Asteroid Nerf question?

[Kyp [LDEV]]

Couple of questions. How long is "temporary"? Could the audit have taken place first and then nerf the questionable fields instead of nerfing all the fields? (if these fields have been in there for a while a couple more days wouldn't kill the "economy", what would really kill the economy is the issue with expensive ammo)

Temporary is until the next content patch in December that Kenu previously mentioned in announcements, when all the xmas stuff comes in.

Could it have been done, possibly, but we didn't know they were there because we weren't receiving the required notifications that they were added, so we knew less than you did. It wasn't until we had a bug reported with a visual glitch while mining that led us to discover one such field like this (the graphic glitch was from the super-abundance of asteroid assets within a tightly confined space). At that point, not knowing how long these had been chomped on we decided it was in the game's best interest to do so. This overabundance of every type of resource, made manufacturing cost nothing for those that knew of these fields, thus allowing them all to control the economy directly. This is an unfair advantage over everyone who doesn't know these locations. Sometimes we have to do something like this to protect the economy, especially to avoid having to have more player wipes in the future. We're trying to avoid them, to avoid them we have to preserve the game in a testable state, which means most conditions need to be normal, the previously mentioned fields were HIGHLY abnormal. If you knew where the fields were, you could have manufactured any ammo you wanted for mere credits, possibly just an hour of your time and the cost to manufacture through the terminal alone.

Also, why the quotes, are there euphemisms for temporary and economy that i'm not aware of?

[Mimir[IS]]

Temporary is until the next content patch in December that Kenu previously mentioned in announcements, when all the xmas stuff comes in.

Could it have been done, possibly, but we didn't know they were there because we weren't receiving the required notifications that they were added, so we knew less than you did. It wasn't until we had a bug reported with a visual glitch while mining that led us to discover one such field like this (the graphic glitch was from the super-abundance of asteroid assets within a tightly confined space). At that point, not knowing how long these had been chomped on we decided it was in the game's best interest to do so. This overabundance of every type of resource, made manufacturing cost nothing for those that knew of these fields, thus allowing them all to control the economy directly. This is an unfair advantage over everyone who doesn't know these locations. Sometimes we have to do something like this to protect the economy, especially to avoid having to have more player wipes in the future. We're trying to avoid them, to avoid them we have to preserve the game in a testable state, which means most conditions need to be normal, the previously mentioned fields were HIGHLY abnormal. If you knew where the fields were, you could have manufactured any ammo you wanted for mere credits, possibly just an hour of your time and the cost to manufacture through the terminal alone.

Also, why the quotes, are there euphemisms for temporary and economy that i'm not aware of?

Weird... If we are talking about the clumps of ores that looked like small planets. Those massive ore spots have been in forever, or it seems so. I think you the Devs need to talk to each other a bit more, as I know of at least 2 devs that knew of these and several GMs And... there have been many posts here on the forum on these as well.

[Kyp [LDEV]]

Weird... If we are talking about the clumps of ores that looked like small planets. Those massive ore spots have been in forever, or it seems so. I think you the Devs need to talk to each other a bit more, as I know of at least 2 devs that knew of these and several GMs And... there have been many posts here on the forum on these as well.

It's not as easy as you'd think when you live all over the world, and the person who placed these knew well that this wasn't to happen. As for the threads, where? I've not seen any, but to be fair I don't really go into the player knowledgebase unless asked to, since that area is for you guys to compile knowledge so if it's there, that would explain why I never knew about it. These fields were intentionally hidden, didn't match anything we had in terms of reality. They're impossible to justify, no matter how long they've been there simply because they were parked on top of each other and had no guardians whatsoever.

In any case, as I have previously stated, the person handling this was told if they entered anything into sectors that are mine, I was to be given a full write up on what was added. I received nothing in any form, yet these things existed in my sectors (as well as others), and I know I didn't put them there. No matter how you slice it, they have to go and/or be reduced to prevent them from breaking the game as it's meant to be played since it would essentially devalue the credit as you know it for all of them to exist in their current state.

