paul [BT] Posted March 17, 2012 Report Share Posted March 17, 2012 After hunting some 60's in antares with my JE I noticed that alot of the hits i took dealt 0 damage while i was cloaked. I know in the past cloak was tweaked so that any projectiles on route to you after you cloaked wouldnt deal any damage because it would decloak you. I think this is a bit too much. The projectiles on live wouldn't decloak you when they hit but they would still deal damage. Their was the few seconds while you were casting cloak that it could be interupted but once you were cloaked you were good providing that the shots on route wouldnt kill you. My suggestion it to stop the 0 damage while cloaked, but dont let that damage decloak you... unless it kills you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyp [LDEV] Posted March 17, 2012 Report Share Posted March 17, 2012 I remember that too. Hmmm... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tienbau Posted March 18, 2012 Report Share Posted March 18, 2012 yep sounds good Paul. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul [BT] Posted March 18, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 18, 2012 Was expecting a flood of jenpies to come an shoot this one down lol But yea, it needs to be tweaked a bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terrell [BT] Posted March 18, 2012 Report Share Posted March 18, 2012 Nah, no need to shoot at that one, it seems reasonable. Cloak should be interruptable, but not at the extremes of any hit you take interrupts it, or no interruption possible, ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul [BT] Posted March 18, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 18, 2012 Its not just the interupt i was talking about. Its the hits for 0 damage you take while ur cloaked from the projectiles on route to you. Because of that jenpies take very little damage during combat unless they get into the mobs beam range. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terrell [BT] Posted March 18, 2012 Report Share Posted March 18, 2012 That's not unreasonable either. Was a bit more concerned about interruption, than getting a little damage while cloaking, or shortly after cloak fully engages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kjeron Posted March 19, 2012 Report Share Posted March 19, 2012 Cloak's been a roller coaster of effectiveness so far. From what I remember: ST3: auto-interrupt on any damage - useless ST4: beginning to Mordana: no interrupt, full damage immunity once cloaked - overpowered shortly after Mordana: auto-interrupt on any damage - useless very shortly after that until now: no interrupt, half damage once cloaked, partial chance of avoiding shots once cloaked (the 0 damage) - still overpowered compared to live, not as much here considering almost every mob was given missiles. My vote: Activation interruption should be no different from any other skill, if enough damage is done during the activation, skill is interrupted. Once complete and active: Shot's that were en-route while cloak was activating should not disrupt cloak, but should hit as normal. Shot's made by mobs with "See Cloaked" after cloak has finished, should be able to disrupt cloak, either enough damage over time or % chance per shot. If any evasion bonus is going to be applied, it should only be towards missiles, Beams/Projectiles are fire&forget, they don't need to see their target, fortunately a stat exists for this, Missile Defense, though I don't think it has any implementation yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tienbau Posted March 19, 2012 Report Share Posted March 19, 2012 I'll put in an amendment for the next restart (unless we crash in the meantime!) and then we can see what needs changing from there. There was a suggestion that any critical hit sustained during the cloaking period should have a chance to decloak you. Should I put that in too? Maybe the chance to decloak to should drop with increasing cloak skill? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tienbau Posted March 19, 2012 Report Share Posted March 19, 2012 ah sorry will I replied before I saw your post - that sounds like a very good scheme. Currently no mobs can see cloaked. How should 'see cloak' work on those mobs? Is there a cumulative chance for them to spot you the longer you linger or is it just a one off check? I guess it should depend on what's happening too - if they were just shooting at you and you vanished they should have a much higher chance of finding you than if you were just passing by without firing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terrell [BT] Posted March 19, 2012 Report Share Posted March 19, 2012 [quote name='Tienbau' timestamp='1332120505' post='55707'] ah sorry will I replied before I saw your post - that sounds like a very good scheme. Currently no mobs can see cloaked. How should 'see cloak' work on those mobs? Is there a cumulative chance for them to spot you the longer you linger or is it just a one off check? I guess it should depend on what's happening too - if they were just shooting at you and you vanished they should have a much higher chance of finding you than if you were just passing by without firing. [/quote] Only mobs that possess the Scan skill, are of sufficent level to have learned the skill, and