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Guild Politics


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Guild Politics

Please – no. Not here. It’s different, isn’t it?

I avoided joining a guild perhaps because I have an idea that isn’t correct. My idea of a guild is one of comradery, honesty and helping one another. It isn’t to create stats.

So I avoid joining a guild because I don’t want to be involved in intrigue and competition. I figure a guild is a group of people that like helping each other.

I took a group of people to Deneb – showed them the way – helped them get tons of Big Berthas and gave whatever I garnered to them because I have them mapped. I don’t need them. I make enough credits to get what I need. After I get an engine mapped that drops there, I give that up, too. It’s the way it is, but it’s not. And I get begged to do something I swore I wouldn’t do – join a guild.

I’ve always assumed that if I need something, I have to find a way to get it myself. It’s the way I’ve lived life. But I’ve always given – always. And I’ve always paid my own way – that means if someone wants vendor price for something, they get it. If something is not feasible, they say so. If people don’t want you to loot, they don’t say, “whatever you want, bro.” (It’s sis, but who cares. And don’t worry, I’m past menopause.) And then when I realize that something I had looted was really valuable, I offered it up. Put it in a vault. vowed to never get rid of it until someone wanted it.

If I mention in a hunting group that I will pay vendor price for something, I will. If there is a reason that can’t happen, say so. But don’t get on the market channel after it’s assumed I’m not there and offer it for free to whoever wants it.

I was already hunting my buns off getting what I needed myself anyway. I should have just kept my mouth shut instead of saying something on the guild channel about needing it after I had already said so while hunting with people. My mistake – truly. I know better. I know human nature. I shouldn’t have said anything.

But maybe someone says something about helping me get something I'd like to map? No? It's what I was doing... Doesn't the street go two ways?

Finally – after dropping out of that guild, and having a little taste of what a sense of comradery could be. I find myself sitting here in tears. My God – it’s a game!

I got a taste of real hunting with people who are good at it. It was so much fun. I am in learning mode, because I didn't do any serious hunting in Live. Didn’t really do devices – none of that. And I ended up doing my best to save others’ ammo after a while, putting myself at risk – because if I die, I’m dying in a game. I resurrect in seconds. I pay a debt and go on my way. I don’t really expect people to save my butt if I put myself in harm’s way. It’s a game.

But it seems it’s not a game. It’s a myriad of personality tangles that get in the way of play. Who knew? I guess I do now.

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Camaraderie in guilds does exist. However, I know what you are talking about and your post makes me think of a recent article somewhere, describing the 2000 decade as the ME, ME, ME decade :D There are always 'some people.'

So sorry for your negative experience.

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The game imitates life and in-life experience influences gameplay too. The range can go from the all-giving-no-taking type over the lone-wolf type up to people who swindle out everything.

I never played LIVE EnB and i never played a MMO until now, so i did some experiments on my own. I even created a guild to help others but only if they need help. You see, EnB has many goals... how you reach them and how you play is up to you.

As you play, you meet people you really like, and people you never will get along with.

So basically you learn and adapt and form a "friends" group from the EnB community, with them you play and build trust. Trust is never given but earned. If you ALWAYS help for "free" or force your help on someone, thats not good or fair. Always say what you want... and try not to expect too much.

Enjoy EnB Emu and have some fun...

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yeah but the part i always hated about MMO's is the anonimity... in real life if you screw me, I most likely know who you are and where to find you and I will be right there and if you broke a law, I will bring the police and if you just screwed me I will bring a baseball bat and you have to take that into consideration...

here, real life laws and rules pretty much dont apply, and the odds of me really finding you, and then travelling to you (in which case I would be breaking the real life law and you just were a jerk in a video game) are not great... so people feel they can be aholes online... you dont get into a fight online cuz no one wins cuz everyone has ballz the size of water tanks...

not that rl is perfect either... but it does operate at a higher level socially and I cant wait for the day that online at least catches up with rl...

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i've been fairly active since stress test 3 started and had avoided getting back to my first love before that, this was always my favorite even after trying many others, but in retrospect it was the comunity that made it so good in conjunction with a game mechanic that didn't require massive ammounts of camping. since coming back i've been largely dissapointed due to the comunity but i've maintained the faith because i believe that the game mechanic encourages membership that is simmilar to what i expect. most of the new people that came to the game that never played live are the antithesis of what i want to find but stick with it, there are some good people from back in the day and the whole new generation can't be worthless.

i refuse to maintain an illusion that all my favorite people from live will ever come back, though they are what made it fantastic and priceless. though i'm now part of an guild started by a beta+ that found it neccessary to cheat with his extra powers i'll be looking for an guild full of people from my original server that have a simmilar value system to mine (basically we'll be a crochity old bunch that sets high standards for everyone). atm with the promise of regular wipes no one will be held to any decent standard of morality as it is too easy to start anew, but once we go live people will have to live with their reputations and will be forced by the community to live within some sort of regulated behavior system.

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but in retrospect it was the comunity that made it so good in conjunction with a game mechanic that didn't require massive ammounts of camping.

what part of this game didnt require massive amounts of camping? I can recall camping being so massive that we did it in shifts and had the real life phone numbers of people so we could call them when a spawn popped... I guess you're right... thats not camping... that is something way past the definition of camping...

