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Idea for Privateer's Dismantle Skill


Pakkrat

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Hello all,
Again, as I do my best creative thinking when I'm supposed to be doing something else, (e.g. work, chores, massage therapy, etc.), I came up with a suggestion for the Privateer Dismantle skill. Once again, I am no Developer nor am I out there to break the game with something outlandish. The idea just sorta popped in my head and I gnawed on it all day yesterday. I'll try to put some story behind this idea as well to provide some thematic justifications to this idea.

The Collegia, late to the greater SolSec markets in having to first split off from the Sabine Order in disgust and betrayal or whathaveyou, began to see that the various industries were far outstripping the Progen Republic in every venue except personal development. InfinitCorp, GETCo, Sundari, Tada-O, even Blacksun, CE3K, and Warlock had the Collegia up against a wall of monopolies in every sector. To that, the Collegia developed the Privateer ship and class of Progen determined to vanguard the Progen Republic into the markets.
With the Privateer comes the Dismantle skill. In its efforts to catch up, learn, and then sell for a profit for the betterment of the Republic, the Collegia managed to outfit the Privateer the means to discover systems, break them down, and see what makes them tick. Dismantle has seven 'dots' and is power intensive, definitely not meant to be used in combat.

Dot 1 - Increased Terminal Analyze Chance of Success. Increased Terminal Dismantle Critical Chance of Success for Components.

Dot 2 - Increased Terminal Analyze Chance of Success II. Increased Terminal Dismantle Critical Chance of Success for Weapons.

Dot 3 - Increased Terminal Analyze Chance of Success III. Increased Terminal Dismantle Critical Chance of Success for Shields.

Dot 4 - Terminal Independence: The Privateer may now Dismantle in space by activating the skill, clicking on the target system and Dismantling it with components entering the cargo hold if there is space available. (This disallows use of Terminal Overrides, but allows use of Duct Tape, Data Cubes, etc.) The process costs energy from the ship's reactor. The higher level the system, the greater the reactor drain.

Dot 5 - Increased Terminal Dismantle Critical Chance of Success for Reactors. Decreased Terminal Independence reactor cost to ship's reactor.

Dot 6 - Eureka!: The Privateer may Dismantle any system from a Terminal for its components, but will still be denied a print of anything Engines or Progen Restricted. (Terminal Overrides allowed.) Decreased Terminal Independence reactor cost to ship's reactor II.

Dot 7 - Reverse Engineering: The Privateer may now Dismantle any system in space by activating the skill on the target system, Analyzing systems built by Progen or Dismantle-only on systems that are Engines or Progen Restricted. (Disallows Terminal Overrides, but allows for Duct Tape, Data Cubes, etc.) Decreased Terminal Independence cost to ship's reactor III.


This idea for Dismantle came as an idea for Privateer' freedom from station Terminals to break down looted and manufactured systems while still on-site or while still at a raid. This would save the Privateer time and travel somewhat. It would make them a valuable asset on-location when loot is parcelled out to participants.

Story-wise, the Privateer is trying to catch the Collegia up with the megacorporations of the Terrans and the technologically advanced Jenquai, from the machine shop of his own vessel if he has to. Privateers are given marque from the Republic, (hence the term 'privateer') to hunt, loot, learn, and reverse-engineer the technologies of Progen competitors and enemies.

I am open to constructive suggestions as to how this could be improved. Again, I am not trying to break the game by some fluke in the system. The idea just sorta spontaneously came to me haphazardly. If this idea can be improved to the point that it could feasibly fit into the game, then I'd feel truly satisfied that I contributed to the race/class in some way.

On location at Arx Bursa, this is the Pakkrat.

PP 49 et al
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I would say it is overkill, sorry...

 

This would leave no room for any other trader. PP has already big advantage on reactors, compared to Jenquai (ability to analyze Jenquai only reactors etc, while JE's can not analyze/dismantle any Jenquai restricted stuff), add Aggripa on top of that...

 

This idea is no different than asking 6th weapon slot & 5th device slot for a Terran Warrior...

