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Kill steal reminder


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" Players may not engage in Kill Stealing"


goto rule 11 in the "players and donators" section of [url="http://www.net-7.org/Net_7_Entertainment_Code_of_Conduct_v5.1.pdf"]My link[/url]

2 warriors in 24 hours have done that to my poor je. one says he was camping there...w/e's other flew in cause i accidently posted he was alive. but i had its hitpoints down 20% so not like he missed that hitpoints were missing.

anywayz..lets try being polite...i would of killed it(eventually)..lol
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I sometimes do this by accident. I fly in from a long distance at the same speed as my missiles, debuff and POW - only to realize someone else is attacking. Even if I break off the missiles are incoming. I will not attack if the MOB is already engaged by someone.

Anyhow - good to point out kill-stealing doesnt have a place here. Lets have some respect for each other.
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[quote name='Amethyst' timestamp='1320980195' post='48375']
I sometimes do this by accident. I fly in from a long distance at the same speed as my missiles, debuff and POW - only to realize someone else is attacking. Even if I break off the missiles are incoming. I will not attack if the MOB is already engaged by someone.

Anyhow - good to point out kill-stealing doesnt have a place here. Lets have some respect for each other.
[/quote]

As long as there are different weapon types with different attack ranges, this can easily occur. The best one can do is break off your attack and hope the the original attacker does enough damage to be awarded the kill. Failing that, send a msg to that person and tell them they can have the loot.

BTW, there are still players that think it is just competition and okay (might makes right). I do not subscribe to this attitude. Show some class.

As far as camping goes, if you've been at a spot for an extended period, trying for a special drop, be fair at let others take a turn.
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When using multible accounts I have also come to realize that the hitpoints of a certain mob does not necessarily update for the 2nd party right away. This only makes it harder to avoid "kill stealing". I'm sure we are so few and friendly that this shouldn't happen too often.
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For the sake of discussion.....

If we were to totally immerse ourselves in Earth and Beyond as a Full
fledge RPG, some of the Rules I would have to disagree with.
I know that these rule are in place to keep peace and to free up GM's from not being a Police officer, Judge and Executioner, But lack of some of these rules could make the game just a little more exciting.

[u]Intentional KILL STEALING is not one of them.. DON'T kill-steal...don't do it.[/u]

"[b]Competitive Information[/b]
Illegal practices of obtaining competitive information are absolutely prohibited. This includes, but is not limited to:
 Corporate or Organizational Espionage
 Seeking confidential information in a manner that violates a contractual or otherwise binding obligation or commitment.
 Any form of questionable intelligence gathering"

Doesn't it sound a little exciting knowing that there may be a spy in the ranks, or that you are the spy.
This may also keep those pesky Larger guilds on their toes.
Maybe a Mission or quest could be added some how, some where by an NPC like Tsu or some Chevez (spelling) would be cool.

Like: "Fly to NAV..Target "Vonbon NPC"...Target Vonbon's Target....Destroy/kill target...Kill steal Loot... Go back to Tsu.. Recieve "Distinguished Medal of Dishonor"

If everybody knew, if it were instilled into their minds that this stuff may happen to improve the game experience, it may also become acceptable to all.
What is the saying "Keep your enemies close keep your Friends closer" or visa versa.

[b]But No player Kill stealing...[/b]
Phorlaug..
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The old "I was camping here first" don't fly folks. ESPECIALLY when its a factioning area, leveling area etc. and not named mobs. If they was there before you and clearing small mobs to get a boss/named mob to spawn MAYBE the "I was here first" might hold, IF they start on that boss/named before others do, if they do, and you kill it out from them after they nicked it...THATS a KS.

Many is the time I have experienced/seen PW/PP shield inverting smack dab in middle glenn chavez depot with no remorse to KSing someone else there, or a fast reloaded JD..well any high lvl fighter for that matter, even when someone like a low lvl ML user stands on top of there intended mob they still KS it. All they would have to do is what I do, move off center from the mob spawn point with a high sig and let what mobs come to me may, leaving the other side of spawn point for other players to kill as they may, and my fast kill rate not KS what they intend, its only curtious after all.

If you wouldn't like it done to you...don't do it to others, simple way to play. When I've cuaght others doing that crap when I or others are trying to faction/level, I ask them nicely not to continue, if they persist I warn them that I will return in kind what they are doing, if they still persist I return with my PP or PW or whatever toon will accomplish what I need, and do exactly what they did to me/others until they either leave or desist.
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KSing does [b]not [/b]exist in this EMU/Game.

