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remove ripping of ores from components?


Tyran

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[quote name='rolo' timestamp='1314046801' post='45061']
I know that we have the facility for a roving NPC to purchase items from players and only sell what he has purchased. I think these are currently for fixed prices but it may be possible to tweak this so he could sell fo a price specified by the player. I would envision something like this.

Player - Hi Bob. I want to sell my Phaser4.
Bob - Well I'l give you 50 Credits for it.
Player - Nah. I want to sell it for more.
Bob - How Much.
Player - 100 Credits.
Bob - I can try and sell it for you but it will cost you 10 credits.
Player - OK that's fine.

Player then pays 10 credits and the Phaser4 gets transfered to Bob's invetory with a price of 100 Credits against it.

Bob can market the item for say a fortnight and if not sold will withdraw it from sale.

To recover the item or the credit if sold the player would need to start a conversation with bob again.

I believe the above is technically feasible however I would not expect it to be implemented before Beta, probably not before live.

Rolo.

PS. I agree with the maximum stack size. Maybe max 1000 ores, 50 components and 5 items. Would also need to be a limit on what he can hold, maybe 100 items available to vendor at any one time due to the size of his hold? (Figures plucked out of thin air)
[/quote]Do I smell auction house?
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[quote name='Tyran' timestamp='1314081030' post='45093']
Do I smell auction house?
[/quote]
It does, but not quite. There price is still set by the seller, and not the buyer.

I'd much rather have fixed prices though, and get the cash directly from the vendor, and not when someone else buys my item. The buy and sell prices should be between vendor buy and sell prices. It's not an easy thing to design though. The price you get if you sell something to him has to cover the manufacturing expenses. On the other hand, he can't pay too much. If he pays more than it costs to buy the components and manufacure an item, people will exploit it too make credits. Making a profit from selling to him should be dependant on manufacturing things from ores. A large dependance on quality should also be included. A 200% item should be much more expensive than a 190% one, since the demand drops significantly for each % of quality lost. For instance, a 100% bonus could be given for a 200% item, giving twice the base price, and if you base the bonus on quality to the power of 20, it would give a 35% bonus for a 190% quality item and a 1% bonus for a 160% quality item...
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Fixed prices mean little or no competition between miners is possible.

Just look at how ammo ores fared during live, they were one of the few things that were done right. They could only be mined which meant they had a value decided by supply/demand and not a ceiling value decided by the vendor.

And to think that the field clear bonus got added to counter cherry picking, while the real reason people cherrypicked was because most ores were worthless...

This goes to show the wrong approach to fixing mining problems as field clear bonus still means I have a hold full of useless ores.
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[quote name='Tyran' timestamp='1314106174' post='45103']
Fixed prices mean little or no competition between miners is possible.

Just look at how ammo ores fared during live, they were one of the few things that were done right. They could only be mined which meant they had a value decided by supply/demand and not a ceiling value decided by the vendor.

And to think that the field clear bonus got added to counter cherry picking, while the real reason people cherrypicked was because most ores were worthless...

This goes to show the wrong approach to fixing mining problems as field clear bonus still means I have a hold full of useless ores.
[/quote]
Selling ores in as much demand as ammo ores should be no problem. With a healty population there should always be someone online willing to buy your ammo ores at a resonable price.
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I'm not sure what you mean by saying that but I did not say ammo ores are a problem at all.

If anything they are an example of competitive pricing and an open market.

So why not pass on the goodness to all ores...
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[quote name='Tyran' timestamp='1314106174' post='45103']
Fixed prices mean little or no competition between miners is possible.

Just look at how ammo ores fared during live, they were one of the few things that were done right. They could only be mined which meant they had a value decided by supply/demand and not a ceiling value decided by the vendor.

And to think that the field clear bonus got added to counter cherry picking, while the real reason people cherrypicked was because most ores were worthless...