In terms of devs and gms you'd have to name them to me, because for sure everyone was surprised when it was discovered.

[Mimir[IS]]

It's not as easy as you'd think when you live all over the world, and the person who placed these knew well that this wasn't to happen. As for the threads, where? I've not seen any, but to be fair I don't really go into the player knowledgebase unless asked to, since that area is for you guys to compile knowledge so if it's there, that would explain why I never knew about it. These fields were intentionally hidden, didn't match anything we had in terms of reality. They're impossible to justify, no matter how long they've been there simply because they were parked on top of each other and had no guardians whatsoever.

In any case, as I have previously stated, the person handling this was told if they entered anything into sectors that are mine, I was to be given a full write up on what was added. I received nothing in any form, yet these things existed in my sectors (as well as others), and I know I didn't put them there. No matter how you slice it, they have to go and/or be reduced to prevent them from breaking the game as it's meant to be played since it would essentially devalue the credit as you know it for all of them to exist in their current state.

In terms of devs and gms you'd have to name them to me, because for sure everyone was surprised when it was discovered.

nope, I wont name names, but when I get back to my main computer will see if I can find the thread.

[MJALowe]

Quotes on "temporary" I can see....ahh those wonderful memories of EverQuest, "Temporary" nerfs and new things coming "Soon"

Economy...well....the "economy" of a game wont exist all that well till there are definatly gona be no more wipes so I can understand puting ecomony in quotes.

kinda like calling something temporary when it isn't, or an economy when it doesn't work like an economy (only MMO I've played that has a really really well done "economy" is eve, WoW has one, but all it would take to ruin it is a massive influx of cash or alot of players leaving...in eve those things wouldn't destroy the economy)

[Hexersup[IS]]

In terms of devs and gms you'd have to name them to me, because for sure everyone was surprised when it was discovered.

Not really...i knew the 2 fields in New Edinburgh because i found them with a char of my play account and mined there often as i was high enough with my JE.

And i'm 90% sure he posted that somewhere that he did/want to add such fields.

That's why i wasn't surprised to find a field. And i never saw a macro miner there.

Sometimes i were grouped with others but the miners were all really mining.

So i had no reason to act.

greets

Hexergirl

[gerry]

Well here's a situation you may not have thought of.

I took the mission with the Terran side in 61 Cygni,my task ? He wants 10 stacks of Rainbow Silicon.That works out to 3600 individual pieces of Charons Dust.It took me 5 days of constant mining to collect just half,simply because the fields are so sparse of that ore.

The 3 good fields that I did find,in 3 different sectors,would give 30-50 per clear field.

Now they give 8-10 per clear field.So do the math,that means I have another 15 days to get the rest just to finish one mission.

Just admit a mistake was made and put it back the way it was.

[gerry]

TAlroc wrote: Just admit a mistake was made and put it back the way it was.

The WAY it was?

coming in to the emu I missed lots of ore-fields from live

ne fields in Cygni or Alpha Centauri and the fields in the Belts are a glimp from live

the high lvl ones in Endriago and so on and on ......

and what about lvling a toon up to lv150 only with mining???

EnB was/is special because it allowed/s to choose your own way of lvling:

If you like combat,go out hunting if you don't, don't care: still two other ways to grow up

and what's the deal with ECONOMY I've heard from Kenu too before???

We all know what's about:

My Chars from live are still standing at Net-7, Sol with millions of bucks useless

and lots of players spend stuff or money to newbies

Its a easy-making-money-game and no need to hold peeps short while cutting the cash-flow

botting in this game is absolutely useless imao:

just hording money or ores for nothing?

