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Edit: v- Go ahead and ignore to some point, looks like peoples tears changed the rules from excessive language to language

So, Since some people freak out and harass people mainly over if they say a offensive word 'curse'. In which since they harass theses people for being new/human beings. While they are TRYING and PURPOSELY trying to harass or cause a-lot of attention to someone. In which aren't they up for a level 1 suspension due to breaking.

1) You may not harass, threaten, embarrass, stalk, or cause distress, unwanted attention, or discomfort to another player.

Usually 'listening' to them bicker at people cause me discomfort and distress due to I hate when "real" people fight for 'blood' and not just 'fun' (gaming) or 'sport' (boxing.)

In which if I can get these people removed for harassment. I believe I'll be much more relaxed and I think my IQ might increase. :-)

I find it okay for a 'normal' to point out its wrong, but when it goes to 30 minutes of debating and whining at someone. That's to the point of harassment and breaking rule 1.

Enjoy, give me your opinions. Since usually dicussing things like this end up with 95% of the people in thread breaking a ToS rule. :-)

-Welcome To The World Of Humans. We may not be perfect, but we have rules we try to enforce.

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Since we are not suppose to give unwanted attention either. ^^ So no naming names. Course I know who you were talking to earlier. :-)

Though I'm pretty sure I have the right to report that offender because of rule 1.

Also WTB This Rule. Read: It means read the channel names. If it does not deal with the channel in some form you should not do it. Possible global mute in public chats etc. Something like that.

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Okay – so I am one of the people who thinks the "F" word is unacceptable. Seems to be going on a lot in New Players channel. You're right – I'll just shut it off. And from now on, I'll say nothing. I'll just report the incident. I'll let the devs decide if they want to do something about it. I am a parent. My sons have played online for years. If you guys have no concern for whether or not kids are online....

No more comments – snapshots and reports only.

By the way... I find the language offensive. If you want to twist the TOS up in knots....

Gods of EnB – perhaps you might want to sort this out somewhat. Where do you want to draw the line in the sand? I'm happy to follow the rules just as you wish. I point out the language, shut up, and others go on for hours about language police. I'll forward you my chat log so you can see just who was ranting. It wasn't me.

Yes folks – we have black and white chat logs that show just who was saying what. Watch what you ask for.

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Apparently some people are out of touch with what goes on at their child's school? I remember when I went to school, cursing was probably one of the more innocuous things going on. Sad to say you can't shield your children from the world. The sooner they learn about things the better. For some reason people seem to think that it's everyone's job to keep bad influences away from thier kids instead of teaching their kids what's acceptable and what's not. Don't seem to get that, but then again i had to grow up fast.

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Apparently some people are out of touch with what goes on at their child's school? I remember when I went to school, cursing was probably one of the more innocuous things going on. Sad to say you can't shield your children from the world. The sooner they learn about things the better. For some reason people seem to think that it's everyone's job to keep bad influences away from thier kids instead of teaching their kids what's acceptable and what's not. Don't seem to get that, but then again i had to grow up fast.

Like I said. It's up to the bosses. And as for school, I was right on top of that. Raising kids is a constant job and a fun one at that. I think I discovered more about the world and about myself with my children at my side. It was great.

I'm saying I did not rant. That's an outright lie. I mentioned it, saw the ragging that was going on, and bowed out of the conversation. If people don't like something they can go on and on for hours. I did not do so. I want to have fun and play the game. But some people would rather grid issues into the ground. As you can see, they are still grinding. :)) Some people have nothing better to do than to make a comment a full out fight.

If the big guys want to allow what was becoming excessive profanity, I will deal with it. Life goes on.

Again - like I said - it's all in the chat logs.

I have nothing more to say on this issue. It's not my ballgame.

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Yes Tor, that is exactly what one should do. (If someone was being offensive enough to actually matter to me--unlikely--I would personally ask the person via tell to stop so as to not have to report them) but quietly reporting someone is far better than throwing a fit and trying to start a lynch mob, which is the typical strategy for people who go crazy on someone for an F-bomb. You yourself were not doing that as far as I noticed, but others were. I challenged the lynch mob because the guy said one bad word and that was it (by any rational estimation, NOT a violation of the TOS), and I don't back down from monkey-mind behavior like lynch mobs. I consider that behavior far more abhorrent than an occasional bad word--mind you I wouldn't care to see someone tossing toads and snakes any more than you would, but perspective is necessary.

