Jump to content
Phorlaug

PvP, All the topic threads

Recommended Posts

I know so shoot me.

I have been thinking about Elective Player-Versus-Player again.

Instead of adding anything I have or others have Voiced about PvP I'm just going to Add links to this post and let

any one that was thinking about it view the past topics.

 

If PvP Were Added-How to make it fun for ALL-Phorlaug & StarbuckJD-1/26/2012

 

PvP Idea Summary (Taken from "How to make it Fun for all)-Ryle-7/10/2012

 

PvPvE-Tyran-9/14/2010

 

Player versus Player Graphical update-Lordrayken-6/5/2010

 

A Possible Roadmap for PvP-Seeker-4/1/2010

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
ryleyra    8

I've never weighed in on this topic because by the time I noticed it, usually the thread was so long and the debate so convoluted that I really had nothing to contribute. I really have nothing against PvP as long as it is not Open PvP, and most suggestions have been Elective (as the topic starter says) and I have no problem with that. I will likely avoid PvP, but that's me. 

 

I think it's important to understand the history, though. There are quite a few people who are new to E&B who don't know about the "Arena" on live, and there are probably just as many who were in live, but either never experienced the Arena, or may remember it colored by the passage of time. IMHO, the majority of E&B players never actually played the "Arena" the way the devs intended it. There most certainly are individual exceptions, but most people, I think, think the "Arena" was an arena, and PvP took place in it. 

 

To my recollection, and in my understanding of it, the E&B Arena was actually a sort of "PvPvE". The problem is that the classes in E&B aren't balanced for combat, and they CAN'T be balanced for combat. Combat was only part of the game, and you have trade and mining, too. Just taking mining as the issue, only three of the nine classes (2 of 3 on live) are capable of mining, so if they got Combat XP at the same rate as a Progen Warrior and could mine on top of that, they'd quickly outlevel the others. So when it comes to one on one, PvP combat, there's a heirarchy, with the warriors on top, the Progen as a whole performing a little better, and then finally the other traders and explorers. 

 

The devs of E&B developed an Arena that they hoped would engage all three classes. In short, there were "orbs" that needed to be carried to a goal. Miners could mine these orbs from "Caches" that floated around the arena, or they could be gathered from generators that spit them out at a constant rate. Obviously, traders with their bigger holds could be elected to carry the orbs to the goal, while the warriors would keep the other side from scoring. 

 

Now, maybe this implementation was just too abstract. If the miners had been assigned to mine resources to build a base or reinforce it, then maybe that would have been seen as more "fun". Or maybe the classes could have been redesigned in PvP to have a more balanced loadout. The point is, the devs never bothered to balance PvP because it was supposed to be balanced the way they implemented it. They just never expected the players to ignore their rules and just PvP according to their own rules. 

 

Honestly, I'm looking at the gate to 61 Cygni in Altair. and thinking there has to be some ideas about PvP floating around that. But think the lesson going forward is that if we are going to implement PvP, it's going to have to take those limitations into account. It can't be as easy as just setting a flag or opening up a zone and telling everybody, "go at it". There's going to have to be some serious thought and testing put into it, unless we want to end up with another underutilized Arena.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Terrell [BT]    155

IMO, the competition between groups type of thing, where they don't directly engage each other in combat, as discussed in the other threads, is probably the best way to go. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Daath    61

As long as PvP being introduced to the game does not overwhelm the channels with smack-talking adolescent member measuring I don't care if it is added or not... My biggest heartburn with PvP style games is the trash talking that goes with it.. the ego crap always turns me off...

 

Make it so anyone involved in a PvP situation cannot use a public channel for 72 hours after they change back into a non-pvp condition? 

  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ok, Terrell I'll toss an idea out there.

I don't know if its possible but.

 

Group Challenge or Raid style (15-20 Player) NPC Free-For-All, Kill as many Level 23 - 50 in a time base combat, AND

Mine as Many asteroids as Possible adding the asteroid Levels mined and the NPC Levels killed.

 

In a Very Large sector area, lets say 300k cube, In an area this size with the resources scattered, all of

the classes could be utilized. What tactics would you apply to get the most points and what would your

group/Raid group build be? There has got to be a Mining bonus !

And remember there's going to be NPC trying to Incapacitate your miners, The same as it happens in the current Game.

There could be multiple competitions going on at the same time, If the server can handle it.

In this PvP Kill stealing will be inevitable and part of the PvP challenge !!

Entry into the PvP sector could be through a group leader challenge slash command. = /ChalG Phorlaug OR /ChalRaid Phorlaug

The drops/resources will be no different from anything that drops in the game Now and usable outside of the sector.

 

I'm just going to round out the numbers, they could be much higher.

The Best totals wins.

 

10 x L23 NPC = 230

20 x L50 NPC = 1000

----------------------------

1230 Total Combat.

 

 

15 x L6 asteroids = 90

25 x L3 asteroids = 75

7   x L9 asteroids = 63

------------------------------

228 Mining

+ 500% Mining Bonus = 1368

------------------------------

1230

1368

--------

2598

 

As long as PvP being introduced to the game does not overwhelm the channels with smack-talking adolescent member measuring I don't care if it is added or not... My biggest heartburn with PvP style games is the trash talking that goes with it.. the ego crap always turns me off...

