Eliminating Obsolete Gear

[Ryle [N7R]]

So something I have always had a gripe with ever since fishbowl was introduced in live, and GoBB here in the emu is the following:

The sheer amount of obsolete raid gear with this small of a game population is a detractor to active raid participation.

I see items from FB that were considered epic uber in live, sitting spaced floating and never get picked up because no one needs a fury of the tengu or a heart of the dark one.

As we move forward with adding raid content and tweaking, I propose the buffs/DPS/stats of these raid gear items be looked at so there is less of a min/max on what comes out. Being realistic here since there are so few of us, a couple months is all it will take to oufit most people with raidcapped gear even if we were to wipe it out and start over.

Maybe give the Fury of the Tengu/Heart of the Dark One unique buffs that dont appear on the Fury of the Master/Heart of the Master already. Dont overpower so it swings the other way, but do it in a way that makes it equivalent. Say the FOTM having the DPS advantage and keep its turbo/speed/shieldcap buffs, but give the FOTT a unique buff like the reaver's projectile energy conservation/enhanced damage buffs. (get the reaver and then replace it when you participate in the raid with the FOTT), etc.

There should be ways to mix and match instead of the one I-Win setup everyone uses currently (FOTM/Spitter/FlechO/BB/Biles with an intolerance). Or DG/GoD/Streak/DPs. Or SmitersWrath/Caster/Biles or whatever have you for whatever race.

More choice is always good, and a lot of other raid level gear (RD base comes to mind) needs tweaking as well. Make everything that drops from the raids have purpose and that "i gotta have that" charm again, because really its becoming a one and done sorta mentality in raids. You only gotta do it once and youve got all the best gear for that toon, usually. Edited July 5, 2012 by Ryle

[Ryle [N7R]]

Realistically this applies to way more than raid gear (so many items in the game had no use because skills are broken, theres a better option, or theres no reason for it since the buff it gives is included on another item youd be equipping anyway), but this is a place to start.

One major thing to look at with drops that are unique/non-manu is that they shouldnt be so ridiculously outclassed by generic PM gear of the same level. Why use one of the unique PLs at say level 5 from some of those CL25 bosses when youd just be getting less DPS/nothing useful out of the deal by equipping it over a rifle.

Haralds Berserk (level 6 PL unique) is a great example of this. Ok you get a +25 chem deflect, which would be covered by an Ivory Ward or many other devices/shields around the same tech level. Or to some extent by combat trance if youre a PW. The weapon does 21.25 DPS and requires a unique ammo for it that means more hold space for its ammo. PM mortars or rifles do about 40DPS and in the case of the rifle also have crit and accuracy buffs, and with multiple damage types. Berserk ammo IIRC only comes in chem.

Unique/Boss drop items should always perform at the same level if not outclass a PM made item. I mean you can only equip one, so its not like youre killing the PM market at all, but theres absolutely no incentive to have the item at this point. (give a 100 percent Heralds Berserk 39.5 DPS, 10% projectile energy conservation, 25 Chem deflect, and maybe 10 percent turbo and see how sought after it becomes) Edited July 5, 2012 by Ryle

[AZdexter]

whens the next raid?? I am sure I could use some of that floating gear...

[GenghisBob]

Spaeking of obsolete or worthless gear, how about level 9 devices that decrease cloaking time by 1.3 seconds to a 3 second limit. Doesn't everyone already have 3 second cloaking by the time they get to level 9 devices?

And way too much high level gear increases a skill by 3+ levels but there is a level 10 cap on most (all?) skills which makes many of them pretty useless.

Are we ever going to lose the the skills (and other) caps?

[Kenu [CDEV]]

we could always make the weaker stuff easier to get and the stronger stuff harder to get so you might be more inclined to get the weaker stuff first.

[jrichards]

or even make the weaker stuff tradable......hey wait a second. Is the current system, which works very similarly to Live, even broken?

In Live you had several of the 'lower' level Fury items (3-6+) and only a few (1-3) of the Master items. Generally first time raiders/alts would get the lower level Fury item, as there were a lot more of them, until they could upgrade to a Master item. Once a player had a master item they generally spaced the fury item. This is gear progression. I don't see any issue with the current system and really don't think there is any reason to adjust the stats on any sets of weapons just so those people that do raids can use more raid items. If there are un-looted items, and Raiders feel bad about spacing it, then always announce it in market. Occasionally this does happen. Unlike Live any player can enter a FB even after the Master is dead and pickup loot.

