PW Skill: Self Destruct

[Tyran]

I agree Self destruct should have like a 15 minute timer on it to keep it from being exploited like we know everyone likes to do in games like this. Max Self destruct should destroy everything within say 10k with the exception of boss mobs. The 15 minute timer would keep them from exploiting it with someone that can rez them and it should also carry a debt penalty of say half of what it would have been if you would have died under natural fire. When you hit SD it takes 5 secs or so to power up everything to critical mass and then boom everything dies. The PW then has the normal options to tow or wait for a rez. Also it could be added that the PW has to be taking Hull damage before he even has the option to self destruct.

1) Much funny time to be had as it destroys everything it also kills neutrals. Think of 60 people doing a raid and you fly in and kill everything and EVERYONE

2) Other abuses are herding tons of mobs and AOE gaping their asses as 10k range means a diameter of 20k gets nuked...talk about easy farm if you have a JE nearby to jumpstart you as well as multiple PW's in the group to keep on suiciding

3) Since it kills all non-boss mobs all raids will become beyond easy as all minions are instantly evaporated

4) Even with a 1hr+ timer this would be the most bestest skill on my, or anyone's skillbar. Since you can multibox you would have multiple suicide squads ready

The problem boils down to this: there's not really a fine line of balance for SD. If it does decent damage it screams for abuse, but make it situational and/or less damage and it will never get used.

Even if it did as little as 50k pure aoe damage it could be a well abusable skill since you could stack the damage with multiple suiciders to snatch a boss which other professions would have no chance to counter.

[nimr0dbbow[IS]]

And what happens when Grissom Space Patrol get their SD skill back in the game?

SD is very fine skill to balance right. If it was extremely effective, AOE, then prehaps Terran scouts could obtain a 'initiate skill' skill, that when targetted on <target player / mob>, one of their skills is immediately activated. For the majority of players, this would not be a problem. If SD was very effective as above, then PW may start to hate TS (especially in arenas).

Initiate Skill would have no effect if Skill level was at level 3 or lower.

[pull4rise]

thats why sd needs to be the way it was....a ts would still get owned by a fw if he could be able to use its sd...since the hull isnt easy to get away with an explorer lol...sd=no incapacitated ...i hope sd wont become any of the ideas ive read here since then sd is going to sux big times...in live sd was good the way it was...there is really no need to change it.and yes bring back sd on gsps and rds since rds used sd too.

[afrodub]

As a pw in live. i used SD ALOT.

It disables you from moving/shield recharge/reactor recharge for 1 minute with a 30 minute cool down timer. it did not kill you.

The thing about SD that made it useful and powerful was the ability to toggle it.

In live, it was heavily exploited by Pw's. There was a 7 second timer after you push the button where it would count down.

It was exploitable because once all the mobs that were close to you seen the count down timer, they would run away from you.

I used this method to hunt beam/proj users way above my combat lvl, as SD would make them run, and i would chase them down. And since they were beam/proj users they wouldnt shoot back since they were never facing me. This went for ever mob in the game even bosses. just toggle it on and off every few seconds.

(my current pw is only lvl 50 and dosent have the sd skillyet so i dont know how it is currently. i spoke wiht a dev about it, to make sure that they knew its a exploitable skill and to watch over how the pw's are using it)

I knew poeple in live who would get 2 or 3 pw's together and scare the sacrains (race track by glenn), and make it so their bird always won. Once the gm/devs found out they nerf'd the mobs from running from this skill

I personally think, 1min incapicated 30 minute cooldown, no xp debt (no optioned to tow or get jumpstarted), no trade/equipment damage, and take away the abilty to toggle it. (The ammount of damage it does, i dont know because i only had it at lvl 1 in live)

Just my memories on how it was in live, and my thoughts on how it should be implemeted without it being exploited like it was in live.

Cia

edit: there are no missile using mobs ingame that i am aware of, so making mobs run from SD would make pw's untouchable untill mobs started using missiles, sorry i forgot that last bit.

[skitszo]

The thing with SD was when used it never really ever killed anything. the damage was never enough. and what was the point if it killed you and you had to try and get back to loot your kill....if it died. Theirs just no reason to put skill points in it. the only thing it was ever used was to fake out mobs to run from you and try to not get hit by it, before they somehow changed that aswell.

If you incap with using that skill then have it so a gob of damage otherwise there is no point.

if you go with the option keeping them alive then perhpas less damage proportional to how much hull you give them

another idea which seems pretty cool and inline with using your shield as a weapon; why not have it use a portion of your hull to use as a weapon and give it a cooldown. that way if your solo its self limiting as you only have so much hull anywayz, but then the timer is for non abuse when your in a group. like 10% per use.

leveling 1-7 obviously buffs amount of damage and range

[Giest310]

I liked the pole gave me a nice select options to pick from.

in live SD did 0-3 points of reactor damage at least when i used it

never did any damage to mobs because they where never in range

and was base of reactor power you had left even after your where disabled

and was suppose to do AOE not that could ever tell because SD had a very short range

PS I still have the the last install of E&B on my PC as of sunset if useGuys want to disassemble it.

it sets on and older hard drive.

