Jump to content
Daath

Guidelines for Public Raids.

Recommended Posts

We've recently been added to the rotation as a Public entity for the big raids.. After organizing and participating in several of these raids recently it became apparent some guidelines are necessary to make things run smoothly with assembling and executing the raids as well as loot distribution afterward.  I will try here to address most of those, please make comments and posts to this thread for your suggestions and issues and I'll try to address them.

This is a guideline and not by any means a set of rules to be taken as sacred writ.  Organizers of the actual raid may or may not follow these guidelines but I hope they will keep things on a similar tone for anyone participating.

ORGANIZERS:

When preparing groups for the raids it is best that the raid have a single organizer, this allows for better coordination.  This person is responsible for several aspects of the raid:

- Getting the word out... Contacting people via open channels (General or New Players) and friends list.  Also is OK to ask big guild members/leaders to help out if needed but the participants from those big 3 guilds must be reminded that all three guilds have recommended that their members not participate in Loot lotto.

- Setting up the IN-GAME channel.  A private channel is good for this, not everyone uses TeamSpeak and it is necessary that every participant in the raid use the same channel for communication so the attack can be coordinated better and the loot lotto can be conducted in a way that all can see the rolls.

- Establish the looting rules for the raid BEFORE it begins.  There are several ways this can be done, but the most common, agreed upon way is described in section THREE of this post.

- Coordinate and assemble groups.  For this reason the organizer must ask people to bring the right classes of toons in the right numbers to the raid.  Most of the primary rotation raids require 3 groups and can be composed differently based on the Organizer's strategy of attack.  

- Communicate clearly and effectively the damage type needed for classes participating, RD base has different recommended damage types than say GoBB or Controller.  For this reason the Organizer should be very familiar with the raid being conducted.  

- Establish the Looter.  This person must be a trusted player that can collect the loot properly and handle the lotto for non-trade items that drop during the raid.  

1. Preparation

The big raids are on timers and pop up about every 2 days.  Depending on which raid is up for which week it will determine what classes are needed to support the raid and which configurations we'll need in the groups to succeed. When you see the notice on GENERAL or New Player channel that a raid is forming ask the person making the announcement what is needed.  

TT, TE, PW and JD form the core components of raid groups.  TTs can be substituted with JS or PP as possible but not always as desired as a TT.  TT has the shield capacity and healing skills most wanted for raids.  TE is good for Hack/Biorepress and PW is of course the tank.  Often PWs are needed to drive groups and should be able to take agro and hold it as much as possible.  JDs are for summon and reactor charge, the Summon Skill and Energy Leech is critical here and they are a fundamentally necessary class for most raids.  

If you are unfamiliar with how to run your toon for a raid, contact me and I'll do what I can to help you setup before hand, others like EpicGamers guild and such can also be a good preparation resource.  

If at all possible stage your toon near the raid location, these take a lot of time to build groups and start, so if the toons are close by it will speed this process up tremendously.

2. Communication

It is advised to participate in a listening capacity on TeamSpeak at least, to hear the "chatter" this allows you to anticipate what is going on and learn from the other raiders what is good/bad technique.  

A private channel (100) is often used, these channels have a limit of 16 participants, so please do not login 5 alts to the channel for a raid, others need it too.  This channel will be announced at the time for the raid to organize and form.

3.  Looting

Often raid organizers will establish a looter, drivers of the groups will use /credit kill <name> to give loot rights from their groups to that person.  They will loot everything for the most part and will be responsible for the items looted, some items are non-trade and those items should NOT be looted by the designated looter as they will need to be lottoed off somehow before the corpse disappears.

Looters should be familiar with the loot and make it know what is being looted from bosses and such so the people can understand what is being pulled out of the raids...

4. Lotto

For public raids this is hard to control.  There are disputes as to who can bid on what for these lotto processes.  The Big 3 guilds have a rule in place with their members that their members participating are not authorized to bid on raid loot from public raids.  This is a rule from the guilds, not from us.  The big 3 guilds have placed this rule to allow more people access to the items dropped and they see themselves as support for the raids, not participants, since they have their own weeks in the rotation.  But again, this is imposed by the guilds, we don't always know who is in what guild and it is not our responsibility to enforce that.  