This goes to show the wrong approach to fixing mining problems as field clear bonus still means I have a hold full of useless ores.
[/quote]

While an auction house is the best overall solution, a fixed price solution should be adequate for high volume, low cost ores which are commonly needed, such as ammo ores. The players then have the choice to ignore that system for the extremely rare, valuable ores, that are worth more than the fixed cost. The problem with the Ore Vendor implementation was that there was no way for the miners to know whether their ore was being used or not, so they would just sell valuable ores to the vendor. The idea of having a counter to show how much the vendor holds not only sets a cap for the vendor, but it also provides FEEDBACK.

If a vendor has no supply of an ore, or even a very low supply of an ore, then that's a good indication that that is a rare ore which is more valuable than the fixed cost. The player can go to the Market channel to ask what the going rate is for that ore, or even buy up the small amount of ore on the vendor to drive the cost up. (This is a typical tactic in more complex auction systems)

While there were rare ammo ores that brought a high value on live, as you say, the problem is those ores were RARE. That's what made them valuable. Common ores that could be ripped from components, or common components that could be bought from the vendors, were not traded in the Market. The Market was for rare ores used to make rare ammo, for dropped weapons, ammo that used unusual components not available from the vendors. NOBODY traded in ores for the common, low level weapons that could be bought from the vendor.

Well, no one but the guilds. But they bypassed the Market...

You point out the problem yourself. Everyone cherrypicked the high value ores that were worth millions on the Market, because the rest was worthless except to vendor. If ALL of those ores that had been mined and vendored had been put on the market for other players to use, there would have been PLENTY of supply for building components and ammo, without having to rip or even buy components.

Now, honestly it sounds like Rolo's idea is more like an auction house, where you set your own price. This is actually the most common auction type, you put up your items for sale, and if someone is will to pay your price they buy it. If someone else offers the same item for less, you lose the sale. The only example I know of the inverse is City of Heroes, which allows a bidder to place a bid for an item. The seller can then fill that order if he is willing to take that (hidden) amount or less. If you guys think that system would work better, fine, but considering that there is likely more of a supply of ores than a demand for them (except for the rare ores as noted) IMO the seller should set the price.

I will note, though, that it seems to me an auction house would be more difficult to implement. For one thing, ANY auction house system, whether buyer or seller based, must incorporate some system to transfer money to the seller while he is offline. The fixed price system allows the seller to get his money right away, as long as the vendor hasn't reached its cap, he gets his money, and the vendor is "reimbursed" later. You also don't have auctions hanging out on the system because the buyer/seller is being unreasonable with his bid. I can actually see a small, simple system being griefed by players placing lots of unreasonable bids in order to flood the system. Which is why an auction house also needs a sorting and filtering system.

Rolo's idea handles the transfer of money by having the seller come back for his item or money. I would assume the seller would have a limit on the number of items he can "store", so he doesn't just flood the NPC with worthless junk. It could also be filtered by having different NPCs handle different items, as with the vendors. And the sort by price function is available. So it's very simple, but workable.

Why exactly can't this be in a starbase? Just curious... Edited by Dragoncove
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[quote name='Knix' timestamp='1314108335' post='45105']
Selling ores in as much demand as ammo ores should be no problem. With a healty population there should always be someone online willing to buy your ammo ores at a resonable price.
[/quote]

Not really. It honestly wasn't worth anyone's time to deal in inexpensive ores or components on the Market. As I said, usually you joined a guild for that.
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I found that mysterious ore vendor again. It's Gawain Modainas, in Adriel Mining Station, Adriel Prime, Proxima Centauri. He even says that he sells ores, but there is nothing listed in his vendor window. I have not yet checked if his buy price for ores is unusual, but I will probably check and see.

