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Ulyydian

Role Specializations (Weapons & equipment)

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I'm currently sitting at the kitchen table, drinking coffee and trying to not wake up the dogs (it's cold out and not looking forward to the morning ...It's too cold to go out...can't we just do it on the floor? fight.) Also using wireless and not anxious to get into game without a wired connection.  

 

Here is my idea of the day....

 

Instead of posting ideas for class changes and announcing when those changes may or may not? be implemented in game in an OPEN forum channel..

 

Idea:

Have the content devs hand pick a few players that have expressed interest and or made good suggestions, bring them into the super secret double probationary fold to discuss these changes.  This way the ideas can be tossed around, active discussion about why this or that is a particularly bad or good idea, without letting the cat out of the bag.  

 

 

Rational:

No additional players stomp off and leave the game before things are actually implemented.

No deadlines come and go with disappointment from the masses.

 

 

I would hate to see this rushed into game, (see Agrippa and the pains associated with that).  

 

P.S. Still waiting for the "back door" into Agrippa for my PS.   

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I have an idea for a third explorer spec.

 

Archaeologist Specialization:
 
The Archaeologist  is the one to find and uncover things no-one else can.
 
They are trained to uncover new/ancient resources and items.
What they lack in combat and trade abilities they make up with new technologies and ancient resources.  
Their expertise lies in finding hidden fields, new resources , temples (on planets) and Alien Shipwrecks.
Their specialty lies in creating new item builds (Reactors, Devices, Shields, Engines and weapons (depending on race, restricted to the specialization)

For this, new skills should be introduced. Uncover, See Hidden, Build Artifact, and maybe  a new item (wich would replace a weapon slot) called an Extractor (lvl 1 to 9)
Skills they should be depending on:

Scan (with a bonus)
See Hidden : The ability to find hidden (cloaked?) fields, temples and wrecks.
Uncover : before Extracting, finds need to be uncovered before they can be extracted.
Extract
Build Artifact
Some sort of reactor recharge skill

Pro's :
The only class that can find the new resources
The only class that can build the artefact(s)

Con's:
Cannot prospect normal ores
Cannot build normal items
Bad at combat and trading.

 

---

This probably need to have a lot added to the game though, so i'm not sure if it can be done.

Sounds nice though :)

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wow.....just wow.

 

While I think the idea is interesting locking it down so its not changeable seems to violate the whole class setup of EnB.  If I choose a skill set I don't like I am screwed and have to re-level a whole new toon?  Isn't that the whole point of the PS's 135 skill to allow a player to try out different skills and play styles?

 

Seems like a lot more work could be done to make most skills more useful and balanced....or even god forbid give every class a working level 135 skill and not just the PS (JE still doesn't have its 135 skill working). Even making gear specific to certain classes or mobs more susceptible to certain skills would seem like a better first step then spending all this time modifying existing class balance....but if you do it at least make it adjustable so the game isn't further ruled by those players able to max level 10+ different toons multi-boxing.

 

NOTE: I took a quick look at the spread sheet and there are buffs for items that are currently not even working/balanced.  This will even further unbalance existing classes. As an example gear damage reduction is useless when gear is so rarely damaged in structure and quality.  Turbo is currently most powerful for the slowest weapons.  Westwood understood this and capped turbo from simply being a speed increase to actually adding to the damage down (EG: first 40% applies to rate of fire......every point after that applies to damage output and not rate of fire).  I would suggest ensuring that all of the areas effected by these buffs be working/balanced before adding in a whole new set of gear that uses these buffs.

 

Furthermore the devs may want to consider how easy 99% of the mobs in the game are. Most players have zero problem killing mobs 10 levels higher than their CL even with most mobs mass aggroing. Mobs cannot catch players so almost no one ever dies. Adding more damage output, further damage reduction, and greater range to the existing classes via these specializations is just going to turn an already EZ mode game into one no one wants to play.  Toughen up the mobs, their skill usage, and AI before further buffing players.

Edited by Crichton
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Crichton,

 

I think you are missing the whole point on this....you are NOT locked down to anything, what gave you that idea?

This actually gives you more ways to play then before, right now everyone just uses the same build.

Ask what is the best build for PW or JW and you'll get roughly the same answer with the same equipment.

 

Now you have three ways to play, TANK, DPS, and SPECIAL.

I don't mean to be rude, but you have not really looked at this closely at all.

I have been working on this for months.

 

Allowing a person to change specializations midway would not make them specializations at all.

It would also open the door to exploits via certain item combinations.

 

As far as skills and adding more things, there are limits to what can be done with the engine. Sad fact but true.

Also there is not much that can be done right now about multi-boxing.