Use your conscience and sense of fair play as a guide when bidding.  If you have UberLoot Item IX, then you may want to refrain from bidding on that item to allow someone else a better chance.  We don't know who has what and we rely on an honor system to determine who should or should not bid.

The consensus for authorized bids is not set in stone and the organizer should state any specifics BEFORE the raid begins.  This will avoid major disputes over the rolls.  The recommended methods are documented here but they are not fixed.

 

The lotto method us usually one of two systems.  The X-UP method or the All /random method... The Organizer may choose which system is used and will have to make sure that the method of rolling is communicated to all before the first item is bid upon (Before the raid if non-trade items are going to drop)

PARTICIPANT ROLL:  

This roll is for loot that is class/race specific items (i.e. L9 beam weapons are for Jenquai, etc) The avatar that participated the raid is given priority, however if a person wanted to bring their JD and was asked to bring their TT instead they must declare before the raid beings their intent to roll for a specific item/alt even though their participating avatar cannot use the item.  (EXAMPLE:  [100] DaathJD: I was asked to bring my JD but I wish to roll on the UberPL IX for my PW if it drops" ) This allows everyone to know, in advance, what the intentions are.  The ORGANIZER is responsible to keep track of these substitutions. If an item is put up for bid for the PARTICIPANT ROLL and is not desired by anyone in that category then it is made an OPEN roll.  Refer to non-trade and trade loot sections below for more information about these drops.

PLEASE DO NOT BID ON ITEMS YOUR MAIN or YOUR ALT AVATARS CANNOT USE.  It is unfair to the participants of the raid that NEED/DESIRE these items to see them traded on [Market] imediately after the raid.  

OPEN ROLL:

Some items are able to be used by any class, these items can be rolled on by any participant. This may also be an item that is race specific but has been passed over by the priority particpants in a raid.  

NON TRADE loot:

These items MUST be bid on by the participants of the raid, bringing an alt from Antares to get an item is not going to work.  If you PLAN on bidding on an item for a particular toon, make sure that toon is IN SECTOR.  Please declare your intention to bid on an item for an ALT before the lotto begins.  In the end the person conducting the lotto does not have the knowledge of everyone's alts, so we again ask you to be guided by a sense of fair play.  

TRADE loot:

Items can be bid on by any class, even if the class of toon used in the raid cannot use it.  Please declare your intention to bid on these potential items for an non-participating avatar BEFORE THE RAID BEGINS.

The lotto process may be different depending on who is conducting the lotto, there are several methods, please pay attention to the raid organizers and follow the rules they establish at the time.  

NOTE TO BIG 3 Guild Members, Static, VGE and Builder's INC:

To my knowledge your guild leadership has placed a restriction on your participation in "PUG" or "Public" raids of this type.  You are allowed to assist, organize and participate, but you are not allowed to bid.  It is my understanding this is because they feel it is necessary for fairness to allow non-guild and small guild people more of a chance to obtain these items and get something from the raid.  If you disagree with this rule, please take it up with your leadership.  We will do our best to see that the leadership decisions from these guilds are kept but we hold YOU responsible to declare it openly in text or teamspeak and refrain from bidding on the lotto for the major raid items.

Please post your comments and I'll append/revise this as necessary to reflect the public desire for guidance.

Edited by Daath
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

why is "tradable" loot being treated differently in a raid than non-trade loot?

The problem with non trade loot is the expire time on the corpse... so if you bid on a non-trade PW item, for example, that PW better be in sector.  Since you will have to login a secondary toon to get the item you need to let the looter know what is going on BEFORE or the confusion/delay could cost you the item.

 

Fortunately there aren't very many non-trade items in these raids... Also the organizers may establish restrictions on this as they see fit.. but there really is only one reason to restrict the non-trades and that is the time it takes for the corpse to expire.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

if big guild members can roll on stuff, like the spitter that went to a BI TS, then i will be attending and rolling on everything

 

 

daath, youll soon find out, when all 3 big guilds can loot and show up with every char they have, that the public raids really need to be for people who arent guilded.