As for the kid thing, no, I don't care about that. Why? Because it is your responsibility to blank the channel, advise your kids what to expect, or take them offline if you feel it is necessary. If I were going into a daycare I'd switch my speech register (see below) but I won't do it to play an online game populated (primarily) by adults. The game was rated T for Teen not E for Everyone and I don't imagine that's any different now. I don't know of many MMOs outside of Hello Kitty Online that would be suitable for one who is as sensitive as some people claim to be.

I don't mean this as a personal insult, but I suspect that if the subject ever came up with your kids of someone else swearing, you would inform the kids that the language was "bad" or--if you're like many people of that mentality I've had the misfortune to encounter, that the person was "bad". I don't recall if you specifically said that but others certainly did. I like kids. I think their minds should be stimulated, not their sense of superiority, and I pray you have a similar belief and don't spend your parenting time preaching about how evil people who swear are. *shrug* IMHO it's best to ignore the subject entirely with kids except a bland "swearing is counterproductive in many situations" because if you get all worked up about it kids will associate your emotional responses to the words--which won't help anyone. (Just my opinion.)

No, it's not "bad" to use an occasional swear word. It means very little to many people simply because certain words register in the brain as associations to linguistic concepts and language formation is largely an automatic process. To override that process and speak (or type--there is little difference especially in a realtime, chat situation) in another register usually requires a specific social stimulus, for example, formal speech used in a job interview. I'm not in a job interview while playing E&B. I speak very informally while in a chat setting--just like I would if I were hanging out with friends--and if an occasional bad word slips out, c'est la vie. I'll get over it. You should too. If I get banned for it I'll get banned--and won't hold much of a grudge toward the GMs who did it, as long as their response was proper and they were following their own rules. I try to swear in other languages since I've installed a lot of those words in my linguistic matrix. *shrug*

Lastly, my observations suggest that many people (not saying you) who go on about language are indeed the arrogant "better-than-you" type. Probably the majority of the people I encounter in games (I've had a variant on this conversation many times before--note that I've never been banned from any online game and only once from a forum, and that instance was because I called Condeleeza Rice a chest-beating gorilla and forgot that some people consider that a racial slur LOL) behave like lynch mobs, trying to find some reason to hate on other people, from game strategies to political views (in those forums that allow such discussions) to Windows vs. Macs. Language is one of their favorites. And so I bicker it out with them. Futilely, I know. Bad habit I suppose.

In any case, no anger or malice or disrespect to any parties is intended on my part. Consider it a philosophical disagreement and move on, if you don't enjoy flaming arguments as amusing and stimulating as I do.

Peace. :)

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i think harsh language should be kept in check in-game however there is an implied consent and knowledge that when you log into an MMO or go to any gathering of people there will be some who will offend YOUR idea of what is offensive and what isn't. theres no way around it. if its so bad for you 1. i dont know how you get through life and 2. log off and come back later.

there are SO many things YOU can do to remove yourself from the situation you find offensive. is it fair sometimes? no of course not but guess what...life isnt always fair. yes that may be a shock to some but its time you learned it.

again im not condoning harsh language in games but i also know its going to happen and dont make a big deal about it. simply correct the person in a tell and leave it. one last thing...please dont get angry when someone turns the TOS rules that you used against you to point something out. thats just plain silly.

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I like Toreava and this is not aimed at her, or anyone for that matter.

Some people think in their minds that just because someone's vocabulary differs from their own in a way they deem inappropriate, that upon said person using any objectionable phrase, they are immediately "free game" for harassment and name calling. For example:

In new players chat...

Dudeone: Holy ($%## #$#)$(! that mob practically took my head off! glad i got away with only 24 points left on my $#$@##ing hull!

Persontwo: You are a bad person and deserve to be ridiculed for using such bad words. I hate you!!!

Otherperson: WTB Sanity, as much as you got. PST!

If someone's using words that are not nice, but as part of a regular inflammatory sentence like the one above, then just let it go. Chances are your kids know what those words are, and I hope you know what they are too. Gross abuse should absolutely be kept under control, but I've seen flame wars start on NP chat over a statement very similar to my example above.

Let's just get along! We all love this game, don't we?

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I think we just have to keep it real in the chat you know - adding a bit of colour to your talk is fine if it's in context (the quote above - just escaping death by the skin of your teeth is a fine example); but it gets really tiring if every sentence is laden with expletives.

I have no desire to add in a compulsory chat filter like we had in live, although I can add optional an optional chat filter for those who don't want to read expletives, I'm not mocking that choice either because it'd be a shame to lose even one player because of this issue.

