Level 100 revamp in progress.

[nimr0dbbow[IS]]

Not going to tell much yet, until it has been tested, but the Level 100 hull upgrade is in a serious revamp that should suit the players styles (and not require stages taking over 4 hours..)

:: Will be able to reveal more when it comes out of beta testing.

[fuulishone]

Not going to tell much yet, until it has been tested, but the Level 100 hull upgrade is in a serious revamp that should suit the players styles (and not require stages taking over 4 hours..)

:: Will be able to reveal more when it comes out of beta testing.

Reading between the lines a bit... I'm guessing this means if I want to experience the new version I should wait to pick it up until you say "Go!"

[nimr0dbbow[IS]]

Attention:

As of 30-April-2010 19:00 GMT+1 there will be an update to the Level 100 hull upgrades on the Developer Server.

This means when the content is copied across, it will effect you.

How will it effect you:

a ) Existing Level 100 Hull Upgrade Mission will become unavailable to players, this will be updated to developer status and eventually after a few months be reassigned to other Progen missions (probably an earlier Hull Upgrade Tree).

b ) Bonus Mission on Capture the Cargo will be only to kill a CL 66 mane, other manes supporting this mission will be removed from Lagarto space. The mission that was a level 100 mission supporting this mission will be obtained as a bonus mission only if you did the Combat option of the new Level 100 mission. Players who have this mission currently in their log or have already done this mission:

Joint Class Operation III of III [Version 3.4.-]

Renamed to Strength in Numbers [Version 1.0.-]

This will be modified to support the new Mission Structure, it will no longer provide a Hull Upgrade. This means the requirements for Capture the Cargo will not change and still look to this mission.

c ) New Level 100 Hull Upgrade has:

i. Master Mission that updates when options are completed. Master Mission Cannot Be Forfitted.

ii. Item that can be viewed to give information if you forgot where to go

This item is required to complete any option. Once you have completed 3 options, then this item is removed from

you.

iii. There are more than 3 options that can be selected, some options require previous options, some don't.

Some options require specific skills at specific levels or XP levels, some don't. Rewards for the Options

are different. Each option is a sub-mission that will be your own choice if you want to complete. The

payment option is split into 3 options, allowing you the chance to partially pay and do another option

if you want. Options are Forfitable (you may have several in play, but when you complete 3 any outstanding

options cannot be completed, and you'll just have to forfit them.

Options therefore are going to be the route of diversification within the Progen players. Some are Class

Specific. The options will also have their own bonus mission trees, guaranteeing that if you decide to

go down one route, you will exclude yourself from other routes.

iv: [Removed]

v: The Roaring Fires of Hell [Version 1.2.WP]

Remains the same.

vi: Salvage the PAX Decima Gemina [Version 4.3.W]

- Unchanged. As a warrior you will have to defeat a CL 66 mane.

vii: Salvage the PAX Decima Gemina [Version 4.3.PS]

- Change to the requirements, you will need the medal but not need to do Capture the Cargo if you have obtained

the medal via another route (available to you in the new options for the level 100 Hull Upgrade)

Removal:

The following missions will become unavailable once the new hull level is in place on the 30/April/2010

300,000 credits for a hull upgrade or do a mission [Version 3.3.-]

Joint Class Operation I of III [Version 3.3.-] [HU]

Joint Class Operation II of III [Version 2.3.- ]

A question of matter [Version 3.2.P]

Recon and Report [Version 3.1.S]

No evidence to remain [Version 3.2.W]

So, your choice is to remain as is, or rush!

The new route will / should cut down the time required for the mission and allow you to explore missions as you want.

HU Level 100 Mission will alter:

30-APR-2010

[nimr0dbbow[IS]]

This has now been implemented on the Play Server.

[Spirit-T-H]

Progen Hull 100 Option - Supply The Gear

I found "Secured Containers" at Detention Center Onorom.

Where can I find "Evacuation Pods"?

Edited May 1, 2010 by Spirit-T-H

[r8rsfans75]

I'm just wondering why in addition to the lvl 100 HU changes that were pushed last night, why the faction changes for the BBW gates were not mentioned in the forums. I didn't do a lot of trade runs myself, but it sure stirred up a hornets nest in the chat channels last night. Not just New Players either, General and even Market spent most of the night talking about it.