Edited by zohawn

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Another note about bidding for alts... I have received a few PMs about this so I want to clear this up some more....

 

Tonight we did GOBB raid.. I had many people offer their PWs for the raid but we didn't need their PWs as much as we needed their TTs.  I can't ask them NOT to bid on the Spitter because they brought what I asked them to, not their PW.... That is basically what it comes down to... we can't be expected to keep track of all of that, open bidding may be much less chance to get the higher demand items for those who actually flew their PWs in the raid, but I can't ask them to stand down bidding for the items because they did what we asked for the sake of getting the right toons on the ground.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

if big guild members can roll on stuff, like the spitter that went to a BI PS, then i will be attending and rolling on everything

 

 

daath, youll soon find out, when all 3 big guilds can loot and show up with every char they have, that the public raids really need to be for people who arent guilded.

I agree, the big guild members shouldn't bid... But I can't always be held responsible for knowing who is in what guild... so the guilds will have to enforce that from their end, we just can't be expected to keep track of all of that... If a guild member bid on an item that they should not have, then it is up to that guild's leadership to deal with it appropriately and decide what to do about the contested item.  We, the public, are powerless really to do much about it... so take it up with the guild leadership please.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Log of Rolls for GOBB on 11 December 2013 with notes (Why I wrote this guide) There needs to be self-control, people can't just bid on everything.... But >I< cannot know who has what alts and who can or cannot use an item.  Some of these people bidding on items brought specific toons that I asked them to bring. 

 

These are all the items... the "PS from BI that got a Spitter" I don't know who that is.

 

  (2):19:34:42  Merchant Prince DaathTT: XUP For Black Spitter 9 -------------------- XUP
  (2):19:34:46  Proconsul Gizardpuke: x
  (2):19:34:46  Merchant Prince Partsmen: x
  (2):19:34:47  Proconsul Ravina: x
  (2):19:34:48  Proconsul FitreoPW: x
  (2):19:34:48  Elite Ranger StealthyTS: x
  (2):19:34:49  Merchant Prince Charlenett: x
  (2):19:34:52  Proconsul Toetotoe: x
  (2):19:34:54  Admiral Syberfly: x
  (2):19:35: 7  Admiral Lojik: x
  (2):19:35:12  Merchant Prince DaathTT: I see 9
  (4):19:35:26  DaathTT has generated a number between 1 and 9: 1 <-  I accidentally sent roll to group
  (2):19:35:28  Merchant Prince DaathTT: <- has generated a number between 1 and 9: 5 (§)
  (2):19:35:34  Merchant Prince DaathTT: Stealthy TS
  (0):19:38: 2  COMPUTER: TRADE: [1] 'Black Spitter' from 'DaathTT' to 'StealthyTS'

 

  (2):19:36:11  Merchant Prince DaathTT: XUP for Pegleg 9, ------------------------ XUP
  (2):19:36:15  Merchant Prince Partsmen: x
  (2):19:36:15  Proconsul FitreoPW: x
  (2):19:36:15  Proconsul Ravina: x
  (2):19:36:15  Merchant Prince Charlenett: x
  (2):19:36:17  Ken'shao Zargas: x
  (2):19:36:19  Admiral Lojik: x
  (2):19:36:23  Admiral Syberfly: x
  (2):19:36:49  Merchant Prince DaathTT: ok I see 7
  (2):19:36:55  Merchant Prince DaathTT: <- has generated a number between 1 and 7: 2 (§)
  (2):19:37:18  Merchant Prince DaathTT: FitreoPW

