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Power Down

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Does anyone use it in its current state? If so, how do you utilize it?



I always thought power down could be sweet if it had a little something else....


I have two ideas for solo combat or mining.

1. At max level you recharge shields and reactors [i]faster[/i] than normal.
2. At max level you could activate power down and it would drop aggro.


This one is a long shot, but may make the PS more valuable is groups.

2. When activated at max level, it allows team members faster than normal shield and reactor recharge.

Of course, i don't condone being in PD mode during group play :) but if the recharge was worth it, it may be something to look into




Anyone have any other ideas?

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not sure if they updated power down, but it certainly needs something, did not even work very well with mobs at the same level last time i used it.

It should be able to decrease agro i think, might need a redesign but i think it should work alot more than it appeared to, not sure it should regen shield and things that fast though, but i think the best way to balance it would be to have atime limit on how long you can stay in PD mode and possibly use it. Say like a 1.5 min time limit for PD in use (your powered down, life support too only that long before you die:) and make it you actually die!) and say 2 min reuse time. For this it works almost all the time at higher levels. It can not however be spamed and there will be a sort period where you can not PD.

This would I think make it better to use, while not overpowering it?

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PD has worked fine for me thus far. I've had no issues with it and it is functioning as described. Since the Sentinel is one of the few classes who's abilities all work I must question those who suddenly feel that we need to start tinkering with their abilities. How about we get ALL class abilities working properly, mobs functioning properly (having actual reactor amounts to sap etc.) and go from there? It's hard to actually do a realistic test of abilities until such a thing occurs.
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[quote name='Illydar' timestamp='1312659038' post='44141']
PD has worked fine for me thus far. I've had no issues with it and it is functioning as described. Since the Sentinel is one of the few classes who's abilities all work I must question those who suddenly feel that we need to start tinkering with their abilities.[/quote]

IIRC, on live Power Down did have a small chance to shed aggro. I remember a few times I would warp away from a foe, Power Down, and then sit and see if he stopped flashing yellow. If he didn't, I would power up, kick in free warp and put a bit more distance between us and power down again. Nine times out of ten this would shake off a guard I picked up while mining. (And I had Bogeril Solar Sails, so I had a very low signature for a Progen. I could usually slip back in once the guard lost interest)

It only worked against single foes, though, it would never be useful in combat. And I don't know if that feature of the skill made it here. For all I know, losing aggro after a certain amount of time was a feature of all classes, not Power Down.

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I use it on my PS all the time even though I only have level 1 PD. It works for me about 90% of the time though I only really use it against CL20 and below. I use it as an escape and I also use it to send mob aggro to group members who have more shields remaining when I'm too low. I also use it for going afk in dangerous areas. Quite a useful skill, plus it looks so darn cool :(

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I think what the OP is asking is more along the lines of...

If I'm going to spend all those skillpoints to max it to L7 why do I get so little for it past L1?

The current PD would be suitable to have just one level like CC and CF...

The skill is so situational as well, useful only for AFK-ing when u smell pizza burning in the oven...

It would be nicer if the skill lowered signature for a short while to amounts that are equal to cloaking, allowing you to travel safely with reduced speed past an area or mine a roid while not being interrupted.

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[quote name='Gummy' timestamp='1308261404' post='42203']
Does anyone use it in its current state? If so, how do you utilize it?
[/quote]

Power Down on my PS is at level one as well. I use an Energy Sink Octo (Improved PD +4.69 levels), and at the moment, a Sumter VIII shield (Improved PD +74% chance of success).

I mainly use it to drop aggro when hunting Chavez in Glenn. They always stop attacking and start heading back to their original pathing. This gives me time to start looting and give my shields time to recharge while they are on their way back. Then it's basically rinse and repeat.

I also use it in area's like Antares. Let the "tank" gain aggro, then start firing. I interpret that as part of it's intended use and it works fine in that situation.

[quote name='Gummy' timestamp='1308261404' post='42203']
Anyone have any other ideas?
[/quote]

A short damage bonus like what Jenquai have with Combat Cloak would be something to consider.

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[quote name='Cobra' timestamp='1313941906' post='45003']
A short damage bonus like what Jenquai have with Combat Cloak would be something to consider.
[/quote]

I don't really think Progen need any sort of damage bonus. The Jenquai need a damage bonus because they have less weapon slots than Progen (both Warrior and Explorer) and considerably weaker shields. The Progen have the best offense in the game, even with their non-Warriors, and skills like Critical Targetting to give them damage boosts.