I'm fairly certain he will not just sell ore like the vendor on live, but I am kind of curious about what he's doing there, since this is a new sector.
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[quote name='Dragoncove' timestamp='1314132542' post='45114']
Not really. It honestly wasn't worth anyone's time to deal in inexpensive ores or components on the Market. As I said, usually you joined a guild for that.
[/quote]
Precisely, so only extreme capitalists would cry over having to sell those at a fixed price. I was referring to the rare expensive ores.
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[quote name='Terrell' timestamp='1314040639' post='45054']
I'm not sure which post you're responding to so I'll ask:

Is it possible at all to set up a vendor that only sells what players bring him?
[/quote]

As this post was passed up - It has been tinkered with, yes.
Will it be in-game ?, not for me to answer.
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[quote name='Evermore' timestamp='1314205244' post='45161']
As this post was passed up - It has been tinkered with, yes.
Will it be in-game ?, not for me to answer.
[/quote]

Thank you, that's interesting to know.
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[quote name='Knix' timestamp='1314171433' post='45152']
Precisely, so only extreme capitalists would cry over having to sell those at a fixed price. I was referring to the rare expensive ores.
[/quote]

Oh, I see. I did think you were talking about the common ores. But then again, that's kind of the problem. Demand for ammo is high enough that as you say, it is constant at all times of the day. Demand for ship systems is sporadic, it only comes when someone WANTS the system, and wants to buy it, and then it's very unlikely that the appropriate miners to provide the ores will be online. So a builder has to either 1) buy the ores ahead of time, and store them away in his hold, 2) buy the ores ahead of time, build the components, and store THEM away in his hold, or 3) buy the components from the vendor. The third option is the only one that allows you to get the components you need at a moment's notice.

On top of that, you have the same problem with systems that you have with ammo. You have only a limited amount of space in your hold, therefore in order to conserve that space as much as possible it is best to hold onto only what you absolutely NEED at a moment's notice. That is, the components which cannot be bought from the vendors. Components which can be bought from the vendors are not usually built from ores because that space is needed for those that are. (And BTW, this pretty much means that components are not ripped to build common components. They are ripped to build the components that can't be bought. So it's still the rare, expensive portion of the market)

An auction house or similar interface would help because not only does it allow trade with a larger base of players, it also serves a storage function. The items are stored away until needed, and don't take up space for anyone. While the concept of a market should be that there should always be a request very soon after an item is put up for sale, meaning sales should be quick, the item can be held long enough that an item like a weapon or shield would get sold, even though that might take longer than ammo. Edited by Dragoncove
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[quote name='Dragoncove' timestamp='1314221562' post='45166']
Oh, I see. I did think you were talking about the common ores. But then again, that's kind of the problem. Demand for ammo is high enough that as you say, it is constant at all times of the day. Demand for ship systems is sporadic, it only comes when someone WANTS the system, and wants to buy it, and then it's very unlikely that the appropriate miners to provide the ores will be online. So a builder has to either 1) buy the ores ahead of time, and store them away in his hold, 2) buy the ores ahead of time, build the components, and store THEM away in his hold, or 3) buy the components from the vendor. The third option is the only one that allows you to get the components you need at a moment's notice.

On top of that, you have the same problem with systems that you have with ammo. You have only a limited amount of space in your hold, therefore in order to conserve that space as much as possible it is best to hold onto only what you absolutely NEED at a moment's notice. That is, the components which cannot be bought from the vendors. Components which can be bought from the vendors are not usually built from ores because that space is needed for those that are. (And BTW, this pretty much means that components are not ripped to build common components. They are ripped to build the components that can't be bought. So it's still the rare, expensive portion of the market)

An auction house or similar interface would help because not only does it allow trade with a larger base of players, it also serves a storage function. The items are stored away until needed, and don't take up space for anyone. While the concept of a market should be that there should always be a request very soon after an item is put up for sale, meaning sales should be quick, the item can be held long enough that an item like a weapon or shield would get sold, even though that might take longer than ammo.
[/quote]
Ok, I see your point now... Both types of vendors would be useful. If I had to choose though, personally I would still rather have the vendor that gives me credits up front when I sell him something that others can buy than being able to set my own price and have to go back for the money...
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After my experience trying to round up the ores for 1 component, I think forcing people to always go to the miners to build components would kill crafting as a whole. It took me 3 hours to round up 2 ores (not 2 kinds of ores, 2 ores total LOL) to make anathor galaxy mounts for my ruby disrupter.