  (2):19:38:22  Merchant Prince DaathTT: XUP Black Power 9, ------------------------- XUP
  (2):19:38:25  Proconsul Ravina: x
  (2):19:38:29  Merchant Prince Partsmen: x
  (2):19:38:30  Admiral Syberfly: x
  (2):19:38:49  Ken'shao Zargas: x
  (2):19:39: 9  Merchant Prince DaathTT: I see 4
  (2):19:39:42  Merchant Prince DaathTT: <- has generated a number between 1 and 4: 2 (§)
  (2):19:39:46  Merchant Prince DaathTT: Partsmen
  (0):19:40: 7  COMPUTER: TRADE: [1] 'Black Power IX' from 'DaathTT' to 'Partsmen'

  (2):19:40:20  Merchant Prince DaathTT: XUP Black Power 8, ---------------------------- XUP
  (2):19:40:24  Proconsul Ravina: x
  (2):19:40:38  Admiral Syberfly: x
  (2):19:40:40  Elite Ranger Buckeye: x
  (2):19:40:40  Merchant Prince Actionmat: x
  (2):19:41: 1  Merchant Prince DaathTT: I see 4
  (2):19:41:24  Merchant Prince DaathTT: <- has generated a number between 1 and 4: 1 (§)
  (2):19:41:30  Merchant Prince DaathTT: Ravina
  (0):19:41:48  COMPUTER: TRADE: [1] 'Black Power VIII' from 'DaathTT' to 'Ravina'

  (2):19:43:16  Merchant Prince DaathTT: Black Speed 9 engine ------------------------------ XUP
  (2):19:43:56  Admiral Lojik: x
  (2):19:44: 6  Merchant Prince DaathTT: I see ONE for BS9 engine
  (2):19:44:20  Merchant Prince DaathTT: I will hold for Lojik

***NOTE THIS ROLL WENT WRONG: Why? Because I was being hit with (I counted 27 PMs over the FIRST roll right then and I messed up the roll because of it, when I checked the log I noticed that StrykTT had bid twice on this item and he was #1

  (2):19:44:29  Merchant Prince DaathTT: Black Speed 8 Engine ----------------------------------- XUP?

  (2):19:45:50  Merchant Prince StrykTT: x
  (2):19:46:12  Merchant Prince Actionmat: x
  (2):19:47: 0  Ken'shao Zargas: x
  (2):19:47: 5  Merchant Prince StrykTT: x
  (2):19:48:10  Merchant Prince DaathTT: ok 3
  (2):19:48:48  Merchant Prince DaathTT: <- has generated a number between 1 and 3: 3 (§)
  (0):19:49:34  COMPUTER: TRADE: [1] 'Black Speed VIII' from 'DaathTT' to 'StrykTT'

Edited by Daath

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The Saga of the wayward Black Spitter 9....

 

Investigating this I found that StealthyTS traded his Spitter to Ravina for the Black Power 8 Reactor....

 

Ravina is a member of Builders Inc, but has been gone from the game until 2 days ago and was not fully aware of the nuances of these public raids and his guild's rules against bidding for their members.

 

Ravina volunteered to surrender the disputed gun to me to resolve issues and sore feelings... Though in his defense I offer that he rarely gets to do the big raids due to limited play time, so I understand his eagerness to join a public raid that happened when he could join.  But because of this rule we can expect little or no support from big guild members in future raids, which is unfortunate... The way I see it, if a player needs the items in a raid, can raid and is willing to jump in, they should be on equal footing in public raids.  Their own conscience and sense of fair play should dictate their actions on the bid.

 

 

I now have this Black Spitter 9 and I will be trying to contact the other bidders and try to orchestrate a re-roll for the item when possible.  But that may be hard because I don't see many of them often. 

 

The following people either did not win any other item in the raid bids and are not members of any large guild as far as I know.. They are the ones I will be contacting for this re-roll..

 

Proconsul Gizardpuke
Merchant Prince Charlenett
Proconsul Toetotoe
Admiral Syberfly

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

the whole idea that tradable loot is open to everyone, irrespective of class, goes completely against "fair play" that has been mentioned, when there are classes/races that were AT THE RAID AND FIGHTING that can equip and use it straight away.

that in itself is a broken philosophy.

