Even out Cargo size

[garblesoup]

Not sure if it was mentioned already or not, but lets not forget how Hull size impacts combat.

Jenquai do not need as much space as they do not use Missles or Projectiles. so less hull space does not hurt them as much as the other classes.

Progen use Projectiles which usually stack high and take a while to go through.

Terran use Missles, which do not stack very high, and are often quickly consumed.

With my CL34 TE, i go through an entire hull of ammo, in about 30-40 minutes.

Then i have to fly all the way back to a station, rebuild/reload on ammo, and go back out.

I usually have about 5-6 empty slots when i go into combat, every other slot is Ammo.

I honestly feel the Hull size of any class that carries ammo should be increased, more specifically Terran. ;P

Have you played much as a Progen? Because I've played them all *and* I'm primarily a Terran but there's no way I can agree that Terrans blow through ammo quicker than Progen. First, the bigger ammo stacks for Projectiles really don't start until Lvl 5 (Rifles). Even then you have to keep in mind the ROF of PL's vs. ML's and the fact that a PW typically has one more weapon to feed than a TE. From the entire time I played all through Live until now I've never heard anyone claim that Terrans had a bigger ammo burn problem than Progren - and I have to say it's not been my experience.

[Kyp [LDEV]]

This stuff is not necessarily finalized at this moment guys, most of the balancing hasn't been done, we've just got the systems working. Terrans will have 5 more cargo slots on every class than the counterparts of other races. That's part of being a part-trader. This will not change.

[posfordfan1220]

Jenquai do not need as much space as they do not use Missles or Projectiles. so less hull space does not hurt them as much as the other classes.

You're kidding right? JEs need the cargo space or they will run out of room for the ore.

[Tienbau]

yeah my vote would be for the TT to have +5 more cargo slots than the other two traders. This is a vote from a player perspective, since game balancing is up to the content team. But I haven't thought that through at all - it might upset everything

[StarSeekerVDS]

$class.vaultspace = 40;

if ($class.mines == true){ $class.vaultspace+=10; }

if ($class.usesammo == true){ $class.vaultspace+=5; }

if ($class.istrader == true){ $class.vaultspace+=10; }

Which if I remember right yields:

JE = 50

JS = 50

JD = 40

TS = 45

TT = 65

TE = 45

PS = 55

PP = 55

PW = 45

[bondct]

You're kidding right? JEs need the cargo space or they will run out of room for the ore.

actually I think that the progens should get the extra je slots... they need it to carry the dead je bodies that dont fit in the frig and for carrying all the ore the rescued from blown up je ships

[mistergreen]

You're kidding right? JEs need the cargo space or they will run out of room for the ore.

*tap tap tap* Is this thing on? Good, okay now...

Awwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww.

It wasn't a problem in live. Lrn2Mine. It's called pick and chose what you grab and what you leave behind. Some fields have 4 different types of 'roids in them. Invite a miner friend and you each grab 2, Poof mining bonus and then you move on. If you are solo, hit 2, clean out then go back. If someone else has moved in you will still get a clearing bonus because that has happened to me.

Go into the creator and Megan will explain the pluses and minuses of each class she can. It states Progen have some of the lowest cargo because they make up for it in hull size. The Terrans have the best cargo and speed.

[Terrell [BT]]

Is the enlarged cargo hold thing for Terrans going to put the Terran Warrior and Terran Explorer above the Jenquai Trader and Progen Trader? I would expect that the TW and TE would have more cargo capacity than the JE, PE, PW, and JW, which they do 35 slots to 30. I would favor increasing the TT's cargo hold to 45, which makes it better than the PT and JT who have 40, and give the TW and TE 35, which gives them bigger holds than the non-Terrans, except for the other races Traders. IMO it's better to improve the TT to make it better than the other two traders, in cargo space, than to keep the TT the same, and lower the other 2 traders.

[Moche]

the old classes should stay as they were, if anything the new classes should be ajusted so that they are apropriate so PP and JS need to loose 5. it makes no sense adjusting the old classes around unballanced and unfinished new classes.