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The PT is short a skill, but since pretty much anyone can dismantle, I think they should get a unique combat support skill.  Probably an offensive one of some sort.  Not sure what the best choice is, but the PT currently has no skill that's unique to them, other than building Jenquai Restricted Reactors.  Also Progen & Jenquai are only forbidden from building the items that say Progen or Jenquai Restricted (respectively), Those items that say Progen Only, or Jenquai Only can be built by the opposite race, if they have sufficient skill, in the correct build.  

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SiSL...since when do PP have it overjenny on reactors? They get to anny and build PROGEN and TERRAN reactors, not jenny. Jenny get to anny and build JENQUIA and TERRAN reactors, not progen. Whats so out of parity there?

 

As to other gear, they can't anny or build progen restricted stuff, jenquai can't anny or build jenny resricted stuff...that isn't out fo parity either...hmmmm.

 

Guess I'm not seeing your complaint..oh wait..agrippa...o.k. thats OPTIONAL content added by progen Dev, JE are going to get OPTIONAL content as well, it's up to the JennyDevs to drop that in, feel free to give them your ideas so they can empliment it.

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SiSL...since when do PP have it overjenny on reactors?

Since PP added...

 

*cough* Cygnus and lower lines *cough* 

 

Most used "Jenquai only" reactor ever... PP can build that, didn't you know?

 

 

And you didnt really see the point obviously to respond to me... Over critical dismantle and analyze chance compared to rest of trader classes? 

 

What's the point... and idea that's not going to happen... 

Edited by SiSL
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actually there was a thread somewere...can't find it readily, but there was intent that the 3 races would have a terminal area of advantage..the progen were going to have a dismantle advantage...better odds of crits and rips. The jen were to get better odds of anny and the terran were to get lower costs via negotiate and increased (faster learn curve) of build quality.

 

don't know if they still intend that, if so pakk's idea isn't so far off, the trader of the progen, with his idea, would have it in the terminals that the other traders have in their respective area of the terminals.

 

And no, I didn't know the PP were getting to build the cygnus now, someone slip up there? Or did they drop it out of the jenny only category? If it was intended maybe its to offset the overwelming devices disparity towards jenny, I know that PP don't build devices, but have you ever run through the DB and seen just how much stuff is progen only and how much was jenny only? The progen in reality get for less choice when it comes to devices, reactors and engines, they do get more in shields...but then thats so progen isn't it?

 

How about weaps? Have you ever looked at how many beam choices there are at each level for jenny? Now look at how many PL choices there are at each level, I think you might be a bit suprised. When it comes to recipe gathering (and the boost to build skill and anny) who comes out ahead? The terran, they get to choose from all the terran and a good part of both the other races, next up is jenny, and progen head up the last....so you begrudge them the skill to rip a little better? Pfft thats so non-overpowering how can you measure it?

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Gallina, Draco, and Cygnus reactors are still Jenquai Only. 

 

I remember that thread as well Matt, and IMO that's a pretty fair thing to do, in terms of each race getting a slight advantage over the other two in some aspect of building.  Not sure if that's the case anymore, but as an inherent trait, that would be fine for the Progen to be better at dismantling, IMO. 

 

If that's the case, no need for a dismantle skill for the PT.  He'd already be better at it than the JT or TT.  Instead his one missing skill could be a new & unique combat skill of some sort.  Said skill should be a good skill that helps the PT both solo & in groups, is unique to the PT, and differentiates the PT from the TT & JT.

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Yes, but can be built by PP's... 

 

attachicon.gif1-2-2013 12-00-33.png

 

You know the manufacturer, right?

 

I know, see post #3.  Jenquai Only means that only Jenquai ships may equip the item.

 

For Progen Only Reactors the JT & JE can build them as well.  It's only the Progen or Jenquai Restricted items that cannot be built by the other race.  TBH I don't know why any Progen or Jenquai can make some of the other side's items, at this point in the game, since the addition of the PT ended the problem of no/few PM Progen Reactors.

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Instead of dismantle, why not something like rejuvanate equipment. It would work something like Call Forward, you would buy an overide for say 10 mil. You could use this to bring your loot only Boss drop that has lost Qt. in raids up to say 110%. Group with PP, install device, name whats to be fixed.  Just an Idea.