 

what that means, if I was spiteful enough, I can role on the ML and the beam that GoBB drops, and just vendor it for the sake of it. cause there's no difference to that, and trying to trade it on market channel, or to another player for an item they actually want (which is shit in itself - GG that BI member). so irrespective of where it goes, ANYONE that CANNOT equip the item in question straight away, SHOULD BE VOID FROM BEING ABLE TO ROLL!!!

 

and NEVER assume that other people are going to apply fair play rules, cause people will ALWAYS do what best suits them.

 

having 9 people roll for an item that only 3 could have equipped there and then, is only going to open things up for this sort of garbage.

never apply conflicting rules to tradable and non-tradable loot. they should all be governed by the same rules. plain and simple. it avoids all this bullshit.

 

so, if this is how the rules are going to stay, then don't bother asking me to another GoBB raid. because its simply unacceptable.

Edited by Gizardpuke
  • Downvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Gizard many of these people offered classes that we didn't need so I asked them to bring classes we DID need... do you want me to exclude them from bidding on the items they WANT because we didn't need them to bring that class?  If we do that then we don't get support toons, we get a bunch of PWs ... that won't work...

 

Also, if you think you can fairly accommodate both the raid needs v.s. the looting distribution, make suggestions... I am not setting these rules, I am SUGGESTING them... because there ARE NONE at this point..   So by all means lets discuss what YOU think is better and see if that would work...

 

I think it also only fair that I mention this.... This was our .. 3rd? 4th? Public raid and by far the most diverse group we've had... Up to now we've had large contingents of Big-3 members supporting us, so this was the biggest rolls we've seen yet.... We have a lot of kinks to work out and this is how it will happen.... WE do the raid, sort the loot, lotto it, make mistakes, learn from them... do the next raid...

 

It is a work in progress, so please be patient with us, we'll make mistakes and do our best to correct for them... after a few of these we'll get it down better and an established protocol will form.. but that doesn't happen in 2 or 3 raids..

Edited by Daath

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Congratulations on laying the Ghost of Blackbeard and its swarthy crew to final rest at the Edward Teach Memorial, gang. I was watching the assembly phase of the public raid and it went well for its current experience. Daath is teaching the public (tr: non- or small-Guilded) players the fundamentals of Raiding. There are many variables and nuances that tweak the Raids, but each has to be iron-ed out on an individual basis.

Big 3 (tr: Builders Inc, VonCorp Galactic Empire and Static): -suggestion- Don't want to actually take part in a public raid but still have the itch to help? How about sideline Jumpstart services or post-Raid Repair Equipment? Or even just be a vault for the looter to rush to and empty out. Even sitting in the battle-zone and Befriending the mobs (lowers aggro for your toon, but more importantly lowers mobs' Psi Resistance at max Befriend) is an idea. Big 3 that have done these raids know firsthand how tough doing their first few raids can be. Even if you are just there to watch the Publicks try their best, you too can appreciate their effort by being a sidelines assistant.

Daath, I almost offered up my Sentinel's max Jumpstart services, (as above), but you guys seemed to have the raid down pat. Kudos. Perhaps next time, eh?

From the situation room at NET-7 SOL, this is the Pakkrat.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Congratulations on laying the Ghost of Blackbeard and its swarthy crew to final rest at the Edward Teach Memorial, gang. I was watching the assembly phase of the public raid and it went well for its current experience. Daath is teaching the public (tr: non- or small-Guilded) players the fundamentals of Raiding. There are many variables and nuances that tweak the Raids, but each has to be iron-ed out on an individual basis.

Big 3 (tr: Builders Inc, VonCorp Galactic Empire and Static): -suggestion- Don't want to actually take part in a public raid but still have the itch to help? How about sideline Jumpstart services or post-Raid Repair Equipment? Or even just be a vault for the looter to rush to and empty out. Even sitting in the battle-zone and Befriending the mobs (lowers aggro for your toon, but more importantly lowers mobs' Psi Resistance at max Befriend) is an idea. Big 3 that have done these raids know firsthand how tough doing their first few raids can be. Even if you are just there to watch the Publicks try their best, you too can appreciate their effort by being a sidelines assistant.

