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Feedback: "New" Classes PP/TS/JT


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I'm presuming JT is similar, but I can not say for certain. Though if follows the trend of other 2 'new' ones. I feel the difficulty/annoyance of some of the early game missions are kind of high especially for new players and buggy. I had to spend 10mins my self even looking up how to do a PP quest, because it simply would not update. Plus it took them forever to even find the point properly (without use of outside materials) as the point didn't appear till 10k away.

 

Just in general comparing New classes to old classes. The new missions for them has a much higher 'difficulty' /learning curve then others.

 

Opinions on changing I have none, but I guess things should be taken in consideration. Since I've introduced a few, but having to babysit them through parts where I end up getting confused or annoyed with it also. I feel this is fine later in the game. Since well some of the missions give good rewards, but for starters it like eh, really?

 

Just my 2 cents.

 

Also The Missing Transport is the bugged one where it took him a few log outs/and walking over/stopping at the point several times for it to update.

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Having done the training sectors on all 3 of the new classes at the start of Live, as well as in the ST3/ST4, the PT has the hardest training.  The JT's missions, IMO, were fairly straight forward, except for the build comps/engines mission where you had the persuade the NPC to give you the mission and IIRC it's after your first HU you learn this.  The Scout's first mission used to be a PITA, before they put the ores you needed in your mission log, rather than just in the NPC's dialogue.

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Having done the training sectors on all 3 of the new classes at the start of Live, as well as in the ST3/ST4, the PT has the hardest training.  The JT's missions, IMO, were fairly straight forward, except for the build comps/engines mission where you had the persuade the NPC to give you the mission and IIRC it's after your first HU you learn this.  The Scout's first mission used to be a PITA, before they put the ores you needed in your mission log, rather than just in the NPC's dialogue.

 

Yea, I did the TS way before at one point. Had to use the forums to assist lol, but yea I kind of just gave feedback. Most 'newbs' won't make a 'new' class off bat usually, but some do a little research and find there are more and might make one, or get introduced by players who have played before. (Such as this case)

 

 

Been a while, but If I remember currently some JE were a pain, but I could be having memory a loss, but nothing compared to the PTs.

Edited by Heirku
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Most of the newbie sectors were overhauled by me mission-wise about 6-8 months ago.  I know the Privateer sector is still rather difficult, but the rest should be fairly balanced.  the idea was to make enough mission content in those sectors to just get you to level 10 and send you on your way.  Depending on how many skills a player obtains there it could be 3-6 skill missions and a couple repeatables.  Some of the early ones in the JS sector had a very high level mob causing havoc (high level for the sector anyway) that was fixed, things like that.  I probably changed about 50 -100 things all told.

 

 

I meant to give it another pass when I had time, and I still may before the end of the year, especially the scan range radius of the gravity well generator in the privateer sector.  We shall see what gets done.  As far as I was concerned they were all set up properly and matched the criteria (level 10 with all level 2 gear or the credits to buy it, etc) I had set for myself.

 

Give me a list of specific things to take a look at when I have the time.

 

Do it like this (remember i need specifics):

 

- Privateer, Shield Inversion mission, step 3, mob is way too far away from nav

- Scout, Prospect mission, step 6.  Cannot find Oxygen and literally looked everywhere for 20+ minutes.blahblah.

 

Ill take a looksee when I get back. 

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A few of us did write ups as guides a while back.  I do not know how accurate they are still but I am sure you can find them Ryle since you did a few as well.  Maybe updating them, or just posting them somewhere they can be open-sourced may help out a ton too.

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When it comes to the new classes, I think the more pressing concern, particularly for the Scout & Seeker, is their role in a group.  What useful & unique things do these classes bring to a group that makes them necessary in a fight or a raid.  So far I don't think the things they bring are sufficient to pick them over say a JE or a TT in most situations.

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When it comes to the new classes, I think the more pressing concern, particularly for the Scout & Seeker, is their role in a group.  What useful & unique things do these classes bring to a group that makes them necessary in a fight or a raid.  So far I don't think the things they bring are sufficient to pick them over say a JE or a TT in most situations.

 

The TS in particular seems like it was almost designed for solo play. If it had cloak that would seal the deal completely.

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When it comes to the new classes, I think the more pressing concern, particularly for the Scout & Seeker, is their role in a group.  What useful & unique things do these classes bring to a group that makes them necessary in a fight or a raid.  So far I don't think the things they bring are sufficient to pick them over say a JE or a TT in most situations.

I agree with you 100%. Take the TS skills that are unique to them, if you for some reason you lose form with the group the buffs stop being beneficial for the group. I can say group dynamics in raids is far from perfect and people disconnect often making that part of the skill some what useless. The PT in my opinion is the one lacking the most in the unique skill department.

