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Astrowarrior

Wasted Triggers !

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Many of the current players in the game are seeing triggers going to waste . The general consensus among current regular players is that we need a 24 hour rule within the rotation.   

That being if you can not or do not want to take down the raid within a 24 hour time window it should go to a free for all for the server . It will be announced in General server chat that the 24 hours is up and going to a free for all .  

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First, the 'raid rotation' is more of an agreement between guilds, I'm not sure this thread really belongs in general forum.

 

Anyway, as a private project I've been tracking usage of the raid triggers within the rotation for the last two months. From that I can see that Controller is the one that is most consistently taken down shortly after spawn.   This week seems to be a (rare) exception to that.   As it is now, it most definitely needs some kind of rotation in place to assure fair distribution.  And whenever rotation drama comes up, its almost always the Controller raid at the heart of it.

 

Following that, Ghost of BlackBeard is fairly frequently taken down by the rotation guilds.

 

Red Dragon Base, very rarely is it touched.   Usually only Publics or Builders Inc.

 

The two raids in der Todesengel -- Scooter and Gen'ril -- are almost never taken down except when they're on Publics' week.

 

This agreement is purely within the big guilds following the rotation; it needs to be sorted out and/or possibly modified by them.   Or enough of the general server population needs to rise up to tell them to stuff it and take raids when they want to.   Good luck with that.

 

Disclaimer:   I raid with Publics along with the rest of my Damage Inc Guildmates, and am happy to assist other guilds with their raids when I can.  Unfortunately I play on Pacific time.

 

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Did I miss a Kill the Rotation rant??

 

The management has already said its a player issue

It has been said that a discussion should take place between the "Big 3" and a rep from the Public group

 

Thing is Damage Inc is probably bigger and more active than "The big 3" combined

And the rest of "Public" is also

So why is everyone worried about an outdated treaty of which only a few remain to reap the benefits?

 

If a trigger is up, announce it in General chat, form a group and take it down

 

It wont happen though, even the discussion about it and fizzled out so things will go on as they have

 

Unless something has changed........  

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Okay, I'll bite again. The rotation served its purpose when there were huge numbers of players in the Big 3. Since the numbers have shifted to the majority being in public or other guilds, including Damage Inc, I'd argue that its currently only serving a few multi-boxers at this point, and their respective guilds. If this is indeed the case, and triggers are being left up, you guys need to rally and go take them down as Gunney has suggested.

 

I supported the rotation (and help design it as part of Static) as a method of dealing with large numbers of players, including getting the public a spot. My motives and views then were to simply make the situation more fair for everyone who are able to raid. If the dynamics have changed that much, and those guilds no longer have this majority, then the rules should change or be tossed altogether in favor of the majority of players who can and actually want to raid. I would hope the leaderships of these guilds would acknowledge this difference, and make this change on their own. -Not give into the greed of the situation. But since this does not seem to be the case, nothing will change until those with the greater numbers choose to act and make it a regular thing to do these raids. Until then, this issue is like beating the proverbial dead horse. Hence the fizzle in discussion.

 

 

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I am an Officer in Builders Inc.   I led a lot of our raids consistently for 6 months or more after all of the other guild officers got burnt out and then I finally got burnt out with the lack of participation from other officers and also guildies.

 

I haven't played consistently in about 2 months, but I come back from time to time to chat.   The guild channel is usually dead and hardly anybody is on.   I talked to Astro about why he left Builders Inc for Damage Inc and it's because no one was ever online.

 

I remain in Builders Inc because the rotation still stands and it gives me the ability to invite public/Damage inc members to our raids.  But, it sure is lonely staying in a guild that isn't active anymore.

 

I personally think the raid rotation should be dissolved at this point and everyone should actively work together.  The game population is so low that there is no point in fighting amongst each other for raid triggers.   We should be trying to form a group of friends that enjoy helping each other out.  

 

Tsunami has been good at honoring the raid rotation, but I think it's time to challenge it for the good of the community.   Work together, keep this game going.

