Terran Scout Feedback Request

[Elrick[IS]]

All,

I am turning my eye towards to Terran Explorer (our least played class) and trying to get it fleshed out some more. This will include some race specific equipment, missions, and the like.

But before I start going in I was hoping for some feedback from the players on what they like and dislike about this class. I have seen people expresses some concerns over various elements of this class, but was hoping for something a bit more actionable.

Specifically what do you think needs to change to make this class better?
What, specifically, needs fixing?
What would make the TS and class you would look forward to playing more?

I look forward to your feedback.
El

[Terrell [BT]]

The biggest problem that the Scout has, and the Seeker has the same problem, is lack of things to bring to a raid that are both needed, and cannot be obtained elsewhere. The Scout can patch hulls, so can the TT, and the TT also has shield charging & Recharge Shields on top of that. The Scout can JS, so can the PE and JE, but the PE also has firepower, and menace, while the JE has more stealth, can blind mobs, can act as a battery bot, and can debuff plasma with PM devices better than the other 2 explorers. The Scout will need more special things to bring besides his speed, while there should be some overlap between the types of explorers (as well as Traders) but there must also be things that distinguish each race's explorer that would ensure that a raid would want to have all 3 types of explorer. Devs will need to design new things for both classes, and distribute them in such a way as to make both viable.

While Afterburn & Null Factor are unique, how often is there an environmental effect in a raid? I actually think if the effects of Null-Factor could be done with scout only devices, instead of a skill Need for an environmental protection skill is somewhat limited in game so letting the Scout just carry devices for when it's needed makes more sense. For the gravity well beating that comes with NF 5, just raise Afterburn to L7 and give it as an effect of max Afterburn. Afterburn shouldn't have been a level 5 only skill to begin with IMO, class defining skills should always be L7. If they're not, then it requres fewer tough decisions as you can max your skill with 10 points instead of 21 in 20 fewer levels. Doesn't Afterburn require group members to be in formation with the Scout for it to work on anyone other than the Scout? Not good in a raid where the explorer classes should probably freelance, given the demands of a buffer/debuffer and JSer.

For the Scout, as well as the Seeker, you're going to have to design some new effects on devices, probably a good 10 or so, and split them, between the two classes. The buff/debuff things should tend more towards the Scout, while there could be heal devices, geared more towards the Seeker. (I mention both of these classes as they're both Trader/Explorer hybrids)

There needs to be some Scout only equipment of all types. The JT and PT will need similar class only equipment. For attention between the missing classes, the PT should probably go last since he's the most capable of the three. Scouts don't have any unique equipment other than what the emulator devs added for them, and they could use plenty of it. They should have the widest device selection of any class that's not Jenquai.

Start with a Scout version of the Miner/Sculptor devices that the PE & JE use respectively. Those should be vendor devices, like the Miner & Sculptor, but should have different second buffs/third buffs. Should carry the same debuff that the miner & sculptor carry at levels 5, 6, and 9. The restriction on that device would be Explorers Only.

The Afterburn skill, the Null-factor skill, and if you replace hacking with a new skill, will all need equipment that gives buffs to those skills. This should be covered by more than one type of equipment for each skill. Since ships are supposed to be customizable to a degree, being able to pick different types of equipment to get a particular buff is a good thing.

A line or mini-line of Scout only engines that have good stats, buffs, and sigs that are lower than most Terran engines. Not as stealthy as using a Jenquai engine, but said engine should have something on it that a Scout would have reason to choose to use it over a Mercurius, Halley, or Trifid engine in at least some mining/combat situations.

A line of debuffers. L3-L9 that are Scout only that have "paint target" as their effect. This would lower the miss rate of all weapons used against the mob that has been hit with this debuff. The device could have a second buff of reduce sig at L7+.

[Kyp [LDEV]]

HOw about dropping hull patch then and replacing it with a unique skill that will supercharge the group's reactors refilling them all but burning out the Scout's reactor and maybe potentially causing damage since Reactors are the Terran weak point. Gives a major bonus, but potential risk of damage. Or perhaps dropping hacking (since most people tell me it's not all that great for the scout) and keeping hull patch, that way they can play a support class with a distinct advantage in raid.