 

Make it so anyone involved in a PvP situation cannot use a public channel for 72 hours after they change back into a non-pvp condition? 

 

We got the Trash-smack-talking crap now. a.k.a. Raid rotations. :mad:  People will find something to bitch about or a way to cheat or manipulate, its human nature.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
rkgrau    19

As long as PvP being introduced to the game does not overwhelm the channels with smack-talking adolescent member measuring I don't care if it is added or not... My biggest heartburn with PvP style games is the trash talking that goes with it.. the ego crap always turns me off...

 

Make it so anyone involved in a PvP situation cannot use a public channel for 72 hours after they change back into a non-pvp condition? 

You are spot on!

The first "u mad bro?" i see on market might well break my heart! lol

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Terrell [BT]    155

I don't know if it's possible either, but if it is, it sounds like a nice idea.  It sounds like a competitive version of a mining raid,  it would work with the existing classes without need of gear or balance changes that wouldn't be applied game wide.  I'd want to see the non-competitive version of the mining raid introduced first, then the competitive version.  

 

For the competitive version to work the way I think it should work, the server needs to be able to recognize teams of 2-3 groups, and handle up to 6 or 7 groups without issues.  I don't know if that can be done.  I'd have the teams appear on opposite sides of the sector and put a gate that only the victorious team could use to face the final boss.

 

If those obstacles could be overcome and made to work then I'd have there be minor differences between non-competitive mining raids & competitive ones.  In the non-competitive one, facing the final boss would be no different from the mining raids I talked about in the past.  In the competitive one, the competition is for the right to face the final boss with your team.  Both sides would be able to keep whatever items mined or looted before the winning team was decided.  The team that wins gets a key to another sector, where they gate there, after they gate they have 2-5 minutes to get ready, then the boss and his minions spawn.    

 

The boss & his minions would be a little more generous in his drops, than the boss & his minions in the non-competitive version.   They would drop the same items overall, but the minions would drop 1 more useful item each, and the final boss would drop 2-4 more useful items as compared to.  In the lead up to determine who wins, the mobs would drop slightly more generous loot & the 'roids would have slightly more numerous ores.  Not a lot, just enough to notice the difference.  Again you'd have to complete multiple successful competitive mining raids, to get every possible drop offered.

 

I think it may work best if we add a system for these types of things.  Pick an IRL star that's not used in the game, Barnard's Star would be a probability, IRL it's a red dwarf star a little under 6 LY from Sol.   Some other non-storyline related star would work too, even if it's fictional.

 

There could be 4 sectors the sector you enter would have a starbase near the gate you entered through.  In the middle of the sector you'd have new mobs & drops along with mining comparable to Antares in difficulty & resources.  On the far end of the sector would be 3 gates.   The gate for the non-competitive version would be in the middle.  50K away on each side of the gate to the non-competitive raid would be the gates to enter the competitive version, one for each team.

 

The gates would need a key of some sort to access, the sector should be locked when in use, until the raid is successful or fails.  The competitive & non-competitive version could be run at the same time, if the server can handle it, but two of the same type would not.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Daath    61

We got the Trash-smack-talking crap now. a.k.a. Raid rotations. :mad:  People will find something to bitch about or a way to cheat or manipulate, its human nature.

I'm not talking about the normal stuff, "this person is doing xxx and I don't like it" whine.. or the "This person is KSing me" whine.. But the obviously gratuitous testosterone/adrenaline fueled sense of superiority rants that often accompany PvP players and their over zealous desire to degrade and humiliate one another as well as toot their own sense of superiority in pubic venues.  Most of the common complaints and such that we experience are simple "I hate lag" or "This person is a butt head" and they last 5 minutes.. ONE drunk PVP rant from a egotistical adolescent minded over self satisfied gamer and I'd be done with public channels.. F O R E V E R.... I have left games over that kind of crap (Including this one during live with all the KS'ing wars that happened in the first year of live) and I would leave it again in a heartbeat if I had to see that kind of crap.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Overtkill    56

This game wasn't really designed with that in mind beyond the Arena's, and I tend to agree on the trash talking issues that would follow. There is already more than enough drama to go around without something like this to stir the pot. Maybe in select systems, like maybe the Arena's and perhaps the more lawless sectors like BBW/Pirate Space. But globally its probably a bad idea as it will likely create more problems than its worth.

 

-Overt.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

NEVER Never never server wide !

There is a place for it, 4 sector galaxy will do nicely, big enough to get lost and not seen and small enough to

form a strategy.

You get the Non-PvP safety protocols in place and no one gets hurt.

 

We are smart enough to know "You enter you die" "You Shoot you Die"

I like the Idea of a No-mans land, as a Short cut for Non-Worm hole characters to Non Pvp areas already existing in game. (Antares, Cooper, Traders Fort etc etc)

Although it would be hazardous it would also be Dam Exciting !

 

Honestly there are so many people that won't Do PvP, so the risk is decreased, but going into a PvP

zone thinking your going to be fine. LMAO that isn't going to happen. 