That said, I think the idea of giving them a lower engine signature is an EXCELLENT idea. There are already a selection of skills, with the higher level ones adding shield and reactor recharge, but maybe one of the skills could be traded for a "partial power down", in which you have half speed and no shields, (or cuts shield recharge) but your signature is cut in half. It's not a cloak, but it'll help you slip around while mining.

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The siggy lowering thing would be even nicer for the Terran Explorer. They are nearly as fragile as a JE, but can neither cloak or teleport the mob away like the JE, nor can they powerdown, menace, just smash a mob's face in like the PE. They have blazing speed, but need a little abilty to sneak around, since taking hits of any kind interrupts prospecting.

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[quote name='Terrell' timestamp='1314041285' post='45056']
The siggy lowering thing would be even nicer for the Terran Explorer. They are nearly as fragile as a JE, but can neither cloak or teleport the mob away like the JE, nor can they powerdown, menace, just smash a mob's face in like the PE. They have blazing speed, but need a little abilty to sneak around, since taking hits of any kind interrupts prospecting.
[/quote]

I wonder about that. They have Afterburn, but you'd think that would attract MORE attention, not less, with all that roaring noise. :D (Don't know if it increases signature or not) It does seem as if the Scouts are the weakest at the actual act of prospecting, though. (It would make sense if that's why they took so long to form as a faction, but I'm not sure if that's intended)

The TE has some advantages the JE doesn't, though. For one thing, he can take out MOBs from a distance before even entering the field. Second, he DOES have good shields, and can get even better if he goes to a Progen. Plus, he's got HULL PATCH. That's got to be huge when it comes to surviving a MOB attack while mining.

Finally, while the Progen is stuck plodding around the field on his slow engines, making a racket (he can go to a Terran for his engines, but will STILL make a racket) the Terran has the option to go with Jenquai engines. So the Terran has a choice that will lower his signature, OR he can go for speed and just dart in and duck out before he is spotted. The Progen can only lower his signature with either Power Down, or the Bogeril Solar Sails. (Which I used to use, myself :D)

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[quote name='Dragoncove' timestamp='1314043736' post='45058']
I wonder about that. They have Afterburn, but you'd think that would attract MORE attention, not less, with all that roaring noise. :D (Don't know if it increases signature or not) It does seem as if the Scouts are the weakest at the actual act of prospecting, though. (It would make sense if that's why they took so long to form as a faction, but I'm not sure if that's intended) [/QUOTE]

What roaring noise? Sound needs a medium to travel, so engines in the vacuum of space would actually be silent from the point of view of someone not onboard the ship. At least in terms of sound.

[quote name='Dragoncove' timestamp='1314043736' post='45058']
The TE has some advantages the JE doesn't, though. For one thing, he can take out MOBs from a distance before even entering the field. Second, he DOES have good shields, and can get even better if he goes to a Progen. Plus, he's got HULL PATCH. That's got to be huge when it comes to surviving a MOB attack while mining. [/quote]

Terran Scouts don't get L9 shields. While they can use Progen shields, while leveling up, at end game levels they aren't going to be able to use a shield better than the Dragon's Dread Mail VIII which has a cap of 45776 and an increase shield cap buff of + 9,860.00 Shield Capacity when equipped. The JE can also use this shield.

If we're going to go with the class specific shields, the Hyperian Frontier's Friend vs the Veiled Oyoroi, the HFF has better cap, the VO has better recharge. The Sentinel is the only explorer that gets L9 shields.

Source N7 Database:

Veiled Oyoroi
L8 Shield
Jenquai Only
Explorer Only
Cap: 43029
Recharge: 327.00 (441.45)

Buffs
Increased Reactor Capacity
Improved Cloaking
Improve Prospect
Scan Boost

Hyperian Frontier's Friend
L8 Shield
Terran Only
Explorer Only
Cap: 47580
Recharge: 305.90 (412.965)

Buffs:
Hull Patch
Improved Hacking
Improve Prospect
Scan Boost

You can fight off mob guardians with a JE, even over your combat level, with a Coma device and the right tactics. If you're having to use hull patch to survive a fight against an orefield guardian, you're also over time degrading the quality of your equipment.

[quote name='Dragoncove' timestamp='1314043736' post='45058']
Finally, while the Progen is stuck plodding around the field on his slow engines, making a racket (he can go to a Terran for his engines, but will STILL make a racket) the Terran has the option to go with Jenquai engines. So the Terran has a choice that will lower his signature, OR he can go for speed and just dart in and duck out before he is spotted. The Progen can only lower his signature with either Power Down, or the Bogeril Solar Sails. (Which I used to use, myself :D)
[/quote]

The Sentinel is lacking in reduce sig buffs compared to the Scout, but the Sentinel does have around 2x the shields of a Scout at max level and has Crit 5 for significantly more firepower. The JE has the advantage of a much smaller base racial sig, than the other 2 explorers. JE also doesn't have to use hold space for ammo, and can teleport mobs away if necessary.

