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Eliminating the Jenquai Explorer?


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You guys need to keep in mind; We had an XP boost in place since the database failure back in October. Since ST4 started, the XP boost was removed by David and the original XP curve is now back in place. So YES, your XP will now be lower, for everybody.

- Marco

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i think everyone is well aware the xp boost isn't in however most of the people here played in live and remember vaguely what their xp was like there, i personally rocked my explore and trade levels mining on my JE in live, there is no way to maintain sanity trying to do that here, and as everyone has pointed out it is the same for the other mining classes except that they have strengths in leveling another xp field so on the whole have it alot better than a JE atm. the one thing i heard you all ask for this time arround was for us to spotlight the rough spots in the level grinding, well let me crank up the beam a bit more, we found one here...

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The devs wanted to know where the rough spots are? Well, JE mining is one of them.

When I find fields I can mine there are mobs that are too high level patrolling them. Level 30 manes patrolling tech level 2 fields is a bit much. I can't even grind out lower level fields without getting blasted to bits. Getting to EL 25 (currently EL17) looks daunting right now to say the least.

I played Westwood Beta through Live as a JE and there was never this big a problem gaining exploring experience. Mining was still a chore but it was feasible. In Live we had job terminals and that played to one of the few strengths of a JE which was WH. JE is a challenging class to play but the current setup in ST4 needs some tweaking for a JE to gain explore levels.

My suggestions - Tone down the mobs patrolling the fields. Increase the spawn of asteroids and gas fields (both re-spawn rate and number of fields). Better device bufs for JE prospecting (improved range, speed, energy consumption).

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well you can get to EL 25 by just going exploring navs solo, i have done that in this ST, but you actually have to go nearly everywhere and get all those hidden navs, and make sure to hit plannets again every time you relog, etc. it isn't fast, safe, or easy but you can get 25 just from exploring navs. mining i know since they started fiddling with clear bonuses has been horrible base xp so effectively killed the mining group and well with the way combat grouping goes it rarely makes sense to have a combat group for leveling purposes either unless you are within 2 levels of eachother since the xp is based solely on the highest CL persons xp.

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if roid respawn rate and mining exp were the major problems, wouldn't TS and PS have the exact same problem? Wouldn't they feel pretty useless too?

No, because PP is a halfway capable combat pilot and TS is a halfway capable Trader, JE is neither. Thus JE has nothing to fall back on like the other two Explorer classes. There is no WH business now like there was in Live, and Build Reactor is now more profitable with JT.

JE is the weakest combatant in the game, always has been... and now with a push by this Dev Team at present to upgrade Mobs's AI and make combat more challenging, JE's even now are feeling the stress.

For most JE Players that are Miners first and foremost (and avoid combat simply because they don't enjoy it like a warrior Player would), CL 30 Mobs guarding lvl 1 and 2 Roid fields/belts is simply just not worth it. I played a JE mainly in Live and I remember how it was then.... Now that I tried JE I am retiring any thought of leveling one now in EnB Emu. JE Miners are usually NOT Combat Pilots... It's a Mindset thing, not a character skill set thing. I can't explain it any better than that. The other Two classes attract a different kind of Player than a JE does. Some of it is the skill set and some of it is the Racial Philosophy that makes JE special and unique.

If I wanted to be a "guardian" I would play a JDefender, if I wanted to be a Jenquai Builder, I would run a JSeeker (my main in ST4 is a JS due to that class now having Build Reactor skill and better combat survivability as a whole). I run a JE to be an explorer and a Miner... the Explorer part is good, now we need to make the Miner part more survivable. Not only do I support the addition of more Plasma Beams available ingame (manufactured instead of loot drop), but I would also like to suggest creating a whole new class of Beam Weapon that does Chemical damage to offset the energy resistance of some Mobs that guard asteroid belts (Some Radio waves can create a chemical damage like wound depending on frequency, harness this as a Beam Weapon). Make them usable by all, Progen restricted, or Jenquai Only, your pick, but I would support Jenquai only with the idea that it was Jenquai Scientists developing a new technology and they wish to keep it within their own Race for now.

