Faction tweaks.

[Tienbau]

Based on feedback from many players the faction system has been changed slightly so it's closer to live, but also more generous.

Firstly, you can only get RD faction now for killing your own faction (no more pilgrim farming at the Mourning Circle - unless you're a JD).

Secondly, the amount of faction you gain from killing RD enemies (chavez, collegia, centuriata & mordana) is proportional to their level. So you get tons more faction for bagging a boss of that type.

I'm not sure how group faction sharing should work. Clearly the person who the kill is credited to should get the full faction award, but how should the faction be spread among the rest of the group? On a 50% basis maybe? At the moment the group don't get any faction sharing.

[Terrell [BT]]

Based on feedback from many players the faction system has been changed slightly so it's closer to live, but also more generous.

Firstly, you can only get RD faction now for killing your own faction (no more pilgrim farming at the Mourning Circle - unless you're a JD).

Secondly, the amount of faction you gain from killing RD enemies (chavez, collegia, centuriata & mordana) is proportional to their level. So you get tons more faction for bagging a boss of that type.

I'm not sure how group faction sharing should work. Clearly the person who the kill is credited to should get the full faction award, but how should the faction be spread among the rest of the group? On a 50% basis maybe? At the moment the group don't get any faction sharing.

I think for the rest of the group, they must have fired upon the mob, debuffed the mob, or buffed/healed a player that's already attacking the mob, after said player has done something to draw aggro from the mob.

[Tienbau]

I think for the rest of the group, they must have fired upon the mob, debuffed the mob, or buffed/healed a player that's already attacking the mob, after said player has done something to draw aggro from the mob.

I like that system - it does make sense that you have to participate directly in the MOB's demise to get the faction hit.

[Rossdie [BT]]

I agree with Terrell, I believe thats how it worked in live also.

[Suricata79[IS]]

In live it used to be if you were on the mobs aggro table, this meant that evev if you didn't do anything in the fight, but the mob aggrod on you, then you would take a faction hit. This is how people ended exploiting the Chavez in Freya for RD faction. I don't recall how they fixed it, it may well of been if a player was on the aggro list and performed an aggressive action or helped a player doing an aggressive action. I'm pretty sure they explained how it worked in the patch notes, I'll try and dig though them when I get home.

[bondct]

why does it have to be made harder... has anyone done a time analysis of how long it takes to get to L150, then how long it takes to max out skill points, then how long it takes to get geared up, then how long it takes to get faction with the magority of the groups? I know I have not done this... but somehow, I am recalling that this took a considerable amount of time as is...

and not to mention the adding of new content which was always a diversion... hell, I can recall it taking us a considerable amount of time just to figure out how to kill the controller... now I have not hit 150 here yet... but if the FB and troller etc are solo acts because of the small player base, then fine... but are we taking other actions based on this?

and we cant imho base all these numbers on the mega hardcorse 6 hours a night 7 days a week person that maxed out in 3 months, again imo...

if it takes a year at 3-5 hours a night 4-5 nights a week (which is about 60 days played over the course of 1 full year?) to accomplish all the above goals... then isnt that long enough? isnt that the point where new content comes in? or is the goal an eve like game where it takes a lifetime to level...

there are people in our guild that have cooperative eve accounts and they take turns playing it and runing the corp or whatever they do (I dont play eve)... and keep in mind we are not even talking about alts, those numbers are per toon... now if there are people that have hacks or whatever and can max level in 3-4 days (I read that somewhere on this forum) and then they get bored well is the goal to cater to them?

outta steam bbl

Edited May 25, 2010 by Avani

[r8rsfans75]

+1 to Avani

Have to agree, some of us that can only get in 10 to 15 hours a week (because of life or other things going on), takes forever just to get close to 150. I've been playing ST4 now for almost 3 months and am not quite to OL80. Merlin seems to have it figured out, he has like 8 toons over lvl 100 so obviously he has the time to play, but he uses time helping out others instead of complaining about how easy is it to level up.

Just my opinion.

[ghent96]

Avani is a great player with good experience and views to lend, and usually it seems we agree on a lot of things debated here on the forums. In this case, I think I have to disagree.

Faction gains and leveling should take a long time. The goal in EnB cannot simply be to get to L150, to max out, as quickly as possible so a player can enjoy the full content of the game. There should be enjoyable content at every level of the game, for all players... otherwise the emulator fails, much in the same way that some argued original EnB was lacking. L150 maxed (meaning all skills maxed) players shouldn't be common. They should be rare. The uber L9 loot only items shouldn't be common either. Think about how this emulator is very different from Live, how the economy is different. There's no subscriptions. That removes a huge factor or motivation from the L150 race that existed in Live.

The more we emphasize "the grind" in the emulator, I think the more we will fail. Slowing down or speeding up leveling emphasizes the grind, either way. Too slow and players get frustrated at not leveling. Too fast and players max out and get bored. Right in the middle might seem to be perfect, except... if content is lacking. Tons of enjoyable content at all levels can totally eliminate "the grind" and slow leveling. Players will focus more on rewards, tangible like items or intangible like fun, at mid-levels of gameplay, rather than focusing on how to max out.

Faction gain in Live was almost too easy, in a way, and without consequence. I was busy with a full-time job and g/f, but got RD faction (as JW) in maybe a month or 2, just camping the Mourning Circle or Xipe, whenever it was convenient. If I had really focused, it would have taken less time. After I earned my green RD faction, I still had 3/4 to nearly full Shinwa faction. It was great, sure, but never seemed right. Forsaking and killing one's own should have terrible consequences. In the emulator, we can do a LOT more with factions than in Live. We can make every faction accessible, and attach great rewards to building up a certain faction - items, ships, routes, pvp...