Daath, I almost offered up my Sentinel's max Jumpstart services, (as above), but you guys seemed to have the raid down pat. Kudos. Perhaps next time, eh?

From the situation room at NET-7 SOL, this is the Pakkrat.

 

Thanks Pakkrat, the unwashed masses are getting stronger, this raid turn-out was awesome, I think people are starting to get in the groove and in a few more weeks we'll be doing pretty good I think.  GoBB was a lot of fun and we had had a diverse showing, many from small guilds and solo players.. just what I wanted to see.

 

The only issue with the Big-3 in these pubby raids are the loot concerns... We'll take all the help we can get but because many of the pubbies haven't had many chances at these items the Big-3 are not allowed to bid in our lottos... That was set down by the guild leaders and I think for good reason... but we'll always take the help when/if it is offered.  Especially as we move through this first cycle of raids in the rotation... As we get more experience and some toons up to speed for their roles it will get easier.

Edited by Daath

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If I could interject in your thread Daath, and explain how Static 'divides' the loot from the raids, it may or may not help your public raids to go along more smoothly?

 

There need to be certain toons for certain raids, that can equip certain gear and debuffs and such as necessary for successful completion. A single looter is designated by all the teams and given the 'credit kill'. The looter should use TS or at the very least chat to inform others what was taken from the corpse. This usually only applies to what is labeled at "uber loot" as there is plenty of 'junk' also included and to announce it all would take up tremendous amounts of time not to mention 'block' the raid leaders commands.

 

At the outset, if a person brings along a toon that is needed for completion of the raid they usually state they will be rolling for another of their toons. IE: I bring my TT for the healing, however I wish to gain access to a PL for my PW. I will state at the beginning of the raid "If such and such drops, I would like to reserve the right to roll for that item for my PW" . That way it removes sources of confusion later on as the 'arguements' tend to be negated by the statements and agreement before raiding begins. As you stated Daath, it is imperative that your 'alt' be located in sector for easy retrieval so said item does not 'pop' in the corpse.

 

With each uber item that drops, you are allowed to bid, if your class can in fact use it. It is generally bad form for a PW to roll for a non trade/non anny beam.(unless in a free roll**see below) However those Jenquais present might wish to roll if they don't already own it, or someone might have declared at the beginning of the raid they are in deed rolling for their Jenq from their PW. (see statement above)

 

Once an uber item has been won, that person can no longer 'roll' to win uber items from the raid, as they have already gotten something, give some others a chance as well. This rule applies ONLY if the items do not go to 'free roll'

 

What is free roll? Free roll is that point where everyone at the raid already has all the items and no longer need it, so nobody rolls on it because nobody wants to use their regular roll in case something else comes along. IE: I don't want to roll on that PL because the beam might still drop and I want the beam. If the item is then declared a free roll, everyone present may roll and regardless of the outcome, the winner is not excluded from using their 'standard' roll if they still have not won an item.

 

The reason Static runs the raids in this manner is to ensure that most, if not all of the people attending do in fact get something for their time and effort.

 

The reason that Static has stated that their guild base, if participating in a public raid should not roll on the 'uber' items is because they have many many chances to receive said items, and it would be unfair to those in the public raids if they were to have 2x the chances to win said item, THAT is why we discourage our members from rolling on raid loot at public raids. Our player base does know the rules we have set forth and the leadership has strong faith that each of our members will follow through and comport themselves with dignity and honor.

 

That is how we at Static deal with our raids, at least those are the basics. I likely have forgotten something of importance, so I reserve the right to adjust it if brought to my attention! LOL

 

*** I would like to note that I have no idea on the rules set forth by the leadership of either BI or VGE regarding their players during public raids, so please don't apply the rules of Static to those guilds. Get clarification from their leadership on how their players are expected to comport themselves.