Just bring all the orefields back in game from life each miner has a good change to mine them on his own and so you dry out market for botters (if wanted )

Build a miner and start mining in a field and enjoy the meditationlike way it is: clears mind and heart and gives pretty good inspirations

[Mimir[IS]]

It's not as easy as you'd think when you live all over the world, and the person who placed these knew well that this wasn't to happen. As for the threads, where? I've not seen any, but to be fair I don't really go into the player knowledgebase unless asked to, since that area is for you guys to compile knowledge so if it's there, that would explain why I never knew about it. These fields were intentionally hidden, didn't match anything we had in terms of reality. They're impossible to justify, no matter how long they've been there simply because they were parked on top of each other and had no guardians whatsoever.

In any case, as I have previously stated, the person handling this was told if they entered anything into sectors that are mine, I was to be given a full write up on what was added. I received nothing in any form, yet these things existed in my sectors (as well as others), and I know I didn't put them there. No matter how you slice it, they have to go and/or be reduced to prevent them from breaking the game as it's meant to be played since it would essentially devalue the credit as you know it for all of them to exist in their current state.

In terms of devs and gms you'd have to name them to me, because for sure everyone was surprised when it was discovered.

Here is the link to the forum topic in question. Aug. 3rd 2010

https://enb-emulator.com/index.php?/topic/2863-julys-orelist-posting/page__p__22072__fromsearch__1#entry22072

And you don't read the forums? So all my great ideas, funny posts, complaints, praises, and outright whining is not even getting to the powers that be?

[Fuzdom]

Devs pls ignore almost all these posts.

I am happy with what you Devs decide to do but implementing everyones "opinion" on what is "their" preferences would be futile since it will just piss of "others" that think it otherwise.

For example forcing solo miners to group up with a warrior just to mine is "Stupid".

You might as well force a warrior to never be able to solo without having a JE around to recharge his reactor.

Or how about a warrior can and shud never be able to solo any mob without having a TT to repair his shields and hull?

You get my drift. Everyone plays differently.

You really want to prevent anything and promote a good community, code it so no one can start more than one net-7 client per pc.

Boxing kills the social promotions of any mmo.

[Nexeo]

Fuzdom you are being fecicious right?

[Ranko[IS]]

Guys (and girls ;P)

I know the recent changes have affected mining as a whole, but as the devs have already stated, the changes in the number of roids/rocks/crystals and gases at the moment have been reduced to remove an issues with the database and the total number of roids etc in a lot of places.

To remove any possible exploits or damage to the integrity of the game, the developers and project leaders of this EnB emulator did their job and have put a stop to it. Sure it has annoyed a lot of people because it has made a change from what you thought was ‘proper’ when infact it was not.

In the time of Westwood and EA, there were never roid fields in the game as vast as these were, plus both companies (Westwood and EA) implemented the mining system so that, the larger or higher level of ore fields be it level 5 to 9 (rough figure, 10 years is a long time) were not solo’able. You needed to have multiple miners AND you had to have one or two players from the warrior classes (be it PW, JD or TE) in ored to get to that high level ore. This was a fact and part of the game play when it was live. This is also what the development team which to emulate. You are playing an emulator, one with its own little twist added to it by the current dev team.

Sure, the current changes have more or less put a stoppage on any and all mining and affected all of the mining industry and those that play the game in such a capacity; but what would you rather have, a game where there is no economy, and a quick and easy life to level 150, with no threat, no pain and no major work or would you rather have a version of EnB that emulated the server to what the game was in live when EA/Westwood ran the servers? Where there was an economy, there was game play, and players worked together towards a common goal, and where achieving a high level such as 150 or finding and mining that precious ore was worth something? The dev team wish to put the mining sub-systems back to what there were in the live game, for them to do that, that have HAD to do what they have, simply to stop any explotation, etc.

I personally know what I’d want… And no it’s not an easy ride…

So please, think about what your ‘complaining about’ for a moment, and think back, was mining this easy or this plentiful when you played 6 years ago? No it was hard, but it was worth it. A game is not a game when it’s so easy, its more or less handed to you on a silver platter.