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I agree with you 100%. Take the TS skills that are unique to them, if you for some reason you lose form with the group the buffs stop being beneficial for the group. I can say group dynamics in raids is far from perfect and people disconnect often making that part of the skill some what useless. The PT in my opinion is the one lacking the most in the unique skill department.

 

Totally agree there, I do think that the Scout's skills should be usable outside of formation.  If they'd raise them by 2 levels, and make them AoE for all players within a certain radius of the Scout at the time the skill is cast, or if that's too powerful, group members within said radius, it would be an improvement on both those skills. 

 

Problem with NF, though, is it doesn't, unless it has "hidden" buffs really do anything other than deal with environmental effects, which greatly limits it's usefulness, for now at least..  JE's e-shield actually has some, albeit small, buffs to players it's cast upon.  L1 and L2 increases all deflects except Psionic by 5, L3 by 10.  L5+ gives feedback to any damage taken except energy damage (not sure on absolute damage), and L6+ returns small amounts of energy to reactors, upon being hit by any damage type other than energy damage (not sure on absolute damage).

 

The JE also has class specific devices to support groups.  The Scout & Seeker are hurting badly there, the JT has one the Quasar line of devices, as far as I know the Scout has none.    What I think needs to happen on this front is that at least 6 new effects for activated devices need to be created, 3 for the Scout & 3 for the Seeker.   These effects need to be things never seen before, useful to groups, and most importantly, they must be unique.  JEs have things that if you want you must bring a JE to get, the same must apply to the Scout & Seeker if they're ever to get up to speed.   

 

There's one line of devices that are TT only, that might make more sense if they were Scout only. (could work for the JT too, being from the explorer race, but debuffing seems to be more an explorer's job)  The Profiler line of devices comes to mind.  They're an activated Psionic debuffer.   TTs may not like that though, but then again, they may not care between Recharging Shields & Patching Hulls.

 

I also agree that the PT needs work too.  Starting with a L7 unique skill.  Equipment for support as well, the PT's ability to contribute DPS, puts it ahead of the Scout & JT, but they shouldn't be neglected either.

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Totally agree there, I do think that the Scout's skills should be usable outside of formation.  If they'd raise them by 2 levels, and make them AoE for all players within a certain radius of the Scout at the time the skill is cast, or if that's too powerful, group members within said radius, it would be an improvement on both those skills. 

 

Problem with NF, though, is it doesn't, unless it has "hidden" buffs really do anything other than deal with environmental effects, which greatly limits it's usefulness, for now at least..  JE's e-shield actually has some, albeit small, buffs to players it's cast upon.  L1 and L2 increases all deflects except Psionic by 5, L3 by 10.  L5+ gives feedback to any damage taken except energy damage (not sure on absolute damage), and L6+ returns small amounts of energy to reactors, upon being hit by any damage type other than energy damage (not sure on absolute damage).

 

I had the same ideas with the TS.  Here are some of the things floating around in my head.
 
1) Afterburn could be 7 levels with the following breakdown:
 
[a]  Levels 1-4 could be the current self buff increasing the Scout's abilities by 2% - 3.5% (i think thats what it already is set)
 
[b]  Levels 5 & 6 could enable a new ability called "Scramjet" (or whatever name) that gives a friendly target the Afterburn effect.  The levels could continue to increase the effects of Afterburn and "Scramjet" by .5% (iirc)
 
[c]  Level 7 could enable the final ability "Overload" that activates Afterburn with a 6% total gain on all group members (including the Scout) within a 2k-4k radius.
 
 
2) Null Factor Field could have two separate effects:
 
[a]  A formation effect that boosts all weapons (Beam, PL & ML) reload rate as well as the current effects.
 
[b]  A 2k-3k range effect that only grants the current buffs.
 
The NF could also be stackable with the Environ Shield with the shield only bestowing the resistances, damage absorption, and damage feedback to a ship under the NF buff.
 
The TS has potential to be a great profession.  The ship (as do the JS and PP) just needs to be pulled into dock and retrofitted with the latest tech, thats all. 
 
Thoughts?
Edited by Tiet_Drifter
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Afterburn should definitely be 7 levels IMO, as should Null Factor.  I would add the two titles you proposed to the 3 existing titles, and make it a conventional level 7 skill.  I generally like your idea but would consider re-arranging the titles.  The 3 existing titles are Superglide, Ramjet, and Ludicrous Speed.  Perhaps they could be arranged Superglide, Ramjet, Scramjet, Ludicrous Speed, and Overload.  I'd also move the always warp in gravity wells over to L7 Afterburn, from L5 Null-Factor in addition to the features you'd add to it.  Essentially I agree with your overall premise though.  Since we have more classes than we have members allowed in a group, I'd make the L6 version AoE to group, and L7 AoE to all players within range.