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I care very little about prints and analyzing in this thread. I feel that the Privateer should have an edge in chance to critically dismantle any system. I also feel that it would be cool to have terminal independence which kinda sounds like having a "chop-shop" in space, much like a Privateer or any other black market parts dealer. I don't know if the coding will allow for such.

I say this so that you know where my focus is. Analyzing and printing is tertiary in my suggestion. I feel that even if the Privateer doesn't get to build a system, he should at least be able to gut it for its components at higher success rates and chances to critical the dismantle. Try not to read too much in the Analyze section. I agree that all should be kept where they are racially.

With five weapons and four devices, the Privateer gets a extra weapon in Shield Inversion. Tack on a Sentinel's Repulsor Field from a friend and you have seven sources of doing damage. That's still less than a Warrior with the same. I don't think the Privateer needs any more combat skills given Menace.

I think this idea of mine may see improvement through your responses, pilots. And I thank you all for considering the idea. Just as well, thanks for viewing and responding.

Via satellite, this is the Pakkrat Edited by Pakkrat
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From what I read in Pakkrat's two posts, he mostly wants a skill point sink which increases the chance to get more of the components when you disassemble an item.  It does NOT necessarily increase the chance to analyze the item, which you normally need before you can disassemble.

 

At higher levels he would allow analyze and dis assembly in space and at even higher levels allow disassemble or items you cannot even analyze (you would NOT get the print).

 

I'm not sure I see a need to disassemble in space if you can't build in space, but it would be someplace to put all those skill points that you have been collecting.  :)

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Sure, there's a need to Dismantle in space. Dismantling, items you can Analyze or not, allows the Privateer to turn a system that does not stack in to a pile of components that does stack in the cargo hold. That would be worth something and be a valuable cargo ability no one else has. Doing it in space allows a group or a raid to continue without having to space unwanted systems. In that Terminal Independence is reactor intensive, the skill becomes a liability if the fighting continues.

As to the "skill point sink", I feel that if the Privateer does not receive a class-only skill, such as the idea I had (or something similar), then Progen Privateers will be able to run around with all the skills they want in the list they have to currently chose from. They will have all their skills, never needing a Call Forward, while the rest of the galaxy has to think real hard about their skill point expenditures. The Privateer will know and have points to spare. I've been playing with the Planner. The Privateer with a missing skill can purchase what he wants in his vessel and have a surplus. This in itself is a proto-exploit in that the Privateer finishes developing his career earlier than any other class.

Another $.02 from the Pakkrat. Edited by Pakkrat
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Sure, there's a need to Dismantle in space. Dismantling, items you can Analyze or not, allows the Privateer to turn a system that does not stack in to a pile of components that does stack in the cargo hold. That would be worth something and be a valuable cargo ability no one else has. Doing it in space allows a group or a raid to continue without having to space unwanted systems. In that Terminal Independence is reactor intensive, the skill becomes a liability if the fighting continues.

As to the "skill point sink", I feel that if the Privateer does not receive a class-only skill, such as the idea I had (or something similar), then Progen Privateers will be able to run around with all the skills they want in the list they have to currently chose from. They will have all their skills, never needing a Call Forward, while the rest of the galaxy has to think real hard about their skill point expenditures. The Privateer will know and have points to spare. I've been playing with the Planner. The Privateer with a missing skill can purchase what he wants in his vessel and have a surplus. This in itself is a proto-exploit in that the Privateer finishes developing his career earlier than any other class.

Another $.02 from the Pakkrat.

 

Terran Scout takes the fewest skill points total, to max everything.  The numbers are as follows

 

Scout =368

PT = 376

JT= 379

PE/TW = 397

JE/TT = 412

JW/PW = 419

 

Note that the Character Planner still shows the JT as having Self-Destruct, which is a skill she doesn't possess.  The planner also lists the TW as having Navigate, which he doesn't have.

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Each of those professions needs one 5 dot (10 points), and one 7 dot (21 point) skill. (the three EMU only classes)

 

That would bump them each 31 points, bringing scout in line with the PS, and the Traders in line with the TT.