[C Del[IS]]

Good poll. I like the wide variety of options.

I think it's important to make SD incapacitate you, because otherwise you could spam it, and PWs already have a hell of a combat advantage. (I speak as a PW myself) XP debt shouldn't be a part of SD though, otherwise the skill wouldn't make any sense.

[Azasha]

Good poll. I like the wide variety of options.

I think it's important to make SD incapacitate you, because otherwise you could spam it, and PWs already have a hell of a combat advantage. (I speak as a PW myself) XP debt shouldn't be a part of SD though, otherwise the skill wouldn't make any sense.

This is the reason that certain skills have a "cool down" time where you can only use them once in X amount of seconds or minutes. No reason to change the game mechanics from what they were before. I don't know why people insist that things be "balanced" or changed to be "useful" when the emu is not even fully functional.

The goal should be to get all skills, items, sectors, stations, mobs, ores, asteroids, and anything else anyone can think of functional back to the way it was in Live. THEN if tweaks need to be made or things changed that would be the time to do that.

[Jamosite]

I may be tarty to the party but i will never forget using SD via the Ten Gu raids. you did not need a js or a tow, you lost your shields and all your reactor, there was some time (felt like forever but more like seconds) that your reactor started to recharge. Why has this been removed?

I do remembrancer low level mobs running from you though, that we could do with out here but i remember it was funny.

Edited May 28, 2010 by Jamosite

[Yuritau]

1. I think it should be EXPLOSIVE damage (you are blowing up your ship, after all), I think it should be Massive (actually massive) AoE damage to anything in range (range should be explicitly stated in the skill tooltip)

2. I think it should damage all trade goods by 50% AND destroy a random number of trade goods, as well as force each piece of equipment to make a roll to see if it gets any structure damage

3. I think it should garner 50% of normal XP debt, so that a high enough JS can actually completely remove the debt

4. I think it should completely incapacitate the PW, giving the normal flag or tow options, and if the skill does NOT completely incap the PW, it shouldn't be called self destruct.

[bondct]

1. I think it should be EXPLOSIVE damage (you are blowing up your ship, after all), I think it should be Massive (actually massive) AoE damage to anything in range (range should be explicitly stated in the skill tooltip)

2. I think it should damage all trade goods by 50% AND destroy a random number of trade goods, as well as force each piece of equipment to make a roll to see if it gets any structure damage

3. I think it should garner 50% of normal XP debt, so that a high enough JS can actually completely remove the debt

4. I think it should completely incapacitate the PW, giving the normal flag or tow options, and if the skill does NOT completely incap the PW, it shouldn't be called self destruct.

why would you want to use it then if the penalities were that harsh (except on rare occasions?)? If you had to tow then how do you get back for the loot (would it be worth the time to fly back vs what you could get from reg killing)? You might lose your spot? Would it become a KS skill if it were massive aoe dmg?

[Yuritau]

why would you want to use it then if the penalities were that harsh (except on rare occasions?)? If you had to tow then how do you get back for the loot (would it be worth the time to fly back vs what you could get from reg killing)? You might lose your spot? Would it become a KS skill if it were massive aoe dmg?

My question to you is, should suicide bombing be a regular use tactic? I think not, I think it should be a very rarely used desperation attack. If you want something to use on a regular basis, stop calling it self destruct and make it more repeatable.

[bondct]

the name is just semantics... this is a game, not real life... to me imo self-destruct is just another attack... so it should be balanced as such... and the name sounds cool, so personaly I dont care if its not a true to life sd... and remember the game is touting sd as a skill... which is why you use skill points for it... imo rare skills that you use once a year are a waste... if that is what sd is for then it needs to be balanced so it can be used and be fun...

[Levitron]

i forgot to add this in live my pw was maxed out using the lvl8 scimitar beam i think which adds to SD it did about 45-46k dmg on all...i basicly used this as a 1st hit on scooter and the cooldown on it was very high like 30min or so,so u could only use it once on a boss.

Reading all the other posts here this one makes the mose sense to me..I do not want to lose more cargo space to haul explosives around for something i rarely use. As it is I haul ammo and never have enough room to do any serious looting so hauling even more junk around is sensless. as of right now i only use it to get back to endriago from the grav well in lagarto.

On a side note, what do we run our ships on? I always wondered why they never made us haul some kind of fuel for our ships lol. Maybe I shouldnt have brought that up.

Edited June 11, 2010 by Levitron