obtained L3 Scan should be able to see cloaked at all. The OL required to learn the skill is higher than the EL required to raise it to L3 for those classes that get Scan. Mobs that do not possess the scan skill should not be able to see cloaked unless they're "grouped" (whatever the mobs' equivalent to grouping is) with a mob with Scan 5 or better. A minimum OL for mobs to have the scan skill, should probably be comparable to the minimum level of the player classes that get the skill, maybe a little lower. Mobs with the Scan skill, other than the V'rix, should be few & far between. There should be some, but the vast majority of mobs should not be able to see cloaked. Mobs with the Scan skill should have an apropraite level for their EL. If mobs are assumed to have the same EL and TL as CL that should be fairly easy. As Cloak & Scan are both considered Explore skills, level based checks should be EL based, not CL based and should only apply to mobs with the Scan skill. If there are going to be cloak vs scan skill level checks, then there will need to be equipment that allows Jenquai, especially the JW and JT to boost their cloak skill, for those checks, beyond L5. As far as I know Improved Cloaking is supposed to partially counter see cloaked devices, but I don't know if it has any effect against the Scan skill. The standard buffs from improved cloaking being increase stealth strike time for Combat Cloak from 5 seconds to 10 seconds. and reduce engage time for Cloak & Advanced Cloak, but Cloaking can never engage faster than 3 seconds, regardless of buffs. Sharim, Shinwa, Sha'ha'dem, Sabine, and Hyperia, should also get the ability, but since most will not be hostile to these factions, I was not intending to include them in my "few & far between" statement. Though those who hunt RD may find themselves hostile to the Sharim, since killing either RD or Sharim lowers both factions. (unless that's been changed since live or recently) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattsacre Posted March 19, 2012 Report Share Posted March 19, 2012 Live the "see cloaked" skill for mobs worked like they were comaed, if you were cloaked and their scan range was say normally say 5km, while cloaked it worked as a reduced scan range vs you as cloaked enemy. As you entered their normal scan range that someone else uncloaked would be seen, you as a cloaked target wouldn't be seen until you got much closer, then when you entered the new reduced-by-cloak target range they would see through cloak and agro. I don't know if there is any docs on what that reduced range is or should be, but I bet if you compaired coma devices debuffs and applied those ranges you would be close. If not that, the say half range or some such should be good, but SEE CLOAKED was never a automatic see through all cloak, it was a reduced sight range vs. cloaked when compared to noncloaked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul [BT] Posted March 19, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 19, 2012 In live cloak against mobs that could see through it kinda worked like a minus sig, you could get a bit closer than you normaly would but would spot you if you got too close. This was the same in the arena, a guildies PS couldnt see my JE untill i got within about 3-4k then he spotted me an tore me a new one lol. As for mobs that can see through cloak, atm their isnt any vrix so id start with the raid bosses/mobs, makes sence that they sould be able to see through it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tienbau Posted March 19, 2012 Report Share Posted March 19, 2012 that sounds logical and what's more pretty straightforward to get working. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Algaron [BTL] Posted April 18, 2012 Report Share Posted April 18, 2012 (edited) I have found that Mordana seem to have the ability to See cloak - at least that how it appears on my Cloaked JD as they are pummelling me. As for breaking cloak it should take some considerable damage in order to break or interrupt cloak. Not just some random critical hit they happen to fire off, but real damage. For a skill that takes a minimum of 3 seconds to activate fully enough to mitigate damage, it should be sturdy enough to take any hits from just one mob including boss mobs. However if more than one mob is firing at you, than that would be enough to break cloak. Eg Blackbeard Minions or Mordana. When 4 or 5 of these mobs fire on a cloaked ship, cloak is broken. It happens currently and is working fine. Lets not go nuts and make cloak so useless that JD's can't even use it. Remember cloak is or should be a jenquai's defensive skill as well as offensive skill. Other classes use HDC or whatever to mitigate their damage... and they don't have to cast it nor does it get interrupted. Also while we are talking about Combat Cloak - could we also have a look at Stealth Strike. Any Improved Cloaking buff should increase Stealth Strike time double the normal 5 secs. Currently it is only 5 seconds regardless of the buff on my Ghost Edge for example. Some JD actually try to use the full length of Stealth Strike. It would be great if we could make that work as intended. Edited April 18, 2012 by Algaron 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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