 

 

Generally speaking, it is imperative that a raid leader be established before the raid begins. How that is determined should probably be based on the person with the most experience and knowledge of what each team will need and what is going to happen during each raid. IE: knows the spawns, knows the debuffs, knows their enemy. Each member of the raid should follow the leaders directions without question, even if they don't agree to achieve cohesion during the raid and less confusion about where to go and what to fire upon. The rules of the raid should be set out to begin with such that each member of the raiding party knows what is expected of them and how they should behave. This will help to minimize the fighting and bickering later on. The rules should be consistent for all involved across each raid. These are just general ideas on how you can help to make your raid week more productive and fun and to minimize the drama that might revolve around hurt feelings. 

 

Public raiders shouldn't ever be turned away. If all they have is a JE, then maybe someone running 'alts' can drop their JE and bring another toon. It is only fair that everyone in the public be included within reason. Static members attending public raids only bring those toons required to help 'flesh' out the raiding teams to achieve maximum results, and as such will drop any extra toons they have to make room for a public raider that wishes to join.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

thanks for that alura.

this is something that I was about to post myself, as it seems closest to the fairest way to distribute loot from raids.

silly thing is, these rules, for the most part, apply to every other raid in the game atm. except GoBB.

 

 

problem is, is that the majority of the loot from GoBB is tradable. which seems to have opened up a whole new can of worms (and rules) for some reason.

ive always liked raid loot being divided via those that attend first, and alts 2nd (as you suggested), as it means that eventually, you will get your item.

everyone wants the PL, but cant bring a Progen, yet i'll bet any money that if they dont win the PL, and the ML drops as well, they're rolling on that too. now to any progens there that misses out, this is NOT fair. plain and simple.

 

I'd also suggest that letting people roll their own fate. in yesterdays case, 9 people wanted PL, so the roll was /random 1 9, where the number you got was the order in which you expressed your interest. i.e. I was first, therefore I an number 1, death was second, therefore she is number 2, etc. let people roll their own fate. /random 1 100, highest number wins, ties rerolled.

 

so to summarize: 

- loot goes to classes / races that can equip at the raid first

- if said items class / race does not need or want to bid, then its opened up to everyone (a free-roll as alurra suggests) second.

- when bidding for items, place and X to express your interest in said item, in the private channel

- when rolling for items, each bidder runs the following command: /random 1 100 3 - this generates a random number between 1 and 100, and places the result within the private channel

- only rolls that are displayed within the private channel will be considered valid

- dedicated looters. this is an interesting one, as usually someone raiding brings an ALT along so they can lvl up TLs. if this is the case, then this is their reward (free leveling) IMO.

- the big 3. another interesting one. i for 1 feel that members of those raiding guilds should be abiding by the rules laid out by their leaders, as it promotes both respect from those guilds to the public trying to get some raiding in, but also respect for the raiding guilds, as they know that these encounters are hard, and sometimes, when their assistance is required, they arent essentially "double dipping" for loot. alurra has mentioned STATICs rules, so it would be nice if the other 2 can also provide some insight into their rules for public raiding. 

 

raid makeups are such to be able to complete the raid, otherwise it never gets completed. people need to understand this. some people have to bring TT's, some have to bring JD's. everyone wants to bring a PW. if someone decides not to turn up as a result, not the raids problem,

as its no place for someones ego to get in the way.

 

we're all following the same set of rules. for ALL raids. this is done so that those not in a dedicated raid guild have a chance and the uber raid loot.

so just because the item is tradable, doesnt mean that it should be treated differently.

 

 

fact of the matter is, it doesn't matter how loot is going to be distributed, there are always going to be disputes, especially in public raids.

and applying rules for such things is much easier in the control guild environment. i personally feel this is as close to fair as its gunna get to a fair and equitable situation.

 

anyway, this is a base to start with. lets hope that some sanity can come of it all and the public raids can be completed in a sane and reasonable manner, that everyones happy with.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks to both of you... As Gizardpuke indicates there is the problem of who brings toons that are needed v.s. the roll....

