Traders & Explorers

[Terrell [BT]]

One of the game's primary weaknesses was lack of things for Traders & Explorers to use their core profession skills in ways other than just supplying players with items/ores. Since we have bases in space, those bases need supplies to stay running. How about each base having NPCs that offer missions based on profession to get things that the station needs, outside of the usual Trade runs that are done.

For Traders, there could be NPCs that give level apropraite missions to obtain particular items, that they would need their Build Components skill to build. Some of the halloween items were analyzable and could theoretically be manufactured if one obtained the apropriate parts (Boo Ghost Bursts come to mind). So each base could need particular items, that only a Trader with the apropraite level of build comps could make. NPCs would give the trader the recipe for particular needs, and they would have to go out and find the items that are necessary. If it's possible to create another category under components, it may make it easier on recipe books, if not, then put it somewhere the way Boo Ghost Bursts were. The new items would generally not require ores to make, but would be things that are within a level apropriate Trader's means to obtain.

There would be missions for all explorers that require certian things that are made at the refine terminal. The explorer would have to mine some particular ores, perhaps get a drop or two, and go to the refine terminal to make what the station needs. (in live Lyle McDonald's mission required refining to ultimately make a ring.)

Players who complete such missions would get Trade & Explore XP, enough money so that doing the mission resulted in a small profit, and faction with the owner of the station. Missions would in in most cases be repeatable. Some would not.

This could be an alternative to using the job terminals and vary around the galaxy. NPCs offering such missions would have level requirements for doing such missions, much like jobs, but it would involve doing things that are specific to the char's profession.

Orefields would have to be improved, since they would have to support explorers doing such missions, in addition to the market's needs for ores in components. It would give explorers something to do besides mine and vendor, that would be within what their profession was designed for.

There could also be various types of recon missions that are doable by all, that reward Explore XP and faction.

The amounts of faction given would have to be relatively small, but for bigger and more difficult missions the rewards should increase apropraitely.

Edit: NPCs can also offer bounties for particular drops that are turned in, this would be doable by all classes, but warriors would find these bounties easier to collect. The reward, Explore & Trade XP, small amount of faction.

Edit: These missions may require level bands. The Ketsugo Observation Outpost missions in Live did. There were particular levels you had to be to do the mission around the N7 beacon, killing spindles, and killing Zenshai. The particular missions had both min and max levels. The last one to Kill Zenshai was repeatable, but you coudln't do it beyond CL20. The Agippa Tech missions also have level bands. You must be at least X level to do, but not more than Y level.

[Yuritau]

[quote name='Terrell' timestamp='1314059718' post='45082']
There would be missions for all explorers that require certian things that are made at the refine terminal. The explorer would have to mine some particular ores, perhaps get a drop or two, and go to the refine terminal to make what the station needs. (in live Lyle McDonald's mission required refining to ultimately make a ring.)
[/quote]

Or even just double or triple refined versions of the ores that currently don't really have any use.

I love this idea.

[Tyran]

I don't really like rewards of cash, xp and faction, it's too job-like...

Would rather have non manuf items with unique buffs. Not sure what repeatable missions would give then, maybe consumable items.

[ryleyra]

[quote name='Tyran' timestamp='1314082055' post='45094']
I don't really like rewards of cash, xp and faction, it's too job-like...[/quote]

What are you rewarded for combat with?

[quote]Would rather have non manuf items with unique buffs. Not sure what repeatable missions would give then, maybe consumable items.
[/quote]

Well, granted, it would be nice if Trade or Exploration gave you some sort of "drops" that you could then use. Then again, there is something like this with Mining, the Hulks give you the same sort of drops that combat does. Maybe Trade Runs could every now and then reward you with a "drop" of some kind?

I personally had an idea for a concept for gaining Exploration XP. Sentinels have an item they can turn in for Explore XP, in Progen Gene Maps. You can even sell these to a Progen if you find them. Along the same likes, I thought it would be interesting if, along with the Jenquai Seeker, there were introduced stolen Jenquai Relics, (this is supposed to be the reason behind the founding of the Seekers, to reclaim relics stolen during the Gate Way) which could be turned in to a shrine in the Seeker home system. Unlike with Progen, ANY Jenquai could turn in these items, since they are supposed to specialize with Exploration, the way Terrans specialize in Trade and Progen in Combat. Other races could sell these items to the Jenquai, and maybe even get a bit of an Explore Bonus, like how you get a Trade Bonus for trading items with other players.

This could be extended to things like alien artifacts, coded transmissions, and biological samples that would be valuable to researchers, spies, and scientists for all three races. (And of course the Progen Gene Maps) The Jenquai would just be "specialists" with this kind of XP.

Another idea I had was for Explorers (and Jenquai) to do recon. They could go into a group of critters under cloak, (Sentinels and Scouts might have to either stand off a few clicks, or rush through them and endure some fire) and do a "scan", which would give them a data disk with a report on the strength of the foes. They could then be taken back to the starbase and sold.

I think there was also a suggestion on live that Explorers could take the ores that they mine, and perhaps refine/craft them into some sort of accessories or ornamentation. The other players could then buy them, and fit them to their ships. (Or character, so they could be some sort of jewelry) It wouldn't do anything, but it would add more customization to the game, and give the Explorers more to do.

There's also the Progen Construction project, it takes refined ores. In live anyway, I can see it there at Mars, but haven't checked it. I also know on live there was a Hyperion gate being built (to Proxima Centauri?) but as the Hyperian Explorers are now in game (as is Proxima Centauri) I doubt it's still around. I also noted there was something in Antares. Edited August 23, 2011 by Dragoncove

[Tyran]

[quote name='Dragoncove' timestamp='1314133900' post='45117']
What are you rewarded for combat with?[/quote]
No need to patronize.

