Mob AI

[r8rsfans75]

Anybody ever see Monty Python's Search for the Holy Grail? Every time the knights were in a battle they would yell "Run Away"? Thats what it seems the mob AI is right now. I have been taking my Terran and my Progen a few places to try to farm some CL's and it seems whenever a mob is at least the same level or anywhere lower, it will always run away. It's difficult to find one spot to just sit and tank mobs, you have to start chasing them and hope you get them all the way down before they fly out of your weapon range. Not a huge problem with the Terran's missile range, or really the progen who's projectile range now is similar to that of a lower level ML, but it's almost impossible to farm with my JE's tiny beam range.

[Phorlaug[IS]]

Anybody ever see Monty Python's Search for the Holy Grail? Every time the knights were in a battle they would yell "Run Away"? Thats what it seems the mob AI is right now. I have been taking my Terran and my Progen a few places to try to farm some CL's and it seems whenever a mob is at least the same level or anywhere lower, it will always run away. It's difficult to find one spot to just sit and tank mobs, you have to start chasing them and hope you get them all the way down before they fly out of your weapon range. Not a huge problem with the Terran's missile range, or really the progen who's projectile range now is similar to that of a lower level ML, but it's almost impossible to farm with my JE's tiny beam range.

I like the New AI<--Click

I think they're experimenting with it a little.

I'd like to see more of the Swarming effect on the NPC, then see the last one in the MOB make a run for it.

Running NPC does make you appreicate a JD (Summons) and PW (Gravity link ?)

Phorlaug...

[r8rsfans75]

Don't misunderstand my intent, I do like the idea of improving a mob's AI and having them run away in certain situations is called for, but a CL13 mob running away from a CL13 JE seems a bit extreme. A renegade progen running away from any battle is just plain wrong. Summons and Grav Link are nice, but there are 7 other classes that do not have these capabilities and no other way to stop the mobs from getting away.

[Lot]

I've seen mobs one combat level lower than my character turn and flee.

The AI should only make a mob turn and flee if the combat level of the character shooting at the mob is hugely more than the combat level of the mob - IIRC that's how it was in live. For example the character is higher than the mob by 20 combat levels then that would be adequate for the AI to make the mob turn and flee.

[bondct]

I dont think the mob should ever run away unless there is a mob combat strategy attached to it... a fleeing mob is a dead mob... which is what we wanted anyway... so really let them all turn and run... especially the ones that use projectiles and beams ...easy pickings...

and tbh I dont like strats based on mob flee... for example the run and call for help or the run and spawn 3 more mobs... cuz to a warrior or a healer thats just gravy... but to everyone else its just a lost kill or a kill and lost loot on what should have been easy xp...

note when I say run away I mean the full impulse get outta dodge run in a straight line until you reset cuz you are tethered run... the short tactical retreat use a skill then turn and fire is ok

Edited August 19, 2010 by Avani

[Phorlaug[IS]]

I don't think the mob should ever run away unless there is a mob combat strategy attached to it... a fleeing mob is a dead mob... which is what we wanted anyway... so really let them all turn and run... especially the ones that use projectiles and beams ...easy pickings...

and tbh I don't like strats based on mob flee... for example the run and call for help or the run and spawn 3 more mobs... cuz to a warrior or a healer thats just gravy... but to everyone else its just a lost kill or a kill and lost loot on what should have been easy xp...

note when I say run away I mean the full impulse get outta dodge run in a straight line until you reset cuz you are tethered run... the short tactical retreat use a skill then turn and fire is ok

Tactical retreat I agree, thats what I consider Kiting as.

(Feel free to add that to the MOB A.I. DEV's )

For the sake of discussion.

Would you agree Avani that if you were taking that much damage that you would "Get the hell out of Dodge" and run for cover or the nearest Allie(s)?

An A.I. that acts more like human emotions would definitely add a little more uncertainty, spontaneity and surprises then the point shoot walk away and get some coffee. And I can't believe I'm saying this as a JD and Jenquai in general.

This would also encourage multi player interactions.