You will Loose absolutely nothing by going into PvP battle, No XP, No ship Damage, No Cost of repair.

The only thing to work out is what Gain there would be ?

 

Because I am a big proponent of Limited Elective  PvP I have painted a BIG Target on My Ship. :)

Everyone can be beat, "There's always someone bigger" There is always going to be a group that's going to figure out how to beat them next time. I am Jenquai I expect to die in PvP but I will win some too when I learn from my mistakes. With the right combination of Classes and Races anyone can be beat !

It would be the fool to boast one or two Wins in PvP.

 

I must concede there is always a child somewhere that's going to boast. "WOOT ! We Did Controller in 15 minutes!" BFD ! What did you get out of it ?

Everyone won't get, didn't get what they want but they did have fun trying and succeeding, no matter how long it took them.

 

I know we won't have PvP in any shape or form. I restarted this topic because there are people that ask about it. I just gave them a place to read up on what we think how could we make it fun for all or even for the few.

 

Lets just say for the sake of discussion, Everyone at One Time One Day battling in PvP there would be mass confusion with no clear victory no prize, just heart pounding excitement. Is that so bad ?

The DEVs gave that to us once, when we fought them in their Vrix Ships around Joves many years ago.

 

It was fun and chaotic because there was no player organization and the DEVs had a shield strength of a 9 Billion...It was a Sector stress test a few stress test ago. ST1 ?

Hell I'd have fun fighting myself just to see how my tactics and Skills work against my ship if it helps the DEVs fine tune the skill usage parameters and code against an NPC. (Reactor levels and EMP effects on them).

We can learn alot from our PvP experiences, all of us. Like being humble. 

 

You are right some will boast some will whine but all that try will have excitement and anticipation.

I am sorry I can only see the fun in PvP when I make the choice to engage in it, and right now that is all I am trying to convey.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Littlej    6

I don't like the idea of making area's basically non-accessible to those who do not want to participate.

  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

+1 to you Littlej

 

There are literally 100s of ideas suggested on how to make it happen. That was just the consequences of engaging in PvP.

A few examples are:

A slash command /ingagepvp

A Item in your Hold would designate you PvP.

Firing on a Player ingaged in a PvP zone would lable you PvP.

Healing or Buffing a Player ingaged in PvP would designate you PvP.

Mission to offer Race Live fire maneuvers incase of Alien invasions.

Timed passage. (30 minutes Till PvP engagement ships computer announcement)

 

And a combination of a few.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The arena is  a hard codeing issue, So chances of seeing it are very low right now.

Just wanted to let you know so you dont get your hopes up.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Kyp [LDEV]    240

Ok, so I've finally deigned to respond to one of these. I might have in the past but I don't think so... so here goes:

 

I've never weighed in on this topic because by the time I noticed it, usually the thread was so long and the debate so convoluted that I really had nothing to contribute. I really have nothing against PvP as long as it is not Open PvP, and most suggestions have been Elective (as the topic starter says) and I have no problem with that. I will likely avoid PvP, but that's me. 

 

I think it's important to understand the history, though. There are quite a few people who are new to E&B who don't know about the "Arena" on live, and there are probably just as many who were in live, but either never experienced the Arena, or may remember it colored by the passage of time. IMHO, the majority of E&B players never actually played the "Arena" the way the devs intended it. There most certainly are individual exceptions, but most people, I think, think the "Arena" was an arena, and PvP took place in it. 

 

To my recollection, and in my understanding of it, the E&B Arena was actually a sort of "PvPvE". The problem is that the classes in E&B aren't balanced for combat, and they CAN'T be balanced for combat. Combat was only part of the game, and you have trade and mining, too. Just taking mining as the issue, only three of the nine classes (2 of 3 on live) are capable of mining, so if they got Combat XP at the same rate as a Progen Warrior and could mine on top of that, they'd quickly outlevel the others. So when it comes to one on one, PvP combat, there's a heirarchy, with the warriors on top, the Progen as a whole performing a little better, and then finally the other traders and explorers. 

 

The devs of E&B developed an Arena that they hoped would engage all three classes. In short, there were "orbs" that needed to be carried to a goal. Miners could mine these orbs from "Caches" that floated around the arena, or they could be gathered from generators that spit them out at a constant rate. Obviously, traders with their bigger holds could be elected to carry the orbs to the goal, while the warriors would keep the other side from scoring. 

 

Now, maybe this implementation was just too abstract. If the miners had been assigned to mine resources to build a base or reinforce it, then maybe that would have been seen as more "fun". Or maybe the classes could have been redesigned in PvP to have a more balanced loadout. The point is, the devs never bothered to balance PvP because it was supposed to be balanced the way they implemented it. They just never expected the players to ignore their rules and just PvP according to their own rules. 

 

Honestly, I'm looking at the gate to 61 Cygni in Altair. and thinking there has to be some ideas about PvP floating around that. But think the lesson going forward is that if we are going to implement PvP, it's going to have to take those limitations into account. It can't be as easy as just setting a flag or opening up a zone and telling everybody, "go at it". There's going to have to be some serious thought and testing put into it, unless we want to end up with another underutilized Arena.