 

I don't think NF should get turbo weapons as a "hidden" or open effect, but I could see adding some other thing to the skill.  I could see adding a passive Psionic deflect at L3, adding a never seen before buff of some sort & applying it to group members at L5.  At L6 make it AoE to group members, and at L7 AoE to all players at L7.  If new environmental effects are to be added to the game at some point in the future, it could also protect against them at L6 and L7.

 

I think for the Scout there will need to be new activated device effects (never seen before) on Scout exclusive devices, but I'd not restrict the support devices to use only on people in the same group (same would apply to JE, JT, and TT support devices).   This same statement should apply to the JT and PT as well, though the PT should probably get 1 or 2 fewer new activated effects than the Scout & Seeker, since the PT has significantly more firepower.  The PT also has the advantage of one free slot for a new L7 support skill of some sort, as well as a L135 skill (assuming the devs have enough unused skills to make something for the PT). 

 

One thing I'd give the JT Is a line of devices that remove debuffs.  They would be class exclusive devices, and the disable skills effect of the mob's hacking players would not prevent it's use.  There could be a failure possibility in using this device, and there should be a cooldown timer on it, but not too long, maybe 10-20 seconds.  Energy usage for the device should be similar to devices of the same level.

 

I could see the Scout getting a L3-L9 line of PM devices that use the slow weapons debuff as an exclusive line of PM debuffers.  There is an existing debuffer that the JE can use that does this (L8 Withering Age in db), but it's not manufacturable.  The JE might occasionally have this one, but for a Scout it should be nearly as commonplace as a Chimaera of the same level.  This would make the Scout much more useful in group fights. 

 

An existing line of TT Only Psionic debuffers could be moved to the Scout instead.

 

The Seeker could get a line of PM debuffers, that make mob's skill use more vulnerable to interruption.  A JT debuffing the mob, would mean that less damage (of any given type) would be required to interrupt skill use.  Interruption should have a chance of failing, like in EnB Origins, even if enough damage is done, but this device effect should make it less likely.

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Afterburn should definitely be 7 levels IMO, as should Null Factor.  I would add the two titles you proposed to the 3 existing titles, and make it a conventional level 7 skill.  I generally like your idea but would consider re-arranging the titles.  The 3 existing titles are Superglide, Ramjet, and Ludicrous Speed.  Perhaps they could be arranged Superglide, Ramjet, Scramjet, Ludicrous Speed, and Overload.  I'd also move the always warp in gravity wells over to L7 Afterburn, from L5 Null-Factor in addition to the features you'd add to it.  Essentially I agree with your overall premise though.  Since we have more classes than we have members allowed in a group, I'd make the L6 version AoE to group, and L7 AoE to all players within range.

 

I’ve been rolling your expanded ideas of the Scout’s skills.  Here is something using our combined ideas:

 

Lvl1 – SuperGlide – 3% increase to turning speed.  Self-buff

Lvl2 – additional 0.5% increase to turning speed

Lvl3 – Ramjet – 4% increase to turning and combat speed.  5% enemy avoidance.  Self-buff

Lvl4 – additional 0.5% (4.5% total) to turning and combat speed

Lvl5 – Scramjet – 5% to turning, combat and warp speeds. 10% enemy avoidance.  Target Buff

Lvl6 – Ludicrous Speed – 5.5% increase to turning, combat and warp speeds.  40% chance to warp in gravity fields/shears.  10% enemy avoidance.  AoE to all group members within 5k range and Scout.

Lvl7 – Overload – 6% to turning, combat, warp. 100% chance to warp in gravity field/shear.  10% enemy avoidance.  6% stackable decrease to base warp initialize.  3-6% increase to warp cooldown.  AoE to all players within 5k range and Scout.

 

I know that taking Combat and warp speeds off Lvls 3 and 5 probably won’t be too popular, but it’s a thought at least.  I thought a warp cooldown increase for the Lvl7 skill would kinda balance it out and stick with the theme of the “OVERLOAD!!” skill.  All this ultimately would be up for the devs to decide.  I would be ecstatic to just see the Scout reworked.  I enjoy my TS very much, next to my JE.  :-p

 

I don't think NF should get turbo weapons as a "hidden" or open effect, but I could see adding some other thing to the skill.  I could see adding a passive Psionic deflect at L3, adding a never seen before buff of some sort & applying it to group members at L5.  At L6 make it AoE to group members, and at L7 AoE to all players at L7.  If new environmental effects are to be added to the game at some point in the future, it could also protect against them at L6 and L7.

 

I wouldn’t see much use for NF (at Lvl 7 anyways) if the 100% warp is moved to Afterburn as we discussed above.  Maybe it could make the TS, and others at the last Lvl (5 or 7), resistant to certain debuffs like Hack.  Possibly a 1.5% - 2% increment per Lvl if it would be implemented.  This is, of course, in addition to its current abilities.