Doing what the devs did, whilst in the short time looks and feels bad, is in fact in the best interests of the game and for the people that play this game.

The phrase, ‘you have to break a few eggs, if you’re going to make an omelette’ comes to mind here…

EDIT: Correct timeframe from 10 years to 6. Thanks Talroc for correcting my error.

[Dalgothe]

10 years ago ???

what kind of Omelette have you been eating?

[Ranko[IS]]

My mistake, EA shut the game down back in 2004, so 6 years, not 10

I'm old, I forget this so leave me to my altzimers.

[Doctor Tiki]

In the time of Westwood and EA, there were never roid fields in the game as vast as these were, plus both companies (Westwood and EA) implemented the mining system so that, the larger or higher level of ore fields be it level 5 to 9 (rough figure, 10 years is a long time) were not solo’able. You needed to have multiple miners AND you had to have one or two players from the warrior classes (be it PW, JD or TE) in ored to get to that high level ore. This was a fact and part of the game play when it was live. This is also what the development team which to emulate. You are playing an emulator, one with its own little twist added to it by the current dev team.

While I don't play an active miner in the EMU, I did play a JE in live and can tell you with certainty you could mine ANYWHERE in the game by yourself if you had just a little common sense and were careful. That includes with the mobs popping out of roids..

I don't disagree with encouraging the behaviors you are describing but making it unsoloable is most definitely NOT emulating the live server. It may have been the case for your experiences but I think you will find many explorers from live will disagree with you on that point.

I would not normally have a problem with the opinions but you are stating these are absolute facts, which they are not.

[Terrell [BT]]

Guys (and girls ;P)

I know the recent changes have affected mining as a whole, but as the devs have already stated, the changes in the number of roids/rocks/crystals and gases at the moment have been reduced to remove an issues with the database and the total number of roids etc in a lot of places.

To remove any possible exploits or damage to the integrity of the game, the developers and project leaders of this EnB emulator did their job and have put a stop to it. Sure it has annoyed a lot of people because it has made a change from what you thought was ‘proper’ when infact it was not.

In the time of Westwood and EA, there were never roid fields in the game as vast as these were, plus both companies (Westwood and EA) implemented the mining system so that, the larger or higher level of ore fields be it level 5 to 9 (rough figure, 10 years is a long time) were not solo’able. You needed to have multiple miners AND you had to have one or two players from the warrior classes (be it PW, JD or TE) in ored to get to that high level ore. This was a fact and part of the game play when it was live. This is also what the development team which to emulate. You are playing an emulator, one with its own little twist added to it by the current dev team.

Sure, the current changes have more or less put a stoppage on any and all mining and affected all of the mining industry and those that play the game in such a capacity; but what would you rather have, a game where there is no economy, and a quick and easy life to level 150, with no threat, no pain and no major work or would you rather have a version of EnB that emulated the server to what the game was in live when EA/Westwood ran the servers? Where there was an economy, there was game play, and players worked together towards a common goal, and where achieving a high level such as 150 or finding and mining that precious ore was worth something? The dev team wish to put the mining sub-systems back to what there were in the live game, for them to do that, that have HAD to do what they have, simply to stop any explotation, etc.

I personally know what I’d want… And no it’s not an easy ride…

So please, think about what your ‘complaining about’ for a moment, and think back, was mining this easy or this plentiful when you played 10 years ago? No it was hard, but it was worth it. A game is not a game when it’s so easy, its more or less handed to you on a silver platter.

Doing what the devs did, whilst in the short time looks and feels bad, is in fact in the best interests of the game and for the people that play this game.

The phrase, ‘you have to break a few eggs, if you’re going to make an omelette’ comes to mind here…

That largely depended on where you mined. There were unguarded L7+ ores in Jupiter (the mobs in the fields were Sharim Traders, and unless you had bad faction with them, they were going to leave you alone), Cygni also had plenty of unguarded high level ores in Live and you could mine solo in either of those locations without the need of a warrior to protect you. The addition of the "Asteroid Navs" brougnt in many orefields some of which were L7+ and unguarded. IIRC the devs put them in to encourage mining for Explore XP rather than Jobbing (for explorers).