 

The JE really needs to lose a skill to the Enforcer though (a 21 point skill, 7dot - always wondered why jennies had navigate, i bet that should be on the enforcer), to make it truly congruent (all explorers around 395, traders around 410, warriors around 420)

 

 

 

The solution becomes

 

Give Enforcer Navigate 7, which puts it in line with the other two Warrior classes at 418 Sps

 

Take a 7 point skill off of the JE and give it to the Seeker (pick one, any one will do), and give the seeker level 5 Self Destruct (that fixes the JE to 391 points, and the seeker to 410)

 

Give the scout and the privateer each two new level 5 and 7 skills to bring them to 399 and 407, respectively)

 

That would give us the following:

 

PW/JD = 419

TE = 418

TT = 412

JS = 410

PP = 407

TS = 399

PS = 397

JE = 391

What do you think?  Ill broach the subject at the next meeting.

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Each of those professions needs one 5 dot (10 points), and one 7 dot (21 point) skill. (the three EMU only classes)

 

That would bump them each 31 points, bringing scout in line with the PS, and the Traders in line with the TT.

 

The JE really needs to lose a skill to the Enforcer though (a 21 point skill, 7dot - always wondered why jennies had navigate, i bet that should be on the enforcer), to make it truly congruent (all explorers around 395, traders around 410, warriors around 420)

I think it is already intended to give TE L5 navigate.

Obviously someone already gave TE navigate :) See here ...

 

https://forum.enb-emulator.com/index.php?/tracker/issue-807-character-planner-bug-te-with-navigate-skill/

 

TE is definitely slow as a Terran (except with Ursa 9 being bugged as 5k speed instead of 4250 or Terran Advantage is slow as 4250 than 5000)

 

However Navigate is a crucial skill for JE especially about Gravity wells & shears and most high end nodes somewhat inside them as Enviromental Shield does not provide any bonuses unlike TS one... If anything extra on JE it is either Projectile or Shield Leech 

Edited by SiSL
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Yeah instead of TE taking a skill from the JE, i modified the post to say later that the JS should take one from the JE.  I know JE's skills are all very useful and unique, but honestly at the points it has, its far too high for an explorer, but thats all up for debate and so on, id love to find a solution to this 60 point gap from the bottom to the top.

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Yeah instead of TE taking a skill from the JE, i modified the post to say later that the JS should take one from the JE.  I know JE's skills are all very useful and unique, but honestly at the points it has, its far too high for an explorer, but thats all up for debate and so on, id love to find a solution to this 60 point gap from the bottom to the top.

While at it, 1 SP L135 skills overhaul can be nice :)

 

Some quests seems not triggering stuff like JE one... 

Edited by SiSL
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I don't think you need to change the original 6 classes, and only the PT has one fewer skill than everyone else.  Not counting the L1 skills of Compulsory Contemplation and Call Forward, each class, except the PT has 17 skills, when counting the "techs" as skills.  The PT only has 16.

 

Since everyone except the PT has 17 skills, one has to look at the number of weapon types each class gets, and how many skills are capped at L5.  It goes as follows:

 

PW/JW, all weapon types, and 1 skill capped at 5

TT/JE, 2 weapon types, and one skill capped at 5

TW/PE all weapon types and 3 skills capped at 5

 

If you add one L7 skill to the PT, and leave him with 3 skills capped at 5 like he currently is, he'll need the same number of skill points to max as the TW and PE.

 

For the Scout and Seeker, they have too many skills that are capped at 5.  Seeker has 4, Scout has 5.  So while they have the same number of skills as the TT and JE, as well as the same number of weapon choices, the Seeker & Scout require significantly fewer skill points to max everything.  Each 5 capped skill only costs 10 points to max, compared to 21 for each L7 skill. 

 

You could fix the Scout the following way.  Raise Afterburn from L5 to L7, Raise Null-Factor from L5 to L7.  (Class Unique skills should be L7 like they are for all other classes) Replace Hacking with a Scout unique L7 skill.  This would increase the number of skill points required to max a scout by 33, and would put the Scout at 401 total skill points.