 

 

I think for the Scout there will need to be new activated device effects (never seen before) on Scout exclusive devices, but I'd not restrict the support devices to use only on people in the same group (same would apply to JE, JT, and TT support devices).

 

I could see the Scout getting a L3-L9 line of PM devices that use the slow weapons debuff as an exclusive line of PM debuffers.  There is an existing debuffer that the JE can use that does this (L8 Withering Age in db), but it's not manufacturable.  The JE might occasionally have this one, but for a Scout it should be nearly as commonplace as a Chimaera of the same level.  This would make the Scout much more useful in group fights. 

 

An existing line of TT Only Psionic debuffers could be moved to the Scout instead.

 

The scout could have a set of “Shunt to…” devices as well.  In keeping with the Scout’s theme, it could have the following:

 

  1. … to Warp (from Impulse)
  2. … to Impulse (from Warp)
  3. … to weaps (from either Impulse or Warp)
  4. … to Impulse (from weaps)
  5. … to Warp (from weaps)

Etc…

It could be Shunt to Warp or Impulse from something else or the other way around.  It would be similar to the JE with their Shunt to/from reactor items. I know that turbo warp/impulse and increase warp/impulse have been done many times but I don’t know if those types of shunts ever had been done.

 

 

 

One thing I'd give the JT Is a line of devices that remove debuffs.  They would be class exclusive devices, and the disable skills effect of the mob's hacking players would not prevent it's use.  There could be a failure possibility in using this device, and there should be a cooldown timer on it, but not too long, maybe 10-20 seconds.  Energy usage for the device should be similar to devices of the same level.

 

That would be good!  They could have that and/or a line of debuff transfer devices.  i.e.  If the Seeker has a chem debuff on them they could either negate the debuff or transfer the debuff back to the mob.

Perhaps the JT could get debuff removers at Lvls 3-9 and the debuff transfer devices at Lvls 7-9.

 

Good discussion here.  Some stuff for everybody to chew on.

Edited by Tiet_Drifter
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I think we're pretty much on the same page there.  I'm probably start it at 5 at L3, and by L5 increase it to 10.  That way it would cover the one deflect that E-shield doesn't cover, to the same level that E-shield does but wouldn't drop from damage the way Psi Shield does.  By keeping it low, it still leaves room for other psionic deflects that can be obtained.  Having a Tolerance, Dense Bullywere Chitin (Jen Only), or Ebony Ward would be equipped Psionic deflects, plus the JE has a line of devices that can add an activated Psionic deflect.  Those would essentially stack, to whatever the limit is on a player raising his deflects.  The Psionic would help since the higher your Psionic deflect, the more you're able to resist enemy skill use, including being hacked, and enemy debuffing.  Between a JE (environment Shield 3 or higher) & a Scout (Null-factor 7), all deflects would be raised by 10 over what they would be without them, except for those players who have somehow reached the max allowed deflects.  The JE would have to do more work, as they have to cast it individually on players, while the Scout would only have to cast it once, to get everyone in range.  JE's got the reactor for it, it would just take time.

 

The JT's dispel device, would handle those debuffs that got through.

 

I'm not sure what would be a good additional buff to add at L5, but it should be something never seen before.  By placing the AoE effects only on the highest levels, the Scout would have to max the skill to get the most use out of it.  L1-L5 would keep the formation requirements that the skill currently has.  L6 would affect all group members within a certain range, and L7 all players, regardless of group within a certain range.

 

What I'd wonder, is what effect could the devs add at say L5, that aren't seen before.  I'm not sure of the devs' limitations there. 

 

I could see some increase speed (activated) devices for the Scout, though Afterburn would tend to do that, and if you've got it maxed, it would be an AoE skill regardless of group.  I've always thought that full immunity to gravity wells at EL25 was too low a level for that, but was reasonable at EL45, since Navigate 7 requires EL45 to do it half as well.  Now if the gravity well immunity was kept on NF, but moved to the L7 version it would still work for me but I like it better on Afterburn.

 

The devs once mentioned a scan blind environmental effect.  There are 2 nebula sectors that are either in the maps or have existing under construction gates to, this effect could be in those sectors.  Sho'da'kan Nebula, and Edienmist Nebula.  Maybe the effect could also be in Nebiros.  Could be protected from by both e-shield & L6 NF.  Perhaps they could add 2 more effects at some time in the future, one that's only protected from by L7 NF, while the other is only protected by E-shield. 

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  • 3 weeks later...

Good ideas here, I will work on integrating these ideas with my "class specializations".

Especially for the three new classes.

*Thumbs up*  I like the ideas.  I'm enjoying the Terran Scout, but would love to see some of these suggestions get integrated.   Would definitely like to see Afterburn get a work over, I hardly use it, but then again I'm still lower in level and haven't played the character to the end yet.  I like what I see so far, but I have yet to play enough to give feedback.

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