Base sig (explorers):
JE = 0.5
TE = 2.5
PE = 2.5

The PE & JE also will get access to a device called Loony's Special Gizmoblatsit. If it's like it was in Live, the device is Terran Restricted, Explorers Only. A JE with this device and a Solar Sail engine will have a signature of 0.1. It was a mission reward that was given at 200% quality, from Lyle McDonald in DT.

Now visibility & aggro may need more work, before having a lower sig is more advantageous.

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[quote name='Terrell' timestamp='1314046915' post='45062']
What roaring noise? Sound needs a medium to travel, so engines in the vacuum of space would actually be silent from the point of view of someone not onboard the ship. At least in terms of sound.
[/quote]

I'm sorry, I thought it was obvious I was poking fun at Afterburn. :)

And you are right about the shields, I forgot about that. Still, the Jenquai's weak shields are a racial trait that can be overcome with the use of Terran or Pirate shields, and the TS conversely can use Progen shields while the JE can't. So while there is one best case example of the JE having the same shields as the TS, in general the TS is designed to have stronger shielding.

CERTAINLY the shields of a TS will never measure up to a PS. But then Power Down eliminates the advantage of stronger shields anyway. So it comes down to the TS getting away while still having the shielding to make its escape.

Power Down isn't really a Cloak, it is more of an "avoidance" skill, for which the more likely Jenquai counterpart would be Fold Space. So in that light, I think Afterburn would be the TS version.

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The difference in the Scout vs the Explorer shields are generally marginal, since Jenquai aren't going to tend to use our own shields. Depending on what's available, we'll use Terran, blacksun, and at L8 Mordana or other shields. Other than Progen shields there aren't many L8 shields a Scout can use that a JE cannot.

The Dread Mail elite isn't the only good shield that is usable by both a Scout & a JE. Most of the good L8 shields can be used by both, and the L8 Jen Restricted shields aren't all that, compared to most of the other shields. There are a couple of Jenquai shields with poor caps at that level, but they're unlikely to be used. So I'd hold the argument that the Scout is almost as fragile as the JE. This would also hold for some pretty crappy Terran and Loot shields as well.

Here are all the L8 shields available in the DB, race/class restrictions shown

L8 Shields

Barrier of Slime 8 Cap: 45776 Recharge: 332.70 (All)
Black Force 8 Cap: 45831 Recharge: 330.00 (All)
Bunyip Guarding Crainium Cap: 37536 Recharge: 201.00 (All)
Buzz Asylum Cap: 40283 Recharge (200%): 330.00 (445.50) (All)
Deadly Barrier Cap: 43029 Recharge: 291.00 (All)
Defender's Doumaru: Cap: 45776 Recharge (200%): 272.90 (368.42) + 8,360.00 Cap buff, (JW Only)
Dragon's Dread Mail Elite MK VIII Cap: 45776 Recharge: 327.00 (cap buff + 9,860.00) (All)
Fiery Seraphim Cap: 43029 Recharge (200%): 272.90 (368.42) (All)
Gettysburg Gamma Cap: 43029 Recharge (200%): 182.60 (246.51 (Jen Restricted)
Glorious Kimono Cap: 44904 Recharge (200%): 327.00 (441.45) (JT Only)
Golden Kimono Cap: 21057 Recharge (200%): 236.80 (319.68) (Progen Restricted)
Hankering String Of Heart: Cap: 37536 Recharge: 327.00 (All)
Hyperian Frontier's Friend Cap: 47580 Recharge (200%): 305.90 (412.97) (Scout Only)
Impenetrable Bastion Cap: 48064 Recharge: 343.30 (All)
More Amazing Shield Model Z Cap: 40283 Recharge (200%): 254.80 (343.98) (All)
Normandy Tria Cap: 45776 Recharge (200%): 254.80 (343.98) (Progen Only)
Pr2s2rv2r Sh32ld - F4rm 8 (L8) Cap: 45776 Recharge: 272.80 (All)
Prototype SU 8: Cap: 49209 Recharge: 343.30 (All)
Samauri Yoroi Shield Cap: 23804 Recharge (200%): 236.80 (319.68) (Progen Restricted)
SH-X3 "Greyhound" Mk. VIII (L8) Cap: 26550 Recharge (200%): 236.80 (319.68) (All)
SH-X6 "Doberman" Mk. VIII (L8) Cap: 26550 Recharge (200%): 236.80 (319.68) (All)
SH-X9 "Great Dane" Mk. VIII (L8)Cap: 34790 Recharge (200%): 290.90 (392.72) (All)
Skirmish Beta Cap: 42416 Recharge (200%): 275.00 (371.25) (All?)
Sumpter VIII Cap: 43029 Recharge (200%): 272.90 (368.42) (Progen Only)
V'rix Modified Golden Kimono Cap: 23804 Recharge: 236.80 (All)
Veiled Oyoroi Cap: 43029 Recharge (200%): 327.00 (441.45) (JE Only)
Vindis Beam Focus Cap: 29297 Recharge: 212.90 (Jenquai Only)
Vindis Damage Focus Cap: 29297 Recharge: 212.90 (PE Only)
Vindis Missile Focus Cap 29297 Recharge 212.90 (TW Only)
Vindis Projectile Focus Cap: 29297 Recharge: 212.90 (PW Only)
Vindis Protection Focus Cap: 29297 Recharge: 212.90 (TT Only)
Yokozuna Sumo Shield M8 (L8)Cap: 21057 Recharge (200%): 236.80 (319.68)(Progen Restricted)
Zenrei Force Matrix Cap: 45776 Recharge: 327.00 (All)