 

You could fix the JT by picking one skill to remain at L5, and raise the remaining skills to L7. That would put her even with the JE and TT in skill point usage at 412.   (In ST3 the JT has L7 Negotiate)  Alternatively you could leave them with 2 skills at L5 and have equal skill points to the Terran Scout, with the changes I mentioned earlier.

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Actually that would be elegant solution on the JS and kind of be storylineish to boot, put JS negotiate back up to 7. Storyline, infinicorp and progen hate RD, jenny hate them the least and there is suppost to be some backdoor storyline about RD trading through the jenny. So the RD would want to have a competitive edge on infinicorp and the reason infini hates them so much, they undercutting them and interfering with their trade lanes. So RD wants better negotiators to represent them..JS.

 

About the PP, I think they need some combat utility skill, but pairing it with their trade role and the spirit of privateer...I still say like another post I had, they need to be a better looter, they increase odds on better loot drop or higher quality gear from corpse..and at higher levels increase a groups odds as well, so peep would want them along, other nonprogens seem to think PP are OP in the combat area (not really..they giving up a lot in builds to get that combat ability), so to quell them make the comabt ability not agressive.

 

Hopefully they will think up a 135 skill for everyone to match PS/JE and any left over SP inbalances can be tweeked that way over all the classes, that can be the PPs more agressive combat skill.

 

Terrel is right, TS and JS have too many L5 skill and too few L7 bounce them up to L7 and balance the SP discrepency through that.

 

About the Pakk's idea on PP being able to rip in space, don;t even know if thats doable, but I see some problems.

1.faction effecting rip odds, in space how do you figure the faction +/- buff?

2.odds, how many PP are going to rip something in space if they can't increase their odds on rips via gear abd overrides, where you going to plug in the override, if the gear is valuable why would they forgo a override?

3.costs, since terminals cost money to use, and all you are offering is reactor juice to use in space, for the low level rips, who is going to use the terminals...and the credit sink it suppost to be?

4.The uppper end of the skill, if you are going to let them rip even if they don't have the print...I can guaran--freak-n-tee that nonPP are going to go into a frothing fit over that one.

 

There are more I'm sure, but as before, the rip skill boost is suppost to be progen wide, why boost it further through skills? Go something more privateerish not chopshopish...something along the lines of "boarding" or "booty". Privateers are quasi-legal pirates, a government gives them marque to loot their enemies, allowing the government to atrite the enemy and still have the ability to denigh it's them doing it.

 

If you want chopshop in storyline, have all the traders at some level of faction have ability to use RD or Chavez illicit terminals.

Personally the only time I would dump a single SP in a dismantle skill would be after very other skill was maxxed.

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  • 2 weeks later...

In regards to the TE, wouldn't it be better to raise 2 of the 3 passive skills to lvl 7's? (Critical Targeting and Negotiate)

That way it will be more in line with the other warrior classes, rather than them having an extra skill.. 

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Yeah instead of TE taking a skill from the JE, i modified the post to say later that the JS should take one from the JE.  I know JE's skills are all very useful and unique, but honestly at the points it has, its far too high for an explorer, but thats all up for debate and so on, id love to find a solution to this 60 point gap from the bottom to the top.

 

JE has all those useful & unique skills to make up for both being fragile, and having little firepower.  They also have several useful devices to help friends & hurt opponents.  Taking away skills from the JE makes them less viable.  The TT is similar to the JE, they're not as fragile as the JE and have better weapons, but warriors they aren't.  They prove their worth by having a nearly complete set of heal skills, lacking only JS and Repair Equipment. 

 

The Scout & Seeker, are also support characters with little firepower, but they lack the level of utility that the JE has, and need work on that front, in both their L135 skill, and some new activated buffing & debuffing devices, with things that are new, useful, & unique. 

 

The Privateer, is also a support character, but has some bite with L5 critical targeting, and the same weapon & device configuration as the JW and TW.  A combat utility skill, that's new & unique is what they need, though some unique activated buffs or debuffs would further help distinguish this character.