I'd been considering something like it.

[kjeron]

Likes Ignoring Grav Wells
Likes Hull Patch
Likes Solo Hull Tanking, Unique to the Scout
Likes Instawarp (Navigate 7)

Nullfactor Field is fine as is, if everything it currently does is intended.

Afterburn is a waste right now, the only meaningful buff it provides is the increased acceleration.
My Suggestion:
T1 Superglide:[list]
[*]Self Only, 5 second duration, 3 second cooldown.
[*]50% Evasion.
[*]Increase maneuverability, speed, and acceleration per skill level.
[*]Disable skill use while active(as it does now).
[*]0 Energy cost, instead drains energy while active equal to base Engine Warp Drain. Reactor will not recharge while active.
[*]Auto-accelerates Scout, as it does currently, and breaks Scout out of Formation.
[*](Counterpart to Cloak and Powerdown)
[/list]
T2 Ramjet[list]
[*]Permanent duration on all group members in formation. Ends on anyone who leaves formation, ends on everyone if Scout leaves formation. (As nullfactor should)
[*]Increased thrust, manueverability, and acceleration per skill level for Scout.
[*]Group moves at Scouts thrust speed, maneuverability and acceleration rating. (Would require normal group movement to be set to how it was in live, where the whole group moved as slow as the slowest person.)
[*]Does not Disable other skill use.
[*]Energy Cost: Current.
[*](Negate everyone else's need for combat speed equipment in a group, still usable Solo for Constant Combat Speed buff)
[/list]
T3 Ludicrous Speed[list]
[*]Permanent duration on all group members in formation. Ends on anyone who leaves formation, ends on everyone if Scout leaves formation. (As Nullfactor should)
[*]Increase Warp Speed, Warp Charge, and Reduce Warp Cost for Scout.
[*]Group uses Scouts Warp Speed, Warp Charge, and Warp Cost values when warping, instead of their own.
[*]Does not disable other skill use.
[*]Energy Cost: Current.
[*](Negate everyone else's need for Warp Boost Equipment in a group, still usable solo for increased warp buffs)
[/list]
Raid/Mob drops, PP and JS need as well:
Possible Scout-Only equivalent to the L6 crystal devices (Stone Aegis, Crystal Force Emitter, Vibrant Power Crystal, Vibrant Barrier)
Scout-Only equivalent drop from Miguel Chavez.
Scout-Only equivalent to the L8 Enforcer's Retort and Smuggler's Recourse. Missile Launcher, Voltoi Boss loot.
Scout-Only equivalent to the L9 Prismatic Dragon Wing -OR- L9 Drone Energy/Shield Amplifier. Engine or Device, or both. Controller Loot.

Devices:[list]
[*]Nullfactor and Afterburn in their current form would have no benefit from +skill devices.
[/list]
Other Possible device line buffs:[list]
[*]Prospect Skill, Explorer-Only, no race restriction, vendor bought.
[*]Improved Jumpstart(Both the Jenquai and Progen are taught by a Terran after all), Explorer-Only, no race restriction.
[*]Improved Hacking (or its replacement), vendor bought.
[*]Improved Hull Patch (no device currently has this), vendor bought.
[*]Missile Energy Conservation, Scout-Only or Warrior-Restricted probably.
[*]Each would also need a Scout oriented secondary(L5-9) and tertiary(L9) buff, and single debuff at L5,6&9.
[/list]
The Scout already has 6 device lines: the 6 animal skins with activated deflects.
The Scout already has 3 debuffer's available to them, two they can use solo, the Salamander, Gorgon, and Satyr, I don't think they need a 4th. Though the Satyr could have its other buffs switched from beams to missiles, since its a terran only device.

[efialtis]

Playing a Terran Scout for some time now i'll add my 2 cents.

Nullfactor, HP, Afterburn are nice skills for the Scout and i think they should be kept. Hacking should be replaced since usually hunting groups already include an Enforcer, if only for the rally buffs, who already has the skill.

Since we are trying for skills that play to the races strengths what about an activated skill that extends the weapon range of all group members, regardless of race, to that of the Scout and maybe even add a little to it. That would may even give an excuse to use the Sniper ML.

