Getting Closer to LIVE™: What do YOU think about the latest patch?

[seekeronos]

Just curious to see what other people think of the latest changes in AI, loot tables, and newly added content... and public feeling about how close we are / should be to replicating EnB LIVE™.

[Mimir[IS]]

Does it matter? Do the polls really reflect the general player populations’ desires? Do these polls only reflect what the 10% or so that actually come to the forums desire? I would feel much better about polls if they came from the Devs or GMs, at least that way we could at least think some changes or what we suggest will get some consideration.

[Heirkusan]

Does it matter? Do the polls really reflect the general player populations’ desires? Do these polls only reflect what the 10% or so that actually come to the forums desire? I would feel much better about polls if they came from the Devs or GMs, at least that way we could at least think some changes or what we suggest will get some consideration.

Don't refer to GMs, They mostly do testing/tickets overall from my understanding. Good Luck getting a Dev to do a poll about 'content' they are usually very quiet about it, then just go "Okay, I'm bored lets upload this content." then a week or 2 later they end of up nerfing it due to much, made it very hard due to low player base. Or just to many bugs (such a engine not coming back on from ten-gu)

My favorite bug this patch. Some of the buffs from devices/shields/reactors work only 50/50. I casted Steingard on my TT earlier today, it managed to fail and no buff.

Edit: I believe at most of time content wise I see is 'bug' fixes coming up. Or Bykahee or w/e posting of incoming mission updates to Progen.

Edited July 6, 2010 by Heirku

[Mimir[IS]]

Don't refer to GMs, They mostly do testing/tickets overall from my understanding. Good Luck getting a Dev to do a poll about 'content' they are usually very quiet about it, then just go "Okay, I'm bored lets upload this content." then a week or 2 later they end of up nerfing it due to much, made it very hard due to low player base. Or just to many bugs (such a engine not coming back on from ten-gu)

My favorite bug this patch. Some of the buffs from devices/shields/reactors work only 50/50. I casted Steingard on my TT earlier today, it managed to fail and no buff.

Edit: I believe at most of time content wise I see is 'bug' fixes coming up. Or Bykahee or w/e posting of incoming mission updates to Progen.

Actually the GMs were included because they are the front line, they can and do speak to the DEVs and I think without them we are all going to be lost sheep. The GMs catch the flack; the brunt of frustrations from the player base (read me). LOL the Devs pop in from time to time to reap the praises. I wish we all could get over our collective exuberance for having the game back and be a little more honest with the Devs.

Question: Dev "Is this a good change?" (lol as if)

Answer Players: "Oh yes, this is great, just as long as I can play...blah blah blah..."

[seekeronos]

I put the poll out since Dev polling for users' interests and issues with content does seem a bit thin.

To a large degree, this is understandable - GMs work bugs and tickets, Betas work specific issues that they are asked to focus on by Devs and/or what is hot on the MANTIS, and Devs themselves are frequently ... coding (!!) to fix those bugs and implement new features.

So, until an official ombudsman or other such intermediary is appointed to collect user feedback and let the Devs know how change X affects players ... I hope these seemingly useless polls might actually fuel discussion and provide usable feedback to the Devs.

I think some things do have an impact:

LIVE™ had four servers with several thousands, if not several dozen thousands of toons per server.

Of that population, a very sizeable number were OL150+ toons, especially after 2003 and V'rix content was upgraded.

LIVE™ was popular with most of who were in our early 20s to mid 30s on the average in 2002. Speaking for myself, I am no longer the 6+ hour a night/every night non-life having powergamer I was back then.

Not to cast aspersion upon those who still do powergame (and do so successfully, balancing their lives well) I'm just too dang busy with RL, and as it is, I find myself often pushing my luck to get on for a couple-three hours every other night I am on.

So, polls like this - while they may be ignored or actually even perceived as utter rubbish, might be useful - if even taking into consideration that only a small fraction of the playing population ever reads these forums.

I'd like to think that more than a handful of folks come here, since that is how I found out about this revival of E:blink:.