 

-Blackmercenary

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I agree Blackmercenary its time to let raid rotation die peacefully..saying that i will still honor raid rotation to a point now..we will ask in general if ur r going to do it..if we get no answers we will automatically  open the raid in general chat and invite every1...if u have a problem with that please express ur concerns now..the only problem i have atm is  making it fair for all time zones...this practice will start monday..im not trying to be the boss or anything but its time we all play nice together..im trying not to step on anyones toes but something needs t be done now in interest in keeping new members involved and old members coming back..please guild leaders speak up or forever hold ur peace... btw this Tsunami

Edited by rufus
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The community, as a whole in the past came to an agreement for the rotation. And it held up fairly well for quite awhile.

What if the rotation wasnt dissolved but modified?

 

 

                               Troller                                      GoBB                              RD

Week 1                   noon-6pm                            6pm-midnight                Midnight-6am

Week 2                    6pm- midnight                     Midnight-6am                6am-Noon

Week 3                    Midnight-6am                      6am-noon                     Noon-6pm

Week 4                    6am-noon                            Noon-6pm                    6pm-midnight

 

This would give each time zone a shot, and all players a chance to adjust their personal time to join in

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So you're suggesting a timezone-based rotation rather than a guild-based one, and all those raids would be conducted as if public.   I'm all for that.

 

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i actually suggested this idea about time zone rotation yesterday in guild chat  but didnt get any reaction  but the schedule seems it might work..we will have to set parameters for it  and get agreements from every1..but the current guild rotation is about to become obsolete as far as im concerned..Tsunami

 

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4 hours ago, Gunney said:

The community, as a whole in the past came to an agreement for the rotation. And it held up fairly well for quite awhile.

What if the rotation wasnt dissolved but modified?

 

 

                               Troller                                      GoBB                              RD

Week 1                   noon-6pm                            6pm-midnight                Midnight-6am

Week 2                    6pm- midnight                     Midnight-6am                6am-Noon

Week 3                    Midnight-6am                      6am-noon                     Noon-6pm

Week 4                    6am-noon                            Noon-6pm                    6pm-midnight

 

This would give each time zone a shot, and all players a chance to adjust their personal time to join in

 

I think that idea is great.  The hardest part for the casual player is getting the raid time to work.  It also takes longer to get everyone together for the public raid.   This would give everyone a time to schedule around and hopefully be ready to raid sooner.

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Its not a new idea, has been brought up many times

The time zones are subjective,  would be based on GMT.  

Or can be broken into 3 time frames,  Or a time within the time frame for it to start so people can plan on it.

 

The player base is only getting smaller,  Im sure most of us already have the items from the raids, OK, so not all of our 12 toons have everything but still

 

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The ADV today gave permission for triggers deemed as 'wasted' (if a guild does not reply to tells) are to be a free for all now as agreed by all the guilds  (except Static ) on this thread . I cant see it on here ? 

 

 

Let the games begin :)

Edited by Prrekoorb

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Advocate position is not a permission giver , but a player mouthpiece to the dev. 

 

I asked Big Guild Leaders about the wasted triggers proposition and they said yes , except for Static who as yet to answer anything on forum or in game.

BTW : PreeKoorb you where supposed to get back to me after your guild discussion on a triger related matter right ?

 

As per the Month past way it as been done .

In accordance with acceptance of almost all main big guild and public representative

when all the triger where on and as per the rule of asking the guild if they are going to do their raid and got no reply

on Static  part

 

I said go ahead. and would vouge for the player that he asked and tried to contact static

 

 ----------

 

Trying to get a raid trigger dedicated forum Thread from the dev as asked by many players.

 

So that communication can also be done on the forum about raid triggers.

 

Also wil try to get a dedicated PRS forum thread :

 

BTW wednesday or thrusday  one dev said he would make a PRS depending on his real life work permitting him to do so  

 

 

Edited by Moulinneuf

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In our private conversation a few days ago i made it clear that i was not i agreement  to any changes to rotation (not that my opinion matter's ) until further notice . I don't know of any member of VGE that was at the agreement that you speak of .