Are there a lot of 'useless' items in the game. Yes and no. Some items have a very very specific uses, others are really just an additional item to print, and others simply cannot be used.......yet Before altering or removing all this 'so called' useless gear do we really want the devs to have to wade through all of that gear now and make the decision? What happens if that useless gear becomes useful if/when content is added? Will devs have to go back and re-add it? It would seem to me, if we are hitting beta, to fix any items that are not working but not to change them. If and when the Devs say we are ready to go Live, and if they are willing, would be the time to look at modifying existing items. However, and this is a big however, I love that there are tons of items in the game.

Personally I am more annoyed with the 'way overpowered' items that were not in Live (examples: proto gear, Made to Live, Caster items, etc). I love that people argue about what is best to use and that they actually have compelling reasons behind it.....even if those reasons cannot yet be proven due to game functionality not yet working. If the devs start to remove or alter items, that were present in Live, just because some people believe its useless, who does this really help? Edited July 11, 2012 by Crichton

[Ryle [N7R]]

Hm, I think a lot of where I am trying to come from with this... isnt so much removing items as making the less desirable on par.

Every day you see about 20 posts in newplayers/market asking the same question (whats the best item x for level y for profession z) and its always the same thing. Example: Draco 5 for JE at reactor tech 5. Why? Because its the one with the highest cap/recharge and has that equippable reactor recharge buff. Every other reactor is "less useful" save the unicorn/kracken for warp buffing.

The goal is to take out some of the min/max, know what I mean? Give some serious template/build setups instead of the same cookie cutter everyone uses because its the "one best way to get it all with no downside" and so on.

[Terrell [BT]]

[quote name='Ryle' timestamp='1341939201' post='60294']
Hm, I think a lot of where I am trying to come from with this... isnt so much removing items as making the less desirable on par.

Every day you see about 20 posts in newplayers/market asking the same question (whats the best item x for level y for profession z) and its always the same thing. Example: Draco 5 for JE at reactor tech 5. Why? Because its the one with the highest cap/recharge and has that equippable reactor recharge buff. Every other reactor is "less useful" save the unicorn/kracken for warp buffing.

The goal is to take out some of the min/max, know what I mean? Give some serious template/build setups instead of the same cookie cutter everyone uses because its the "one best way to get it all with no downside" and so on.
[/quote]

Definitely, that also applies to JW & JT. For a Jenquai mining or performing combat, the reactor to choose at L2-L3 Gallina, L4 Gallina or Draco, L5-L6 Draco, L7+ Cygnus. There really isn't much other choice before L9 unless you get a rare reactor. It's a solid line, and should probably stay, but some varying choices along the line that can realistically compete would be good. All of those reactors buff Beam Range, and Reactor Recharge (activated). The Cygnus; however, has the least useful of the Reactor Recharge buffs, as applied to self, because it has a very short duration, and doesn't result in a net energy increase for self-use.

[jrichards]

There are actually several non Jen reactors that have better recharge but that, due to the recharge buff on the draco and gallina are not worth it for the JD and JS. The JE's ability to use the fornax and scutums makes the gallina and draco actually not the best choice to make at lower levels....but most players tend to go with whats easiest/the consensus...even if its wrong. At Level 7 I found the Cygnus to be an awful reactor when compared to the Veil.....but many people still think the cygnus is better due to cap. I live by recharge; if it never runs out it doesn't matter what the cap is....but I know I am in the minority.

So whats the real reason players use these reactors? The reactor recharge buff. Now since the JS gets a reactor skill they could likely get away with not using these reactors.....but the JD is really stuck. Unfortunately I really would prefer that players, that do not group with other players that can buff their reactor's, have to deal with reactor issues and need to find/equip the proper devices/weapons to nullify the issue they have. Regardless of what gear is added/modified there will always be a 'best' set of gear to use. There is no way around min/maxing in an MMO. At the moment all the best gear, that is PM, can and is made at F7 by a few players so their isn't much of a challenge.

It would be interesting to see a type of 'set' gear be implemented. IE: when you equip two pieces of a set you get a certain bonus, add another piece and you gain another bonus. When only having a single item it may not be worth it but upon gaining a second item it becomes better than the standard gear. Or having printable AA and proto gear....maybe based on missions/faction so not all players can use it/equip it. At this point in the EMU though I wouldn't want the devs spending time on this as it can/will likely further prevent balance from being achieved. I do think that a lot of people are way over-geared with items that are overpowered for their level and for the mobs that are currently in the EMU. I would remind everyone that there are still a large number of items that are not working in the game including item buffs. Once these are fixed it may open up more 'alternate' gear use. Edited July 11, 2012 by Crichton

[Gordo]

[quote][color=#D3D3D3][font=Helvetica, arial, sans-serif][background=rgb(51, 51, 51)] [b]when you equip two pieces of a set you get a certain bonus, add another piece and you gain another bonus[/b].[/background][/font][/color][/quote]


Excellent idea.