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Wasted Triggers !

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14 minutes ago, Moulinneuf said:

I agree, you have disgressed.

 

Can a DEV or GM please close this thread. , Thank you.

 

Please stop the insults...  Give the community a chance to answer

 

23 minutes ago, shaka said:

Lets try to keep it simple;

 

Why does there need to be a raid rotation under the current status of the server?

                                                   also

What would be the harm in temporarily eliminating it as a test? 

 

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Can we stay on topic with this thread?    It's getting hijacked byt trying to (re)define the role of the  Advocate that may best be taken to a separate thread, perhaps in the advocate forum.

 

BI did a GoBB raid last night about 23:00 PDT inviting public people to help out.   We managed to pull it off, which is good considering that is one of the lowest population times for the server. Not gonna lie, some multiboxing was required.

 

I still think some form of rotation is requires to assure spreading raiding times across the disparate time zones that players run in.     Maybe an option to mandate that guilds at least try to invite public or other raiding guilds during their raid times, rather than keep it just their private club.   They basically just get first-right-of-refusal on space in the raid.  This may also make it easier to get raids done when they want to do them, because they wouldn't have to rely on doing them only with their guild's resources.

 

Just throwin' some ideas out there.   I may be an officer in DI but am not speaking for DI at this time.

Edited by Zarg
fix wording around advocate thread hijack

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9 hours ago, Moulinneuf said:

 

 

Because FFA worked so well in the past ... 

 

Where is your data ?

From what experience ?

 

 

 

You are correct, At that point in timethere was an issue, that was what, 3 years ago?

How many of those players are still here?

How does the current active server population compare to what it was then?

At this point in time, If/When a trigger spawns,(Out of its predicted spawn time), there probably wouldn't be enough players in game to take it down.

The Guilds plan a time of day when they have enough online to do the raid.

Public does the raid when those on the US East coast have finished their dinner.

 

Raids are a matter of convince and ownership

They should be events that draw what is left of the community together

 

As for my experience? 

1 Year in live getting leveled up in Griss by Zach and company

A few years in and out of the EMU as they tried to get it going, 

Several Char wipes

 

I have been around, I have seen this place go thru several changes

The rotation is an issue, its keeping the community apart when what we need is something to keep us together

 

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3 hours ago, Zarg said:


I still think some form of rotation is requires to assure spreading raiding times across the disparate time zones that players run in.  

 

 

Would it be possible to set the triggers to spawn at certain times, and change them weekly for each time zone?

I know nothing of coding, so forgive me if this is an issue

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After some quick rethinking I have something else to add, but Im leaving my above rant up cause I do feel strongly about it

 

At the time the rotation was put in place it was a good thing, and here is why I feel that way

The server population was higher then and the Raids were NEW

Everyone wanted the fancy new gear so they could feel good about themselves

So like children they/we fought over the new toys

 

Things are different now, there arent as many people, and those of us who are still here have those toys

Granted only one of my toons has a skull shield, and Id like one for my other toons, But its not as important now as it was then

 

Its not the same as it was then, we cannot set rules based on things that are no longer an issue

 

If a trigger is due to spawn, odds are someone will be watching, if a group of Bob1-Bob2-Bob3-Bob4-Bob5-Bob6 takes down a trigger, odds are it will be mentioned, and delt with

 

 

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Well raid trigger spawn times now are essentially random.  Most of the ones in the rotation are roughly 48 hours +-12, so could come up at just about any time of day.   Then  just stay up until a group strong enough to take them down does so.  The rotation is all about "big guilds" taking turns at them rather than first-come-takes-the-prize.   Now if these triggers only stayed up for  a limited time and then despawned, that might put more pressure on the player community to take them down promptly.

 

The Celestial Warder, which at this point is almost a mini-raid, but is not on any kind of rotation agreement --  is a bit more like what raids would be like in a FFA system.   It was buffed up not too long ago, and now takes a solid group or a really extreme multiboxer to take down.  But it is hardly ever left up for long.

 

 

A number of posts back, Stevinium suggested ignoring the rotation and just forming groups and taking down raids.  While that seems like a simple solution,  from what I have seen from forming 'public' raids, it is really hard to get groups together for raids, even the public ones.     Also, some of the guilds in the rotation have forbidden their members from taking part in raids that are not honoring the rotation agreement.   This is also going to limit efforts to get enough people to 'just form raid groups and go for it'.    Good luck with that!