 

BTW how can you ask a guild if they are going to do their raid if they are not online ,we at VGE have members from all over the globe , how could the ones online at the time of asking possibly know what those guildies not online were intending to do ? Unless of course you would like us to resort to just using our players that multibox a group of their own ? And can take down raids solo , but we wont do this . The rotation is flawed sometimes i will admit but its better than a FFA . A PRS run properly would be a solution . 

 

The way VGE gears up new players that join our guild means that at every raid we do the  'Main' toon of a newplayer gets first shout at the raid gear . Thus gearing them up before old players 'alts' , will this be the same under a FFA rule or will it just mean a random roll system is in place meaning newplayer 'mains' may have to wait months maybe before they win raid gear ? And this is also based on multiboxers NOT camping triggers !!! (i dont multibox btw) .

 

Also why is a trigger considered 'wasted' if its up and not being killed ? If its not your week its non of your concern if a guild is not getting all of the goodies it could/might be getting if it pounced on the trigger every time it spawned ffs !! 

 

 

And(this is the last bit i promise :)  ) the ADV freely admits i did not get back in touch with him therefore no decision was made by me :)

 

Edited by Prrekoorb

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Actually, you said yes to wasted trigers . ( wich as been going on for a month BTW )

 

Then when I asked for change to the raid rotation ( another matter ) , You said no change possible until you had to talk and discuss with your guild

You have not get back to me on it BTW.

 

The two are two different things btw. 

 

Do you mean that you changed VGE position on wasted trigers ? 

and are still discussing raid rotation asked change with your guild ?

 

-------

 

Guild who do there raid trigger usually are online that day , they have someone watching for the trigger and they also have player around

When a triger as been sitting for 12-24hour , it usually mean the guild who's trigger it is, is not gonna show up.

 

To answer how to comunicate with guild I asked in 3 online channel , big guild always have someone online when they are alive.

Also requested a raid trigger dedicated forum from the dev as to communicate request and time of raid and takedown.

 

You seem to be mixing raid rotation rules and wasted triggers rules who are two different things. 

No one is talking about an FFA ( except maybe you )

 

PRS is being worked on and is still in development , I asked for the Advocate to run them, but was denied 

One DGM seem to being doing them this days , again when time off work and real life event permiting

 

--------

 

The internal way you do gear up and your own GUILD dedicated raid as no relevance to the discussion , sorry

It's a nice way for new player btw.

 

No one is even remotly discussing FFA at all , unless you are proposing it ? Want other guild and public to vote on it ?

 

Wasted trigers rule ( addition and something else to the raid raotation ) = people asked the guild who's dedicated trigger it is

No reply at all or visual contatc = permission to assemble and do it

OPEN TO ALL SERVER PLAYERS

Item that drop are rolled between raid players who showed up and their toon and whaterver aproval between themself

 

-----------

 

Not suppose to multibox when you do raid rotation triggers 

 Not suppose to multibox when you invoke wasted triggers rule

 

 

------------

 

Private discussion so far on Raid Rotation : 

 

- About the raid rotation I poposed to make Damage Inc a Big guild ( currently they have the most online player showing up

and they also are technically not public anymore. POSSIBLY replacing Static in raid trigger rotation )

As to leave public have a spot too

-I also proposed to remove static from the raid rotation ) I contacted a static leadership member, in game, who was suppose to pass the message along to their triumvirate (3 guild leader/toon not sure I aint static nor do I know there current status or guild leadership formation  ) No decision or reply so far it's a work in progress

, Static raid trigger go unused for full week and almost a month now.

- ( wich VGE leadership was the only one who said they would discuss and get back to me on it ) others agreed on principle.

 

-----------

 

Guild leaders i have on file :

 

Preepp = VGE
TsunamiTT = Damage INC
BI = Raiderman 
Static = Uniicorn / Alurra
Epic = skully

 

Public = ??

