion. ie: Static-X, FF, BlackStar, ect...

Static??? did someone say Static? let us know if we are being blamed for doing sumtin cuz if we are gonna take heat... I am sure we can actually perform the action in order to justify it :P

jk btw... couldnt pass it up... but that reminds me of getting a speeding ticket the one time that you were not speeding... or coming home and catching my 17 year old son in the shower with his GF and have him tell me they didnt have sex... and I was like... well if you didnt have sex, then you should have, cuz I aint beleiving anything different :)

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I understand that a GM intervenes when he sees it posted on the forum, if only just to show his teeth and test his GM skills since this is still a ST.

But in the future can the player maybe not post this on the forum so easily - resolve the matter ingame instead and don't be a pussy :)

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I was part of Voncorps until a few minutes ago and i must say...

whatever the whole story is... just the fact he(being guild leader) could say such childish things leaves a bad taste in my mouth , so staying in a guild where I have the label 'voncorp' on me was not a option.

But I don't see why he needs to be banned...

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Let me start out by saying that my main toon is a PW named Cyric. He is a member of the VonCorp guild and has been since ST3. Officers in VonCorp (including Von) have always told us never to KS. As a consequence (and also because I find it highly distateful) I don't do it. I have always found Von to be one of the most helpful and respectful players in the game. Because of his leadership and the commitment of the guild officers in always trying to help each and every member, I am extremely proud to be part of this fine guild.

On many occasions, I and other members of the guild have given weapons and equipment freely to members of other guilds. We have grouped with members of other guilds and shared the bounty equally amongst them. Are there times when some members over-react to certain events .. of course. All guilds and individual players are guilty of this on occasion. It happens! Part of the problem lies with the fact that resources are highly contrained and the dropping of prized loot is so rare. Case in point: someone wil always be camping Nav 6 in Slayton hoping to kill the L27 there and get a Tani Pride, one of the most sought after of devices. That particular L27 is the only one that drops it and he doesn't drop it often. Therefore there is always going to be contention for that device. One of our members just told us about an incident where he has been camping that spot for quite a long time when a group came in just as the L27 spawned and killed him because of their superior numbers. You can say all you want about thats fine to do because they had the dps edge but the fact is, it causes problems between the players. It's human nature. Our member had spent quite a bit of personal time waiting to be rewarded and had it taken right away. That type of behavior does not cause harmony between players.

I personally camped the BBG spawn back in ST3 for a period of over 2 weeks in hopes of getting a black spitter. I killed BBG (and ALL his minions) at least 25 times and NEVER got it. If I had waited all that time and someone came in and killed him when he spawned, I'm sure I would have been offended. On the other hand, if they had been camping the spot and I saw them there when I arrived, I would have left. It isn't hard to have respect for other players. Sometimes we have to put our own personal wants and desires out of the way and just do what is right.

In conclusion let me say this. In my experience, Von has always been a fair and generous leader who has taught his guild members to love the game and be respectful of other players. That is a fact. I have also always found Jack to be a generous and giving person who has been willing to share valuable combat xp with lesser players from other guilds (including myself).

I do not know Af-vet, but I must say that his comments seem very personal to me. The wording of his post seems almost like a contrived vendetta against VonBon. While I have the utmost respect for all of the Devs/GMs and the incredible job they have done in keeping this game alive, I have to say that from my own personal experience I have found them to sometimes jump to conclusions and exhibit behavior that is questionable. We are all human and we can all make mistakes. Sometimes we just have to overlook wrong behavior and realize it is the exception and not the rule.

Saurron/Cyric

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I have to agree with Saurron...

I don't personally know any of the involved parties in this, but, I would say at face value both were in the wrong.

The GM that responded above may have more "book" as it were to look at, But! needs to keep personal feelings and comments out of it, and certainly off of chats and forums that are public.

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"11. Players may not engage in Kill Stealing"

Exactly what is the official definition of 'Kill Stealing'? I am not asking what people think it is, much has been said about that without any real agreement, but I would like to know which definition is used by the GM's.

//Wex

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I would just like to state for the record: Had I known posting that screenshot would get a player suspended I would not have posted it, even though there is a "Mark" on my head.

I have no personal beef with vonbon or anyone for that matter. I love this game and being back in it is such a joy. What nobody knows is that the very next BB spawn, Moon and I went back and Von had help that time and beat us. Did we get upset? Quite the contrary, we congratulated them in local chat and asked what they got. They didn't respond but I didn't feel robbed or anything like that. I will stress again, when you have rare items on a timed spawn, NOBODY owns the boss. Anyone that thinks it's theirs should be playing a single player game IMO.

Personally I would not camp it all day long either, that is just selfish. Again this is just my opinion. Competition is good and fun. Von, I am sorry you got suspended, and if you get back in game I'd gladly group with you and tackle rare spawns together. I hold no grudge and would hope as a guild leader in the community that you do not either.

Please let's just bury this thing once and for all and just enjoy "our" game :)

Peace

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sorry but I been dying to say this eva since this topic posted...

someone puhlez stick a fork in me... I'm done with too... not sure with what... but thats what the fork is for

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I've been staying away from this to let things cool down , I must say one thing 1st..... I do Apologize for my behavor that nite... i lost my head over something silly... yes i was wronged but that doesnt mean that i should act like that , and for this I Deeply Apologize....

for those that KNOW ME , know im not that kind of person in game or out in real life i am a very caring and giving person...

i will also talk to jackpw and moonpw in game to let them know the same as above...

as for me , i consider this part of the past and will move on having learned from it...

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