 

I think a declaration of intention is a great idea... i.e. "I am bringing my TT but I want to roll for X item for my PW if it drops" is probably the best way to deal with this... The thing about it was most of the people who rolled on the contested PL had said that pretty much but not in open channel or in game, except to me when I was getting them to show up.  The chaos of the assembling of groups and then my sudden role as "Organizer" was probably the major issue there.  I am not familiar with all of these guild-related nuances as I have only participated in these raids and had never organized one before.  So I thank you both for your input.  Let me ponder the balance of these two great posts and see what I can formulate in order to make it simple to understand and I'll append it to my first post on the thread for simplicity....

 

The methods you describe are very fair and people will just have to realize they need to conform to this framework or they will need to be ready for issues to arise in the rolls...

 

Two rolls, for each item, as you describe may be the best solution.. A "closed" roll for participants and those who formally declared their intention to bid for an alt BEFORE the raid, then an "Open" bid if no one in that group wants the item.  The problem there is how to explain that and keep it simple so I will have to formulate that carefully.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

havent actually ever been told that we cannot participate in public raids.. not sure if that is a guild rule or not to be honest. I would think that  most guys that raid often with there guilds, would step aside for guys that do not get to raid often as a matter of courtesy. But as far as a rule... ima check with the GL on that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

yes in fact .. GL has said that " while it is (OK) to go on the raids , he politly asked us ""not to roll"" on items during them" so it is ok to go have fun .. and fill in any missing slots that may be open.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

yes in fact .. GL has said that " while it is (OK) to go on the raids , he politly asked us ""not to roll"" on items during them" so it is ok to go have fun .. and fill in any missing slots that may be open.

I assume you are talking about VGE there.. and that is the same sentiment that BI and Static leadership has expressed... We appreciate that gesture very much... Many of these people have been waiting several months to raid..

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Being able to switch class to roll for before the raid starts seems good to me. Personally I would switch over completely in such cases to make it fair, so you can only roll for the selected class and not both the class you bring and a class you want loot for.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Some good points raised by all I think... on the question of rolling for alts that aren't involved in the raid, I am told that some of the big 3 run a system, whereby, if one is asked by the raid leader to field a toon other than that which they would have liked to roll for, it is quite allowable to roll for that toon, as long as it is specified at the beginning of the raid that for instance, "although flying a TT by request, I will only be rolling on behalf of my PS"

 

this seems fair, and means that I don't roll on every 'uber' item that other people would like, and prevent me from running home with a ML for my TE, and a reactor for my PP even though I really wanted to fly my PS initially, meaning that everyone has a fairer chance of obtaining something for the toon that they are focusing on, by reducing the number of people rolling on a given item somewhat.

 

they then make sure that the toon being rolled on behalf of is in sector & ready to receive any winnings.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I tried to add a further post to say that admittedly, I haven't attended any of these raids yet, so please do excuse my ignorance if anything i've said in my last post is incorrect, or in ignorance.... 

 

I do definitely plan to attend SOON(tm) though

 

sorry if words to this effect appear twice, but I think my second post went missing in the abyss of space...

 

mister MISTER

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I assume you are talking about VGE there.. and that is the same sentiment that BI and Static leadership has expressed... We appreciate that gesture very much... Many of these people have been waiting several months to raid..

I do not recall that person is in VGE . I do not know that person .  But . VGE member's are allowed to help with the raids folk set up as a open pubic raid but we ask the member's of VGE not to roll on any loot . That is to be fair to the players who are not in the big raiding guild's .

 

Best of luck to all raiders.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

we just completed another GoBB Raid, and it went very well.

 

i orgnaised the groups, and the rolls afterwards, and this is how i ran the lotto:

Anyone can bid for an item, as long as they, or the intended alt, can equip that item immediately. and if no one wants the item, then its openen for Free For All.

 

this was to remove the situation where someone can win an item for an alt that cannot use it yet. yes, its not perfect, but it still managed to achieve the desired result. 

1 thing that came up was for FFA items. and while no one really cared, 1 guy got 2 FFA items. an idea for this was, keep all FFA items until last, and EVERYONE rolls. and going from the highest, to the lowest, in order, they get to choose an item from within the FFA list.

i think this idea has merits, and i intend to trial this when im able to.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×