 

Regarding the buffed items, these are not existing items, I am creating ALL NEW ITEMS FROM SCRATCH.

I wanted to emphasize that last part because when all said and done this will be almost a thousand new items.

 

As far as buffs I am well aware of how they work and I am doing very careful balancing.

Regarding your comment about the game being EZ mode, I disagree.

There are many posts about people having a hard time, especially at higher levels alone.

Not everyone multi-boxes...

 

As far as mobs, skills, and AI goes that is already being worked on, we can't do everything at once.

Also I am looking at these specializations with an eye toward PVP.

 

It's already been noted and mentioned we are looking at adding that feature.

The question is how, but this will certainly put more variety into it.

 

Look at how PVP was in live, everyone used the SAME build for the classes otherwise you gimped yourself.

Not so with these specializations.

 

When you have a spec that can shoot from 10K out....that changes the game

Then another that can nerf the heck out of all your stats....

Or another one that has massive tanking ability and is extremely hard to kill.

 

Look at the big picture, not the small little piece and you will see what I really doing :)

 

BTW the warrior specs are now finished.

I am working on adding the missions.

When I finished I will be looking for beta testers.

 

My goal is to have Warrior specs out by Feb patch, if everything goes well.

I hope to have the Trader specs by Mar, and Explorer specs by April.

 

Obviously these are subject to change, but this is my plan.

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Thanks for the update Ulyydian.  Also I agree greatly that there shouldn't be a "standard" setup for any profession, if it means that everyone will set up their ship with the same equipment.  Given the ability to customize one's weapons & devices, it only makes sense that there be more than one viable way to configure your ship.  It's even better if for a raid, it helps to have members of the same class, with different specialty configurations rather than all the same way.  Not sure if that would work.

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I am also gearing this toward raids too.

 

With three different types they are going to play different.

 

Example for PW:

 

Centurion - main tank, awesome resist and massive armor - Grants group AOE shield regen buff

Gunslinger - Primary DPS.  1/3 the armor of the Cent.  They are meant to move and burn their shields.

Sharpshooter - Shoot from 6k out.  Cannot move or warp.  While in this mode damage taken is doubled.

 

You can also swap your spec items out and combine them with others.

I will also be working on RAID SPEC REWARDS.

 

There are many many combinations to be had with this and there is not a one size fits all.

I'm certain people will like the variety this brings.

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I am also gearing this toward raids too.

 

With three different types they are going to play different.

 

Example for PW:

 

Centurion - main tank, awesome resist and massive armor - Grants group AOE shield regen buff

Gunslinger - Primary DPS.  1/3 the armor of the Cent.  They are meant to move and burn their shields.

Sharpshooter - Shoot from 6k out.  Cannot move or warp.  While in this mode damage taken is doubled.

 

You can also swap your spec items out and combine them with others.

I will also be working on RAID SPEC REWARDS.

 

There are many many combinations to be had with this and there is not a one size fits all.

I'm certain people will like the variety this brings.

 

 

Definitely, thanks for mentioning raids and the need for different specs for maximum probability of success.  Raid spec rewards is even better, great idea.

 

Only thing I wonder, is equipment replacement for dinged equipment, but then again, I did a thread a while back about solutions for that w/r/t irreplaceable items.  If that were implemented, this equipment could be covered by Solution 2 or 3.  Thread is titled Irreplaceable Items, and is in Suggestions.  (Suggestion 1 could also work if skill waivers are applied to these items, like the Gaze of Amah from the original game)

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Definitely, thanks for mentioning raids and the need for different specs for maximum probability of success.  Raid spec rewards is even better, great idea.

 

Only thing I wonder, is equipment replacement for dinged equipment, but then again, I did a thread a while back about solutions for that w/r/t irreplaceable items.  If that were implemented, this equipment could be covered by Solution 2 or 3.  Thread is titled Irreplaceable Items, and is in Suggestions.  (Suggestion 1 could also work if skill waivers are applied to these items, like the Gaze of Amah from the original game)

Option 1 seems good to me. One of the things about EnB that appeals to me is that so much can be player made.
I think all new content should be designed to be player made. The unique and non-trade flags are enough to limit availability of items as far as I'm concerned, and the manufacturing skill type waiver used in the MCP could be used so everyone could build their own non-trade items. The only thing I can think of that non-manufacturable items has going for them would be the variation in quality, but that could be achieved by limiting the availability of components and increasing the difficulty so 200% quality becomes rare.