Many of the orefields that were guarded were guarded by Manes, I've mentioned earlier in the thread as to why warriors aren't going to bother with manes, most of the time, leaving Explorers to mine around them, or deal with them. They simply weren't worth the Warriors' time or ammo. Now if you were mining in Ardus you might need such protection, given the nasty enemies that were there, but Ardus also had ores that were only found there. Manes were a pain for JE's because of their energy immunity, which meant you couldn't use Ghost's Edge, beams which had good buffs for mining (reactor, Scan, cloak) because those beams were energy. Warriors weren't going to waste their time and ammo on manes, it just wasn't worth it, outside of a specfic mission.

[Archjenquai]

We have found that in some place in the game ore was over abundant with "unclearable" fields. These fields are game breaking and making the economy completely unbalanced. Last night we did a temp fix to make the fields have less ores. When we release the December patch we will be fixing the ore fields. This is not permanent just temporary quick fix. Mobs were not changed at all with this patch.

Thanks,

David

I'm glad this solved the unbalanced economy. Oh wait...

[Kyp [LDEV]]

I'm glad this solved the unbalanced economy. Oh wait...

Well, we could always wipe if you all feel that strongly, but I suspect the answer to that is "NOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!". That would be something that we'd like to avoid as much as possible because we know people want to keep their levels and we just don't have any technical need at the moment to do so (at least none I'm aware of). There is no such thing as the magic pill that would fix it overnight, the money has to bleed out of the economy for it to become rebalanced, but honestly this is not the point. We're trying to collect testing data on how money is spent and earned, any data we have now has to be tossed out totally, it's worthless. This may as well have been the people that knew of it having printing press plates to print their own currency, there's no two ways about it.

Many of you are looking at it (as should be expected) from a player point of view, while it is wonderful for you to have thousands of ores available at your whim, it does hurt. You very much should have to or at least want to involve warriors with you to play guardians for your group and you'd NEVER have found more than 2-3 ores from one position, in these fields you could find all of them (300 or however many happened to be there) were reachable WITHOUT thrusting or warping anywhere. This would not have happened in the live game and it's not going to happen here, not any longer anyway. The reason they did things the way they did in live was to try to encourage you to group with friends who played the different classes so that they could earn experience in the bars that were not their strong suits and in addition to let you see how they played to inspire you to make your own. On countless occasions I defended my guild's main miner types and I was never bored doing it, I always had a blast, even though I wasn't fighting constantly.

But I digress a little, the point is, we must do this so that we can keep the economy such as it is under a realistic level so that things don't hit astronomical prices because too many credits are flooding in. Had these fields been stretched across the sector and interspersed with a few guardian mobs here and there, we wouldn't have had a problem but thousands of ores packed in a ball that's less than 1k across is patently ridiculous and no excuse that any or all of you could come up with together would justify that, not only does it cause an economy problem, it causes graphical glitches and could even lead to server issues due to packets flooding while you're mining or someone showing up near you while you are. We're already busy readjusting it, moving it around. I think by the time we get it all finalized you'll probably enjoy it more, even though you have to actually move around to get it. In turn it will reduce the ease of macro mining, increase the survivability of the economy such as it is, AND make it more like the live game was in terms of mining. We're not saying it won't be changed to be better, but the guideline given to the individual doing ore was to populate the sectors with ores but not to flood it. I guess that person though that they did not flood it but they might as well have sat at Net7 handing out free credits to anyone that stopped and opened a trade window.

I know from a player perspective it seems like a nerf, but in the long run it's better for the game, and better for you. Kinda like taking your vitamins when you're growing up. You'll get many of your harvestables back soon enough.