Before removing the ability to rip components some organized way of selling and buying ores needs to be introduced, or you could just do something halfway and cheat, IE having a vendor who sells ores for quadruple the price that ores get bought for. Saying that people can just get ores from miners is good in theory, but without a way to get the ores to the component builders are you are doing is killing component building. Not everyone likes mining just like not everyone likes building stuff because its such a pain, and i know of a lot of people who pretty much only build ammo.

I think the best way of dealing with ripping ores from components to up the demand for mined ores is to set up a market or a bazaar or something. Just some way in the game to let the server in some way middleman the buying and selling of ores could fix a lot of these problems and make building components easier and cheaper as well as getting the miners more cash for certain ores. (because honestly it has to be cheaper to buy the ores then to buy the components rip them and only use half the ores.)

But until something is devised, i hate to say that the best way to deal with it is not to mess with it. Currently Miners can make money selling ores to NPc'S and component builders can usually easily obtain the ores to make components by mostly buying the exact component they need or ripping another component. There is currently a gap between the 2 groups and hopefully one day that gap will be bridged but i don't see it happening without a new game play feature to handle the trading of ores. Forcing people to go to miners for ores will only cause every builder to have a miner class or quit building components.
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After my experience trying to round up the ores for 1 component, I think forcing people to always go to the miners to build components would kill crafting as a whole. It took me 3 hours to round up 2 ores (not 2 kinds of ores, 2 ores total LOL) to make anathor galaxy mounts for my ruby disrupter.

Before removing the ability to rip components some organized way of selling and buying ores needs to be introduced, or you could just do something halfway and cheat, IE having a vendor who sells ores for quadruple the price that ores get bought for. Saying that people can just get ores from miners is good in theory, but without a way to get the ores to the component builders are you are doing is killing component building. Not everyone likes mining just like not everyone likes building stuff because its such a pain, and i know of a lot of people who pretty much only build ammo.

I think the best way of dealing with ripping ores from components to up the demand for mined ores is to set up a market or a bazaar or something. Just some way in the game to let the server in some way middleman the buying and selling of ores could fix a lot of these problems and make building components easier and cheaper as well as getting the miners more cash for certain ores. (because honestly it has to be cheaper to buy the ores then to buy the components rip them and only use half the ores.)

But until something is devised, i hate to say that the best way to deal with it is not to mess with it. Currently Miners can make money selling ores to NPc'S and component builders can usually easily obtain the ores to make components by mostly buying the exact component they need or ripping another component. There is currently a gap between the 2 groups and hopefully one day that gap will be bridged but i don't see it happening without a new game play feature to handle the trading of ores. Forcing people to go to miners for ores will only cause every builder to have a miner class or quit building components.
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[quote name='Knix' timestamp='1314258515' post='45207']
Ok, I see your point now... Both types of vendors would be useful. If I had to choose though, personally I would still rather have the vendor that gives me credits up front when I sell him something that others can buy than being able to set my own price and have to go back for the money...
[/quote]

Well, since a dev said the auction idea might be possible, but didn't mention about the "increment ores sold to the vendor" idea, it's possible the former idea is easier to implement than the latter with the current state of the game engine. Or even, the idea to sell for a fixed price couldn't be implemented at all.

Just making a vendor that sells and buys ore for the same price won't work, that was tried on live, and the problem is the supply isn't tied to the demand. Yes, the miners get more money than if they just vendor it, but there's no way for them to know how valuable the ore really is. Unless the rare ores are just left off the vendors, at which time you just end up limiting the trade to those ores.