[Mimir[IS]]

I applaud your efforts, and mostly appreciate the polls. But like I said I would love to see some word from the powers that be that they are reading them. (if only “good poll and we will consider it”) If this were the case not only would I participate in every last poll but spam all the chat channels goading all to come and take them.

[bondct]

usually when you speak of groups for raids or whatever... i c the numbers 3-4 groups used a lot... I think at this point in the testing 4 is too high... but would like to see 2 - 3 groups as an option... so that would be 2-3 pug groups which could probably translate to 1-2 guild only groups as guild groups would be more effective imo...

keep in mind that it will be hard to field a 24 person guild group atm... and while I realize there are a lot of old-time Pegasus players on the server... a lot of us Andromeda people form guilds based on built friendships and would rather raid with that group and not need pug people... note: neither philosophy is wrong... just preferences of what people like... but I think hope we could cater to both preferences of play style

[C Del[IS]]

I think some of you need to be easier on the devs. They donate their time to do this you know, and mistakes and disagreements are going to happen. Also, devs do look at these polls; I know I do. Please remember that we're actually in a testing phase and sudden changes will happen; if changes were made gradually, progress would be held back. The only alternative is a closed test, which I don't think anyone wants.

[toonsterpw]

I think the changes done in cooper stink. I play everyday and that was one of my most funnest places to hunt at, now you have to worry if you attack something 6 mobs coming from nowere will attack u and lock you in place. I palyed live and the fish never had the power to prevent you from warping out. And the fish bowl was never that hard in live that 2 groups could not clean up in there not now the fish see and shoot further then any non terrian can.

[r8rsfans75]

A couple options you might have missed in the poll is "I'm a lower level toon who hasn't noticed any changes from the last update". I haven't gone after any sporemothers with my OL109 PP yet (before the patch I was able to take out the sporemother at about cl26) but most of the other places I've been recently haven't noticed too many issues and have noticed zero issues using the other 3 <OL50 toons that I have.

[bondct]

I think the changes done in cooper stink.

dont hold back toonsterpw... tell us how you really feel

jk... I couldnt resist using that line

[Mimir[IS]]

I think some of you need to be easier on the devs. They donate their time to do this you know, and mistakes and disagreements are going to happen. Also, devs do look at these polls; I know I do. Please remember that we're actually in a testing phase and sudden changes will happen; if changes were made gradually, progress would be held back. The only alternative is a closed test, which I don't think anyone wants.

So what I read from this is..Lie to the Devs, they don't want to hear anything other than GREAT JOB!!! we love it and you, we all are gonna name our first borns after your alts. LOL so don’t be truthful inform the Devs only what they get right but do not let them know what they get wrong? Got it… or we are going to a closed test. Got it.

Little C will be so happy!

[Suricata79[IS]]

Yup, we look at these polls :-)

Just remember that alot of systems in this game have yet to be coded, so yes, things can change drastically sometimes, but please also remember, that sometimes the reason things don't work properly is because the code is simply not written yet or still needs refining, which is why we have the test server in the first place, so we can test out the changes and balance as needed. Just remember if you have issues, please give us 'constructive' feedback. Simply saying the changes suck, or the devs suck isn't really that useful to us :-)

As for raids, the regular gate raid mobs are balanced for around 1-2 groups, the fishbowl mobs and controller spawns (yet to be adjusted properly) are been balanced for 2-3 groups appprox. This is susceptable to change of course, since balancing these mobs actually requires raid groups to test them out., also the progressive spawn system has not been coded yet, so using the raids in thier current state as an example of how they will be will not give an accurate immpression.

Player feedback is always a fun beast, players are very quick to cry foul when something becomes harder, but are very tight lipped when they find favorable bugs, such as ways to trade non-trade items, and the fact that max HDC was giving players invulnerable hulls (which oddly enough no players reported.....) :-)

[C Del[IS]]

So what I read from this is..Lie to the Devs, they don't want to hear anything other than GREAT JOB!!! we love it and you, we all are gonna name our first borns after your alts. LOL so don’t be truthful inform the Devs only what they get right but do not let them know what they get wrong? Got it… or we are going to a closed test. Got it.

Little C will be so happy!