(I can have more then one public reprsentative and add small guild leadership if they feel their voice is not

heard )

 

If it's innacurate and need updating , say so or contatc me if you want to tell me if a guild leader MIA and is second replacing him as communication leader

 

--------------------

 

This i what I have.

discuss , contact your people , make decision

Get back to me as SOON as possible. private message work on forum if public is not your thing

and I am in the game mostly at nigth  ( easter time ) and on weekend

and on Teamspeak in the advocate forum.

 

 

 

Edited by Moulinneuf
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Right ok lets get one thing straight i am NOT leader of VGE which is why i said i would get back to you on what VGE thought on the matter of wasted triggers .If you remember you said about the new rules concerning triggers and i said yes to begin with when i answered your public call for "anyone from VGE online" as i thought you had been informed of Iceminers conversation with a couple of the guild leaders . But when i learnt of your intentions i told you i was NOT happy to go along with the conversation any longer until i had informed VGE of what you had said. I was told there would probably be a meeting on TS in the near future to iron things out on how to move forward .

 

As far as FFA i do believe it will descend into this if rotation is messed with .(not objecting to including DI in rota though plus the removal of Static if needed may solve the situation ) 

As far as what we as a guild do with new members at a raid gear roll i was just pointing out how fair this policy is and that if a FFA were to happen as a result of guilds having the trigger taken away from them how would they be raid geared ?

 

Maybe FFA  is too strong a word , maybe it should be OTS (open to some)

 

But saying that , my personnel feelings are it might work if  ....... Wasted triggers rule ( amending the rotation to include DI and the removal of Static if they are no longer a viable guild ) = people asked the guild who's dedicated trigger it is and No reply at all or visual contact after say 12 hours? = permission to assemble and do it OPEN TO ALL SERVER PLAYERS .....Items that drop are rolled between raid players who showed up and their toon and whatever approval between themselves -----------Not allowed to multibox an entire group when you do raid rotation triggers  Not allowed to multibox an entire group when you invoke wasted triggers rule.

 

Anyway this all i have to say on the matter now as i am pissed off with the whole friggin thing , i play this game because i love it :)  If i wanted to be in politics i would have become an MP :(

 

Edited by Prrekoorb

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Guild leaders Update i now have on file :

 

Iceminer = VGE
TsunamiTT = Damage INC
BI = Raiderman 
Static = Uniicorn / Alurra
Epic = skully

 

Public = ??

(I can have more then one public reprsentative and add small guild leadership if they feel their voice is not

heard )

 

If it's innacurate and need updating , say so or contatc me if you want to tell me if a guild leader MIA and is second replacing him as communication leader

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Prrekoorb ,

 

Sorry for the mixup on leadership in your guild. 

have Iceminer or your communication leaders contact me

when they are done with internal discussion.

 

 

 

 

Edited by Moulinneuf
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I vote public takes em all. I was one of the leaders of static when all this was being done. I agree with overtkill for the most part.

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Spoke with Uniicorn, leader from Static on Teamspeak 

 

Say is guild is alive and that they have been doing there triggers , so he was told ( troller this week, 3 time )

 

He did not get message passed to his guildmate ....

 

 

 

Edited by Moulinneuf

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From the following discussion it doesn't look like many have looked at my actual trigger usage data.  Triggers for controller -- and to a lesser extent -- Ghost of Blackbeard  are pretty consistently being taken down.  Red Dragon Base and the two in der Todesengel, are almost universally ignored. 

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Look, the raid rotation needs to die.  The big guilds don't have enough players to justify their claims.  VGE struggles with taking down their triggers in a timely manner.  VGE would regularly run up to the last minute before change over.  Static would leave their triggers up for most of the week.   Builder's Inc (my guild) would have to multi-box consistently and still attendance was a constant problem.  

 

It's time to drop this hording of loot rotation and work together as a server.   VGE/Static/Builders Inc are not capable of competing with the public in terms of numbers.   At this point, they just want exclusive access to loot.  With the numbers being what they are, no guild deserves exclusive access to loot anymore.    Work together.

 

-Blackmercenary

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No guild has exclusive access to the triggers.

Get a group together and go for it.

Nobody can stop you from doing a raid.

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