Make it so that it works only for the mob targeted by the Scout or that has a limited duration and works on all nearby targets or continually drains the reactor of the Scout at an increased rate (already a race weak point). The possibilities could be discussed by the Devs who know first hand the limitations of the game design.

Another idea for a TS skills could be an EMP pulse of sorts that disables all nearby enemies for a limited duration (like a stun) but leaves the Scout vulnerable or incapacitated for a short time. This could be a much needed breath in a prolonged fight or raid. Just food for thought.

As an explorer class the Scout should have an advantage of stealth over the other Terran classes. Towards that end some TS only devices and gear would be nice too.

And please HP should be usable regardless of the state on the rest of the Scouts skills

[Amethyst]

I like Will's suggestions. Love Hull Patch, NullFactor, Instawarp

Please do not remove Hull Patch as this is one of the best features of the TS. You can lick your wounds after a poproid or MOB. You cannot truly tank big mobs but you can certainly retreat and try again.

I'd like to see TS specific equipment.

If Hacking stays I'd like to see it tweaked so you can do more - individually choose scanblind, stop weapons, bust shields, sap energy, etc. Make it a full skill point skill. Make some devices or buffs that make hacking more of a certainty. Make the hack cycle longer? Its useless trying to hack for just 5secs of weapon downtime.

I'd like to see a TS only debuffer for plas/chem or even perhaps an impact with a new missile type or two?
ML-X17 Arachnid L7-9 - Impact only, +MLrange, +hack +mining range
Device Piledriver's Great Wallop -Impact and -sig

If you replace Hacking then perhaps a stealth mode - perhaps not full cloak but maybe better sig reduction. However most of us know how to get down to zero sig anyway, but it would reduce the need to fit devices/mods.

I'd like to see a Telescopium-like device for scan boost. Perhaps not quite as good as the Telescopium.

I'd like to see a device that extends the mining distance past 2.5k.

[Terrell [BT]]

The Scout version of the Sculptor/Miner device could have Fast Tractor Beam as it's second buff, since the Loony's Special Gizmoblatsit is supposed to be restricted from Terrans. It's 3rd buff at L9 could be one of the following.[list=1]
[*]Increase Speed
[*]Reduce Signature
[*]Reduce Warp Cost
[*]Something new that has yet to be invented.
[/list]
I do like the idea of a stealth skill, like Illusion for the Scout, in lieu of Hacking. It'd primarily be a defensive skill, but perhaps like combat cloak the level 5 could provide some sort offensive bonus, and unlike cloak, L7 could offer some small offensive bonus to group.

Allow afterburn to apply to any group member within a certain distance when it was activated, if it cannot do so already.

BTW, my argument in my first post was not intended to remove Afterburn or Hull-Patch. Only that HP was also offered on a class that's a better healer, and that Afterburn should be a L7 skill and work outside of formation since in a multiple group raid explorers would be JSing people not in their group as well as debuffing.

[Amethyst]

Can anyone confirm whether Afterburn actually reduces hits taken (as its supposed to). With the messy way the skills do/don't work together I just leave NullFactor on and use Hull Patch. It would be nice if some defensive skill actually worked!?

[Ryle [N7R]]

"T3 Ludicrous Speed"

lold, hard

[Terrell [BT]]

[quote name='Kyp' timestamp='1327932494' post='52713']
HOw about dropping hull patch then and replacing it with a unique skill that will supercharge the group's reactors refilling them all but burning out the Scout's reactor and maybe potentially causing damage since Reactors are the Terran weak point. Gives a major bonus, but potential risk of damage. Or perhaps dropping hacking (since most people tell me it's not all that great for the scout) and keeping hull patch, that way they can play a support class with a distinct advantage in raid.

I'd been considering something like it.
[/quote]

Jenquai Seekers already can supercharge your reactor. L7 Reactor Optimization gives increase to both cap (25%) & recharge (20%). In addition all Jenquai can boost your reactor's recharge rate with the longer duration buff of the Blood of the Dragon device, as well as the short term (10 seconds) boost from the Cygnus reactors. The JE also can directly feed reactor power to any group member with a line of devices. The Power Augmenter line of JE only devices also can be used to improve reactor cap. Shield Leech also can convert enemy shield energy into group reactor energy.