If you are going to be sarcastic and condescending, I guarantee that no one will listen to you.

Constructive criticism is useful. "You devs suck! You make it too hard to get my guy to 150 in three days!" is not. You seem to be saying that the devs don't care nor listen, which I believe is inaccurate, insensitive, and insulting.

[Davidr99 [Admin]]

Don't refer to GMs, They mostly do testing/tickets overall from my understanding. Good Luck getting a Dev to do a poll about 'content' they are usually very quiet about it, then just go "Okay, I'm bored lets upload this content." then a week or 2 later they end of up nerfing it due to much, made it very hard due to low player base. Or just to many bugs (such a engine not coming back on from ten-gu)

Ouch...We work very hard to try and balance things out. Sometimes things get broken, but we have a VERY small dev team...unlike WOW and many other games, and they still get it wrong. It is very hard to work on an MMORPG.

[Mimir[IS]]

I never ever said the Devs sucked... ever. but if we are going to read between the lines, pretty funny when something only slightly negative is posted, well the old how would you like a closed test? Sort of sounds like a threat to me?

[C Del[IS]]

It's not a threat; we're not going to go back to a closed server at any point. I'm just trying to say that, flaws and everything, what we have is better than the alternative.

[Mimir[IS]]

Oh, I took the poll, and spammed the chat channels to get others in here to take it.

[seekeronos]

My thoughts in funky orange:

Yup, we look at these polls :-)

Just remember that alot of systems in this game have yet to be coded, so yes, things can change drastically sometimes, but please also remember, that sometimes the reason things don't work properly is because the code is simply not written yet or still needs refining, which is why we have the test server in the first place, so we can test out the changes and balance as needed. Just remember if you have issues, please give us 'constructive' feedback. Simply saying the changes suck, or the devs suck isn't really that useful to us :-)

Understood and fair enough. Speaking for myself, I think you all are doing a great job, and I hope that any criticism I offer is received as the constructive sort.

As for raids, the regular gate raid mobs are balanced for around 1-2 groups, the fishbowl mobs and controller spawns (yet to be adjusted properly) are been balanced for 2-3 groups appprox. This is susceptable to change of course, since balancing these mobs actually requires raid groups to test them out., also the progressive spawn system has not been coded yet, so using the raids in thier current state as an example of how they will be will not give an accurate immpression.

Gate Raid mobs needing 1-2 groups (IMHO, one or two *players* should suffice, for individual "trash" mobs; Gate Raid bosses should need at least one full group (with difficulty) or two full groups (fairly easy)... and 2.5 groups (two full combat groups with healers, and a backline half group of JS'ers and buffers/patchers) sounds about right for FB raid and Controller...

Player feedback is always a fun beast, players are very quick to cry foul when something becomes harder, but are very tight lipped when they find favorable bugs, such as ways to trade non-trade items, and the fact that max HDC was giving players invulnerable hulls (which oddly enough no players reported.....) :-)

People liking Favourable bugs? Yup... people are rather tight about that... blast that sinful human nature

As for HDC, I'm embarrassed to confess I *still* don't have max HDC Guess I'll never know how that invulnerable hull worked out...

[seekeronos]

Ouch...We work very hard to try and balance things out. Sometimes things get broken, but we have a VERY small dev team...unlike WOW and many other games, and they still get it wrong. It is very hard to work on an MMORPG.

Not related to balance issues at all, but my offer to volunteer to storyboard the gaps in the Terran Scout starter missions / hull upgrade missions (I'll even give a whack at writing talk trees for them if given the chance) still stands.

[Nkata]

A few notes that you couldn't really cover in the voting. Granted, my two toons are not OL140+ but they're pretty close now, so this is from that perspective.

I think I really like the mob AI changes. I haven't done a lot of diverse hunting since the push but I'm finding that I'm not swarmed nearly as much. I am still seeing some cases of mobs chasing you even though you've gone very far from them. Case in point, 2 Naggies in Nif followed me from stopping at a nav to get the EL all the way to the center Vindis nav on the other side of Modo (I think that's the name of the big red planet there).