[Mimir[IS]]

Well, we could always wipe if you all feel that strongly, but I suspect the answer to that is "NOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!". That would be something that we'd like to avoid as much as possible because we know people want to keep their levels and we just don't have any technical need at the moment to do so (at least none I'm aware of). There is no such thing as the magic pill that would fix it overnight, the money has to bleed out of the economy for it to become rebalanced, but honestly this is not the point. We're trying to collect testing data on how money is spent and earned, any data we have now has to be tossed out totally, it's worthless. This may as well have been the people that knew of it having printing press plates to print their own currency, there's no two ways about it.

Many of you are looking at it (as should be expected) from a player point of view, while it is wonderful for you to have thousands of ores available at your whim, it does hurt. You very much should have to or at least want to involve warriors with you to play guardians for your group and you'd NEVER have found more than 2-3 ores from one position, in these fields you could find all of them (300 or however many happened to be there) were reachable WITHOUT thrusting or warping anywhere. This would not have happened in the live game and it's not going to happen here, not any longer anyway. The reason they did things the way they did in live was to try to encourage you to group with friends who played the different classes so that they could earn experience in the bars that were not their strong suits and in addition to let you see how they played to inspire you to make your own. On countless occasions I defended my guild's main miner types and I was never bored doing it, I always had a blast, even though I wasn't fighting constantly.

But I digress a little, the point is, we must do this so that we can keep the economy such as it is under a realistic level so that things don't hit astronomical prices because too many credits are flooding in. Had these fields been stretched across the sector and interspersed with a few guardian mobs here and there, we wouldn't have had a problem but thousands of ores packed in a ball that's less than 1k across is patently ridiculous and no excuse that any or all of you could come up with together would justify that, not only does it cause an economy problem, it causes graphical glitches and could even lead to server issues due to packets flooding while you're mining or someone showing up near you while you are. We're already busy readjusting it, moving it around. I think by the time we get it all finalized you'll probably enjoy it more, even though you have to actually move around to get it. In turn it will reduce the ease of macro mining, increase the survivability of the economy such as it is, AND make it more like the live game was in terms of mining. We're not saying it won't be changed to be better, but the guideline given to the individual doing ore was to populate the sectors with ores but not to flood it. I guess that person though that they did not flood it but they might as well have sat at Net7 handing out free credits to anyone that stopped and opened a trade window.

I know from a player perspective it seems like a nerf, but in the long run it's better for the game, and better for you. Kinda like taking your vitamins when you're growing up. You'll get many of your harvestables back soon enough.

These were fun, I agree they were not in live, but they were fun. I only ever found the one and I did look for others. The one I found, I found because I was free warping away from a mob that had my lil PS down into the reactor. This ball o goodness was not on the beaten path but way out in the outback.

I know you said that the mobs had not been messed with in the latest update, but they are definitely decreased across the board. If possible could you check on this and find out why?

In live it was never a problem to get dead, anywhere! With these new “improved”? mob levels I have to really try to get dead, like take a bio break while warping to a middle nav, in some unexplored sector.

Many changes are going on and it seems that the chief is just finding out what the Indians have been doing.

[Dalgothe]

Personally I vote for the wipe for a couple reasons.

1:A lot of changes have been made since the last wipe.

2:you say you want to even out the economy ,a wipe would do it.

3:Every time you change code in one area you will have to update code in a different area to match what has been changed.

4:whats the big deal it is a stress test afterall.

5:All those wonderfull devices that were never supposed to be ingame from the roids mixup will be removed.

lol my flame suit is new so let it begin.

but you have to admit what I wrote makes sense.

[Kyp [LDEV]]

These were fun, I agree they were not in live, but they were fun. I only ever found the one and I did look for others. The one I found, I found because I was free warping away from a mob that had my lil PS down into the reactor. This ball o goodness was not on the beaten path but way out in the outback.