Edit: Since both the Scout & Seeker need significant attention to become needed in a raid, perhaps the Terran & Jenquai teams should work together on both classes. That way both classes get much needed love, and neither is left out in the cold. Edited January 31, 2012 by Terrell

[Kenu [CDEV]]

or I could just stalk this topic from afar...

and the JS primarily needs an attack skill to make combat more interesting
and maybe change reactor optimization to actually be worth it at the lower levels.
some equipment primarily for the JS is in development
I also plan on switching out projectile weapon skill for missile weapon skill because I feel it would be more useful/I want to make a jenquai missile launcher that isn't awful

as far as TS improvements so they're more effective in raids, maybe a skill that causes a mob to miss the TS at a high rate, giving it a little bit more durability when it needs to jumpstart someone? We have to keep in mind there's only a few slots for skills so if we made a new TS skill we might have to remove one of the others

[Kyp [LDEV]]

Kinda like what Kenu said, TS gear is a given, and is coming just not yet. When i said supercharge your reactor I'm talking along the lines of self-destruct of a sort that intentionally (potentially?) damages the reactor and allows them to refill everyone else to a degree all in one shot. It would be one of those things that would by necessity need a longer cooldown but would save the party in a tense situation. That's sorta what I was intending, rather than a simple boost.

The Scout is the only Terran I allow to even do anything out of the ordinary with the reactor, it would stand to reason with their storyline (as it comes out) for them to be able to attempt dangerous maneuvers that could aid everyone, or could simply fizzle and cause damage, or perhaps a mixture of the two as appropriate.

[Terrell [BT]]

[quote name='Kenu' timestamp='1327969822' post='52768']
or I could just stalk this topic from afar...

and the JS primarily needs an attack skill to make combat more interesting
and maybe change reactor optimization to actually be worth it at the lower levels.
some equipment primarily for the JS is in development
I also plan on switching out projectile weapon skill for missile weapon skill because I feel it would be more useful/I want to make a jenquai missile launcher that isn't awful
[/quote]

Those are good. On equipment perhaps JT and Scout could get some loving from the Good Earth Trading Company, since they have influence in both factions. Sharim, Hyperia, and GETCo could do a little collaboration, on some items to kind of shore up the classes. The Scout could get a few reactors, devices (with harder to find buffs for a Terran), and lower profile engines from the Sharim, while the Seeker gets some new shields (lower level), devices (with harder to find buffs for a Jenquai), Between them both could get new device based buffs/debuffs both equip & activated. The companies could also work together on both classes secondary weapons. The Scout getting some beams from Sharim (plus Sharim learning to make plasma ones) while the JT gets some new MLs from GETCo.

Edit: There also are more Jenquai usable buffs for MLs than PLs, which is funny considering that PLs are our secondary weapon. Probably because most PL buffs are designed by Progen, which means they're Jenquai restricted. When it comes to secondary weapons, more in race support would make them better. Edited January 31, 2012 by Terrell

[Terrell [BT]]

[quote name='Kyp' timestamp='1327970427' post='52771']
Kinda like what Kenu said, TS gear is a given, and is coming just not yet. W[b]hen i said supercharge your reactor I'm talking along the lines of self-destruct of a sort that intentionally (potentially?) damages the reactor and allows them to refill everyone else to a degree all in one shot.[/b] It would be one of those things that would by necessity need a longer cooldown but would save the party in a tense situation. That's sorta what I was intending, rather than a simple boost.

The Scout is the only Terran I allow to even do anything out of the ordinary with the reactor, it would stand to reason with their storyline (as it comes out) for them to be able to attempt dangerous maneuvers that could aid everyone, or could simply fizzle and cause damage, or perhaps a mixture of the two as appropriate.
[/quote]

L5 and L7 Shield Leech on the JE does that, without disabling the ship or damaging equipment (unless the JE gets shot down by angry mobs). If it's working properly L5 Shield Leech gives a shot of reactor energy to all group members within 1Km by taking shields from one mob. L7 does the same thing and draws energy from multiple mob's shields. The only issues are the range of the sharing, and the resultant aggro.