 

"People, I just want to say, you know, can we all Get Along?"  -- Rodney King, May 1992

 

-Zargol

Edited by Zarg
more details on raid trigger timing. Specify referral to stevinium.

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On 9/4/2017 at 9:57 PM, Moulinneuf said:

 

I already answered that , quite clearly.

 

Funny, that :

1 single player

and really, you are , nothing more

is trying to re / define what behing a Player Advocate his

when you see only 10% of what they / I do.

 

There are those who are defined by a position and other who redefine the position

I guess I am the latter.

 

To be blunt and precise , so that you get the magnitude here , more then 30 other playe and many guild leadersr have asked

me to look into the Raid Trigger problem and fix it.

 

The Dev said it's a player problem , deal with it or leave it alone we don't care ( wich is not really true )

 

Previous Advocate have told me this proably would be the biggest ssue as it was there's too.

 

You know who get to decide what the Player Advocate try and get fixed ? Only one person : The player advocate.

 

You know who define the Player advocate role : The player Advocate , Until a Dev or or GM or all of them kick him

where it hurts and the player advocate give up.

 

Sorry if that don't meet your and other player approval and false idea of what the role of the player advocate is.

 

You want to dscuss my role on this , pop up on teamspeak in the advocate channel with your guild leader and tell him you think the raid trigger

situation is fine the way it currently is..  Just give me a heads up to let me make a jumbo bowl of popcorn first. 

 

 

I thought the correct answer to "You know who define the Player advocate role" was Kyp.

As was done in these posts:

 

...there's more, I only went back so far in my search.  My point is that there was a clear definition spelled out for the Advocate Position by EMU staff before you were elected.  I understand you're trying to be helpful and there's a lot you do that most players don't see, but I find it concerning that you are trying to use the "Advocate" tag to take ownership / meddle in a matter that EMU staff have previously said they want nothing to do with.

 

Maybe I missed some posting in my search, so if the "Advocate Position" duties have officially changed, please share the post from EMU leadership that shows what the new responsibilities are.  Until you can show us that post, I assume you are just expressing your opinion on this matter as 1 single player, nothing more, just like everyone else on this thread with no decision making authority whatsoever.

 

I appreciate that you're a go-getter and are trying to resolve a long standing issue in the player community, but I voted for you to be the Advocate and to do the job defined by Kyp, not for you to take the job and then change it into something we never voted for.  The statement: "There are those who are defined by a position and other who redefine the position.  I guess I am the latter." is completely inappropriate for an elected position in my opinion.

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3 hours ago, Flip said:

 

 

I thought the correct answer to "You know who define the Player advocate role" was Kyp.

As was done in these posts:

 

 

I agree, you are still disgressing

I stand by my previous demand :

Can a DEV or GM please close this thread. , Thank you.

 

 

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Cretaed a thread for Player Advocate role in Advocate forum

So that you can stop invading other peope thread.

 

 

 

I still stand by my previous demand :

 

Can a DEV or GM please close this thread. , Thank you.

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On 9/6/2017 at 2:49 PM, Moulinneuf said:

 

 

Can a DEV or GM please close this thread. , Thank you.

 

 

Why do you keep asking for the thread to be closed?

Dont your powers extend to this area?

We are having a discussion, join in and discuss, dont dictate, or dont reply

 

 

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1 hour ago, Moulinneuf said:

Cretaed a thread for Player Advocate role in Advocate forum

So that you can stop invading other peope thread.

 

 

 

I still stand by my previous demand :

 

Can a DEV or GM please close this thread. , Thank you.

 

Wow Mouli you give orders to GM and Dev now? Give it a rest and come down from imaginary throne you are not helping anything with situation dictating your orders what is wrong with you lol. I am ashamed i voted for you as PA. As you have posted you don't care about raiding and even in guild when we needed you it was hard to get you involved so leave the discussion to people that care for raids.

 

My vote is remove the raid agreement it don't work anymore.

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Is it possible to vote on this?  Or will the top guilds just continue to remain silent and hold sway while hoarding raids for themselves.  Seems to me that every raid is a struggle right now, public or not.  Might we all come together and enjoy this great game?

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18 hours ago, shaka said:

Is it possible to vote on this?  Or will the top guilds just continue to remain silent and hold sway while hoarding raids for themselves.  Seems to me that every raid is a struggle right now, public or not.  Might we all come together and enjoy this great game?

 

http://www.easypolls.net/poll.html?p=5904be30e4b06cb867ea4eec#

 

I set this up in April it seem the majority don't want this raid agreement on but honestly Not sure why it has not be been removed.