 

All 9 classes have to have some useful and unique things to bring, though this is probably more important for the support classes than the DPS classes. 

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  • 2 weeks later...

Please don't change any of the Live classes.  Many of these 6 classes skills need to be balanced and/or enabled (compulsory contemplation I miss thee) but in Live their balance felt fine.  SP difference meant nothing. It was how useful each class was and if it had a job that it could do well in a group. The 3 new classes def need a little work though.

 

I do like the idea of giving the PP a new skill and I like the name from the original post and some of the idea behind Dismantle.....but I think using the skill, on any item that can be analyzed, should create a blueprint. In Live there were a few missions that gave a blueprint item that when it was equipped and used it gave the player that print (or maybe it was a click-able item in the inventory, I really don't recall for sure). The question I would have is if the skill should be a 1-point skill, at level 135, or if it really needs 7-points. 

 

I personally like the idea of a single point special skill more and I think that the same % chance should be used, for an item to be dismantled for a blueprint, as for it being analyzed. The devs could even add a special PP blueprint computer device to improve the chances by .55%.  I do wonder could this be done at the current analyze station or would it require a new station? Maybe a station that is only available after doing the 135 mission to unlock the skill? This could be a cool way to get new items into the game.

 

WTS blueprints: L7 Terran Advantage engine (2 mill), L9 archos PL (1 mill), L6 chimaera device (500k).

Edited by Crichton
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While discussing TE hack/biorepess and my concerns of shut down of skills, not gear, through hack, rather than biorepession. I got to reading old posts and it sent my mind onto a tangent. It caused me to revisit the missing PP skill. And it gave me an idea.

PW/PS have grav link to slow enemies from fleeing/catching up. PP don't. All Progens tend to be slow in comparison to other race/class both in warp and thrust, thats why progen developed GL. A PP not having GL, how do they slow the enemy? Thats the intersection I was at when the TE discussion hit. And out popped this idea.

Privateer conjures up "piratey" imagary, what did pirates do? They would chase down merchantmen, scouts any weaker ships and either try to get them to surrender through intimidation tactics (menace), or chase them and board them and take over with overwelming manpower. A pirate ship tended to have much more hands onship than a merchant or scout, and could throw a highly effective surge of humanity to overwelm the victim crew. When a privateer found that they had picked a too tough target to get, they relied on speed and manuverabilty to avoid a conflict, and if that didn't work then they attempted to partially incapacitate the enemy allowing them to slip away.

How to incorporate that into a PP? They don't have that GL to slow and board/ incapacitate and evade. They do have the intimidate via menace skill. So out rolls my idea for a new skill unique to PP:

Reboot:
A overwhelming electomagnetic assault on enemy that causes their hardware to have to reset. Nothing subtle like TE/TS hack, certainly shorter duration, I imagine it around 5 sec. in duration. First level of skill would be obviously force reboot of engines, with each level of skill increasing chances, possible duration, this allows PP to close the gap between fleeing mobs and pause following mobs. Other tiers would then target defensive capabilities, supressing them for very short duration, since they seem to think hack should be able to effect skills as well as gear, then reboot would suppress or disrupt any skill usage for short time. So as to not occlude TE/TS, have it only suppress enemy defensive capabilites, certainly not weapons or offensive debuffs.

The nautical equivalent would be like shooting the mast with barshot or take enemies sails, to thereby slow them, or launching grapeshot across into their gun ports or deck to cause damage or increase carnage, thereby increasing the horror factor, increasing likelyhood of surrender to stop the pain, or take out command to hamper repeling of boarders.

Kick it around, see what you think, I don't think it would be fair for a PP to get any more dmg dishing via offensive skill, they already get crit/5 weaps/menace, they are best dps trader. So Reboot don't actually increase their DPS, it just adds engagment window, and a escape mechanism that they have been lacking that other classes have.
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All Progen can reduce speed with the Burden line of debuffer devices.  I do like your idea; however, of reboot.  Sounds pretty cool, and seems to fit the class.  As a L7 skill it would also bring the PT's required number of skill points to max everything even with the PE and TW at 397.

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