[Yuritau]

I'm with Ghent on this one.

[Terrell [BT]]

I like how that jobs from non playable factions have been introduced. I think that's a good thing, to have more than one way to raise faction. I think that the ways that raise faction at a cost to another faction should be significantly faster, but I also think it should be possible to raise them, more slowly, by doing things that don't anger other factions (or balancing your faction adjustments, by doing things that repair faction, with the mobs you're farming ot gain faction elsewhere). In Live the Chavez were non-factioned mobs, though it was announced that they would get their own faction, killing Chavez in Live was a way to bring up RD without harming other factions. It was the slowest way to do so, as you had to kill 2 Chavez for +1 RD but there were no negative consequences for doing so. Another option, was to kill PW factioned mobs, and do jobs from the Centuriata and Sabine to work off the faction loss (as well as whatever missions Theodoric Cassel had for PT faction). It's slower to plan ahead to keep your Progen factions up, than to just kill things blindly, but I think that the players should have the option to do it either way.

Edited May 26, 2010 by Terrell

[seekeronos]

L150 maxed (meaning all skills maxed) players shouldn't be common. They should be rare...

...Think about how this emulator is very different from Live, how the economy is different. There's no subscriptions. That removes a huge factor or motivation from the L150 race that existed in Live.

The more we emphasize "the grind" in the emulator, I think the more we will fail.

+5

L150 Maxed is a good way to refer to those toons (functionally, they'd have to be around L289 for a fully maxed, all skills capped PW...)

And I think that there's only one or two of those on the server now, and even in Live™ they were about less than 1%of the server population.

More common are the L150+ (above 150, but not necessarily completely maxed, say like a functionally L180 toon... most important skills capped, but things like "Befriend" not quite capped yet... lol)

[bondct]

was it really less than 1% of the server pop that was 150max... I feel like everyone that was a raider in Static was 150max (including most of their alts) and damn near close to that on faction as well... somehow I woulda have guessed that the gen pop had better stats... guess I was wrong...

[r8rsfans75]

I was only on live for a few months before sunset, but yes I do seem to remember there being a lot of 150 players around (or close to 150). Mostly PW from what I remember every 3rd comment in the Market channel was someone looking for comps to build lvl 9 PL ammo.

Thats just what I remember, could be wrong, that was a long time ago and my mind is getting rusty. What were we talking about again?

[Tienbau]

the changes are about making it easier.

Group faction means giving the rest of the group the faction not just the person who did the most damage.

Faction multipliers are about giving the group more faction for bigger mobs.

[seekeronos]

the changes are about making it easier.

Group faction means giving the rest of the group the faction not just the person who did the most damage.

Faction multipliers are about giving the group more faction for bigger mobs.

I'm -Seeker-, and I approve this message.

[seekeronos]

One thing about group-share of faction:

What would be the best way of handling it?

Currently, a L60 drone in BBW gives +24 RD faction and (presumably) -48 Chavez/+X Bogeril/+X V'rix (or currently "Unknown"...)

Would a two-person party killing this mob get +24 RD faction, or would they only get +12 per player? Or would faction be apportioned by some factor of how much "hate" was held by the various players (where "hate" is a measure of enmity drawn by the player against the mob as a factor of how effectively and how often a player either dealt damage, or healed a damage dealer, buffed a damage dealer or healer, or debuffed a mob, or a combination of any of these activities)

Given the math involved, there probably would have to be some rounding of numbers, especially if a formula is used to break down the minutiae of who did what and how much of what to terminate the mob.

Also, at a certain level, where killing X mob that generates less than 1 point of faction per player would need to be addressed.

The EASIEST thing to do would be to credit all players in the party who drew hate from the mob with equal and full faction credit, i.e.

Player A, Player B, and Player C are grouped and kill the L60 drone:

Players A, B, and C get +24 RD faction each.

Edited May 27, 2010 by -Seeker-

[Willbonney]

I seem to remember item turn-ins for live. Starting at a certain level of faction (-3000 I think for Red Dragon) you could start turning in items. Like for Red Dragon it was the Chavez Herbal Remedies (thus why a lot farmed Chavez for RD).

Pretty sure the Bogeril had some sort of turn-in item as well, just don't remember what it was.

And Turn-ins only gained faction, you didn't lose faction with any group (enemy or not).

Another thing I remember from live, is you lost faction on the Kill of the faction mob, BUT you gained faction on both the kill, and then the looting of, a faction mob. I remember this clearly as someone who just killed with a BOT program took longer then someone who was killing and opening his corpses.

Edited May 31, 2010 by Werewolf

[Tienbau]

faction standings which don't appear as bars in your PDA won't change with kills. They stay the same.

[Statyomota]

The npc in the lobby at qar took your rum turn ins for a faction boost think it was a good size chunk he would say yo ho ho and a bottle of rum when you gave them to him.

[Jamosite]

I'm -Seeker-, and I approve this message.

I found a way to get max RD faction, kill two chavez then enjoy the herbal remedy. do this 3 times a day for one week and you will be in!

all kidding aside, there are two types of Red Dragons that sponsor jobs at the terminals, in most cases if you run these ( I do not know why they want you to dump trash by the way) the faction bar does not change. is this a glitch?

[Allia]

Tradeables for faction definitely need to be added back in.

'Body parts' would help your RD faction.

'Gene maps' help your sabine faction (PS).

'Mordinite' for vrix.

I believe TTs could just give DeWinter money for faction.

I'm sure there where more I'm forgetting.

I don't think in live all factions allowed trade-ables, but there was always a non killing method to increase your own faction. Would be nice if all factions had some sort of tradeable/repeatable quest for faction.