 

The Arena was a 'combat game' somewhat reminiscent of the Capture The Flag games you see on shooters, except modified so that only the explorer classes could pull the flag w/ prospecting and the warriors/tanks/support had to defend them so they could get that flag home more than the other guy. On Andromeda my guild played it rather regularly against a few others (and it rarely devolved to straight PVP, and when it did.. well I was the biggest fish in the pond for the groups we played with. ;), although I wouldn't deny for a second that I went in to that arena with some people who kicked my ass 1 on 1, even one who directly admitted to cheating and showed me a way as a Progen Warrior he could equip Sundari equipment (or Progen restricted anyway )

 

Chances are that if we implement a PVP system, it is likely to be a combination of Sword, Shield, and Spear ("The Arena") and a lawless type area of space.

 

Now, what bothers me is this statement, it is rather absolute: "The problem is that the classes in E&B aren't balanced for combat, and they CAN'T be balanced for combat."

This is not true, I could do it given what I have to work with, but the thing is, it would change the classes fundamentally. I've studied what we have today versus roughly what the 9 classes should have been. Let's just say some skills that are relied upon would move around. :)

 

Could be done, probably won't be. At least not in the nigh future.

 

Ok, Terrell I'll toss an idea out there.

I don't know if its possible but.

 

Group Challenge or Raid style (15-20 Player) NPC Free-For-All, Kill as many Level 23 - 50 in a time base combat, AND

Mine as Many asteroids as Possible adding the asteroid Levels mined and the NPC Levels killed.

 

In a Very Large sector area, lets say 300k cube, In an area this size with the resources scattered, all of

the classes could be utilized. What tactics would you apply to get the most points and what would your

group/Raid group build be? There has got to be a Mining bonus !

And remember there's going to be NPC trying to Incapacitate your miners, The same as it happens in the current Game.

There could be multiple competitions going on at the same time, If the server can handle it.

In this PvP Kill stealing will be inevitable and part of the PvP challenge !!

Entry into the PvP sector could be through a group leader challenge slash command. = /ChalG Phorlaug OR /ChalRaid Phorlaug

The drops/resources will be no different from anything that drops in the game Now and usable outside of the sector.

 

I'm just going to round out the numbers, they could be much higher.

The Best totals wins.

 

10 x L23 NPC = 230

20 x L50 NPC = 1000

----------------------------

1230 Total Combat.

 

 

15 x L6 asteroids = 90

25 x L3 asteroids = 75

7   x L9 asteroids = 63

------------------------------

228 Mining

+ 500% Mining Bonus = 1368

------------------------------

1230

1368

--------

2598

 

 

We got the Trash-smack-talking crap now. a.k.a. Raid rotations. :mad:  People will find something to bitch about or a way to cheat or manipulate, its human nature.

 

I take it you use the dark forum theme.... ow my eyes..  :blink:

 

I don't know if it's possible either, but if it is, it sounds like a nice idea.  It sounds like a competitive version of a mining raid,  it would work with the existing classes without need of gear or balance changes that wouldn't be applied game wide.  I'd want to see the non-competitive version of the mining raid introduced first, then the competitive version.  

 

For the competitive version to work the way I think it should work, the server needs to be able to recognize teams of 2-3 groups, and handle up to 6 or 7 groups without issues.  I don't know if that can be done.  I'd have the teams appear on opposite sides of the sector and put a gate that only the victorious team could use to face the final boss.

 

If those obstacles could be overcome and made to work then I'd have there be minor differences between non-competitive mining raids & competitive ones.  In the non-competitive one, facing the final boss would be no different from the mining raids I talked about in the past.  In the competitive one, the competition is for the right to face the final boss with your team.  Both sides would be able to keep whatever items mined or looted before the winning team was decided.  The team that wins gets a key to another sector, where they gate there, after they gate they have 2-5 minutes to get ready, then the boss and his minions spawn.    

 

The boss & his minions would be a little more generous in his drops, than the boss & his minions in the non-competitive version.   They would drop the same items overall, but the minions would drop 1 more useful item each, and the final boss would drop 2-4 more useful items as compared to.  In the lead up to determine who wins, the mobs would drop slightly more generous loot & the 'roids would have slightly more numerous ores.  Not a lot, just enough to notice the difference.  Again you'd have to complete multiple successful competitive mining raids, to get every possible drop offered.

 

I think it may work best if we add a system for these types of things.  Pick an IRL star that's not used in the game, Barnard's Star would be a probability, IRL it's a red dwarf star a little under 6 LY from Sol.   Some other non-storyline related star would work too, even if it's fictional.

 

There could be 4 sectors the sector you enter would have a starbase near the gate you entered through.  In the middle of the sector you'd have new mobs & drops along with mining comparable to Antares in difficulty & resources.  On the far end of the sector would be 3 gates.   The gate for the non-competitive version would be in the middle.  50K away on each side of the gate to the non-competitive raid would be the gates to enter the competitive version, one for each team.

 

The gates would need a key of some sort to access, the sector should be locked when in use, until the raid is successful or fails.  The competitive & non-competitive version could be run at the same time, if the server can handle it, but two of the same type would not.