I know you said that the mobs had not been messed with in the latest update, but they are definitely decreased across the board. If possible could you check on this and find out why?

In live it was never a problem to get dead, anywhere! With these new “improved”? mob levels I have to really try to get dead, like take a bio break while warping to a middle nav, in some unexplored sector.

Many changes are going on and it seems that the chief is just finding out what the Indians have been doing.

Actually, there was a few small changes to mobs recently, one to make them spawn in their actual spawn radius because they were actually spawning elsewhere and wandering toward the center of it. (oops!). This is probably what led to less mobs for the last couple of months. There was a fix for that, and a fix for us internally to make it so we could actually have combination spawns without getting really inventive with spawn node placeme:).

So just to get it straight, you are saying that with this recent change (when we restarted and hit the ores temporarily) the mobs have vanished? If so, I'll have to check our code, the new code should actually do quite the opposite. I will be happy to look in on it if so. As for the mob difficulties I would say you can expect that to start changing soon, we have someone working on setting them up and activating them so they should become stronger as time goes on. The problem for the most part is finding sources of data that shows what skills mobs had has proven pretty difficu:P.

"Many changes are going on and it seems that the chief is just finding out what the Indians have been doing."

Actually, that's about accurate, because the indian was supposed to be telling us chiefs what was changing; but was not, or at least not as was mandated. In any case, neither here nor there. Not here to cast blame, just here to fix it all up and get it back out there for you all to play wi:).

[Terrell [BT]]

Well, we could always wipe if you all feel that strongly, but I suspect the answer to that is "NOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!". That would be something that we'd like to avoid as much as possible because we know people want to keep their levels and we just don't have any technical need at the moment to do so (at least none I'm aware of). There is no such thing as the magic pill that would fix it overnight, the money has to bleed out of the economy for it to become rebalanced, but honestly this is not the point. We're trying to collect testing data on how money is spent and earned, any data we have now has to be tossed out totally, it's worthless. This may as well have been the people that knew of it having printing press plates to print their own currency, there's no two ways about it.

Many of you are looking at it (as should be expected) from a player point of view, while it is wonderful for you to have thousands of ores available at your whim, it does hurt. You very much should have to or at least want to involve warriors with you to play guardians for your group and you'd NEVER have found more than 2-3 ores from one position, in these fields you could find all of them (300 or however many happened to be there) were reachable WITHOUT thrusting or warping anywhere. This would not have happened in the live game and it's not going to happen here, not any longer anyway. The reason they did things the way they did in live was to try to encourage you to group with friends who played the different classes so that they could earn experience in the bars that were not their strong suits and in addition to let you see how they played to inspire you to make your own. On countless occasions I defended my guild's main miner types and I was never bored doing it, I always had a blast, even though I wasn't fighting constantly.

But I digress a little, the point is, we must do this so that we can keep the economy such as it is under a realistic level so that things don't hit astronomical prices because too many credits are flooding in. Had these fields been stretched across the sector and interspersed with a few guardian mobs here and there, we wouldn't have had a problem but thousands of ores packed in a ball that's less than 1k across is patently ridiculous and no excuse that any or all of you could come up with together would justify that, not only does it cause an economy problem, it causes graphical glitches and could even lead to server issues due to packets flooding while you're mining or someone showing up near you while you are. We're already busy readjusting it, moving it around. I think by the time we get it all finalized you'll probably enjoy it more, even though you have to actually move around to get it. In turn it will reduce the ease of macro mining, increase the survivability of the economy such as it is, AND make it more like the live game was in terms of mining. We're not saying it won't be changed to be better, but the guideline given to the individual doing ore was to populate the sectors with ores but not to flood it. I guess that person though that they did not flood it but they might as well have sat at Net7 handing out free credits to anyone that stopped and opened a trade window.

I know from a player perspective it seems like a nerf, but in the long run it's better for the game, and better for you. Kinda like taking your vitamins when you're growing up. You'll get many of your harvestables back soon enough.