Also don't forget there is a way to ignore the comments of any players onto your ignore list, which persists between sessions, I think you get to it via the friends menu in game.

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Persontwo: You are a bad person and deserve to be ridiculed for using such bad words. I hate you!!!

Rarely happens that way. Most just hit the filter or use ignore, whichever is available. Most that don’t use profanity are not likely to get into childish arguments in the way you described. Profanity is usually just a poor replacement for wit. It's a world where words mean something, and the word "hate" too is often used in appropriate context. More like "I feel sorry for you" since such a person nine times out of ten cant even speak coherently, they never try. I can see people getting riled up though, those with their children present etc.. they have a very good argument.
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Rarely happens that way. Most just hit the filter or use ignore, whichever is available. Most that don’t use profanity are not likely to get into childish arguments in the way you described. Profanity is usually just a poor replacement for wit. It's a world where words mean something, and the word "hate" too is often used in appropriate context. More like "I feel sorry for you" since such a person nine times out of ten cant even speak coherently, they never try. I can see people getting riled up though, those with their children present etc.. they have a very good argument.

The ones who "don't use profanity" (and want to tell everyone about that) most certainly are the ones who get into childish arguments. I've seen it time and time again in any number of places. And the very-common misconception that someone who swears doesn't have "wit" or "can't even speak coherently" and such nonsense very often comes into the discussion, just like it did here. That statement is complete rubbish (thanks, but I have all the "wit" and English skills I need, as do many other people who use bad words)--and another example of the "don't use profanity" crowd's belief that they're better than those who do. I'm not compelled to insult other people either...

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Apparently some people are out of touch with what goes on at their child's school? I remember when I went to school, cursing was probably one of the more innocuous things going on. Sad to say you can't shield your children from the world. The sooner they learn about things the better. For some reason people seem to think that it's everyone's job to keep bad influences away from thier kids instead of teaching their kids what's acceptable and what's not. Don't seem to get that, but then again i had to grow up fast.

Right, lieing or bending the truth when it comes to your children could back fire once they find out the real truth, they may never trust you again. I treated my son like an adult since he was able to talk and now he is 8 and behaves much like an adult when compared to other 8 year olds. Better to hear it from their parents than someone else.

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whether you are a child or an adult cursing is always inappropriate imho and it never solves anything... most of the time if you take the literal translation of what a swear statement is, it does not even make sense... it has been my experience in life that you will go further by not cursing (note, your experiences may vary)... but I am a debater as well, and I just found it more useful to insert words that contain meanings that directly and more accurately describe the point I am trying to make over curses/slang/explextives that really do not provide relevant content to my statements...

and there is an upside to not cursing, and this is rather funny but if you try it you will see it works 100%... after a period of time of refraining from cursing, people begin to notice and they classify you as a non-curser... so sometimes (and you cant do this too often) if you really want to drive a point home or instantly win an argument I will drop in a single curse...

people will be so shocked that I cursed that its like a big I WIN! button and the mice start scurrying for their lives cuz omg he cursed RUN! it's amazingly funny to watch, especially because many times when people curse there may be some emotions that lead up to it, where I was just calm cool and acting, so I can fully enjoy the show

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Please whatever you do...if you are a curser or not..if you MUST have a expletive ladden convo then do so between the parties involved. The occasional slipped curse word isn't something to go all ape crazy about either. I curse on occasion especially when enraged...not proud that I do..its something I think of as a character flaw of MINE (not judging others!).

But let me tell you as beta tester and a live player of E&B before it went retail there was no filter..we all got along and nobody ever pushed it. But after the game went retail and it had a T.een rating they had to put in a language filter to comply with that rating. The filter was a nightmare! Sometimes it was funny like it would "!@#$%% half a word that was in no way a curse word and we would all laugh. But other times it really messed with game dynamics and everyone had to use work arounds. EXAMPLE: the filter would pop up every time you said OMP or Orsini Mining Platform. ^$#!@$ *^#*^$ platform was what came out. That got REAL tedious when you was trying to meet there for a grissom run or a build.

So hey don't push the edge on the langauge eh? Don't ruin it for others..we REALLY don't want that piece of junk filter they had in live to be installed!It's the old simple golden rule: Do unto others what you would have done to you. I.E. If you don't like to be flamed or heaped on..don't do it to others!