[Raytan]

I keep hearing about balance but I have yet to see anyone address how a few extra cargo spaces would suddenly add some big game changing unbalance to the game. We are not talking hull size here which add's survivability, we are not talking extra weapon or device slots which are pretty significant changes all we are talking is a few extra cargo slots. All a few more cargo slots bring to the table is convenience, which is a GOOD thing, Terrains will still remain the best at trading and trade runs with L9 engines and Negotiate it's not like they will suddenly be knocked off the top of the trading totem poll because each archetype has equal cargo space. Look at all 3 traders right now, they have equal cargo space, I don't see any whining about how Progen and Jenquia are as good as Terrains at trade runs. So I ask again does anyone have a good argument as to how even cargo slots adds unbalance to the game other then "that's the way it is" which is really no argument at all and sounds like something my grandpa would say.

*waits for the obligatory stupid* "well is adding cargo space is convenient then lets just give everyone 1000 cargo slots and call it a day." reply.

[Moche]

so yeah all that 6th weapon slot does for PW's is add convenience just like that 6th device slot for JE's... point being cargo space is the TT extreme that allows them to better perform in their prescribed role, it does significantly impact trade runs, thereby making the leveling faster if that is the course you take, the way trade runs are currently reworked they are a very respectable xp source for trader classes (it's how my TT got TL and CL 50 pre-wipe), not so much for any other class and the 5 slot advantage a TT is supposed to have would be noticeable.

[Raytan]

First off I highly doubt that if it is decided to give the TT a 5 slot advantage over the other 2 trade class's that they will be granted 45 total slots. More likely what will happen would be a reduction of of the other trader's to 35. Secondly, we could banter back and forth all day about this but the fact of the matter is as it stands now the TT IS the superior Tradesmen even without it's 5 slot advantage period. Negotiate 7, Navigate 5, Engine Tech 9, and to top it off 5 build skills, so lets put that one to rest already.

[nimr0dbbow[IS]]

Lot easier to suggest devices that are TT only and add +4 cargo slots per device.

Hmmm... is that Marco wispering in ear "We can't do that Byaaakkkkheeeeee"

[mistergreen]

Really now, how much faster do level 9 engines get from zone to zone vs lvl 8 engines?

[Raytan]

Top warp on the L9's is 4250 vs 4k for the 8's granted not a huge difference but a difference none the less and when your talking trade runs speed is key and lets not forget navigate.

[Terrell [BT]]

Top warp on the L9's is 4250 vs 4k for the 8's granted not a huge difference but a difference none the less and when your talking trade runs speed is key and lets not forget navigate.

Agree with you partly, namely the L9 engine part, L5 Navigate does make you engage warp faster, and makes your impulse speed faster, but it doesn't increase your warp speed until you get L6. TT only gets L5 Navigate.

[Moche]

First off I highly doubt that if it is decided to give the TT a 5 slot advantage over the other 2 trade class's that they will be granted 45 total slots. More likely what will happen would be a reduction of of the other trader's to 35. Secondly, we could banter back and forth all day about this but the fact of the matter is as it stands now the TT IS the superior Tradesmen even without it's 5 slot advantage period. Negotiate 7, Navigate 5, Engine Tech 9, and to top it off 5 build skills, so lets put that one to rest already.

you apparently havn't actually read the thread other than your own posts, a reduction of the PP and JS hull sizes is exactly what i've suggested in at least 2 previous posts. and arguing that level 9 engines gives TT's advantage is misleading you wouldn't get those till level 140 even if you did actually spend the points on them (engines as you may recall is a frequently neglected skill tree as the benefits were relative to other skill trees marginal untill the SS8 came in game). i agree the TT is the superior crafter though to say just tradesman i'd argue that the PP is much more playable having level 9 reactor and about double TT damage.