On a related note, it would seem to me that doing Somer/Prasad runs would be a better use of time, then trying to kill the 10,000 Chavez needed to repair RD faction enough to open the gates just to do the Somer/Fenris runs. Actually even doing the Somer/Fenris runs the long way would even be a faster way to increase TL than trying to reopen the BBW gate first.

I do however agree with some of the posts I have been reading this morning stating that the faction gain/loss should be scalable. Bigger gain/loss for higher lvl mobs.

[nimr0dbbow[IS]]

Grendwal, please keep to topic of conversation.

This is just information on the Level 100 HU for Progen.

Evacuation Pods: Exist, try to find out where.

Faction Change: Ask someone else.

[Spirit-T-H]

There wasn't a doubt, that "Evacuation Pods" exists.

[nimr0dbbow[IS]]

*cough*

Check Progen Stations

[Spirit-T-H]

Evacuation Pods at Nostrand Vor.

[nimr0dbbow[IS]]

Shield Bonus Mission:

- XXXXXXXXXXXX (Sorry your not security cleared to view the name of this Agrippa Technology Shield)

- Change requested (02/06/2010):

- The Activated Effects will all only last 30 seconds next time items are updated. Some currently last a good deal longer, its anticipated to be balanced Good:Bad. In the meanwhile on Play it will remain very very good until updated!

---------------------

Device Bonus Mission:

- Being worked on (Developer server only though)

[Mimir[IS]]

Having just started the 100 HU, I found a problem that I think should be changed.

In the initial chat tree there was some mention of a combat portion of this set of missions.

I elected to do the crafting portion first, but I found that I needed to acquire the shield to rip/make that was drop only. To me this IS combat. Wouldn’t it have made more sense to just have it a vendor item? The mission would essentially be the same but it seems silly if it is called the “crafting” portion of the mission that it starts out with combat and needing to get a relatively rare drop.

More later………….

Oh this is on my PS

Edited July 27, 2010 by Mimir

[nimr0dbbow[IS]]

Planning to change it further,

HU will have compulsary missions

HU will have compulsary cost

Tokens will be given out before the HU that can be saved for later HU to unlock bonus content. Easier this way.

Will be done on the Privateer's tree first.

People past this stage don't worry.

[iceminer]

Okay B... from what I have seen about the 100 HU changes and AT stuff, are you trying to get PS to quit shield builds?

The shield missions for AT mention PP get 3, and PS only 2. The 1st AT for the skirmish uses the PP only build part. We already lack comp building and negotiate, but by making that PP only comp just encourages PP to make it themselves and for the PS to not bother. And them having 3 and PS only 2 suggestion PS will be missing something. If we still want to encourage PS to build shields.. it should be swapped so the PS could look forward to having a build that none else can do (kinda like the ENTIRE progen reactor line for the PP.) Honestly to balance the 3 classes, I suggest PW get level 3 AT weapon build, PS level 3 Device and Shields, PP get level 3 components, shields and reactors but only level 2 weapons. This ensures each class has something to themselves and PS and PP are still even on shields. Okay enough of that soap box.

What I was really going to suggest were two things to help get the PS involved in the AT more than just that ONE device build you mention.

When you come up with these PP only comps, you are trying to make them with raw ores so the PP must find a miner... not a Sentinal. My suggestion is that you get the Sentinal envolve by using something only they can make... different levels of manes essence. It is already in game as the manes extraction devices are PS only and lets the PS supply one element of the component builds. Since you have levels 2-6 essence that gives you a spread for the comp levels. Thus the comp level and build levels increase, the manes level increases, and the higher the level of the PS required to supply it (according to device level.)

Now for top end gear of the series (level 8/9), what I suggest is something so good it almost hurt to think of it. LOL. Have the components require items from the CF mission. For example a level 9 PL. Make one of the components a PP only acid bathed Balderium Barrel. Have the component require the acid bath as an element, so something like 1 acid bath and 2 refined Balderium. By using the CF refine forms ensures a couple of things : 1) only the PS can help with the build and 2) every PP and PW is going to hound/help their guild PS to get to 135 and get CF mission so they can get this gear and makes CF more than a tool to help others but nothing really helpful for the PS themselves.