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I was raised by members of an extremely religious cult and when I broke out I swore like a sailor, so I can kinda see both sides here. The thing is I've always kept a highly trained "brain to mouth (or in the case of chat: fingers) filter", I could be hanging with friends, cussing up a storm and the second an elderly person or child walked in the room I'd instantly switch to "clean speech" while keeping the mood the same.

<br><br>

1) You may not harass, threaten, embarrass, stalk, or cause distress, unwanted attention, or discomfort to another player.

<br><br>Essentially, what it all boils down to this: At no point in time should one person invade upon the rights/comfort level of another. This includes swearing AND harassing someone because they swore. Sure, slip ups occur, but when they do is an "I'm sorry" or "I apologize" or even just "sorry" totally out of the question? And to those that MUST say something to the swearer.... Say it once and be done with it.

<br><br>I feel I must point out that I was one of the no names online that night and from what I saw of that whole conversation/argument it was those defending the swearing that kept the conversation going for at least 1.5 hours (I say at least because after that I gave up and turned off New Players) thereby affecting MY comfort lvl.

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The ones who "don't use profanity" (and want to tell everyone about that) most certainly are the ones who get into childish arguments. I've seen it time and time again in any number of places. And the very-common misconception that someone who swears doesn't have "wit" or "can't even speak coherently" and such nonsense very often comes into the discussion, just like it did here. That statement is complete rubbish (thanks, but I have all the "wit" and English skills I need, as do many other people who use bad words)--and another example of the "don't use profanity" crowd's belief that they're better than those who do. I'm not compelled to insult other people either...

Sooooo.... using a four letter word every forth word is a coherent conversation? uuuh-huh heh good luck with that ;)
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*snicker* So Daywolf, you're saying I can't speak or write proper English because I swear in some situations? Good luck proving that. Especially to anyone who knows me personally. ;)

I'm spaghetti-o's not mentioning any heart valve names here, I Lamborghini assure you. So if you zeppelin think I'm submarine transport party pointing fingers at any corn stalk individual person, you are supercalifragilisticexpialidocious mistaken.

Anyway, you seem to be twisting the issue, it‘s not one extreme position or the other of two. No one ever said not ever. There are those that do continually, it’s part of their regular vocabulary, and those words really said with absolutely no meaning or purpose than to color a dull and unimaginative sentence. Sounds stupid really, just throwing repetitive words in that really mean little to nothing.

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I know plenty of unintelligent people who don't swear at all. And plenty who do. And plenty of intelligent people who swear like sailors. And plenty who don't. In the real world there's little correlation. Yet the claim for correlation and even causation is annoyingly common--and guess what, it's always used by the people who don't swear--whether or not they are intelligent. :D

The fact is that people simply talk how they talk and it really doesn't mean a damned thing, and to try to make it mean something is silly and counterproductive to intelligent discourse.

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The fact is that people simply talk how they talk and it really doesn't mean a damned thing,

Well that's where we are on different sides of the fence in this matter. Words mean something to some, but to others it just how it all relatively sounds. It's not about book learning intelligence, plenty of Doctorates out there than cant even think their way out of a paper bag, it's quite a bit more than that. Maybe schools should start teaching the three R's once again rather than all this backwards social engineering baloney. So nuff said, won't ever see eye to eye on it, though that still does not make it acceptable in game chat.
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I agree fully that the school systems are a joke. I read a job application from a kid, a high-school senior who was apparently a 3.9 GPA or somesuch. Her application was so rife with spelling and grammar errors I wanted to reach through the paper and smack her with an English book. And it's hardly unique. The schools do need fixed. (Heh, I'm only 30 and I'm already complaining about "kids these days".)

What's acceptable in game chat, in my book, is exactly what the TOS says. No excessive profanity. There's some leeway on the part of the enforcers and the enforcees as to what "excessive" means, with consequences to each. If words are so important then I'll take the writer of that document literally and precisely.

Words mean plenty to me. I'm a writer for God's sake. But sentences mean more. Paragraphs mean more still. And beyond all of those are thoughts, ideas. THAT'S what matters, not an interchangeable chunk of letters or sounds. I--or practically anyone else on this planet--can say any given thought ten different ways. Which one we end up using is just whichever string of gibberish our brain serves up. Pay attention to the ideas, the intentions. Otherwise nobody learns s***--book learning and doctorates and soaped mouths notwithstanding--and we just generate more bad energy and pass it on to the next poor b******.

[Edited to attenuate rudeness. My apologies.]

Edited by Mneme
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