If the Devs want to change the basic design, where the player/group that does the highest % of damage gets credit, then they need to change the game code on the server side. Adding an item to some post is not going to effect the way I play or the way most players play. Neither is posting your opinion of how you think the game works.

in Live and currently in the EMU the game design works like this:
Player 1 attacks mob
Player 2 attacks mob
Whichever player does 51% damage gets the kill and loot credit. It doesn't matter who was camping it or who shot it first.

I def do not want to see this change. Whoever does the most damage gets the kill. If you are complaining or feel you are being KS'd bring some friends or level up to get higher damage/better weapons.
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In dare I say it WOW whoever hit it first got the kill,it workes very well and also stops players accidently taking a kill.
I personaly dont like the who does most damage thing as it can lead to how it was in live with the people with the best gear takes all the boss kills and thats not right.
That all being said ive never yet come across anyone kill stealing in this game atm, if it's done, it's done by accident and everyone ive come across either takes it in turns, group up or just come back later. So don't really think it's a problem with the community as it stands.
Just my own opinion.
Pest :lol:
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The first hit design actually makes KSing worse. Almost every other MMO uses this design and the griefing, KSing, etc, that comes from it is awful. WoW currently doesn't really have this problem since the majority of bosses are in instances. However if you ever played the game back when there was competition for mobs, outside of instances, you saw how bad that design can be. Ever play a hunter camping a spirit beast?

At least with the % of damage done design, when another player attacks the same mob you have attacked, there is a chance of winning or you can bring friends to counter that player. With first hit you can have a single Jen hold a mob/spot indefinitely with almost zero chance of overtaking them. This gets much worse with one player being able to run mutiple accounts. In Live, at least on Galileo, there were competitions between guilds and groups to see who could get credit for a kill which is actually kind of fun and a nifty way for players to try to see what class, ammo type, weapon type, play style, does the most damage. With first hit design this all goes away.

It is also important to note that Westwood tried the 'first hit' gets credit for for the killdesign for a short time in beta/live. It did not go well and there were way more ways to abuse the system and players did abuse it just because they could. Westwood finally decided that the only equitable solution, that actually put the power in players hands, was to set kill credit to most damage done. Asshats will always be asshats but at least with the current system you have a fighting chance.
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And yet even with the 51% win-not-a-KS model EA/WW acknowledged there was KSing. They put it under the "griefing" heading and forbade it when it was abused too much, it was handled in a petition format and GM first warned player to desist, then had progressive measures to NOT exclude a outright ban. The instances of escalated punishment were very few..most took a verbal warning as enough, but there WERE those that pushed it and got all way to ban.

If you don't believe me on this issue, try remembering the things that surrounded RD base and Oni Comminication event. Remember when select guilds "owned" the RD base? That it was on a 24 hr timer got abused by bigger guilds, and shut out others from experiencing content. For more than 30 days one guild "owned" the RD base and Devs finally had to issue a change in TOS effecting it and other things. They gave server wide warnings that it was going to be actively monitored and any guild that attempted to KS another after having owned it for more than 7days was a direct violation of TOS and would be progressivly disaplined, some tards pushed it and got banned for 7 days, did it again and got accounts blocked.

ODC event, after it was activated and the event started it was possible for another group to move in and KS/loot. This after the initiators spend millions of creds and time looting for parts and builds to get the key to event. I was in the guild that got ripped off that way by a sister guild we thought we could trust. After multiple complainis and flames and roster shake ups over the whole fiasco..after a slew of tickets over it..Devs once agian did a server side announcement that such behavior was EXPRESSLY forbidden and violations were grounds for straight to ban no verbal needed punishment, and again tards tested it to their detriment.

Becuase of those 2 events and other problems a complete overhaul of loot rights and permissions was coded to forstall problems with existing content and future planned events.

So, there IS KSing. But what others call KSing in its current state, is what others would call being --rude-- i.e. asshatery. If you see someone else killing something before you unleash a barrage, and then you unlease anyway..you are a asshat. If you someone that has been consistantly cleaning out trash mobs for a named/boss to spawn and you swoop in and kill the mob after they have started on it...you are a asshat. And by current game morals a KSer.
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[quote name='Crichton' timestamp='1321399857' post='48551']
The first hit design actually makes KSing worse. Almost every other MMO uses this design and the griefing, KSing, etc, that comes from it is awful. WoW currently doesn't really have this problem since the majority of bosses are in instances. However if you ever played the game back when there was competition for mobs, outside of instances, you saw how bad that design can be. Ever play a hunter camping a spirit beast?