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Option 1 seems good to me. One of the things about EnB that appeals to me is that so much can be player made.
I think all new content should be designed to be player made. The unique and non-trade flags are enough to limit availability of items as far as I'm concerned, and the manufacturing skill type waiver used in the MCP could be used so everyone could build their own non-trade items. The only thing I can think of that non-manufacturable items has going for them would be the variation in quality, but that could be achieved by limiting the availability of components and increasing the difficulty so 200% quality becomes rare.

 

I do like that idea, though I ended up voting for the Hybrid solution, where 2 was used where 1 wouldn't work.   I'd love to see the Chili-Popper and Loony's Special Gizmoblatsit done that way, especially since the 2 classes that can use it, PE & JE, both have the build devices skill.  Since those devices were also No-Trade IIRC it's not an issue of one JE or PE doing the mission chain then selling the items to others, but being able to rebuild his own if it gets it's quality dinged.

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Knix,

 

While I like player made as well, there are major problems with this.

Due to the way the engine works, you can only limit items by race/class.

 

That means if players were able to make the spec equipment, then you have have one PW able to wear ALL pieces of Cent / Guns / Sharp items...

That would completely break the system and open several exploits in the process.

 

Do you really want a PW to have the tanking ability of the Cent, the DPS off the Guns, AND have the 6K range of the sharp?

That is what would happen with a mix match scenario.

 

I have no way to limit this except to make them non-manu plus non-tradeable and only give them to players as a quest reward.

That way I can be sure they are not getting around the system.

Each spec is designed to have its own strength and weakness and that allows for careful balancing.

 

The ammo for the specs can be player made up to 200%, and I have that included in my DPS calcs.

 

If you start throwing hodpodge configurations into the mix it makes it near impossible to balance properly.

 

As far as quality, yes I am looking into solutions for that as well, thank you for the thread on that.

I will take a very close look at that.

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I was also just looking over this again and this really stood out:

 

manufacturing skill type waiver used in the MCP could be used so everyone could build their own non-trade items

 

What is this?  I am not aware of this.

 

One of my concerns were that not every class could build alot of items so only some of them would be 200%

If you are saying every class can build everything, well then that completely changes things.

 

Edit:

 

In the event the above it true and all classes can build all items, then I would look at making the spec items manuf.

That would resolve the quality issue.

As long as I could assure they could not be traded with other players by any means, that would work.

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Is it possible to make an item that is only useable by a particular toon?  Something like a "Daath Only" restriction?

 

Say I were to be building an item for my JD, but using my TT to build it... the JD would build a Device (since JDs have device build) then the TT uses that device as a component in the final product (Say a shield or engine) and this would bestow a specific tag (DaathJD Only) to the item.  This allows me to trade it, get it rebuilt as needed, and yet the only avatar that can use it is the specified toon.

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I was also just looking over this again and this really stood out:

 

manufacturing skill type waiver used in the MCP could be used so everyone could build their own non-trade items

 

What is this?  I am not aware of this.

 

One of my concerns were that not every class could build alot of items so only some of them would be 200%

If you are saying every class can build everything, well then that completely changes things.

 

Yes, in EnB Origins, there was a JE weapon called the L9 Gaze of Amah, and an all explorers weapon called the L8 Gaze of the Martyr. Both are in the database.  In order to build them, you needed the recipe which you received if you turned in the requisite number of passes.  Both of those were Beam Weapons, but you had to have a build skill raised to maximum to build them.   The Gaze of Amah recipe had a price of 15 passes, which required plenty of mining to get the prerequisite ores.  The PE also had a device that allowed the manufacture of Archos ammo.  The Threaded Archos that drops in game, is something that should be a PE build, via the Archos Threader devices.  Turning in the passes, and picking that recipe gave you only a disc for that recipe.  Putting the recipe disk in a device slot & activating it put the recipe in your recipe book.  These items were all non-tradeable.

 

This could apply to the role specializations by making the same waiver, requiring a maxed build skill, where you get the items for yoru specialization as recipes but those are the only recipes you get, and all the items are no-trade.  I'm not sure how the devs made that possible in the original game, but the game can recognize the ability to waive specific build skills, and go on existing skills.  Otherwise the Gaze of Amah, and Gaze of the Martyr, wouldn't have been able to be used.  They'd have to be build by a character with the build Weapons skill, but they'd be unable to use them, as they were Explorer Only, and wouldn't be able to sell them as they were no-trade. 

 

In Zach's mission that was designed for the JE, PE, and TT, the components like the Sturdy Solar Panel & Sturdy Solar Cell could be made by anyone who knew the recipe & had the requisite resources.  The same could be said for some of the sub-components like the Roller Press.  The final items; however, were limited by your build skills.  The JE could build a line of devices as a reward, and the Balefire line of reactors, the PE and TT could build the Fiery line of Shields & the line of devices.  The line of devices, shields, and reactors were tradeable if I recall correctly.