 

I am Builders Inc member and yeah my vote has been to remove lol but not sure why we can't just do it and Shaka if you search the forums this has been a topic every few months :). But definitely now would make sense to remove but in the meantime builders Inc leadership has instructed for a while now if we don't have enough people to invite public which we do but not sure then other 2 guilds in rotation.

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Why is everyone saying remove the rotation?

 

Just get a group together and take down a trigger if it pops up

Will a few yell and scream about it?  Yep  

Are people yelling and screaming about the way it is now?  Yep

 

The ONE reason for keeping the rotation, that they bring up over and over and over is it will start a "war"

But I ask to you all, who will fight in this war?  There arent many of us left

Lets play the game WITH EACH OTHER before there isnt anyone left to play with

 

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The reason I believe it should be voted on to officially eliminate or suspend the rotation is "big3" members or the public in general seem tentative to join a forming raid for reasons of upsetting old rotation traditions or affecting change for the elimination of one.  I could not agree more that the game would be a much better environment if everyone raided together.

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It's not that simple Shaka.  The rotation agreement wasn't voted in by the player base, having the server vote on whether to keep it won't change anything.  The agreement is a contract between 3 guilds, if you join one of those guilds, you should expect to follow through on any promises that guild has made with others in the game.  Personally, I think the time for the rotation has passed, I would rather see everyone raiding together, but since I'm in one of the 3 guilds, I will abide by the agreement until I hear otherwise from my guild leaders.

 

The way I see it, there's 2 ways for the agreement to change:

1) Members of one of the 3 guilds convince their leadership to change the agreement (I tried a vote in my guild last year to see if we should leave the rotation, but it didn't get enough support).

2) As Gunney said above, someone outside the big 3 guilds needs to grow a pair and start taking down the triggers to force something to happen.

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I understand what your saying Flip and I appreciate your insight.  The sad truth is everyone (big3 members included) are still abiding to old order.  The reason any raid is a struggle is because of this order.  just as much as the public needs to revolt, the big3 members need to also "grow a pair" and stop the madness.  I for one would not be a member of a guild that showed bad form and was unjust because a leader tells me so, but that's me.  There must be a path to freedom or this thread is a mere venting session for all that understand what would make the current server better.

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Sorry for the double post but i prefer not to edit posts for reasons of consistency of a thread.

 

My toon names are Realdeal/Thrilla/RdJE/ATE

I am a member of Damage Inc,  although my thoughts do not necessarily reflect the guild's sentiments.

I played this game in Live and inconsistently since ST2.

 

I try my best to have respect for all players and their viewpoints.  I do not intend to insult anyone in my posts however in my passion errors may occur.

Point in being, I know this game and how it has evolved.  My viewpoints regarding the rotation stem from my passion for this game, not my greed for items from a raid.  (I have basically everything I want for most of my toons.. with the exception of warder stuff and a TR for thrilla.. heh)   

 

BTW Mouli is doing a fine job as PA just not necessarily on this topic.. please do not respond to this comment here.

 

Aloha 

  

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9 hours ago, Flip said:

It's not that simple Shaka.  The rotation agreement wasn't voted in by the player base, having the server vote on whether to keep it won't change anything.  The agreement is a contract between 3 guilds, if you join one of those guilds, you should expect to follow through on any promises that guild has made with others in the game.  Personally, I think the time for the rotation has passed, I would rather see everyone raiding together, but since I'm in one of the 3 guilds, I will abide by the agreement until I hear otherwise from my guild leaders.

 

The way I see it, there's 2 ways for the agreement to change:

1) Members of one of the 3 guilds convince their leadership to change the agreement (I tried a vote in my guild last year to see if we should leave the rotation, but it didn't get enough support).

2) As Gunney said above, someone outside the big 3 guilds needs to grow a pair and start taking down the triggers to force something to happen.

 

I am an officer in Builders Inc, not as high as Flip.   But, you have seen me be transparent about the current state of the big 3 and the game.  I have openly said the raid rotation should die.

 

As Ravina (another officer in Builders Inc) said, this discussion comes up every couple of months and it is doesn't go anywhere.   The guild leaders of the big 3 either don't want the change or are no longer active enough to voice their opinion.   Most of the people who voted for keeping the raid rotation in Builders Inc, don't actively play anymore.

 

We are only officers in our guild and don't make decisions for the guild.  I think Flip's suggestion of taking down triggers to force something to happen is the best route.  Work together as a server and eventually the raid rotation will be forgotten.

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