 

We had one of those Tienbau was working on before he disappeared. However, it had some problems afterward and there are no resources to invest in redesign at this time.

 

NEVER Never never server wide !

There is a place for it, 4 sector galaxy will do nicely, big enough to get lost and not seen and small enough to

form a strategy.

You get the Non-PvP safety protocols in place and no one gets hurt.

 

We are smart enough to know "You enter you die" "You Shoot you Die"

I like the Idea of a No-mans land, as a Short cut for Non-Worm hole characters to Non Pvp areas already existing in game. (Antares, Cooper, Traders Fort etc etc)

Although it would be hazardous it would also be Dam Exciting !

 

Honestly there are so many people that won't Do PvP, so the risk is decreased, but going into a PvP

zone thinking your going to be fine. LMAO that isn't going to happen. 

You will Loose absolutely nothing by going into PvP battle, No XP, No ship Damage, No Cost of repair.

The only thing to work out is what Gain there would be ?

 

Because I am a big proponent of Limited Elective  PvP I have painted a BIG Target on My Ship. :)

Everyone can be beat, "There's always someone bigger" There is always going to be a group that's going to figure out how to beat them next time. I am Jenquai I expect to die in PvP but I will win some too when I learn from my mistakes. With the right combination of Classes and Races anyone can be beat !

It would be the fool to boast one or two Wins in PvP.

 

I must concede there is always a child somewhere that's going to boast. "WOOT ! We Did Controller in 15 minutes!" BFD ! What did you get out of it ?

Everyone won't get, didn't get what they want but they did have fun trying and succeeding, no matter how long it took them.

 

I know we won't have PvP in any shape or form. I restarted this topic because there are people that ask about it. I just gave them a place to read up on what we think how could we make it fun for all or even for the few.

 

Lets just say for the sake of discussion, Everyone at One Time One Day battling in PvP there would be mass confusion with no clear victory no prize, just heart pounding excitement. Is that so bad ?

The DEVs gave that to us once, when we fought them in their Vrix Ships around Joves many years ago.

 

It was fun and chaotic because there was no player organization and the DEVs had a shield strength of a 9 Billion...It was a Sector stress test a few stress test ago. ST1 ?

Hell I'd have fun fighting myself just to see how my tactics and Skills work against my ship if it helps the DEVs fine tune the skill usage parameters and code against an NPC. (Reactor levels and EMP effects on them).

We can learn alot from our PvP experiences, all of us. Like being humble. 

 

You are right some will boast some will whine but all that try will have excitement and anticipation.

I am sorry I can only see the fun in PvP when I make the choice to engage in it, and right now that is all I am trying to convey.

 

First, if there is to be no risk, there can be no reward. (to the point of no damage to the ship, what gain you should get). So what would you propose as a risk?

 

I don't like the idea of making area's basically non-accessible to those who do not want to participate.

 

Those areas wouldn't be 'non-accessible' if you're choosing not to go into them because you don't want to risk something. That's fundamentally not the same thing. Assuming this was in response to the idea of a lawless sector or the like. Risk versus reward will always be a powerful force in games. The thing is, those types of areas might be loaded with high value/high level ores that you could prospect.

 

So yes, a single explorer might shake in his boots, or be anti-risk but a smart explorer would gather a powerful group of guildies and go stockpile said ores for profit or pleasure but we couldn't give you access to something like that without you facing a risk, that's the way it must be.

 

---

 

All this said, I don't hate PvP, I just consider it a low priority with all else that is being worked and there's no way I'd implement something so heavily dependent on balance before I even knew if the classes were 100% permanent as they are. ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Mimir[IS]    104

Hey Kyp,

 

This was a very well written and informative post but.... It seems that there is a little discrepancy between your post and one from one of the content devs... Was the cat let out of the bag too soon? Are we going to see some form of PvP in Feb.?

 

Or what I think most likely happened is that someone left the reservation, to announce futures. It might be a good idea to clarify that the specifications for the classes is what will be released in Feb. and NOT a full on redesign of the races. (as stated in your post) " it would change the classes fundamentally. I've studied what we have today versus roughly what the 9 classes should have been. Let's just say some skills that are relied upon would move around. "

 

Either way, the PvP group will be a rejoicing, the non PvP group will be a whining, and some may wait for a Feb. release date only to be disappointed that release dates were not met and hold their whining for then.  

 

As always imho it is best to keep your cards close to the vest on futures in re. releases and dates of those.  To release these changes will be a logistic nightmare WITHOUT doing yet another (that which cannot be spoken) to adjust the classes for PvP. Something to consider...Yes?  

 

I know I have been very vocal about not wanting see PvP for this game, but if it has to be let's make darn sure it is what most want and we (read you) get it right the first time.   

 

Just saying... 

Content Developer Post below...

___________________________________________________________________

Ulyydian

 

Posted 20 December 2013 - 01:59 PM

I can honestly in the next coming months there are going to be some major changes and content updates.

Especially with the race / classes.

 

With the implementation of class specialization that will give people alot more to experiment with.

There will be no more single standard enforcers, warriors, explorers, etc..

I know part of the problem is that there was generally only "one way" to play and one build to play with.