Certain MOBS should stay as they are But other MOBS IMO should have the Swarm A.I. like the Zenshai in Vishoa's Cove and the Jenquai Traditionalist in Kitara's Veil. The Biologicals should not have the Human A.I. of coarse. I don't know if "Human A.I." is the correct term.

I think it would a lot of fun and surprise to be following a running NPC right into an ambush or a few Jenquai NPC decloaking on you.. SURPRISE!

Not all MOBS should have this A.I. The new sectors would be ideal for this.

I am not suggesting makeing the NPC's too dam smart to make EnB no fun to play. Just a new and different challenge An A.I. like this is as close to PVP as we are going to get.

The one example of what I'm saying is the game Homeworld the A.I. where you can play against the computer is fun but lacks the MMO.

Sorry I got long winded there.

Phor....

Edited August 19, 2010 by Phorlaug

[bondct]

if I were taking that much damage I would just hit q and not stop till I was totally outta there and not return till i was 100% healed and bufffed... but from a game perspective if mobs warped out everytime they were about to die... that woulda kinda just sux... how would you ever get xp or level... and on the reverse if mobs always called up a group of allies everytime they were gettin beat on... then how do support classes level combat... they would be required to find warrior support...

now in a raid situation all bets are off and you have to form whatever group of classes is required to kill the mobs... but in a nonraid situation do we really want to make suppport classes depenendant on warriors just to pull off a few rounds?

[Terrell [BT]]

if I were taking that much damage I would just hit q and not stop till I was totally outta there and not return till i was 100% healed and bufffed... but from a game perspective if mobs warped out everytime they were about to die... that woulda kinda just sux... how would you ever get xp or level... and on the reverse if mobs always called up a group of allies everytime they were gettin beat on... then how do support classes level combat... they would be required to find warrior support...

now in a raid situation all bets are off and you have to form whatever group of classes is required to kill the mobs... but in a nonraid situation do we really want to make suppport classes depenendant on warriors just to pull off a few rounds?

Agreed, support classes have to level up combat as well, and since spillover has been reduced from 80 to 50 it's going to be a bit slower for us.

[JerrodSyn]

The biological AI for fleeing must be a bit off. I was trying to kill a CL15 mane for my Build Engine mission (CL8 Terran Scout). Kiting, as there is NO way I could take this creature on head-to-head. I would get it down to around 50%, and it would turn tail and run at a speed that even hitting Q to warp to it was not fast enough. I tracked it back down, it would have gained about half of the health it lost back, and be very hostile to me. Kite again, it would get down further, but would still flee. I even closed range a bit so it was able to fire and hit me every once in a while.

It took me around 20 minutes, and around 150 missiles, but I finally got it.

But a CL15 mob fleeing a CL8 newbie?

[C Del[IS]]

Mobs running away might increase the demand for PM engines, as it becomes more important to go faster than mobs at their top speeds.

[Terrell [BT]]

Mobs running away might increase the demand for PM engines, as it becomes more important to go faster than mobs at their top speeds.

Or PM devices that boost speed until you're big enough to do the mission to get a NOS.

[Phorlaug[IS]]

if I were taking that much damage I would just hit q and not stop till I was totally outta there and not return till i was 100% healed and bufffed... but from a game perspective if mobs warped out everytime they were about to die... that woulda kinda just sux... how would you ever get xp or level... and on the reverse if mobs always called up a group of allies everytime they were gettin beat on... then how do support classes level combat... they would be required to find warrior support...

now in a raid situation all bets are off and you have to form whatever group of classes is required to kill the mobs... but in a nonraid situation do we really want to make suppport classes depenendant on warriors just to pull off a few rounds?

Agreed. Maybe instead of every higher level sector having higher level Mobs (like we have now) we could get the A.I. changed on a few sectors pertaining mostly to the new sectors.

Mobs running away might increase the demand for PM engines, as it becomes more important to go faster than mobs at their top speeds.

Agree here too. Sh I'm still running low level engines by choice. No need for them and at lower levels the buffs

are just not really that desireable to justify the use of skill points.

The biological AI for fleeing must be a bit off. I was trying to kill a CL15 mane for my Build Engine mission (CL8 Terran Scout). Kiting, as there is NO way I could take this creature on head-to-head. I would get it down to around 50%, and it would turn tail and run at a speed that even hitting Q to warp to it was not fast enough.