An auction, at least, gives you the option to put the ores up for a really low price, (but higher than vendoring it) which can then be "turned over" by a speculator who buys your ores and resells them.
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[quote name='barachius' timestamp='1314296787' post='45219']
After my experience trying to round up the ores for 1 component, I think forcing people to always go to the miners to build components would kill crafting as a whole. It took me 3 hours to round up 2 ores (not 2 kinds of ores, 2 ores total LOL) to make anathor galaxy mounts for my ruby disrupter.[/quote]

I assume you mean on the Market, not by going out with an alt and mining. Although maybe you do. :)

Keep in mind, though, what I said before. The idea of an auction house/vendor isn't just that the product is available, but that it is stored when needed. Some other miner ALREADY mined that ore three hours ago, and put it up on the auction house for you to buy. It's available to you right now.

This could be true of the Market Channel, if miners actually bothered to store the ore you want and sell it. But if it is not valuable enough to complete with the ores that are valuable, then they will not. There's not enough space in your Vault to store EVERYTHING you ever mine.

[quote]IE having a vendor who sells ores for quadruple the price that ores get bought for. [/quote]

This was tried in live, albeit buying and selling at the same price. The problem is that the vendor has an infinite supply, no matter how many miners sell to him. So while it solves the problem of miners having to make do with the small change they get from vendoring ores, it doesn't do anything to GET those ores into the hands of the builders. The builders are using ore generated by the vendor, instead.

To make matters worse, the miners don't even KNOW what is valuable. So they don't have the option of going to a particular field to search for an ore than they have seen a shortage of. They just mine whatever and get exactly the same profit for it. While the builders can markup their items as much as the market will let them get away with.

[quote]Not everyone likes mining just like not everyone likes building stuff because its such a pain, and i know of a lot of people who pretty much only build ammo.[/quote]

Actually, I don't think this is a problem. Keep in mind that while not everyone likes to mine, there ARE plenty of people who like mining, and they tend to mine LOTS of ores. These are all vendored because it's not worth the time to trade them. But not because they aren't valuable, but because it's not worth taking time away from mining to SELL them on the Market. You don't stop mining just to sell a few Iron Ore for 10 credits apiece to some Trader who wants to build some level 1 ammo, unless you're doing it out of the goodness of your heart.

The problem isn't that it is a problem for builders to have to go to miners. The problem isn't that there isn't enough supply of ores. The problem is that the MARKET CHANNEL can't handle the traffic. It is too slow, too limited, and too cumbersome. An Auction House works for MMOs because it allows high volume traffic of goods from one player to another with minimal time invested for either buyer or seller, allowing them both to quickly return to gathering and building resources. Edited by Dragoncove
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[quote name='Dragoncove' timestamp='1314298662' post='45221']
Yes, the miners get more money than if they just vendor it, but there's no way for them to know how valuable the ore really is. Unless the rare ores are just left off the vendors, at which time you just end up limiting the trade to those ores.
[/quote]
This could be easily solved by showing how much of an ore the vendor has. I don't know how easy it would be to show that in the client. Perhaps the field usually showing how much you yourself has could be hacked to show how large a supply the vendor has instead. You could even adjust the price according to how large of a supply the vendor has. He could pay more/charge more for ores in low supply.
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[quote name='Dragoncove' timestamp='1314299338' post='45222']
I assume you mean on the Market, not by going out with an alt and mining. Although maybe you do. :)

[/quote]

Mining when you need something will never work. No matter how much ore fields they put in the game, people will always want stuff faster than someone can mine it. I store up to at least one stack of all the ore I mine before I start vendoring. As said before though , one miner can't store all ores, so I use three. On that has level 1 and 2 ores, one that has level 3 to 5 ores and one that has level 6 to 9 ores. If you don't like leveling explorers, this may be a pain, since to really make it efficient, they have to be able to refine the ores they store as well. For me it works great because I want one JE for wh:ing on each of my accounts.