As you can see from the L8 shields that are in the DB there isn't a shield that the Scout can use that the JE cannot that's better than the Hyperian Frontier's Friend, as far as cap/recharge are concerned. Even the Progen shields aren't an issue here. The Scout has margainally better shields, when using their class specific shield than the JE, but the differences aren't all that big. When you deviate from that even going Progen doesn't give the Scout much of an advantage over the JE in terms of cap/recharge. Both classes also have means to avoid damage, JE with the Coma, Cloaking, low sig, and Fold Space, Scout with kiting/afterburn. Scout has more room for error than JE, but really isn't able to take fire more than margainally better, particularily at high level.

How would Power Down eliminate the advantage of stronger shields? Unless the skill causes the shields to drop, having stronger shields would give you a better chance of survival if the mob isn't fooled. Stronger Shields also means you're less likely to need to use powerdown.

I'd say that Afterburn and Navigate are escape skills, though Afterburn is dual use in kiting and keeping your distance. For Jenquai Cloak & Fold Space have both offensive & defensive uses, while Navigate could be called the "running away skill". I don't really see an offensive use for Powerdown. I don't think it should be just for going afk, so I do think there should be a pretty good chance of fooling the mob and making him go away.

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[quote name='Terrell' timestamp='1314141717' post='45131']
I'd say that Afterburn and Navigate are escape skills, though Afterburn is dual use in kiting and keeping your distance. For Jenquai Cloak & Fold Space have both offensive & defensive uses, while Navigate could be called the "running away skill". I don't really see an offensive use for Powerdown. I don't think it should be just for going afk, so I do think there should be a pretty good chance of fooling the mob and making him go away.
[/quote]

Navigate? The skill that increases your warp speed? Granted, it may effect thrust speed, my days of studiously learning every single minor detail about this game are long gone, and my memory is really rusty. I don't know if there is an online knowledge base that can list the individual skills and their effects for me. Still, I'm pretty sure the main advantage of Navigate is to cut down time on Trade Runs. It's useful to Explorers, as well, to allow them to faster cover sectors and earn Explore XP. But to escape from MOBs?

The only thing I can think of that applies is the time it takes to go into warp. Which I believe Navigate effects. But once you are IN warp, it doesn't matter if your speed is 2000 or 6000, you are pretty much OUT of combat...

I have to say the same thing about shields. Yes, the difference in shielding is marginal. But it is not your shields, but how well they can hold up while you get away. And yes, I thought Power Down dropped your shields. I forgot the upper levels left them up. (The reason why I always engaged warp before using Power Down)

Compared to the Jenquai ability to Fold Space, and the thrust speed of the Scout, the Sentinel really does not have the capability to escape from combat so readily. And the Jenquai and Sentinel need to be close to the foe before engaging him in combat. The Scout has the option to engage the foe, decide that he's outclassed, and move on before the MOB can even get close to him.