This suggestion is more radical and might get tossed I understand, but would help the PP and PS. Have 2 options at the end of the 135. Either get your bigger hull and 2 spots... or the option to "have some of your plating removed" and get a smaller hull but 4 spots. Like a PS can take 2 spots and 55000 hull... or 4 spots and a 40 or 45k hull. This would balance the fact that the progen hulls are rediculiously small for an ammo using race. Miners would be even with JEs on size and PPs would get closer to JT. I wouldn't think PWs would even care for the option and PPs most likely also... but as Magoo pointed out about different play styles, a PS would love the option for both mining and the fact that most of our fighting we are either not the tank or we aren't even getting shot (menace.)

Lastly I have an issue/bug question. Repulsor field in live could be used on other people just like any other bubble, but currently there is something that links it to a target level requirement. I was in BBW with a guild and could bubble his PW and myself.. but not the OL 38 TE. We should be able to slap that bubble on everybody... group or level regardless. Just wonder why we can't.

Iceminer

[nimr0dbbow[IS]]

I'm trying to get the progen to have some builds that they can do themselves, and not be reliant on terrans or jenquai. The level 100 new stuff will be overall 3-5 until stage 2 / 3. Ps should get build Shields / Build Devices and there are builds to support that (envisaged). However, the build class is the PP (apart from Devices)

Now the web starts with the Collegia who supply the components. However, mid range it will require the PS device as an integral part of all stage I builds. Collective working is required here.

The PS will get added bonus due to quality of Device (and Shield builds). Once you see the device and understand the route you will understand. Remember, these are research items and are not designed for the mass market.

Stage II will be that.

[Lot]

The Renegade/Rogue Progen Centurion level 32s seem pretty scarce both in the belt north of Endriago planet and in Lagarto between Deneb Path 2 and the PAX Decima Gemina. Between both locations over a long period I had found 4 out of 5 and had to log out for a while. Upon logging in again I was surprised to note that the counter had been reset to zero so all that effort was for no good.

[Mattsacre]

I'm trying to get the progen to have some builds that they can do themselves, and not be reliant on terrans or jenquai. The level 100 new stuff will be overall 3-5 until stage 2 / 3. Ps should get build Shields / Build Devices and there are builds to support that (envisaged). However, the build class is the PP (apart from Devices)

Now the web starts with the Collegia who supply the components. However, mid range it will require the PS device as an integral part of all stage I builds. Collective working is required here.

The PS will get added bonus due to quality of Device (and Shield builds). Once you see the device and understand the route you will understand. Remember, these are research items and are not designed for the mass market.

Stage II will be that.

No...No..no no no and again NO! No forced grouping!...both in combat AND in builds! This is not WOW...this is not EVE. This is Earth and Beyond Emu. That is what breaks WOW...thats what started to break EA's version of E&B prior to the sunset. You should NEVER "require" another player or class's input to be able to complete solo content...EVER! The single most dumb thing WOW does is have "required" quests for player skills advancement have a forced grouping to complete...PLEASE do NOT import WOW/think to the EMU.

I understand if you are expanding roles of miners that builders will need ores from them, I understand that miners that need gear will need builders to build them for them..this enteraction is functional. But to include "required" items from a set class for another to use as building blocks for their required comps to build for a mission is NOT functional...it is breaking. You should NEVER have to beg/spam something from a set single class just to be able to complete our build..there are quite often either not enough players on to do so...or none of that class on for you to have to hit a "stopper" in your progression.

The only single time there should be class specific items required for builds is L9 items for epic content (like the oni communication device in live needed L9 JE,PS,TT device builders to combine their skills to make each of their parts for the whole) but NEVER for progression from L1-150...only epic content!

[nimr0dbbow[IS]]

Mattsacre

The topic is about "Agrippa Technology" builds only.

Agrippa Technology is intended to be player interraction / group or guild related Progen content. This has been the case since about 3 years ago.

However, if you do not want to do this, then don't do the missions. They are not compulsary by any means and are unlocked using those Mission Tokens.

Agrippa Technology protects the progen component parts by creating inter-class reliance. This means all Progen Classes retain some usefulness in their Builds. Be advised, Gratis Augustus Var has requested that although the Collegia can create the 'large or bulk items', He has enforced the more specialised ammunition construction by his warriors.

Stage I: initial research (Token unlocked) - This stage is reliant on different classes working together

Stage II: (Future): Research opened up to invited skilled researchers (Progen via Symbol of Loyalty). This is the reason for it being awarded and asked to be kept. BB is just in as a 'placeholder'.