 

Edit: For the mission(s) to get the specialization items, after completion of said mission, you're given a choice to pick which specialization you want, and the mission would not be repeatable.  That way no one could go back, do the mission again and pick a different choice.  When the mission is over, first you have the choice to see what each of the specializations gives, the last choice being something along the lines of "I'm ready to pick".  Picking that item would move towards the dialogue saying something along the lines of "So which one will it be?"  The player then can pick the specialization they want, and get the recipes for those items, they'd also have the option of saying "I'm not sure" and going to get the descriptions.  I don't know if it's possible for there to be an "I need to think about it more" leave the NPC, and come back to make the choice.  If it's doable that would be interesting, but I don't know if that's doable, and something that can be done practically.

 

It's also possible for non-manufacturable items to have been balanced for issue at 200% quality, but I can only remember one from the game, the Loony's Special Gizmoblatsit.  It was an reward for one of the intermediate missions in the Lyle MacDonald mission chain to ultimately make a ring.

Edited by Terrell

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I do like that idea, though I ended up voting for the Hybrid solution, where 2 was used where 1 wouldn't work.   I'd love to see the Chili-Popper and Loony's Special Gizmoblatsit done that way, especially since the 2 classes that can use it, PE & JE, both have the build devices skill.  Since those devices were also No-Trade IIRC it's not an issue of one JE or PE doing the mission chain then selling the items to others, but being able to rebuild his own if it gets it's quality dinged.

I agree. For existing non-manufacturable items I think 2 would be best.

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Knix,

 

While I like player made as well, there are major problems with this.

Due to the way the engine works, you can only limit items by race/class.

 

That means if players were able to make the spec equipment, then you have have one PW able to wear ALL pieces of Cent / Guns / Sharp items...

That would completely break the system and open several exploits in the process.

 

Do you really want a PW to have the tanking ability of the Cent, the DPS off the Guns, AND have the 6K range of the sharp?

That is what would happen with a mix match scenario.

 

I have no way to limit this except to make them non-manu plus non-tradeable and only give them to players as a quest reward.

That way I can be sure they are not getting around the system.

Each spec is designed to have its own strength and weakness and that allows for careful balancing.

 

 

Just making the items non-tradeable should be enough. Limiting the missions giving the prints to one spec per toon would assure that one toon could only get equipment from one spec.

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To clarify on the build skill waiver, it's not a thing I'd think of doing game wide, but only in some cases.  I don't think it should apply outside of specific circumstances, such as the MCP, and perhaps equipment that is given as a reward for completing specific non-repeatable missions.  Those items that are rewards for non-repeatable missions, where such a waiver would apply to anyone who can do the mission, said item should also be tagged no-trade, IMO.

 

Even in the case of Role Specialization, I'd only apply the waivers to the highest level of things you can use (assuming all equipment skills are maxed out for the character in question).  The ones below, could simply be changed when the class in question qualifies for the next level of equipment.

 

Now if it's something that can be built, under the normal build skills of the character completing the mission, they should be able to build & sell said item, per normal gameplay.  Assuming that there aren't other game specific reasons not to allow trading.  Such things like an item that is intended to reward only the mission doer.  Loony's Special Gizmoblatsit, Chili-Popper, Loony's Hunk O'Metal, would be examples.

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Hmm i'll need to think about the build procedure.

 

My main issue is people have been getting around the no-trade flag using a different number of methods.

It's also alot harder to prevent trading between same account characters.

I could see someone making multiple same class and giving all the spec gear to one char to exploit.

 

I need to do some more testing, but if the same thing happens as last time I think the current method is best.

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Hmm i'll need to think about the build procedure.

 

My main issue is people have been getting around the no-trade flag using a different number of methods.

It's also alot harder to prevent trading between same account characters.

I could see someone making multiple same class and giving all the spec gear to one char to exploit.

 

I need to do some more testing, but if the same thing happens as last time I think the current method is best.

There has to be some kind of database quiry that can be run periodiacally to capture manufacturable non-trade equipment made by someone other than the owner and remove such equipment or ban exploiters..

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Correction I misunderstood something earlier, I will see when we can get this content out.

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Updated google docs link.

There should be 22 tabs showing now.

Please let me know if its not working.

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Excuse my ignorance or missing this in the above thread, but is this being introduced in the next wipe?  This is definitely an interesting approach that I would love to see play out.

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Excuse my ignorance or missing this in the above thread, but is this being introduced in the next wipe?  This is definitely an interesting approach that I would love to see play out.

 

There is no next wipe.  Server is in Live status.  Not sure what is going to happen otherwise w/r/t this.

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