 

I know I am excited that I'll be able to play the terran warrior 3 different ways, each with their own strategy.

This will make a big difference in PVP as well.

 

It may be too soon for the Jan update but I am hoping for Feb release of all the warrior specs.

See here for more info:

 

https://forum.enb-emu...pons-equipment/

 
___________________________________________________________________
 
 
 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Kyp [LDEV]    240

 

Hey Kyp,

 

This was a very well written and informative post but.... It seems that there is a little discrepancy between your post and one from one of the content devs... Was the cat let out of the bag too soon? Are we going to see some form of PvP in Feb.?

 

Or what I think most likely happened is that someone left the reservation, to announce futures. It might be a good idea to clarify that the specifications for the classes is what will be released in Feb. and NOT a full on redesign of the races. (as stated in your post) " it would change the classes fundamentally. I've studied what we have today versus roughly what the 9 classes should have been. Let's just say some skills that are relied upon would move around. "

 

Either way, the PvP group will be a rejoicing, the non PvP group will be a whining, and some may wait for a Feb. release date only to be disappointed that release dates were not met and hold their whining for then.  

 

As always imho it is best to keep your cards close to the vest on futures in re. releases and dates of those.  To release these changes will be a logistic nightmare WITHOUT doing yet another (that which cannot be spoken) to adjust the classes for PvP. Something to consider...Yes?  

 

I know I have been very vocal about not wanting see PvP for this game, but if it has to be let's make darn sure it is what most want and we (read you) get it right the first time.   

 

Just saying... 

Content Developer Post below...

___________________________________________________________________

Ulyydian

 

Posted 20 December 2013 - 01:59 PM

I can honestly in the next coming months there are going to be some major changes and content updates.

Especially with the race / classes.

 

With the implementation of class specialization that will give people alot more to experiment with.

There will be no more single standard enforcers, warriors, explorers, etc..

I know part of the problem is that there was generally only "one way" to play and one build to play with.

 

I know I am excited that I'll be able to play the terran warrior 3 different ways, each with their own strategy.

This will make a big difference in PVP as well.

 

It may be too soon for the Jan update but I am hoping for Feb release of all the warrior specs.

See here for more info:

 

https://forum.enb-emu...pons-equipment/

 
__________________________________________________________

 

 

I think maybe reading just a little to far into Ulyydian's post. I have discussed these thoughts with the team, but they aren't the kind of changes i'd throw in on the average monthly patch. There would be a lot to test to see how they held up, and chances are I'd probably select some beta testers to try raids with them before they ever went to the live server.

 

I've said before in these forums that if there's a discrepancy between one a content developer posts and what someone from the 'Lead Dev' group posts, you should trust the latter. :)

 

To answer your questions, it is highly unlikely there will be PvP by February, although Ulyydian is working on (without letting the cat out of the bag) something for races/classes to improve them.

 

For your third bit:

You can please all of the people some of the time, or some of the people all the time but never all of the people all of the time. I'll be honest, I don't try, I just want to make a fun game to play and get it to a state where I feel like its 'mostly done' other than story and content patches. We aren't there yet.

 

I promised there wouldn't be one of those things again, since I said it I have to live by it.. but I won't lie, some developers have asked to. :)

 

PvP must be well developed-- it either has to be part of a game design from the beginning, you have to be very careful, or it has to have a totally separate damage ruleset so you don't screw with the rest of the game community.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

First, if there is to be no risk, there can be no reward. (to the point of no damage to the ship, what gain you should get). So what would you propose as a risk?

 

Was doing my best to sugar coat it.

Going back through pages and pages, what I saw was the Non-PvP players just want to go about their own business  they don't want to be shot and they want to do it in the New PvP sector for the New content.

 

The PvP players want a humans behind the ships controls making each encounter different, unique and unpredictable. Something currently the NPCs can't do.

 

The Reward has been:

1) Tokens (Medal Of Valor) for turn-in for rare raid Drops (equivelent to items already in game but they can be lost or taken away in PvP with a PvP suffix attached ie; Plagues Bitepvp) and Rare Rip only Ores and Components (Carapaces).

2) New Vendor Unique high cost, high return Trade items (300,000 In credits, 30,000 trade and/or explore XP and 1 Medal of Valor) to be sold to other Trade Vendors outside PvP.

3) Unique Trade Item Drop from Players ingaged in PvP having a Unique Trade item in their hold.

4) Typical drops from NPC and Star Base adds.

5) Medals Of Valor can be used to collect a Specific Named set of PvP Gear all of which can be looted FROM you while in PvP mode.

 

The Risk has been anywhere from:

1) Loss of Credits (1000 per level per incapacitation to the victor) L150 dies 150,000 credit go to the winner player and/or group. Because of the amount of credits in game the Credit loss seems reasonable. Whats a Carapaces worth to you?

2) Loss of previously acquired Medals Of Valor (1 Medal Of Valor per incapacitation).

3) 2% Possibility Drop Loss of PvP Items. (Pvp items can be equipped and used in the current PvE EMU they'll be just a little harder to keep.) Not to include INSTALLED Reactors, Shields or Engines.

4) Damage and Quality loss to PvP items (only?).