You Devs are welcome to do what you want with Mobs and their difficulty, just be advised that some of us from Live are attracted to EnB because it is NOT a mandatory combat centric game, and your recent and intended future changes are making it one. Too much combat in a space MMO is why I don't play any other space MMO, especially when it comes to being a Miner that enjoys the simple peace and quiet of a nice Roid Belt and the soothing sound of my Mining laser. If this experience is diminished or drowned out by the sound of my Hull exploding from a Belt Guardian 5 times my CL while I am mining Copper Ore... Well it will be time to retire as a Jenquai Miner permanently. There are many other classes to play in EnB Emulator that will be far more Player friendly with the current and future changes than a JE is and will be.

No, I don't mean to sound rude or obnoxious with how I wrote this post, for me "these are just the facts" about the situation. I wanted to be honest with you and the rest of the Dev Team.

*edited for content and additional suggestions*

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One Down.

Two To Go.

The Prgen Btle Plan cntns ...

But No Plsma Cuz Yer Can 'ave proj or der missl loik ders ardly any enrgy fer der Prgn ter use 'part from der unque mob drop only enrgy proj t' silvr 'ammer yous know wotta I mean? Evry race 'as a prblm n' mine is da wytch Vinda whoes rstct moi ter five lttrs only in der wordz as youll see in t' game, n unfry got unble to use reply cus ppls noime too long!

[Work 'ptr]

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One Down.

Two To Go.

The Prgen Btle Plan cntns ...

But No Plsma Cuz Yer Can 'ave proj or der missl loik ders ardly any enrgy fer der Prgn ter use 'part from der unque mob drop only enrgy proj t' silvr 'ammer yous know wotta I mean? Evry race 'as a prblm n' mine is da wytch Vinda whoes rstct moi ter five lttrs only in der wordz as youll see in t' game, n unfry got unble to use reply cus ppls noime too long!

[Work 'ptr]

On common damage types, that Progen can use from Projectiles, they have Impact, Chem, and Plasma. Silver Hammer does Energy (Warriors Only) DigiApogee does Explosive (no restrictions, my JE had one in Live) though they are uncommon (in Live DigiApogee PLs were found in Hulks, don't know if any mobs dropped them). Terrans have Explosive, Plasma, Chemical, and EMP, in their Missiles. There isn't a good reason why Jenquai can't have Energy, EMP, & Plasma in our beams. EMP is pretty much useless, outside of maybe the Arena, 2 useful damage types in Jenquai made beams, isn't unreasonable, since there are mobs that are immune to energy, and EMP is useless against mobs, because it cannot destroy the hulls of mechanical mobs, and bio-mobs are immune to it.

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Yer can use oder weapn too!

Proj: Its de best weapn! Boom Boom boom

Missl: Gud to annoy da wytch vinda an' dats why I use it!

But der gotta be some debuf wiz just usin react nergy 'n t' dam types iz it! Giz mez uncle a call in nasty vor will ye?

[Workz puter]

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Yer can use oder weapn too!

Proj: Its de best weapn! Boom Boom boom

Missl: Gud to annoy da wytch vinda an' dats why I use it!

But der gotta be some debuf wiz just usin react nergy 'n t' dam types iz it! Giz mez uncle a call in nasty vor will ye?

[Workz puter]

I actually did use Projectiles on my JE in Live, in addition to beams (JE/JT cannot use missiles). Found that with the right equipment. They were effective on a JE.

The big reasons that most players don't level up their alternate weapons are as follows.

1. It doesn't go up to Level 9

2. Little equipment made by race to support alternate weapons.

3. Not enough skill points.

Used the following loadout with PLs in Live on my JE.

2X Ninja's Shuriken PL with PM Ammo (Improve beam handling, Improve Cloaking)

1x Most Value PL Type Zet with PM ammo (Increase Maneuverability, Speed, ML range)

L8 Veiled Oyoroi

L9 Heart of the Dark One (Turbo Projectile/Beam, Boost Beam/Projectile range)

L8 Reinforced Solar Sail (Reactor Renewal, Shield Renewal, Increase Maneuverability, Device energy conserve)

L7 Ivory Ward (equip deflects)

L8 Tolerance (deflects not covered by Ivory Ward)

L8 Hercules (Environment shield & Device Damage Control)

L8 Loony's Special Gizmoblatsit (Reduce sig, Increase Scan, Fast Tractor, Long Tractor) JE/PE Only

L8 Coma (Scan Blind, Activated)

L9 Chili-Popper Debuff to Energy, Plasma, and Impact.