Yep a wounded creature (biological)should limp away at half its normal speed not at 150 % of it.

Anyone play or have played Freelancer theres a weapon in the game that stops an NPC from warping or flying I just can't think of it right now. That would be nice to have to combat a running Machanical NPC for 4-5 seconds. Hell this weapon would fit in nicely with this Class and idea. With different ammo rounds.

Phorlaug..

Edited August 20, 2010 by Phorlaug

[C Del[IS]]

Also, this would make grav link nicer. (just thought of that while reading Phorlaug's post)

I think a bio mob should at least have a temporary "adrenaline rush". If you're about to die, you can pull off some rather extraordinary stuff. What if they got a burst of speed right as they turn to run, but then they slow down (i.e. exhaustion sets in)? That makes more sense to me than simply one or the other. The same thing could be applied to tech mobs under the reasoning that perhaps the mob is pushing its engines to the brink, and then they start to degrade. i really like things which make mobs less predictable and more dynamic like this; it makes combat seem less grindy.

[r8rsfans75]

I do like the idea of some mobs having a "human" AI, as they are about to die, or realize they are out-gunned, turning tail and run, but there shouldn't be very many. I also think this type of behavior should not exist at the lower levels. Its hard enough trying to level combat from 10 to 20 without having to chase mobs all over the sector.

[Mimir[IS]]

I’ve found mob AIs predictable and even though the direction seems random (turn left or turn right) is so easy to counter that I wish there to be a bit more maneuvers in the mix.

When a mob gets down to roughly 25% it starts a rapid turn either left or right to try to get behind you. This along with the graphic glitch (?) of blasting 160+ away is pretty easy to counter by hitting your follow when first engaging the mob.

A random zig zag, quick left right… left right, or up or down on the limited z axis may be more interesting and harder to counter.

All in all I think it sort of kind of mimics the last ditch save my tush moves of a real player. Oh and a mob warping out at the last second really is a bad bad idea.

[cpwings]

On the subject of Mobs running away, they shouldn't be able to run at a speed that greatly exceeds thier normal speed IMO. I actually enjoy the mobs that run a bit then turn to engage again. I think this behavior mimics the desparation humans feel when we realize we must turn to fight or die in a futile attempt to escape.

They should also be held to the same sector boundries that we are. Last night while hunting belters near Belter Colony, a belter was running away and died beyond the sector boundry and beyond my tractor range. This shouldn't happen. Either the boundries need to be redrawn or mob positioning redone.

[Phorlaug[IS]]

I’ve found mob AIs predictable and even though the direction seems random (turn left or turn right) is so easy to counter that I wish there to be a bit more maneuvers in the mix.

When a mob gets down to roughly 25% it starts a rapid turn either left or right to try to get behind you. This along with the graphic glitch (?)

Yea, I seen that happen to the Zenshai It looked to me as if their ship was going haywire from the damage which kind of gave a little realism to the fight.

You know I may be a little Bias on the NPC running. For a JD I just keep hitting the Summons, they ain't going anywhere. The energy usage does play a part in game play more now also.

For weeks it seems the auto follow wasn't working now it is, I don't know if it was just on my side or what ? But I'm glad its working now, and it does make a running NPC easier to follow:)

Phorlaug..

[Falstar [MOD]]

I've also seen mobs run away when they realize they'll lose, so I follow them. Their shields heal up some and they seem to 'recover' their courage and come back at me for more - and I finish them off. I think it makes it interesting, and could also see how it could be frustrating. The thought of carrying another device to boost speed had crossed my mind - they start running, I run them over

[prometheusnl]

The mob AI,

I've just started playing again and i thought to be different i'd make a TE. Well after a day or so of playing my new strat to quick level is not to Kite everything in sight but if i get caught in range by a single mob i just Plop in behind them and shoot them to bits. Seems they can't turn on a dime and if you have a mob that uses Beam/PL (most do) they can't fire at you if you are behind them. Alternating between circling above or below them makes them confused:)

Me Likes although i'm guessing the Mob ai still needs a bit of polishing.