5) Damage to Trade items from vendors or from combat (PvP, PvE or Worm holes, as we have now).

6) Drop of Unique Trade Item to Victor from PvP.

 

To eliminate or control exploits in and from PvP.

PvP items are Non-trade and can only be gotten in battle or with Medal Of Valor.

Medal Of Valor are Non-trade

Medals Of Valor can only be gotten from Epic Star Base battles and from other players thru PvP that have acquired them from previous Star Base Battles or Trade runs.

We don't want multiboxers killing their own Characters and getting Medals or Valor.

 

Minimum 4 New Sectors,3 new Epic Star Bases, Progen, Jenquai, Terran and 1 Messier Star base for Trade.  Star gates to Antares, Cooper and Nifleheim Cloud, you want a short cut for your trade runs or Jobs here you go, it could cost you.

The trade off of the potential loss of the Trade items or Jobs is worth the excitement of Travel through the PvP area.

 

Epic Star Base battles never end. Once the Star Bases Shields (6-9 Million?) get to 10% from 75% the Group with the most DPS gets the Medals Of Valor kill. (1 each depending on the size of the Star base could be as many as 3 tokens?). Roll or bid on them.

When the bases shields go up from 10% to 75% the group or player with the most heals gets the Medal Of Valor drops. Roll or bid on them.

All the while the Base and the adds are trying to stop you and your trying to stop the other group(s) from achieving the same goal !

 

Gravity wells through out with random NPC patrols. (One player carries the trade goods thats Non-PvP the other player that is PvP run as protection escort. Or RUN with your trade goods and/or let your Warrior or group keep them at bay.

If you fire on ANY NPC in the PvP area or heal or Buff any Player engaged in PvP YOU BECOME PvP.

 

Mining class, mine to your hearts desire until an NPC patrol chases you out and you move to the next spot or you fire on them and become PvP or your Group runs combat while you mine.

Mining (Weaker) Classes can still get Medals of Valor and XP by running trade to and from the PvP star bases.

Beware the Gravity Well !

 

Anyone remember the Red Dragon in the EA original game that would wait for you to come by and demand

credits before he would let you pass or you refused and had to fight him. We could put something like that in place of a Gravity Well.

 

Anyone can travel through the PvP area and not be PvP.

 

When you start thinking about this, what skills would you want to change or put more points in? What will help you evade predators and get through the Gravity wells? What Item would you put in and take out. (See Cloak)

Everyone gets to play in PvP with a high probability of no PvP and surviving and excitement of PvP.

Here's a thought,This also gives the Smaller guilds and solo players the chance to get some Uber stuff, but there is a high price for it.

 

Sorry I got long winded there.

I propose all of the above.

 

Oh If you need someone willing to shoot or get shot at for testing purposes, you can clone my JD (Phorlaug) to a test server,

I'll take one for the team. :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Daath    61

One stipulation?  I don't mind PvP as long as all of the ego-fuled rants and taunting cannot be heard... I propose that all PvP players be unable to send on General, New Player and Market channels while they are PvP.  Period... If I have to endure testosterone laced rants in common channels I'll quit faster than you can say "Oops". 

 

I don't mind PvP... I detest the egos that accompany it... which is why I do not play PvP games...

  • Upvote 5
  • Downvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

One stipulation?  I don't mind PvP as long as all of the ego-fuled rants and taunting cannot be heard... I propose that all PvP players be unable to send on General, New Player and Market channels while they are PvP.  Period... If I have to endure testosterone laced rants in common channels I'll quit faster than you can say "Oops". 

 

I don't mind PvP... I detest the egos that accompany it... which is why I do not play PvP games...

 

Yea I know what your talking about, My Ignore list is pretty large. It reads like a whos who of "Can I have That that that" "They Need to change That" "In Live I Did This" "They Should Nerf That" not to mention endless rants about Uranus.

Trust me I'd be one of the first to put the Egotesticals (Not a Mis-spell) on Ignore.

 

Just a suggestion, If you put them on Ignore you'll never ever hear them again.

A slash command for /pvpon could work too.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Kyp [LDEV]    240

Was doing my best to sugar coat it.

Going back through pages and pages, what I saw was the Non-PvP players just want to go about their own business  they don't want to be shot and they want to do it in the New PvP sector for the New content.

 

The PvP players want a humans behind the ships controls making each encounter different, unique and unpredictable. Something currently the NPCs can't do.

 

The Reward has been:

1) Tokens (Medal Of Valor) for turn-in for rare raid Drops (equivelent to items already in game but they can be lost or taken away in PvP with a PvP suffix attached ie; Plagues Bitepvp) and Rare Rip only Ores and Components (Carapaces).

2) New Vendor Unique high cost, high return Trade items (300,000 In credits, 30,000 trade and/or explore XP and 1 Medal of Valor) to be sold to other Trade Vendors outside PvP.

3) Unique Trade Item Drop from Players ingaged in PvP having a Unique Trade item in their hold.

4) Typical drops from NPC and Star Base adds.

5) Medals Of Valor can be used to collect a Specific Named set of PvP Gear all of which can be looted FROM you while in PvP mode.