Now, if you think that the Scout doesn't have enough options to reduce its signature, that's fine. That's the devs' fault for introducing a device without taking into consideration classes that weren't in the game. Or maybe they did, all the Scouts' options for reducing his signature reduce his speed, which reduce his ability to evade MOBs. Which again, if the Scout were to have a power that reduces his speed but cuts his signature, I wouldn't be against that. But I wonder if it would be worth the trade. Edited by Dragoncove

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[quote name='Dragoncove' timestamp='1314223000' post='45167']
Navigate? The skill that increases your warp speed? Granted, it may effect thrust speed, it's been a long time since I studiously learned every single minor detail about this game, and my memory is really rusty. I don't know if there is an online knowledge base that can list the individual skills and their effects for me. Still, I'm pretty sure the main advantage of Navigate is to cut down time on Trade Runs. It's useful to Explorers, as well, to allow them to faster cover sectors and earn Explore XP. But to escape from MOBs?

The only thing I can think of that applies is the time it takes to go into warp. Which I believe Navigate effects. But once you are IN warp, it doesn't matter if your speed is 2000 or 6000, you are pretty much OUT of combat...
[/QUOTE]

Navigate 5+ does increase your impulse speed.

Navigate matters in making your escape quickly, since you can take damage while your while warp engines are powering up. With max Navigate, and a high level Laz a JE or Terran Scout can have near instant engage/cooldown times on their warp engines. This is VERY useful for running away, L7 should also be able to break being gravity linked. Also in Live Warp Engage could be interrupted, don't know if the emu devs plan for that to happen here.

If you're under heavy attack, being able to engage your warp engines a few seconds faster may mean the difference between escape and needing a jumpstart. That's why I see Navigate as a running away skill.

[quote name='Dragoncove' timestamp='1314223000' post='45167']I have to say the same thing about shields. Yes, the difference in shielding is marginal. But it is not your shields, but how well they can hold up while you get away. And yes, I thought Power Down dropped your shields. I forgot the upper levels left them up. (The reason why I always engaged warp before using Power Down)[/QUOTE]

If power down drops your shields, then yeah, that would be a problem. It might not be a good idea to do that when you're under attack. Does it reduce your shields to zero, or just stop recharge? Shields usually don't recharge during combat, at least not if you're taking damage.

[quote name='Dragoncove' timestamp='1314223000' post='45167']
Compared to the Jenquai ability to Fold Space, and the thrust speed of the Scout, the Sentinel really does not have the capability to escape from combat so readily. And the Jenquai and Sentinel need to be close to the foe before engaging him in combat. The Scout has the option to engage the foe, decide that he's outclassed, and move on before the MOB can even get close to him. [/QUOTE]

The Sentinel instead has much better ability to dish out and take damage than either of the other two explorers. With critical 5 each shot a PE takes has a 50% chance of hitting for double damage, before buffs. The JE and Scout have less than 10% chance of critical hits, absent items that buff critical hits. The JE and Scout need more ablity to run away because they're both more vulnerable to attack, and have less firepower. I'd argue that the Scout may in some ways be more vulnerable than the JE, since the JE is both stealthier and able to cloak, and has the reactor to do it easily.

Sentinels also have the ability to make their enemies run from them.

The Scout does have an advantage in that ML users do not have to face their target.


[quote name='Dragoncove' timestamp='1314223000' post='45167']Now, if you think that the Scout doesn't have enough options to reduce its signature, that's fine. That's the devs' fault for introducing a device without taking into consideration classes that weren't in the game. Or maybe they did, all the Scouts' options for reducing his signature reduce his speed, which reduce his ability to evade MOBs. Which again, if the Scout were to have a power that reduces his speed but cuts his signature, I wouldn't be against that. But I wonder if it would be worth the trade.
[/quote]

I think there were some storyline reasons behind that particular device being restricted from Scouts. Remember that the Bogeril hate the Terrans, though they hate the Enforcers the most, they probably hate InfinitiCorp & Hyperia as well. Since the device was around in Live and also had the Terran Restricted tag, even though there wasn't a Terran Scout to use it, I think that the live devs had intended it not be available to Terran Explorers, should EA had ever changed their minds and given the live devs the resources to implement the 3 missing classes.

Ultimately the Scout will have more equipment than they currently do, how much of that can be used by the other 2 explorer classes remains to be seen. Maybe the PE will get some love indirectly, as more equimpent is introduced by GETCo or Hyperia that was intended to primarily benefit the Scout, but the JE or PE may also find useful.

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[quote name='Terrell' timestamp='1314225797' post='45175']
If you're under heavy attack, being able to engage your warp engines a few seconds faster may mean the difference between escape and needing a jumpstart. That's why I see Navigate as a running away skill.[/quote]

I think what I was trying to say is that the utility of the power as a running away skill is minor compared to things like Fold Space and Afterburn, which will actually GET you away faster. Granted, though, a quick jump to warp can be the best way to escape from danger.