I also agree that large fields that were compressed to the point you didn't have to move between roids to mine were not in Live, but I don't think that there should be few ores. Orefieds that are spread out over 50km or so is fine, JE, PE, and TE have that big scan range and the scan skill for a reason. 2 of those explorers also have the ability to put energy into their reactor by starting their warp engines, with a L7+ RR+ and Navigate 5 or so. Moving or warping from roid to roid is fine, especially for Scouts & Explorers.

I do think that we should put in the orefields that were around the Asteroid Navs in Live. There were fields behind Arduinne Planet at each Asteroid nav that were nice mining for explorers willing to go off the beaten path. Perhaps there should continue to be at least some orefields that are minimally guarded, but have more common but useful ores. Like ores for ammo components. The more valuable ores, compared to ammo ores, would be better protected, but not with overwhelming guardians. In ST3 there were some pretty high level Manes guarding things in Pluto & Charon, relative to the ores in question. Most explorers will keep EL and TL ahead of CL, because it benefits them skill wise, and because their "jobs" tend to raise those two bars more than CL.

The problem with the warriors protecting explorers is that it breaks down when the Warriors have enough EL to get their top reactor (insofar as low EL lowers OL), and in the case of JW EL45. Afterwards they're better off fishing or hunting birds (Voltoi), or other high level mobs away from orefields as the payoff is better. Unless you're going to balance protecting explorers in orefields to what they make in XP & credits hunting elsewhere, warriors have little, if any, motivation to work with explorers, once they reach EL45. So while guardians on orefields is okay, in the vast majority of high level orefields, an explorer is probably going alone, or maybe with other explorers. Warriors have better things to do than watch our backs.

I don't have problems with having to go to different fields to find different ores, if anything that's a good thing. Fields hidden off the beaten path is also a good thing. Varying shapes & sizes of orefields would be good too.

I think orefields should vary in size and content, as well as danger level. However, if you want me to get a warrior to protect me, the drops have to be worth the warriors time or he's going elsewhere. Especially if he doesn't need Explore XP because he's already high enough to fill it more efficently with spillover. If he's CL50, TL50, and EL 40 or higher, he might be able to use spillover and get the xp he needs faster by doing what he's good at, fighting, especially with a group of warriors, than protecting explorers from guardian mobs. What's in it for the high level warrior to protect an explorer? If the explorer has to come out of pocket for the warrior's ammo, to get him to come along, then there may not be much point to mining, or explorers are going to have to charge more for ores to make up for credits spent paying for protection.

[fuulishone]

So just to get it straight, you are saying that with this recent change (when we restarted and hit the ores temporarily) the mobs have vanished? If so, I'll have to check our code, the new code should actually do quite the opposite. I will be happy to look in on it if so. As for the mob difficulties I would say you can expect that to start changing soon, we have someone working on setting them up and activating them so they should become stronger as time goes on. The problem for the most part is finding sources of data that shows what skills mobs had has proven pretty difficult.

Actually Kyp, I think some mobs are more plentiful, or at least respawn properly without having to travel so far. So that part is great. I no longer feel as safe in certain areas and that's a good thing.

[Toreava]

I don't know about everyone else, but I play this game to have fun and laugh with my comrades. The only economy that concerns me is connected to the grocery store where I shop.

Ban the botters across the board. You bot, you get banned.

And to Hell with all getting along. Let's just all have fun.

Oh, and until the fun resumes, I'll be playing mindless solitaire on pogo.com. (Where the only thing I have to worry about is how to ignore their commercials.)

Edited December 1, 2010 by Toreava

[Kenu [CDEV]]

I don't like the way we handled this situation, but we're doing all we can to fix the lack of asteroids. Hang with us as we try to get the roids how they should be in the next few days. Hopefully when all is said and done the roid situation will be much better than it was before the changes, regardless of the disaster that happened between the reform.