Trade Runs

[Willbonney]

In EnB beta, the only characters that really did any sort of trade runs were those that had the skill "negotiate." The main reason for this was that the level of the trade good could only be bought with your skill in Negotiate...thus, a level 4 or 5 skill meant you could actually buy the level 4 or 5 good. If you didn't have negotiate, you could only buy the level 1's. For reasons they called "balance" they opened up trade goods to all. I always thought that took a bit away from being a trader, but their thought then was that they only had one Trader class, and two classes with negotiate, so it helped the masses. Now that we have all the "trader" classes, we could institute something more along those lines. The other added could be higher level trade goods, for those that have higher then level 5 Negotiate available to them.

My thought along these lines is that Traders should trade, Explorers should mine, and Warriors should fight. Now, with the different "hybrids" of all, yes, there should be other things a warrior is "okay" at, as well for explorers, but this is just my mind set I guess.

[Rojaad]

This is something that I would like to see reinstituted into the game. I could see this being balanced in only one way. If a warrior or trader wanted to do trade runs they need to group with a tradesmen. The tradesmen’s negotiate skill level would then become a group skill to allow them all to buy that certain level item. That would actually give the traders in general a new niche that is clearly lacking.

[Falstar [MOD]]

I like this idea - What advantage does a TT have over a JE in running a trade run? Make a bit more money (by negotiate) and hold a bit more cargo. It would be good if we had the high level trade good restricted so you either had to be a trader, or be grouped with one.

On a similar note, I think it would be neat if some (or all?) trade goods took distance (jumps) into account. For example, if you run a resource crate from Dahin to Swooping Eagle, it would be one price, but if you run it to Earth Station it would be higher. This is of course complicated by the fact that some resources are in several stations. It is also further complicated by different races and classes having access to different gates. Still, I think it would be neat to see distance for some goods taken into account. It would make sense that you would sell something at a higher price because you took more time/energy/ship wear and tear to get it there. Just a thought.

[Terrell [BT]]

I like this idea - What advantage does a TT have over a JE in running a trade run? Make a bit more money (by negotiate) and hold a bit more cargo. It would be good if we had the high level trade good restricted so you either had to be a trader, or be grouped with one.

On a similar note, I think it would be neat if some (or all?) trade goods took distance (jumps) into account. For example, if you run a resource crate from Dahin to Swooping Eagle, it would be one price, but if you run it to Earth Station it would be higher. This is of course complicated by the fact that some resources are in several stations. It is also further complicated by different races and classes having access to different gates. Still, I think it would be neat to see distance for some goods taken into account. It would make sense that you would sell something at a higher price because you took more time/energy/ship wear and tear to get it there. Just a thought.

Negotiate also gives more XP. For example the nanobots at Fenris, when delivered to Somerled, give 1000 XP per bot to a toon without Negotiate, a toon with Negotiate 5 gets 2000 XP on the same item. TT also has 10 more cargo slots than JE of same level, gets engine upgrades 10 levels sooner, JE doesn't really pass TT on warp speed with travel gear until Navigate 6. JE also cannot use wormhole without seriously nerfing Trade XP for doing so.

[fuulishone]

This is a terrible idea. Gating the level of trade good you can buy based on whether or not you had negotiate (and thus ALWAYS requiring a negotiate character in your group) means folks will simply devolve to dual-boxing trader characters. Very few people are actually going to look for a trader to group with for the long trade runs.

Additionally, until you have a high enough trade level, good luck trying to get in on the Somerled/Prasad run. You'll be stuck with Net7 new runs for MANY more levels than necessary, effectively making low level trade runs pointless. You'd end up getting more trade xp from mob loot than Net7 runs. Spice runs are level 4 trade goods, which require what? TL 15, so that means you'll be stuck doing lower level trade runs for 15 levels. Is that really what you want?

If you're trying to drive folks away, due to boredom, this would be the way to do it. If you're trying to get folks to group with Negotiate classes (or TTs in particular) then ask for the group negotiate benefit to be put in game since it currently isn't.

[garblesoup]

This is a terrible idea. Gating the level of trade good you can buy based on whether or not you had negotiate (and thus ALWAYS requiring a negotiate character in your group) means folks will simply devolve to dual-boxing trader characters. Very few people are actually going to look for a trader to group with for the long trade runs.

Additionally, until you have a high enough trade level, good luck trying to get in on the Somerled/Prasad run. You'll be stuck with Net7 new runs for MANY more levels than necessary, effectively making low level trade runs pointless. You'd end up getting more trade xp from mob loot than Net7 runs. Spice runs are level 4 trade goods, which require what? TL 15, so that means you'll be stuck doing lower level trade runs for 15 levels. Is that really what you want?

If you're trying to drive folks away, due to boredom, this would be the way to do it. If you're trying to get folks to group with Negotiate classes (or TTs in particular) then ask for the group negotiate benefit to be put in game since it currently isn't.

/signed

There's *already* a big difference-maker in place to provide Traders an advantage in doing Trade Runs and that's Negotiate. Run a Trader and a non-Trader side by side on the same route with the same goods and look at the difference in the level of Trade XP that is given - it's substantial (as Terrell points out up-thread). Trade XP is one of the bigger grinds that players have to deal with, why make it worse?

The one thing that *should* be done, IMO, is to work to re-enable the bonus that non-Traders got when grouped with a Trader and selling something.

There's a reason this "feature" was dropped from EnB Beta.