Personal, I found that I was doing better with the changes in terms of loot. At least now I'm getting devices and other higher valued stuff that I wasn't really before (I'd end up with like 100 looted comps that sold for nearly nothing).

I do think that trash loot should be tweaked a bit in terms of resell value. I was really disappointed to see after 2 hours of hunting I barely covered the cost of my ammo. With the changes this is slightly better, but it's still not really 'balanced'. I'm not saying give me a way to get rich quick, just make it so its a tad more worthwhile. I can see this being especially helpful for people that aren't on a ton and don't have time to farm trash but need the credits to get normal everyday stuff.

From what I remember in yesteryears, raiding was kind of a pain if other people/guilds were trying to do it at the same time. One thing to consider might be to create 'instances' of special raid zones so that it doesn't prevent other players from completing raids too. I can't decided if this would be useful with our smaller player base. In one hand, are we really getting enough people to do raids on a regular basis? And in the other, with the smaller player base, it'll be harder to schedule enough people so two guilds trying to do it at the same time might be a big problem if that's all they can muster up. Hopefully that makes sense. Granted, I know that would be a massive amount of work.

All-in-all good work Getting better and better with each content update!

[Davidr99 [Admin]]

I never ever said the Devs sucked... ever. but if we are going to read between the lines, pretty funny when something only slightly negative is posted, well the old how would you like a closed test? Sort of sounds like a threat to me?

Actualy soon as I get the time we are going to set up another server for everyone to test on. We will be asking you guys to come over and test before it moves to the play server. This will be more like a public test realm.

[garblesoup]

Hmmm, I wanted to check the box that said "Is this a poll or an SAT test?" but didn't see it as an option.

Honestly, I think people are getting a little overwrought with this. Some people don't like the changes . . . and have expressed that to the Team in multiple threads now (and usually in a positive, informative, manner). What I thought I read in response was that they are working on it and that there will be more changes coming to address some of those concerns. Is there something else that you wanted in response? A magic wand to be waved? A pony? How about a big group hug?

I'm more than a little shocked to see the harshness some people are using in criticizing people that are volunteering time and effort to work on this. Constructive criticism is one thing . . . but, IMO, some people are going way too far. Let's try to keep things in perspective.

[Mattsacre]

I think the changes done in cooper stink. I play everyday and that was one of my most funnest places to hunt at, now you have to worry if you attack something 6 mobs coming from nowere will attack u and lock you in place. I palyed live and the fish never had the power to prevent you from warping out. And the fish bowl was never that hard in live that 2 groups could not clean up in there not now the fish see and shoot further then any non terrian can.

Welllll.actually....while you may feel they stink (and some I agree with) lets clear some of your misconseptions up here. Boss fish inside and outside of the FB DID lock you up from warping away (desash etc.)..differing fish had differing OTHER debuffs as well...they had a reactor recharge reducer for one (sucked to be a PS) a sig increaser for another..now they REALLY saw you from other side of sector...grav links...some even had hack and others had anti-weapon turbo (slowed your shots down) they had the rally skill also for themselves..and a few even healed others if they go close enough together (like the ostrea mobs in VT used to do).

As to the FB...umm what live did you play? It ALWAYS took at least 4x (5player) groups per FB..and a mixed lot at that..you had to have JSers (both JE and PS), you had to have dedicted healers and hull patchers, at least 1 dedicated gear fixer, at least 1 if not more JD to pull back tank for the healers to save their butts. And a minimum of 3 tanks to switch out aggro. Your memory may be fading on that but with all the interskilled action needed it did indeed take at least 4x (5) GEARED to do FB or 5x+ for PUG..and then it would be a serious lagfest.

[Mattsacre]

About loot and stuff....specificly Antares and non stack loot...the vendor sell values for non-stack loot should be drasticly increased if you cant farm and stack up stuff for CL and TL because of space restrictions then you should get credit to compensate i.e. like live the bio parts from volts should be worth much more than the paltry 1-2k ea, that or stack. At 1k-2k ea that dont even cover the high end ammo costs of missle/projectile users. For non-beamers the only reason to hunt antares is the high end recipes.