[quote name='Dragoncove' timestamp='1314299338' post='45222']
... The problem is that the vendor has an infinite supply, no matter how many miners sell to him. So while it solves the problem of miners having to make do with the small change they get from vendoring ores, it doesn't do anything to GET those ores into the hands of the builders. The builders are using ore generated by the vendor, instead.[/quote]

Yepp. This would only work if the vendor couldn't sell more than what he buys form players. If he has an infinite supply, he just kills the usefulness of mining for ores altogether.
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[quote name='Dragoncove' timestamp='1314299338' post='45222']
The problem isn't that it is a problem for builders to have to go to miners. The problem isn't that there isn't enough supply of ores. The problem is that the MARKET CHANNEL can't handle the traffic. It is too slow, too limited, and too cumbersome. An Auction House works for MMOs because it allows high volume traffic of goods from one player to another with minimal time invested for either buyer or seller, allowing them both to quickly return to gathering and building resources.
[/quote]The travel time is not a problem if there is no other way. Just look at PM equipment, you cannot buy 200% equipment from the vendor so you will make time to seek out builders.

Also, time spent away from mining will naturally be factored into the asking price. Self regulating system ftw...
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[quote name='Knix' timestamp='1314347765' post='45252']
This could be easily solved by showing how much of an ore the vendor has. I don't know how easy it would be to show that in the client. Perhaps the field usually showing how much you yourself has could be hacked to show how large a supply the vendor has instead. You could even adjust the price according to how large of a supply the vendor has. He could pay more/charge more for ores in low supply.
[/quote]

Yep, that would be my suggestion.

A true auction house would be more flexible, though, and it looks like, more likely.
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[quote name='Tyran' timestamp='1314348068' post='45254']
The travel time is not a problem if there is no other way. Just look at PM equipment, you cannot buy 200% equipment from the vendor so you will make time to seek out builders.[/quote]

I'm not talking about travel time. I'm talking about the time to get a response from the market. Response time is adequate for ship's systems, because you only need a new system every 18 levels. Ammo is so commonly needed, though, that you are required to stock up on a large amount of ammo so you don't keep going back to the Market. All of that ammo takes up space.

In addition, the supply is too limited. There are only a limited number of players on at any given time. And all of those players have limited space as well. So you are required to ask for only those popular items that builders are likely to have. If you make a request for an unusual item, meaning one that is not the "absolute best" according to player consensus, then it will take longer to get a response from a builder that is willing and able to build that item, and likely he will have to gather the components and other supplies needed to build it.

This does not even count low level equipment, for which the components are not commonly kept in the Vault either. And since these components are not being stored, they are not being built, which means the ores needed to build them are not being bought. Thus there is no demand since the Market is unable to keep up with it. Yes, the ores used to build common components COULD be sold on the Market. But there would be no where to put them.

[quote]Also, time spent away from mining will naturally be factored into the asking price. Self regulating system ftw...
[/quote]

Typically it is not time spent away from mining which factors into the price of ores, but the time spent away from mining OTHER ORES. In order to make your time competitive, you must price common and low level ores the same as high level and rare ores. Which prices your common ores right out of the market.

I can assure you that if I go onto the Market Channel, and request 10 Iron Ore, Sand, and Hydrogen, I will be laughed out of the channel. Or at the least, I will be asked what I need them for, and redirected to the New Players channel, for players more likely to have mined that ore. NO ONE will have it, and it will be the very rare player that would actually be kind enough to go out and mine it for me, just because he wants to help another player.

And if I continue to ask for this on a daily basis, the Market Channel WILL begin to question my actions. Maybe not to the point of accusing me of trolling, but eventually I will simply be ignored. Edited by Dragoncove
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Let me add a little more detail:

What we have here is a conflict between two profit strategies. The primary profit strategy on the Market Channel is low volume, high profit per sale. The inventory of items is kept low, the supply of each kept low, and a large markup is placed on each item. As the item is sold, the markup pays for the amount of time that it takes the item to get sold, and so you have a constant profit over time.

The other strategy, though, is high volume, low profit per sale. Obviously, this is an extremely successful strategy, it is the idea behind every supermarket and fast food franchise. The inventory of items is HIGH, and you keep a large supply, with a very low markup on each to encourage sale. As long as demand meets the supply, your sales volume is high, and thus even though the individual sales are low profit, your profit over time matches the profit above.