L9 Power Augmenter 9 and Blood of the Dragon were swapped in for Coma and Chili-popper prior to fight, and swapped out.

Took me quite some time, after reaching L150 to be able to use those PLs, and to max engines.

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.......

You Devs are welcome to do what you want with Mobs and their difficulty, just be advised that some of us from Live are attracted to EnB because it is NOT a mandatory combat centric game, and your recent and intended future changes are making it one. Too much combat in a space MMO is why I don't play any other space MMO, especially when it comes to being a Miner that enjoys the simple peace and quiet of a nice Roid Belt and the soothing sound of my Mining laser.

/sign /sign /sign

If this experience is diminished or drowned out by the sound of my Hull exploding from a Belt Guardian 5 times my CL while I am mining Copper Ore... Well it will be time to retire as a Jenquai Miner permanently. There are many other classes to play in EnB Emulator that will be far more Player friendly with the current and future changes than a JE is and will be.

No, I don't mean to sound rude or obnoxious with how I wrote this post, for me "these are just the facts" about the situation. I wanted to be honest with you and the rest of the Dev Team.

Playing a JE as a miner is not like in live game. My main was always a je in live game and i loved to play my je in live. Now i play a combat class - it's not the same, its ok, but it's not the same.

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Too much combat in a space MMO is why I don't play any other space MMO, especially when it comes to being a Miner that enjoys the simple peace and quiet of a nice Roid Belt and the soothing sound of my Mining laser. If this experience is diminished or drowned out by the sound of my Hull exploding from a Belt Guardian 5 times my CL while I am mining Copper Ore... Well it will be time to retire as a Jenquai Miner permanently. There are many other classes to play in EnB Emulator that will be far more Player friendly with the current and future changes than a JE is and will be.

Well spoken, I couldn't have said it better.

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You Devs are welcome to do what you want with Mobs and their difficulty, just be advised that some of us from Live are attracted to EnB because it is NOT a mandatory combat centric game, and your recent and intended future changes are making it one. Too much combat in a space MMO is why I don't play any other space MMO, especially when it comes to being a Miner that enjoys the simple peace and quiet of a nice Roid Belt and the soothing sound of my Mining laser.

When Scripting and the "Trade System" are implemented, there will be more for you to do. Combat is one of the easier things to add since you really don't need a whole lot, except to place the mobs (at the bare minimum). Keep in mind, we are not actually at the content creation phase. We have been adding content and things to do, since the SDEV's are still adding in the main functionality of the game.

Big things that I am excited to see, will be the new trade system and the scripting. Lua (if we go with that) will allow us to make the mobs and other things do more then just "float around in a circle."

We are in a Pre-Alpha/Alpha state. The game is playable, compared to 6 months ago, and the server can stay up for about 160 hours at the moment without a restart. That is almost a whole week!

A patch/content push is coming to fix a few issues across the entire game.

- Marco

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Marco, can you please tell us more about the trade system?

I am happy to be playing my all time favorite game, but I do think that there need to be some changes vs Live. I like that you've greatly reduced the cooldown timer on Shield Leech, so I can use it more than 1 time on many mobs. I also like that the new classes have been added, and the recent work on the JT.

Mostly the JE needs something new to make him clearly the best miner, and common non-uber, Plasma beams to defend himself when attacked by energy-immune orefield guardians. (something that was like pulling teeth from hens to get the Live developers to do) These Plasma beams, need not do uber damage, average dps will do paired with average energy efficency, and should have at least 1 fairly common buff (for the Jenquai race) on most of them. The main thing, is access to a much more useful damage type, in beams made by Jenquai for Jenquai, and variety in choices in that type. Most should be manufacturable, and not unique (and since they should not be uber beams, their parts should be a combo of vendor parts, and Trader built parts). The JT will need the same love in beams, so I propose that most new plasma beam lines be useable by all Jenquai. Starting with a line that has a Scan buff on all levels, a second one that has a reactor recharge buff. The Scan buff one should probably be Jenquai Only. No need for the unique tag on most of them. Some other beams could be unique, but they should have rarer buffs on them, like say beam energy conservation. (like the EoFF)