[quote]If power down drops your shields, then yeah, that would be a problem. It might not be a good idea to do that when you're under attack. Does it reduce your shields to zero, or just stop recharge? Shields usually don't recharge during combat, at least not if you're taking damage. [/quote]

Honestly, you're making me question whether they do or not. I suppose I would have to check in game.

I want to say they drop though. The idea that shields and reactor recharge at high levels of Power Down is that they DON'T normally. So when you power back up, your shields and reactor are back to full, instead of having to run even further away. Having your shields up while powered down and having them recharge as well, well, I would think it would work that way. And as you said, you shouldn't regenerate shields if you are taking hits anyway.

[quote]The Scout does have an advantage in that ML users do not have to face their target.[/quote]

The Scout also has Hull Patch, as I said. I will need to check whether the Scout has the same weapon slots as an Explorer, or somewhere between an Explorer and a Trader.

I see the Scout as something like the Jenquai Defender, though. It's not as heavily armed as a Warrior or even an Enforcer, but he's designed specifically for being small, fast and light, lightly armed and shielded, but built for singling out foes and taking them out one by one. And unlike the Defender, who has to strike at point blank range like an assassin, the Scout is kiting at a distance, like an archer. He should take less damage because mostly what his foes will be hitting him with will be missiles. (Or goo spit, as the organics tend to shoot :()

If a Scout is as weak in combat as a Jenquai Explorer, I will be VERY disappointed in the class. We already have a Jenquai Explorer, we don't need another one. :P

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I will say that certainly the Warrior is the strongest Combat class in the game. The Privateer, probably comes very close to that, though. Low weapons, but strong shields, so depending on what his secondary skills are, he's probably very close to the Warrior in what he can take.

The other two warriors and the Sentinel comes next. The Sentinel is effectively as well armed as the Defender and Enforcer. He's only got slightly less weapon slots at the very highest level. So the Progen get the top two slots, and one of the next three as well.

That leaves the Trader, the Scout, the Seeker and the Explorer. The Trader is clearly better in combat than the Explorer, he hasn't got much by way of weapons, but he's a tank. The Seeker at least has the advantage over the Explorer in that he can heal himself, but since he doesn't get missiles (I never really expected them to, but kinda hoped...) it's arguable whether he's better than the Scout. He's clearly not better than the Trader. So the question is where the Scout fits, down there with the Explorer, at which time we've kind of got the Trader sitting there in the midpoint alone, or up with the Trader, at which time the Seeker would be down at the low end of combat ability with the Explorer.

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[quote name='Dragoncove' timestamp='1314230546' post='45181']
I think what I was trying to say is that the utility of the power as a running away skill is minor compared to things like Fold Space and Afterburn, which will actually GET you away faster. Granted, though, a quick jump to warp can be the best way to escape from danger.

Honestly, you're making me question whether they do or not. I suppose I would have to check in game.
[/QUOTE]

If you REALLY need to get away, insta warp out of danger is the best way to do so. Fold Space & Cloak will be interruptable when the game is more developed. Afterburn makes you move faster at impulse and warp, but it's best attribute is a small chance that the enemy will miss. (I think it's like 5% or so at Ludicrous Speed)

It's been a while since Live. I tried the PE near the end of live, thought it was a pretty cool class and fun to play, wish it had a little better choice of reactors when leveling up, at least as far as mining was concerned. Fighting she was cool.

[quote name='Dragoncove' timestamp='1314230546' post='45181']I want to say they drop though. The idea that shields and reactor recharge at high levels of Power Down is that they DON'T normally. So when you power back up, your shields and reactor are back to full, instead of having to run even further away. Having your shields up while powered down and having them recharge as well, well, I would think it would work that way. And as you said, you shouldn't regenerate shields if you are taking hits anyway.[/QUOTE]

When you are under fire you shields don't recharge either. I think it makes sense that it doesn't recharge your shields at the lowest levels, otherwise you would not have an incentive to raise the skill level.


[quote name='Dragoncove' timestamp='1314230546' post='45181']
The Scout also has Hull Patch, as I said. I will need to check whether the Scout has the same weapon slots as an Explorer, or somewhere between an Explorer and a Trader. [/QUOTE]

Scout has 4 weapons and 5 devices. Devs switched them from 3W6D because it was too weak. Scouts and JEs get their shield upgrades at the same level. Don't forget that skill interruption, as far as players are concerned doesn't really happen yet (I've only noticed it in prospecting).