Stage III: (Future) Only open to Progen who have gone through stages I and II

So, you'll get to see stage II gear which will be toned down compared to stage I or III. If you choose to go that route.

Item Levels:

Stage I: I - 5

Stage II: 6 - 7

Stage III:8 - 9

Note, items of stage I will not feature in any of the builds in stage II but may feature in stage III.

[Mimir[IS]]

All I have to say is...Pffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffft.

I can see a few problems with these forced group missions. First is unless you make it worth the while for others to help you with these (other than the good of mankind) then it will be harder and harder for other than the first lucky few to get through them. As soon as the others find there is no reward in it for them…well getting busy quick will be the order of the day.

The second problem I see is you said if you don’t want to do the group missions you don’t have to. Unfortunately if you tie these missions to other missions in the series, if you opt out of one mission you opt out of every subsequent mission.

Edited November 26, 2010 by Mimir

[nimr0dbbow[IS]]

Stage I does rely on inter-class dependancy to go down the various mission trees.

Certainly to complete the missions you will need players to provide items that they have made. This is intended, to provide some means of interractive play.

Stage II is going to be 2 missions, and not requiring any knowledge of stage I or any other class.

This is where the items developed in stage I become made for the mass market, but may be 'nerfed' compared to some of the stage I items..

Stage III takes items from stage I and II and again you are streamlined along 2 missions. It is only the first part, stage I where the group is. Then again, if you don't do stage I you will be unable to do stage III.

[Mattsacre]

This is part of the problem I'm trying to pound into your skull byakhee. Interdependance on other classes skills fails. Even more so on lower levels than upper content.

Why? player progession and content aging. Let me give you an example from another game: WOW, long time players are on the edge of content so to speak..they are maxxed and waiting for the new or improved next "shiny" with each patch/expansion. Many of them grow bored with the wait and leave the game for months at a time for some other MMO (depriving other players of their input like building recipes..or raid skills or even just group populationing and fleshing)

When a new player joins they are experiencing "old" content as they advance their character. The oldtimers are off experiencing some newer high end content, so the are not going to go to a out of the way place to help the lower lvl character group up to run some instance for a drop or mat needed, or a requirement needed to advance a quest. If you need proof of this just log onto another MMO (wow being just one of them) and see the chat channels with the L.ooking F.or G.roup requests that clog the chats 24/7..and the inevitable posts of "oh freaking forget it!" and then the log off in frustration.

To combat this player "catch-up" those other MMO have to add swaths of code to somehow allow excellerated player advancement (usually to the strains of long time fans complaints of "dumbing it down for the noobs" "and the noobs will suck from lack of experience")

While E&B is unique it is not immune to this problem, especially with low player lvl on line. Watch sometime for calls for players needed to round out a FB or something for this to be illustrated.

So for the forced grouping to achieve "x" goal is a content lagging and dragging effect..ESPECIALLY in lower levels..and will be increasingly highlighted as newer/lower character players roll into being.

Remember E&B is PVE player versus the environment...PLAYER VE, not GVE group versus, not PVEE player versus environment everybody hold hands!

You do NOT need to force grouping for manufacturing/missioning to get player interaction, it happens quite well naturally, when the player needs a gun built he sees the builder to get it built or seeks the ores via the market, he does not need the npc demanding crap from him that is counter to his skill set. Grouping happens naturally via raids and camps or guild events at every lvl of character development, it need not be forced through NPC content also.

[Mimir[IS]]

This is part of the problem I'm trying to pound into your skull byakhee. Interdependance on other classes skills fails. Even more so on lower levels than upper content.

Why? player progession and content aging. Let me give you an example from another game: WOW, long time players are on the edge of content so to speak..they are maxxed and waiting for the new or improved next "shiny" with each patch/expansion. Many of them grow bored with the wait and leave the game for months at a time for some other MMO (depriving other players of their input like building recipes..or raid skills or even just group populationing and fleshing)

When a new player joins they are experiencing "old" content as they advance their character. The oldtimers are off experiencing some newer high end content, so the are not going to go to a out of the way place to help the lower lvl character group up to run some instance for a drop or mat needed, or a requirement needed to advance a quest. If you need proof of this just log onto another MMO (wow being just one of them) and see the chat channels with the L.ooking F.or G.roup requests that clog the chats 24/7..and the inevitable posts of "oh freaking forget it!" and then the log off in frustration.