Mobs apropriate to orefield makes sense too. The Juoonas in SE are an example of mobs that are apropraite to field. If there are pure L9 fields their guardians should be in the 45-56 range. Remember Explorers are less capable of combat than Traders and Warriors from their same race, so no need to go up to 66 on most orefield guardians. An orefield with mostly L7 and L8 ores should probably have guardians from L40-L51. Scale downwards from there. Most orefield guardian mobs, should not be able to see cloaked, and should probably not have very good scan range. (it does need to be possible to sneak around them carefully without having to constantly cloak). Ores available in fields should vary in quality with the difficulty of the orefield to find, and/or the difficulty of the orefield guardians to avoid or kill.

Fix cloak so it doesn't get interrupted so much. Interrupting Jenquai skill use should be difficult, but not impossible.

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Marco,

Despite my tone throughout this thread, your insight into what's going on is deeply appreciated. On a "moving forward" kind of thing, is there a way to tag a content release so when we're posting with concerns and such folks can easily tell that we're talking about a certain content cycle? So when folks read back at these threads they won't sit there thinking, "what are these people talking about?"

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Marco, can you please tell us more about the trade system?

I'd love to, but even I do not have all the details. Out of respect to the owner of the idea, I am not going to mention too much about it, unless he says it's OK to discuss it while hes developing it. The basic concept is going to replace the old Job terminal system with a more Dynamic and "Living" Trade Market with more sensible jobs. This might require an entire revamp of our current concept of trade and trade XP. So no longer does everyone have to gather up at THE job terminal (wherever it is) to get the best jobs. Everyone will have an equal chance to get decent jobs.

Marco,

Despite my tone throughout this thread, your insight into what's going on is deeply appreciated. On a "moving forward" kind of thing, is there a way to tag a content release so when we're posting with concerns and such folks can easily tell that we're talking about a certain content cycle? So when folks read back at these threads they won't sit there thinking, "what are these people talking about?"

We are working on a system currently. It might just end up as a forum post labeled as "patch notes."

- Marco

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I'd love to, but even I do not have all the details. Out of respect to the owner of the idea, I am not going to mention too much about it, unless he says it's OK to discuss it while hes developing it. The basic concept is going to replace the old Job terminal system with a more Dynamic and "Living" Trade Market with more sensible jobs. This might require an entire revamp of our current concept of trade and trade XP. So no longer does everyone have to gather up at THE job terminal (wherever it is) to get the best jobs. Everyone will have an equal chance to get decent jobs.

- Marco

Thank you Marco. Can't wait to see it.

Can you comment on whether or not Jobs will still positively affect faction the way they did in Live. (Do a job sponsored by Sabine, get positive Sabine faction upon completion, no negative faction). Another important thing with jobs was faction gain, without harm to other factions. (Important to be able to use as many gates as possible, and avoid some fights, especially if yow aren't a combat class)

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Can you comment on whether or not Jobs will still positively affect faction the way they did in Live. (Do a job sponsored by Sabine, get positive Sabine faction upon completion, no negative faction). Another important thing with jobs was faction gain, without harm to other factions. (Important to be able to use as many gates as possible, and avoid some fights, especially if yow aren't a combat class)

At the moment, I can say Yes. But this is subject to being changed down the road, if a new concept for implementation is added.

- Marco

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Wow – a lot of replies. I’ve been off working the Terran Trader and the Progen Trader – alternate toons (and the Trader I never took seriously except for to build) – and been having a blast. The Jenquai Explorer has finally taken a back seat. Never thought it would happen.

So what have I experienced?

Leveliing toons with combat and trade loot is ridiculously easy. Leveling explore and trade with a JE and mining is extraordinarily hard. Been working hard all my life and don’t need to continue that in a game. I want to have fun. And I already knew that explore in these trade/combat toons hardly mattered because I can level past trade-experience max and have the others fill any others with the overflow.