[quote name='Dragoncove' timestamp='1314230546' post='45181']I see the Scout as something like the Jenquai Defender, though. It's not as heavily armed as a Warrior or even an Enforcer, but he's designed specifically for being small, fast and light, lightly armed and shielded, but built for singling out foes and taking them out one by one. And unlike the Defender, who has to strike at point blank range like an assassin, the Scout is kiting at a distance, like an archer. He should take less damage because mostly what his foes will be hitting him with will be missiles. (Or goo spit, as the organics tend to shoot :() [/QUOTE]

The Scout is nowhere close to the JW in ability to fight. JW has more weapons, has L7 Crits, can debuff Plasma better than Scout can, (L9 Chim vs L5 Rada). JW also has access to the Coma line of devices(as all Jenquai do) which can blind the enemy effectively shortening the enemy's weapon range. Psi Shield the ability to summon mobs to him, shoot them, then teleport them away. You can avoid a lot of damage with a Jenquai by using L3 Fold Space to teleport an enemy away after you shoot him. Then cloak close and attack again. Not to mention, Teleport enemy (JE/JW/JT) will teleport the enemy in the direction you are facing, this is quite useful for getting mobs away from their buddies. (Thanks again Rolo for fixing it)

The Scout is an Explorer with Trader race traits. They get a bigger cargo hold, Negotiate 5 and more versatility in that they can use equipment from all 3 races. Like Sentinels, Scouts cannot make Ammo, with the exception of the threader devices that Sentinels can use.

[quote name='Dragoncove' timestamp='1314230546' post='45181']
If a Scout is as weak in combat as a Jenquai Explorer, I will be VERY disappointed in the class. We already have a Jenquai Explorer, we don't need another one. :P
[/quote]

The Scout is margainally better in combat than the JE. It has one more weapon slot, is faster, and can kite with missiles. The JE has Shield Leech which can take shields from the emeny and turn it into reactor power. The Scout has no comparable skill, but the Scout does have access to debuffers in both Explosive & Plasma.

Scout v Sentinel in the Arena? My money is on the Sentinel, provided they're both of comparable level, and both are of similar competence with their toons. Sentinel Grav links Scout, then menaces him, then pounds him into oblivion.

The JT actually can fight pretty effectively solo, it takes patience, debuffers, and Fold Space. She gets debuffers for enemy's scan range (Coma), her energy beams (Manticore), and her plasma beams (Chimaera), from L3-L9. I'd rank the JT a little below the TT in solo combat, a bit closer when the Coma works properly. Where the JT is lacking is that she doesn't have enough support skills/equipment to reliably get picked over a TT (Sheild Charging, Hull Patch) or PT (Firepower, Menace 5) for a raid group. But the Scout and JT are both somewhere between the TT and JE in combat ability.

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If I'm not mistaken the Hyperian shield is non-manu... Which is the only reason I don't use it, because I can get better buffs from devices and what not. Solo combat on the TS is grueling slow just like a TT without shield recharge. I can imagine if they followed the 3 4 5 weapon mount configurations that the Jenquai have. Meaning the TS would only have 3 missile launchers which would make combat even slower. I do believe they need some type of combat skill other then hacking to balance it out for solo combat. As it stands now it is in my opinion the weakest solo combat class. Even though the JE has fewer weapon slots it has a great combat skill in shield leech. Also the ability to use combat cloak helps them out a great deal as well. I had a much harder time leveling up my TS in combat then my JE. It wasn't till I reached cl40 on my JE that I actually struggled to get combat levels.

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My mistake they made the shield manufacturable... They changed it since I last looked at the database. I may take a look at it now.

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One thing I can add is that the Scout is not finished yet, it is still underdevelopment, while the Explorer underwent two years of live play and balancing. So such things as the Explorer having Shield Leech and the Scout having no such direct damage skill may not always be true. Particularly if it turns out that the Scout does not have the firepower to survive while mining.

Apparently the Scout has already had a combat upgrade because testing proved it to be too weak. Nothing says it can't happen again.

And quit saying a Scout can't compete with a Sentinel for firepower. Of COURSE a Scout can't compete with a Sentinel for firepower, the Sentinel is a PROGEN. :) That's like saying the Defender can't compete with the Enforcer for Trade...