The Market Channel cannot handle this strategy because 1) it cannot handle the traffic, 2) it cannot store the inventory until it gets sold, 3) it cannot support a low markup without a larger volume of suppliers. As long as only high level miners are supplying the Market, only high level ores can be sold. And as long as the miners are using the same strategy to sell rare ores and common ores, they have to use the same markup.

An auction house allows the second strategy to be used in an MMO. It does not PREVENT the first strategy from being used, there is ALWAYS the option to go to a global channel in an MMO to make low volume sales at extremely high markup. I think it should be understood, though, that the capability of the builders to rip components for ores is intended to support the high volume, low markup trade. This allows the builders to competitively price their sales of low level and common items to the players, providing a service to new players and making levelling easier for the whole community. If the builders were required to reimburse miners for gathering these high volume, low profit ores, they would be have to pass the markup to their customers.

It is better, in fact, for the LOW LEVEL miners to sell the ores that they have to mine anyway, in order to produce the goods that the LOW LEVEL customers need. Let the high level miners mine what they are already mining. Which is why, really, the auction house is meant to benefit the low level miners, rather than the builders.
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Something else to add as an idea...

Would it be possible institute a system similar to Eve, where a builder can put what ores he wants into a market system at whatever price he is willing to pay? Thus miner 49er's could look at that whether the builder is online or not, and still get the guy his ores?

Either that, or work on something along side the Net-7 DB that would have the same purpose? That way we could also track what is always in demand and look for those ores. This way also would negate any client limitations. :)

On this subject, my vote is to keep the ability to strip ores from comps in place. If you think about what a builder already has to pay to do this between buying the comp to strip and the actual strip, he's paying a mint for higher level comps that contain the rarer ores.

Thanks for reading.... :)

-Overt
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[quote name='Overtkill' timestamp='1314380450' post='45264']
Would it be possible institute a system similar to Eve, where a builder can put what ores he wants into a market system at whatever price he is willing to pay? Thus miner 49er's could look at that whether the builder is online or not, and still get the guy his ores?[/quote]

It looks like a dev has suggested this is possible, but in a very limited form. It would have to be outside in space, that is, an NPC ship, and it wouldn't have a filtering system. Likely what you would end up with is an auction ship for ore, one for components, another for weapons and systems, likely separated by level, too. Basically, like the vendors, but they take items you post up to them at the price you give them.

[quote]Either that, or work on something along side the Net-7 DB that would have the same purpose? That way we could also track what is always in demand and look for those ores. This way also would negate any client limitations. :)[/quote]

I've thought about that, but I'm not sure the client could support trade via a web site. The application would basically have to turn the item over to another application (the web page) to hold it, and then it would be transferred back into the application for the buyer to pick up. It might be managed via the drop system, but sounds really complicated. Plus, it most likely would be exploitable.

[quote]On this subject, my vote is to keep the ability to strip ores from comps in place. If you think about what a builder already has to pay to do this between buying the comp to strip and the actual strip, he's paying a mint for higher level comps that contain the rarer ores.

Thanks for reading.... :)

-Overt
[/quote]

I need to double check, but I think I calculated that component ripped ores are worth about 9.5 times the vendor price. That does include the terminal cost, though, so that would increase it. However, the Trader has to take the time to buy the components, and perform the dismantle, and there is a chance of failure. On live, the price that was often quoted was 10 times the vendor price. Of course "vendor price" often depended on faction, and so your vendor price might not be mine. :D

If you're actually going to compete with vendor price on ammo, the ores need to be even lower than that, maybe 4.5 times the vendor. That's to cover the Trader's cost in generating the ammo, and the components. Of course, 200% ammo is worth more than vendor ammo, so probably if you priced it out, the total cost (if you paid 10 times the vendor cost for the ore) would be double for the ammo. (Which makes sense for 200% quality)

Since as I mentioned that old Ore Vendor asked 8.75 times for the ore, it was a LITTLE better than ripping it from components, but it only covered the first three levels of ore anyway.
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