These toons are fun.

With “The Dance” (or The Way of the Zen ) gone from the JE, the attraction is gone. I have kept Toreava, I think, because of nostalgia. With the asteroids placed in wide circles it is hard to keep up the dance, so it is a drudge. The way the roids were set up before was perfect.

I’d rather deal with a few cherry-pickers than have lost what this profession has lost. I’m working a TS which I drag behind me to clean up any asteroids or crystals (which I cannot fit in Toreava’s cargp hold.) The Clearin g Field bonus has become far too valuable with the decreased value in explore. And I’m not talking about any silly triple explore.

So – perhaps I’ll drudge away with Toreava from time to time to get the ores I need for builds. I think refined ores rather than ripped ones can effect build qualities – seems to have been true in the past. I used my ores for my own builds.

No more debate from me for the JE. It’s a lost cause. Been defending it too long.

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...

With “The Dance” (or The Way of the Zen ) gone from the JE, the attraction is gone. I have kept Toreava, I think, because of nostalgia. With the asteroids placed in wide circles it is hard to keep up the dance, so it is a drudge. The way the roids were set up before was perfect.

....

No more debate from me for the JE. It’s a lost cause. Been defending it too long.

I think the "nonminers" have not understand what a je is for us - and why we played a je in live game.

I had this in much online games over the last years... "...my class can not kill this mob, i'm only a supporter, thats not fair, i want to be a killer!" And the devs always do the same... they balance every class in the game to the same point. Why? (I understand balance in a pvp game where everyone is playing against everyone. But in enb we play together and have fun together.)

Job terminals? Jobs? For what? To go fast to end game content and level 150? If a player want end game combat content and from 0to150 in a short time, he can go and and play a PW or a TE.

Look back to the live game and give us the je from live game. The Asteroid fields, like in live game and the mobs in the fields like in live game. And yes, some more plasma beams or remove the energy immunity from the mobs in the asteroid fields or replace the mobs in the fields with mobs without energy immunity.

And PLEASE forget the peoples which always in every game cry: "BALANCE BALANCE BALANCE!" This is enb. A game to have fun. And mining can be fun. Combat is fun, too. But there are 8 classes in game for combat. Let us one for mining fun. Balance kill every game.

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And PLEASE forget the peoples which always in every game cry: "BALANCE BALANCE BALANCE!" This is enb. A game to have fun. And mining can be fun. Combat is fun, too. But there are 8 classes in game for combat. Let us one for mining fun. Balance kill every game.

Only Balance I've seen that needs to be addressed is when groups would refuse an individual because he/she was a certain class. For example, the Jenquai Seeker. Groups were refusing the JT in favor of a TT or PP for the groups. So thats why I tweaked the class a bit and am still, to make it a more viable choice since we had very few JTs compared to every other class.

- Marco

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I'm with Growlz on this.

Personally, the payback for using no ammunition is the use of energy / EMP and in rarity plasma.

JE's need "payback" for having weak shields, less weapons and having their primary role being mining in areas where the predominant mob they will encounter is resistant to the weapons they DO have? If your intent is to *further* discourage people from bothering to play the new, not-so-improved, JE you are doing an excellent job. :)

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I'm with Growlz on this.

Personally, the payback for using no ammunition is the use of energy / EMP and in rarity plasma.

Then get rid of ALL energy immune orefield guardians, permanently. Start with Manes and Voltoi.

Let's be honest, already have poor shields, thin armor, fewest weapon mounts, only 1 offensive skill besides Beam/Projectile Weapon, shortest range, damage penalties for using beams beyond 50% range (live), and beams are hardwired to one type of damage. In the mean time most ammo weapons can use 3 types of damage, have longer range, and don't face penalties for use beyond 50% range.

EMP is totally useless as a type of damage against mobs. It cannot damage the hulls of mechanical mobs, AND bio-mobs are immune. There aren't any mobs that don't fall into one or the other of those categories. Energy beams are useless against Manes who guard orefields. Having orefield guardians IMPOSSIBLE to damage, isn't worth infinite shots. Make 40% of our beams plasma or make ALL mobs killable with energy.

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