To combat this player "catch-up" those other MMO have to add swaths of code to somehow allow excellerated player advancement (usually to the strains of long time fans complaints of "dumbing it down for the noobs" "and the noobs will suck from lack of experience")

While E&B is unique it is not immune to this problem, especially with low player lvl on line. Watch sometime for calls for players needed to round out a FB or something for this to be illustrated.

So for the forced grouping to achieve "x" goal is a content lagging and dragging effect..ESPECIALLY in lower levels..and will be increasingly highlighted as newer/lower character players roll into being.

Remember E&B is PVE player versus the environment...PLAYER VE, not GVE group versus, not PVEE player versus environment everybody hold hands!

You do NOT need to force grouping for manufacturing/missioning to get player interaction, it happens quite well naturally, when the player needs a gun built he sees the builder to get it built or seeks the ores via the market, he does not need the npc demanding crap from him that is counter to his skill set. Grouping happens naturally via raids and camps or guild events at every lvl of character development, it need not be forced through NPC content also.

/AGREE

[fuulishone]

Actually EnB is an MMO first and foremost, so it's reasonable for a developer to write content that requires interaction. Arguing that a mission should be able to be completed solo doesn't really make much sense in the context of an MMO.

Your entire approach paints a very broad stroke on the whole thing and doesn't really shed much light on the core issue HERE other than what you've experienced in other MMOs. The specific situation you're having issues with is specifically the hull upgrade *OPTIONAL* mission line. AFAIK, none of the core skill/hull upgrade mission lines require anyone to group or even interact. The only mission lines that require any of that are purely optional, and as Byakhee as already stated many times, experimental.

I understand the kneejerk reaction some folks may have when they become worried "WoW-ism" may be creeping into the game, but at the same time, look at those things objectively and really, deeply inspect their long-term impact on the game as opposed to how it inconveniences you in the here and now.

With respect to folks doing "looking for group" and such, is that so bad? There should always be content in any game that isn't soloable and requires folks to band together. That exclusivity is what drives a lot of us as gamers. The mere fact that the FB shouldn't be solo-friendly and requires a group should make the reward that much more, well rewarding. I think content should be accessible to everyone, just not everyone solo.

[Mimir[IS]]

Actually EnB is an MMO first and foremost, so it's reasonable for a developer to write content that requires interaction. Arguing that a mission should be able to be completed solo doesn't really make much sense in the context of an MMO.

Your entire approach paints a very broad stroke on the whole thing and doesn't really shed much light on the core issue HERE other than what you've experienced in other MMOs. The specific situation you're having issues with is specifically the hull upgrade *OPTIONAL* mission line. AFAIK, none of the core skill/hull upgrade mission lines require anyone to group or even interact. The only mission lines that require any of that are purely optional, and as Byakhee as already stated many times, experimental.

I understand the kneejerk reaction some folks may have when they become worried "WoW-ism" may be creeping into the game, but at the same time, look at those things objectively and really, deeply inspect their long-term impact on the game as opposed to how it inconveniences you in the here and now.

With respect to folks doing "looking for group" and such, is that so bad? There should always be content in any game that isn't soloable and requires folks to band together. That exclusivity is what drives a lot of us as gamers. The mere fact that the FB shouldn't be solo-friendly and requires a group should make the reward that much more, well rewarding. I think content should be accessible to everyone, just not everyone solo.

It is not bad unless it is REQUIRED to complete. With only 200+/- players on at any optimal time, the chances of completing a mission requiring specific races and specific skills is BAD. The time of day that I get to play (uninterrupted) is early mornings my time. And the max number of players on at this time has been 70 – 80. You do the math for how long it will be for me to find whatever combination of players I would need out of those 80 players to do the missions.

[fuulishone]

I get that... but again ask yourself, is this grouping part of a core mission line and thus prevents you from moving forward in the game? Or is it simply an optional, nice to have? From Mattacre's complaints, it seems like his issue is with the BB line, which really is truly optional. You must already be OL150 and max hull in order to even start it, so it's not stopping you from any other content.

Edit: Perhaps I'm missing something here. Is there some new mission objective that blocks you from progressing and requires help from other classes and is NOT an optional mission?