[Terrell [BT]]

I think that the PT actually does more than 2x DPS of a TT of the same combat level/overall level, since the TT doesn't get critical targeting, and the PT does, in addition to an additional weapon mount. IMO PT is the most combat oriented Trader, which he should be. For the other 2 traders to get any significant crits, they either have to have rally cast upon them by a TW, or have a piece of equipment that offers greater chance to get critical hits. (Since the buff is increase critical hit chance by X% rather than Improve critical targeting skill by X levels)

[Raytan]

In combat the PP may be the better offensive trader, which is only to be expected, but the TT is superior at combat support with hull patch and shield charging, of course hull patch was originally slated for the TS class only so maybe the TT's outta lose it So we can agree that the TT is the superior crafter and it's fair to say the TT is the superior support class in combat and that it has the upper hand when it comes to trade runs. I see nothing left to argue about on this subject, its clear that TT's are a strong class and need no buff's whether direct or by proxy by nerfing the other traders, whew! glad we could get that outta the way

Now where were this thread got hijacked by the trader discussion?

[garblesoup]

Top warp on the L9's is 4250 vs 4k for the 8's granted not a huge difference but a difference none the less and when your talking trade runs speed is key and lets not forget navigate.

Traders with enough skill points to have a Lvl 9 engine are not doing Trade Runs anymore.

Besides, I'm still seeing caps on warp speed that make the value of a Lvl 9's top speed not so important (though there may be buffs that some players find attractive). In ST3 my JE (a lowly, slow, JE) was getting capped somewhere around 5.8K. With max Navigate, Lvl 8 RR+ and/or Laz and *either* a L5 Dragonflight or Halley - same speed, even though the Halley is 250 slower than the DF.

[mistergreen]

In live 5k was the max warp cap and unless you were after buffs, 5 or 6 was where most people stopped with their engines.

[Kyp [LDEV]]

To the person asking about what it would affect in terms of balance, I can answer that in one word:

Economy.

[rbtmatrix]

Alright lets talk about balance for a second, what possible imbalance could be introduced by giving all archetypes equal cargo space with one another? If you can give me one good reason other then "that's they way it's always been" then a gold star for you my good man, and "non terrains would be equally good at trade runs" is not a good reason because all terrains still have negotiate and L9 engines making them superior at trade runs. Keeping things the same just because "that's the way it's always been" is a poor excuse for anything. You have to remember we have a totally new dev team that actually cares about this game and does not look at it as just another pay check so lets not be afraid to stir things up a bit and try something new and if it doesn't work out fine, that's what testing is for.

By evening out the cargo space to be "more equal" it would lessen the advantage that a tradesman has over non-tradesman classes when it comes to running trade routes.

I do agree that the Terran Tradesman should have a bigger cargo hold than the Jenquai Seeker and the Progen Privateer, since they are a pure tradesman class not a hybrid class. I don't think that that the seeker or privateer holds should be shrunk, it would be less work to just add a few more slots to the TT hold.

[Terrell [BT]]

Traders with enough skill points to have a Lvl 9 engine are not doing Trade Runs anymore.

Besides, I'm still seeing caps on warp speed that make the value of a Lvl 9's top speed not so important (though there may be buffs that some players find attractive). In ST3 my JE (a lowly, slow, JE) was getting capped somewhere around 5.8K. With max Navigate, Lvl 8 RR+ and/or Laz and *either* a L5 Dragonflight or Halley - same speed, even though the Halley is 250 slower than the DF.

JE's aren't exactly slow, max Navigate adds 700 to your warp speed. Of the original 6 classes, they were probably 2nd or 3rd. Depending on exactly how fast a TW could go and if we were talking impulse or warp. We may only get L8 engines, but when you add L7 Navigate, you're adding enough speed to a decent L7 engine, to make it faster than some L9 engines in warp. The slow people are the Progen, since their engines are inferior to Terran engines and their ships have the most mass. I do agree though, that TT should have the largest hold. Also there should be more trade content than just trade runs, but I suspect that's a bit lower in priority than getting the game up to speed (which I suspect is the Devs first priority).

TBH if the devs want players to put points into Engine Tech, they need the warp cap as high as the game will allow, without causing problems, and they need to put some good buffs on the L8 and L9 engines. The SS8 does this. In Live having a L8 engine would also get you the ability to warp through some gravity wells. Otherwise most players don't really have a good reason to raise Engine tech beyond L5 or so.

[bondct]

i think that Je's are the fastest class... i mean if i hadda run from a hungry progen all the time... u beta believe i'ld take running seriously