[Terrell [BT]]

Kenu, if the JT gets an attack skill, will it be something new?

[Terrell [BT]]

Scout versions of the PE/JE rewards given by the Mars Construction Project, when it comes into game. More things comparable to the MCP for explorers, but with different requirements & rewards.

[Dalgot]

This might be a little over the top ...how about a skill that would in effect be a reverse summon ie: target a mob,activate and the mob is cast-off a certain distance ?I would think this would be a good skill in solo or raid if you think about it .

just my thought.

[efialtis]

There is already fold space that does that, I don't really see any usefulness in adding it to another class or something.

[Dalgot]

Fold Space moves the toon, I'm talking about a skill that would move the Mob.
For example you or your group start in on a mob or group of mobs,more are attracted to the fight slightly overwhelming you,you activate the skill and are able to rid yourself of the excess mob/mobs that are overwhelming you or your group.

[Terrell [BT]]

[quote name='poppa' timestamp='1328674677' post='53309']
Fold Space moves the toon, I'm talking about a skill that would move the Mob.
For example you or your group start in on a mob or group of mobs,more are attracted to the fight slightly overwhelming you,you activate the skill and are able to rid yourself of the excess mob/mobs that are overwhelming you or your group.
[/quote]

Level 3 Fold Space teleports enemy, L5 teleports friend. L3 will teleport the enemy away from your ship in the direction you're facing.

[Dalgot]

Sorry for the confusion ....The thread was started about the Terran Scout and that was who I was talking about for the skill I suggested not for the JT.

[Terrell [BT]]

[quote name='poppa' timestamp='1329188765' post='53680']
Sorry for the confusion ....The thread was started about the Terran Scout and that was who I was talking about for the skill I suggested not for the JT.
[/quote]

Understood. We were pointing out that the JE/JW/JT can already do what you're proposing giving to the Scout, because the Fold Space skill can be used to teleport enemies away from ship with the L3 version. One can even direct which way you push the mob by pointing your ship in the direction you want the mob teleported.

[Sotikia]

i know each race is specific to a certain type of weapon but as everyone of these post state...EXPLORER.....and as an explorer i find new worlds and races and learn as much as i can from them which includes there beam weapon tech and reactor and shields and so on and so fourth......i do agree hacking is more of a filler skill for lack of a better idea..even as an explorer weapons are limited but they do have deffensive mechanisums like the Nuatalis from 20000 leagues below the sea when the kraken latched onto them they released an electrical surge shocking the kraken into letting them go so an AOE EMP that shut down ships for some many seconds but dained ur reactor to use would be nice a skill i would like to maybe see is with there insane speed in Ramming....a super fast short burst at the enemy that might be cool or a speed transfer that increases ur missle fire rate heck the PS's have repulsor skill

[Statyomota]

After playing a scout for a bit, would like to see a critical target skill their dps should be less than an enforcer but more than a trader. Also a stealth skill that would allow there sig to be very small would be helpful.

[Terrell [BT]]

Scouts are
[quote name='Statyomota' timestamp='1335637054' post='57142']
After playing a scout for a bit, would like to see a critical target skill their dps should be less than an enforcer but more than a trader. Also a stealth skill that would allow there sig to be very small would be helpful.
[/quote]

Scout should actually have less dps than a TT. In the original documents the scout's weapon device configuration is 3 weapons 6 devices, like the JE. For each race DPS should go Warrior > Trader > Explorer. The Scout is a Terran Explorer. It's unlikely that the Scout will get the critical targeting skill, that will likely remain only with the classes with a warrior component TW, PW, PT, PE, & JW.

I do agree that they should have some type of skill for hiding or avoiding conflict, and said skill should be a L7 skill whose effectiveness is somewhere between Cloak and Powerdown. (I think it should be called Illusion and be raised by EL not CL)

Kyp mentioned development on Scout equipment, hopefully we'll see some new effects for them since they'll need to have utility comparable to the JE to be really useful, but with enough differences that it's necessary to have them around.