I can recall maxing out energy efficiency on my JE so I could camp the controllor spawn almost indefinitely while never breaking cloak... taking shifts patrolling vrix spawns for there weapons, mining endlessely waiting for the warder to spawn, etc...

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not that rl is perfect either... but it does operate at a higher level socially and I cant wait for the day that online at least catches up with rl...

After my reaction to being Guilded, I was thinking... And then I read your comment above. Not that it was inappropriate in any way, but that it is an illusion. I don't care if anyone tries to take advantage of me in this game. It happens once, I learn about them and I don’t do it again.

But RL working on a higher social order is a façade. I am sensitive to text-behavior because I write. Words are my life. And I schooled in how to write because of a decade in which I worked diligently to bring knowledge to some professional communities (and a legal community) in order to right multiple wrongs involving our most delicate of treasures.

Then – after I uncovered hundreds and hundreds of pages of documents, and news articles, and medical records and on and on… I found out they always knew. They had always known about some of the things that had happened. They had hidden and sheltered the actions to keep things “quiet.” I had thought the reason they didn’t care was because they didn’t know. But not only did they know, they condoned the actions with their verbal silence and their eventual written silence. Then a nationwide fiasco emerged about another community and I learned even more.

The biggest purveyor of secrecy was this community’s DA and his minions.

The damage was immeasurable. Many lives were destroyed and further destroyed because they found out that not only did not they matter then, they never mattered at all.

So I have learned – the hard way – that people are never to be trusted until it can be proven otherwise. And if it seems a bit paranoid to respond this way, well – you haven’t seen what I’ve seen.

And I did start out in a Guild with a blanket trust. It was only when the written word clued me in to nuances that I became a bit confused. Then I remembered how it is in RL and had forgotten how people can be.

Now – this other type of thing can’t happen in here with our moderators. Online can be far safer than real life, sad to say….

But the callousness and deviousness I ran up against in real life certainly exists here. I think Guilds inadvertently create a way to bring it out. They create little corners in which people gather.

All in all – this was a valuable and fascinating experience on its own. Can this destroy my life? No… phhhffft. It was just a shock to the system to be reminded we are not space cadets, we are real people living in a real world bringing all our baggage into a virtual reality – including me.

And I am not sitting here tearful any more, I am sitting here with a huge smile on my face. Fascinating circumstances… I know that may seem odd, but not if you write it doesn’t. You know exactly what I mean.

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*gives Toreava a BIG hug* !!! ;)

Sorry to see your first guild experience had to be like that :angry:

Although I am sure there are guilds that achieve quite the opposite of your experience. Back in live I was guildleader for over a year. One thing I've learned in my guild, leader or not, is how to treat people.

It mostly comes down to respecting each other and having a good set of morals.

For some reason lots (yes, i said lots) of people seem to lack these morals and values.

Positive thing about this is that you get to learn who are the good and the bad (the hard way) and you remain with the people you really can get along with.

For the other bungholes that remain there's always the "ignore" button.

Just my 2 cts

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After my reaction to being Guilded, I was thinking... And then I read your comment above. Not that it was inappropriate in any way, but that it is an illusion. I don't care if anyone tries to take advantage of me in this game. It happens once, I learn about them and I don’t do it again.

But RL working on a higher social order is a façade. I am sensitive to text-behavior because I write. Words are my life. And I schooled in how to write because of a decade in which I worked diligently to bring knowledge to some professional communities (and a legal community) in order to right multiple wrongs involving our most delicate of treasures.

Then – after I uncovered hundreds and hundreds of pages of documents, and news articles, and medical records and on and on… I found out they always knew. They had always known about some of the things that had happened. They had hidden and sheltered the actions to keep things “quiet.” I had thought the reason they didn’t care was because they didn’t know. But not only did they know, they condoned the actions with their verbal silence and their eventual written silence. Then a nationwide fiasco emerged about another community and I learned even more.

The biggest purveyor of secrecy was this community’s DA and his minions.

The damage was immeasurable. Many lives were destroyed and further destroyed because they found out that not only did not they matter then, they never mattered at all.

So I have learned – the hard way – that people are never to be trusted until it can be proven otherwise. And if it seems a bit paranoid to respond this way, well – you haven’t seen what I’ve seen.

And I did start out in a Guild with a blanket trust. It was only when the written word clued me in to nuances that I became a bit confused. Then I remembered how it is in RL and had forgotten how people can be.

Now – this other type of thing can’t happen in here with our moderators. Online can be far safer than real life, sad to say….

But the callousness and deviousness I ran up against in real life certainly exists here. I think Guilds inadvertently create a way to bring it out. They create little corners in which people gather.

All in all – this was a valuable and fascinating experience on its own. Can this destroy my life? No… phhhffft. It was just a shock to the system to be reminded we are not space cadets, we are real people living in a real world bringing all our baggage into a virtual reality – including me.

And I am not sitting here tearful any more, I am sitting here with a huge smile on my face. Fascinating circumstances… I know that may seem odd, but not if you write it doesn’t. You know exactly what I mean.