 

The Risk has been anywhere from:

1) Loss of Credits (1000 per level per incapacitation to the victor) L150 dies 150,000 credit go to the winner player and/or group. Because of the amount of credits in game the Credit loss seems reasonable. Whats a Carapaces worth to you?

2) Loss of previously acquired Medals Of Valor (1 Medal Of Valor per incapacitation).

3) 2% Possibility Drop Loss of PvP Items. (Pvp items can be equipped and used in the current PvE EMU they'll be just a little harder to keep.) Not to include INSTALLED Reactors, Shields or Engines.

4) Damage and Quality loss to PvP items (only?).

5) Damage to Trade items from vendors or from combat (PvP, PvE or Worm holes, as we have now).

6) Drop of Unique Trade Item to Victor from PvP.

 

To eliminate or control exploits in and from PvP.

PvP items are Non-trade and can only be gotten in battle or with Medal Of Valor.

Medal Of Valor are Non-trade

Medals Of Valor can only be gotten from Epic Star Base battles and from other players thru PvP that have acquired them from previous Star Base Battles or Trade runs.

We don't want multiboxers killing their own Characters and getting Medals or Valor.

 

Minimum 4 New Sectors,3 new Epic Star Bases, Progen, Jenquai, Terran and 1 Messier Star base for Trade.  Star gates to Antares, Cooper and Nifleheim Cloud, you want a short cut for your trade runs or Jobs here you go, it could cost you.

The trade off of the potential loss of the Trade items or Jobs is worth the excitement of Travel through the PvP area.

 

Epic Star Base battles never end. Once the Star Bases Shields (6-9 Million?) get to 10% from 75% the Group with the most DPS gets the Medals Of Valor kill. (1 each depending on the size of the Star base could be as many as 3 tokens?). Roll or bid on them.

When the bases shields go up from 10% to 75% the group or player with the most heals gets the Medal Of Valor drops. Roll or bid on them.

All the while the Base and the adds are trying to stop you and your trying to stop the other group(s) from achieving the same goal !

 

Gravity wells through out with random NPC patrols. (One player carries the trade goods thats Non-PvP the other player that is PvP run as protection escort. Or RUN with your trade goods and/or let your Warrior or group keep them at bay.

If you fire on ANY NPC in the PvP area or heal or Buff any Player engaged in PvP YOU BECOME PvP.

 

Mining class, mine to your hearts desire until an NPC patrol chases you out and you move to the next spot or you fire on them and become PvP or your Group runs combat while you mine.

Mining (Weaker) Classes can still get Medals of Valor and XP by running trade to and from the PvP star bases.

Beware the Gravity Well !

 

Anyone remember the Red Dragon in the EA original game that would wait for you to come by and demand

credits before he would let you pass or you refused and had to fight him. We could put something like that in place of a Gravity Well.

 

Anyone can travel through the PvP area and not be PvP.

 

When you start thinking about this, what skills would you want to change or put more points in? What will help you evade predators and get through the Gravity wells?

Everyone gets to play in PvP with a high probability of no PvP and surviving and excitement of PvP.

Here's a thought,This also gives the Smaller guilds and solo players the chance to get some Uber stuff, but there is a high price for it.

 

Sorry I got long winded there.

I propose all of the above.

 

Oh If you need someone willing to shoot or get shot at for testing purposes, you can clone my JD (Phorlaug) to a test server,

I'll take one for the team. :)

 

I have a counter proposal, you've been trying to get us to pay attention to PvP, take this and design your best idea for a system from all of these elements.Most of this could be accomplished but it will definitely be later on as we complete some other content first.

 

One stipulation?  I don't mind PvP as long as all of the ego-fuled rants and taunting cannot be heard... I propose that all PvP players be unable to send on General, New Player and Market channels while they are PvP.  Period... If I have to endure testosterone laced rants in common channels I'll quit faster than you can say "Oops". 

 

I don't mind PvP... I detest the egos that accompany it... which is why I do not play PvP games...

 

We could possibly force all chat when they're engaged to go to one place, but we'll have to test that. The easiest solution would be for us to forbid that in other channels and GMs would have to react.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Daath    61

We could possibly force all chat when they're engaged to go to one place, but we'll have to test that. The easiest solution would be for us to forbid that in other channels and GMs would have to react.

 

The GMs are on infrequently enough that their intervention is not a solution... We have two GMs that are ever online and there is no why it is 24 hours a day..

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I see your counter proposal Kyp and I am working on it and taking the ideas from previous posts.

 

 Daath, Kyp the slash command /pvpon could turn off all other chat channels and at the same time make a player

eligible for PvP, and they won't actually be PvP until they enter combat, buff or heal a PvP. 

Redundant safety protocols ?

If they enter into PvP all normal chat functions will automaticly change to /pvpon.

 

How will / should PvP be toggled off. When I answer Kyp Proposal I'll make the suggestion.

I'm at work and this dam Windows 7 PC or my forum preference won't let me copy or paste from

anywhere (Forum or Net).

 

Make no mistake I need, WE need the suggestions from the Non-Pvp Players on how to make it fun and still

maintain the current PvE player environment while adding content for the Same Non-PvP people within the

PvP area, WITHOUT adding another server.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×