This thread really should get back to the subject, or a new thread started on the Scout. :D

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I'm aware that the Scout can't compete with the Sentinel in fighting due to the differences between a Terran Explorer and a Progen one, that was my point. Scout has the most difficulty with orefield guardians compared to both the other 2 explorers. Prior to attack JE can just cloak, PE can powerdown, and wait for the mob to go away. Scout has fight or flight as it's only options JE can do flight just as good, PE can do fight better. The biggest advantages that the Scout has over the Sentinel is that he can make more profit due to Negotiate 5, and isn't as tight on cargo space. The PE is better otherwise at mining as is the JE. The PT and PM Progen Reactors, makes energy better for all Progen.

Now maybe Power Down might need a higher success rate for breaking off/avoiding combat.

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On the topic (following my own advice :)) here's three tips I wrote down some time ago about Power Down. This pretty much lets you know how I use it.

1) The best time to use Power Down is when something aggroes on you, but before it closes to attack. Warp away from the threat, and when it is just about to go out of your scan range, stop and Power Down. Check and see if the enemy is still flashing red/yellow, and if it is, power up and Power Down again immediately. Repeat this until the foe either stops flashing, or he gets in range, at which time you might as well make your escape.

2) If Power Down is high enough level, you may be able to Power Down in combat, when you are down to about half shields. If the foe is de-aggroed, then you can sit and wait for your shields and reactor to recharge and power back up to attack. If not, though, the don't try for a second attempt, power back up immediately and run for it.

3) While mining, it can be useful to warp into a field and immediately Power Down. Cycle through the asteroids looking for one you want to mine. Power up, warp to it, mine it, and power down again. While you are vulnerable to attack while mining, foes will not aggro while while you are powered down, even if they're on top of you. (Amusingly enough, they will de-buff you if in range, so you'll know you're in danger if they do this) Just wait it out until they move along, then jump to the next asteroid.

Mind you, all of the above was written based on behavior on live, and it may be quite different here. If Power Down doesn't randomly shed aggro then the first two techniques aren't going to work. You may still be able to keep from getting aggro by Powering Down before the foe spots you, though.

I also don't clarify the issue of whether shields drop or not. I would think that if they don't, I would have said that you could keep trying to throw off aggro, but I can't be sure. So I'll still need to check. I noticed someone here mentioning he used it in combat, but then that was when he was teamed with someone else who could take the aggro.

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[quote name='Terrell' timestamp='1314301732' post='45224']
Scout has fight or flight as it's only options[/quote]

The Scout can also clear the MOB BEFORE mining. The Sentinel may choose not to do this because of the time involved. A Sentinel typically has more than enough firepower to handle a MOB, just because the Scout doesn't have as much doesn't mean he can't take on a field guardian of his level...

[quote] The biggest advantages that the Scout has over the Sentinel is that he can make more profit due to Negotiate 5, and isn't as tight on cargo space. [/quote]

This applies to mining as well as trade, the Scout can hold more ore before going back to vendor it, and can make more money off of it.

I'm not arguing, though, that the Scout is the worst at mining. It would be nice if there were exploration missions for which it was better suited, like scouting and infiltration, but unfortunately there is no such system implemented. So "Explorers" are judged by how well they mine, which honestly kind of bugs me.

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[quote name='Dragoncove' timestamp='1314303228' post='45226']
The Scout can also clear the MOB BEFORE mining. The Sentinel may choose not to do this because of the time involved. A Sentinel typically has more than enough firepower to handle a MOB, just because the Scout doesn't have as much doesn't mean he can't take on a field guardian of his level...[/quote]

I didn't say a Scout couldn't take a mob of his own level, all 3 explorers can, with the right setup & tactics, take mobs a little bit over their CL. It just takes a while for the Scout & JE, and time spent fighting, is time not spent mining.

Why would the time involved in clearing a mob out before mining, be a bigger issue for the PE than the Scout? The JE might think that, as might the Scout, but for the PE that doesn't make sense.

[quote name='Dragoncove' timestamp='1314303228' post='45226']
This applies to mining as well as trade, the Scout can hold more ore before going back to vendor it, and can make more money off of it.[/quote]

Terrans are all about the money. How much of an advantage the Scout has in space depends on how much ammo they need compared to the Sentinel. The JE, unless he's running PLs doesn't have to carry any. All explorers can also use beams if they really need the space, and don't think they'll need to do any serious combat.

[quote name='Dragoncove' timestamp='1314303228' post='45226']I'm not arguing, though, that the Scout is the worst at mining. It would be nice if there were exploration missions for which it was better suited, like scouting and infiltration, but unfortunately there is no such system implemented. So "Explorers" are judged by how well they mine, which honestly kind of bugs me.
[/quote]

I agree the Exploration part of the game is in need of greater development. I think the same for trade.

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