[Yazuly]

What advantage does a TT have over a JE in running a trade run

A huge advantage because of negotiate. Make a TT and a JE and get them up over level 100. I have both both and I will often dual box them on trade runs. Fenris to Somerlad, TT gets 36 * 2000 exp = 72,000 trade exp while the JE gets 28 * 900 for 25,200 trade exp. That's almost a 3 to 1 advantage in trade experience as it stands now.

Because of negotiate on the TT his exp on a trade good does not drop as his trade levels increase. Because the JE does not have negotiate his exp will begin to drop per trade good as his trade level increases.

[Willbonney]

Some of you seem to be missing the point. It's a "revamp" of the trade run system, sort of more like a "rollback" to the way it was. Thus allowing access to higher level trade goods for those who are actually Traders. I can agree though that grouping with a Trader with the level of negotiate required would allow non-traders to then buy the item as well. This promotes grouping (hello, MMO) and gives all others access to higher level trade goods.

Having access to higher level trade goods then means more experience per length of time, which then results in having to do fewer runs for trade levels...and thus everyone benefits. Or, as intended, non-traders should not be doing trade runs for experience, just as non-explorers don't get to mine.

[Zinlu]

Some of you seem to be missing the point.

Ok so then a lot of folks will still dualbox a trader anyway, the only difference would be they do it specifically for the higher level trade goods.

Or, as intended, non-traders should not be doing trade runs for experience, just as non-explorers don't get to mine.

So should traders and explorers not get to fight? I personally see no good reason why *anyone* can't take needed (or wanted) supplies from one station to another and make money/trade exp. Who exactly was it that "intended" trade runs to be a Trader-only thing?

[fuulishone]

Having access to higher level trade goods then means more experience per length of time, which then results in having to do fewer runs for trade levels...and thus everyone benefits. Or, as intended, non-traders should not be doing trade runs for experience, just as non-explorers don't get to mine.

I challenge you to make an explorer class that does nothing but mine and tell me how far you get. Tell me how long you can last before you start tearing your eyes out and WANTING to trade run just so you could have enough skill points to get the higher level reactor you so desperately need to keep mining reasonable. Remember you need to keep your OL moving in order to use higher level reactors. Not trading at all would kill the class, just like it would kill the warrior class.

The suggestion to bring in skill-limited trade goods would have a negative impact on the game, not a positive one. And hello, MMO? You don't improve grouping in an MMO by making the grinding require a group. You improve it by providing content that folks enjoy doing that's hard and require a group. Trade runs are not hard. Just a necessary part of the grind. Forcing what you call grouping would simply encourage dual-boxing.

You want a revamp? Again, ask for higher level, longer run, higher profit trade runs. Right now the code is based on profit (as applied to trade goods only), not level (as far as I've been told by Devs/GMs in game). So higher level trade goods only limit whether or not you get xp from it, not how much. There's a reason why level 4/5 trade goods don't go down in xp value as you get higher TL.

[garblesoup]

Some of you seem to be missing the point. It's a "revamp" of the trade run system, sort of more like a "rollback" to the way it was.

No, I'm pretty sure most of the people here have not missed the point based upon reading their comments.

This is not the way it was so saying it doesn't make it so (because there was all kinds of things in Beta that were changed for Live).

And please understand - my main *is* a TT and my main *was* a TT going back to original beta and all the way through Live. Traders don't need help with Trade Runs - it's one thing we are actually very good at.

[Terrell [BT]]

No, I'm pretty sure most of the people here have not missed the point based upon reading their comments.

This is not the way it was so saying it doesn't make it so (because there was all kinds of things in Beta that were changed for Live).

And please understand - my main *is* a TT and my main *was* a TT going back to original beta and all the way through Live. Traders don't need help with Trade Runs - it's one thing we are actually very good at.

My JT, PT, TE, and TW agree with this underlined part. They find doing Somerled <-> Fenris trade runs to be rather efficent. My JT likes trade runs even more, because for her it's the fastest and most efficent way to L150.

My JE finds doing jobs to be more efficent, due to the abilty to wormhole, and to take more jobs at once in Emulator than he could in Live. Now for my JW, both trade runs and jobs are just painful (have a 2nd JE just to dual-box for that purpose). Maybe he would be better off farming mobs, and selling the loot. (Big thing for JW is getting Explore XP up, without any clear advantage over the other warriors in earning Explore XP, while needing EL 25 for Cloak 5, and EL45 for Scan 7, a little less painful for JT since she can just keep doing trade runs after TL50)

[Evoz]

The suggestion to bring in skill-limited trade goods would have a negative impact on the game, not a positive one. And hello, MMO? You don't improve grouping in an MMO by making the grinding require a group. You improve it by providing content that folks enjoy doing that's hard and require a group. Trade runs are not hard. Just a necessary part of the grind. Forcing what you call grouping would simply encourage dual-boxing.

You want a revamp? Again, ask for higher level, longer run, higher profit trade runs.

QFT

[bondct]

you know if everyone started the game at TL50... we could put this whole issue to rest and start working on faction and high level devices and opening up more sectors and stuff like that much faster... just puttin it out there...

[r8rsfans75]

you know if everyone started the game at TL50... we could put this whole issue to rest and start working on faction and high level devices and opening up more sectors and stuff like that much faster... just puttin it out there...

I agree with the sentiment of getting the devs to move on to something else, but to start at everyone at TL50, you might as well just take TL out of the game completely, then people would just use trade runs to make money, which means fewer people would do it because there are better ways to earn credits and then these issues go away. (I'm hoping people are catching the sarcasm here, I'm trying to lay it on pretty thick)

Edited May 4, 2010 by Grendwal