At least with the % of damage done design, when another player attacks the same mob you have attacked, there is a chance of winning or you can bring friends to counter that player. With first hit you can have a single Jen hold a mob/spot indefinitely with almost zero chance of overtaking them. This gets much worse with one player being able to run mutiple accounts. In Live, at least on Galileo, there were competitions between guilds and groups to see who could get credit for a kill which is actually kind of fun and a nifty way for players to try to see what class, ammo type, weapon type, play style, does the most damage. With first hit design this all goes away.

It is also important to note that Westwood tried the 'first hit' gets credit for for the killdesign for a short time in beta/live. It did not go well and there were way more ways to abuse the system and players did abuse it just because they could. Westwood finally decided that the only equitable solution, that actually put the power in players hands, was to set kill credit to most damage done. Asshats will always be asshats but at least with the current system you have a fighting chance.
[/quote]
I have to disagree 100%.
How does a jen hold a spot when everyones guns fire right away? you just have to be close enough.
Your point on doing the most damage race is wrong. If a cl30 player is taking down a lvl35 boss for eg it takes him a while to kill because his weapons are at the right level but if a 150 swoops in and shoots it's all over in 1 hit, how is that fair?
My experience with the 1st hit thing was it worked just fine and allowed me to finish quests etc on wow even when I had tards sit there just killing the quest npc just to stop others completing quests as they had nothing better to do other than try and spoil the game.
But this is just my experience and don't feel theres a problem ingame as it is now.
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  • 4 weeks later...
As soon as you target a mob you can check it's damage status. If it already has damage and is engaged by another player you can deselect and stop firing. If you continue to fire at that point, it's not just an accident. As a last resort you can PM the other player and offer them the loot at least. It won't make up for the lost combat xp but will lessen the hard feelings.

With so few players on at any given time, it should be easy to move on and find another area to hunt.

BTW there are still some players that feel it's ok to out-damage under-powered players and ks. We can only hope those players return to Eve and it's cutthroat play style.
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CPWings,

Don't bother with replying to posts by this member as we found out he was just using the forums to spam and increase his number of posts so he could vote for the Advocate Poll on another of his accounts. He's been banned.

Cheers,
J
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I accidentally tried to ks a guildie the other day. I attacked a mob that he was attacking but the damage did not show until right before my first volley hit, and I had it targeted for a good 5 seconds + (he was being a sneaky jd and cloaked so I did not see him). As my first salvo was about to hit his damage suddenly appeared, as soon as I saw some one else damage it I stopped firing. Now if I had been a TE then maybe I would have ks'ed him.


Some of this could be purely accidental due to damage not registering to the second attacker soon enough, while on the other hand there are those that believe they own whatever game they play, think they have the right to do whatever they want and think it is funny to ks some one weaker. What ever the type I am sure us that have played MMO games since have seen their fair share of these types. I have also seen this dual boxing as I alt tab between accounts it can take a bit for damage from the other char to show sometimes.


1st hit in most recent mmo games was implemented to avoid this, while a decent fix it can be abused. I have to admit that 1st hit in enb could be easily exploited for boss mobs and would be an epic fail.

In live the 51% rule was exploited (such as when my guild had the warder down to around 80% and a group of jds came in and out killed us). As for the emulator the 51% rule seems best, as many of the ksing issues could be damage lag. Of course there are always the those that believe power over weakness gets the kill and if they persist they will see for themselves how the rules apply.

Even in the emulator raid mobs are being owend by the power guilds, I have yet to see the warder on arduinne alive or even its corpse. I was told when I started back when I asked if it were in game and was told good luck that it dies as fast as it spawns just like live. That is the gripe I have with timed mobs +/- a few mins/hours doesn't help with spawn camping vs totally random spawns.

Rift had the best system imo, where named spawns for quests had a short respawn time (and the only reward was from doing the quest). Only true bosses in the outside world were zone event raids and you get pug'ed when getting close to the mobs and the rest of the bosses were instanced and once you did the raid you were on a timer to be able to do it again. You could go back in but if the raid was complete there wasn't a single mob in the instance unless it had been left. Then there were the one time instances for quests, once done you couldn't go back. I know very little if any of this could be added to enb, but if there does come a time when the devs make their own game they could take a few of these ideas into consideration.
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