*big hug from Garfield*

I know exactly what you mean. But we people learn from our mistakes. Thats why were here after so many wars, epidemics and tragedy. We learn as we live.

I agree that some players are rude or downright hostile. But EnB Emu is not a free-to-abuse zone. There are rules, everyone of us must accept before connecting to the server and playing. If abuse occurs, document it with pressing the roll key (take a screen picture). Then contact a GM.

You are not defenseless!

Here is the EnB code of conduct:

https://enb-emulator.com/index.php?/forum-5/announcement-5-net-7-entertainment-earth-beyond-emulator-code-of-conduct/

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I guess the first impression is a lasting one. I played on live back in the day, and at the time, I had never played MMO's in my life. As the above poster puts it, it is like wives apparently. I was "in between wives" for lack of a better term. I was as down in the dumps as any person could be going thru a divorce and literally had little no money at that time. A guy at work came in and spoke of "EnB" and I didnt really listen to him, as I never wanted to be considered a geek. A couple of days goes by, and he comes in to work again, saying "We can play togther at the same time" and had bought a copy of the game for me to try out. We messed around together in game for a couple of hours for a couple of days and of course, he quit playing.

I had gotten to where I had learned barely anything about how to play, I was alone in game, and understood NOTHING about game mechanics. I decided that I would give it a couple hours more time and that would be the end of it. And something happened....I was in ABB or somewhere trivial for this story, but siting at a nav point, having no idea what I was suppose to doing for a mission. It was time, I was literally moving the mouse to exit game, never to return to this cold world, and I got /t from a random stranger.

They had navigated to the same nav point as me, "passing thru" so to speak, and was just "friendly". They asked what I was doing, and I said that I had a mission that I had no idea what I was doing, they grouped me, and solved my issue in like 5 minutes. After that, apparently, their guild was doing tours or hunting....but I remember that I stayed up way too late that night, and was very sleepy the next day at work.

Turns out the next night, I got a whisper as soon as I logged in from them, and they asked if I would be interested in joining a guild, that I seemed to fit in from the previous nights fun. I looked up their site, and tried to understand what a guild actually was. I joined, and that next year period of time, went from one of the lowly noob players, to one of ranking in the guild, to leading fights and having a family again(remember I was going thru divorce)

Sunset came and went, I carried a few of the guildies to other games, but never lost total contact with even more of the others. They were true friends, and redefined how I am. Today, 5-6 years later since that started, I am more helpful, patient and happy with RL matters simply due to how I play my game. And most all of it was by "fate", "accident", or whatever you want to call it.

We have come back together over the last week or so, we are back in this game again, not as many of us that left, but the closest of us are together again, and I am glad for it. I have alot of time invested in other games, and have well geared characters in 2 of them, but this is home for me.

So, as random as your bad situation was, mine actually worked out for the best...and I am glad to be back.

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As a (now retired) leader of guilds in other games, I can make the following observations.

1. Humans have monkey-brains that demonstrate that we did indeed evolve from lower animals and most of us turn a blind spot to these hideous behaviors in ourselves.

2. There are higher-order behaviors that are much more noble than the aforementioned, and with (substantial) effort one can choose from and act upon these instead.

3. This choice extends into all realms of human interaction including gaming.

4. As a guild leader it was my responsibility to monitor my people--and especially myself--and ensure that the monkey-brain is kept in check. It was especially critical to monitor my immediate subordinates and choose them to be "example-setters".

5. In gaming, people are what matters--not the avatars, not loot, not prestige. If I am causing pain or grief or frustration to another person, there is no difference between doing it in a game and doing it in real life and I am just as responsible to ensure that doesn't happen.

6. Those who do not share these understandings cannot be corrected and must, instead, be avoided like the plague because monkey-see monkey-do--especially when monkey gets pissed off at someone acting like an asshole.

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Guilds are like wives!

Sometimes you gotta go through a couple before ya find the right one :D

LOL Guess I was lucky, havent had a lick of problems in here, but I guess thats one of the advantages of smaller groups.

In EVE however, the "CEO" or guild leader, Honestly belived everything in the corp was his, ended up having to start a new corp without him and transfer all the assets over. Was abit of a stink, 1/2 of the community belived his stories and called us thievs.

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As long as there is differences there will be competition and thus politics. Guild politics in EnB should be much less than that of say WoW, or EVE, but none the less it's impossible to eliminate politics completely. The best thing we can do to combat it is to think about what makes us all the same instead of focusing on what makes us different.

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Politics are ok… it’s the drama that gets things messed up. I don’t view them as the same, but often go hand in hand, sadly. And then when they spill over into (excuse the term) RL, things can get really disgusting, I’ve seen it to that end. But that is far beyond the norm, and it really takes leadership talent to deal with the occasional drama queen of the norm, while not giving them what they want; a big poop to stink up the air. However, many that try to start guilds just don’t have that talent, and so you get uneasy situations etc. I’ve found this more so true of normal guilds, as opposed to RP or even PvP guilds, yet they all still have their fair share of stink from time to time.

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