Items obtainable no other way, mission items thus, are a far greater incentive than XP (useless if maxed), faction (only RD faction really matters), and cash (unless you are given more cash than you may obtain per given time for combat, cash is a poor motivator).

[ryleyra]

[quote name='Tyran' timestamp='1314136716' post='45122']
No need to patronize.[/quote]

That was not meant to be patronizing. I was merely pointing out that credits, XP and faction are rewarded for Combat. It seems consistent for credits, XP and faction to be rewarded for Trade and Exploration, as well. (And AFAIK, neither award faction points as it stands)

[quote]Items obtainable no other way, mission items thus, are a far greater incentive than XP (useless if maxed), faction (only RD faction really matters), and cash (unless you are given more cash than you may obtain per given time for combat, cash is a poor motivator).
[/quote]

Which is why I added the second part of my post. Yes, loot is an important reward from Combat, and it would be nice if it was awarded as a reward for Trade and Exploration as well. However, if these activities did not award XP, and only loot, it would be impossible to level.

There is no need for YOU to be patronizing either. Yes, the endgame is important. However, not everyone is at the endgame, and everyone must level to get to the endgame. You want to ensure that there are sufficient rewards for both those who already have max XP, and those who are still levelling. Edited August 23, 2011 by Dragoncove

[ryleyra]

Actually, now that I think about it, I remembered ANOTHER suggestion from live. So-called "Super Asteroids" or "Epic Asteroids". The idea is that there is a special procedure to make an asteroid or hulk appear, perhaps like clearing the field. These would contain special loot that would be similar to making a given MOB appear. This would be random, but could spawn multiples of the special asteroid, so you could have folks group so they all get items. This would certainly qualify as endgame or even raid content, depending on how complicated the task was, and how widely the field was effected.

I'm honestly not really sure how we can add special loot to Trade, but since special loot usually directly effects crafting, in that it consumes the loot, instead of gaining it, maybe it doesn't have to.

[Terrell [BT]]

The main reason I included Faction was because the content here for Explorers & Traders is largely in the form of missions. IMO whenever you do a mission for an NPC, other than missions to learn skills, you should get at least a little faction (even if it's only 5 points worth). I'd also rather work on faction by doing missions than killing thousands of small mobs. How much dependent on the nature of the mission involved. The same applying to XP and item rewards.

I think that faction should matter when the game is live, not just in terms of where you can or cannot land, but it should have an effect on prices for goods and services from NPCs/terminals in stations. Should also, IMO affect analyze chance, dismantle chance, and build quality. (Everyone work on your Glenn Commission faction ) I also like the idea of some missions having faction prerequesites.

The reason I made them in the form of missions, and various bounties (turn-ins) for Explore XP as well as Trade XP & faction is it's something that has been done before, so it should be possible to do again. If there are other things that can be done for Trade & Explore that would be good too.

Not all bounties need to be openly announced. There could be some, with higher rewards, where the NPC only mentions wanting something if you have said something he wants. (Josher & Manes Essence for example)

I am not in any way opposed to missions that reward items, prints, etc. Traders & Explorers are supporters in combat, but we're not going to always be in raids, or groups. Much of the time we're going to be playing solo, and there should be things for us to do that either earn us prints, or enable us to earn prints, doing what we were designed to do, rather than acting as warriors without the combat benefits.

[BrixunMortar]

WAAAAH WAHHHHHHHHHH!!!! More tears from explorers! do u not understand how much money a pw spends to level combat?! a trader can make money easy for missiles/projectiles! a jenpie uses no ammo! yes a warrior can get loot but look at the ammo expenditure everytime he fights! do we not need an income from somewhere!? all i hear in moans is from damn explorers! if u wanna fight make a damn fighter! if u wanna explore make an explorer! if u wanna make money....guess wot! yes make a trader! use the guy u pick for the task he designed for! sheeeesh

[Tyran]

Dear progen worior brixunmortar,

Since your race reproduces through cloning, your petit shango has been left out your DNA as you don't need it. So it is you who does not require ammo.

[Terrell [BT]]

[quote name='BrixunMortar' timestamp='1314159385' post='45141']
WAAAAH WAHHHHHHHHHH!!!! More tears from explorers! do u not understand how much money a pw spends to level combat?! a trader can make money easy for missiles/projectiles! a jenpie uses no ammo! yes a warrior can get loot but look at the ammo expenditure everytime he fights! do we not need an income from somewhere!? all i hear in moans is from damn explorers! if u wanna fight make a damn fighter! if u wanna explore make an explorer! if u wanna make money....guess wot! yes make a trader! use the guy u pick for the task he designed for! sheeeesh
[/quote]

The whole point of this thread was about Traders and Explorers having more content that DOES NOT involve fighting, or minimal fighting. We're not looking to be warriors, we're looking to be Explorers & Traders, and do Explorer & Trader things.

[rhobix]

[quote name='Dragoncove' timestamp='1314140401' post='45130']
Actually, now that I think about it, I remembered ANOTHER suggestion from live. So-called "Super Asteroids" or "Epic Asteroids". The idea is that there is a special procedure to make an asteroid or hulk appear, perhaps like clearing the field. These would contain special loot that would be similar to making a given MOB appear. This would be random, but could spawn multiples of the special asteroid, so you could have folks group so they all get items. This would certainly qualify as endgame or even raid content, depending on how complicated the task was, and how widely the field was effected.

I'm honestly not really sure how we can add special loot to Trade, but since special loot usually directly effects crafting, in that it consumes the loot, instead of gaining it, maybe it doesn't have to.
[/quote]
I have the following suggestions to make raid like prospecting events:

- Set up a timed wave of fields spawning: If you mine the original field fast enough a new one of higher level will spawn. If you clear that one within a set amount of time, an even higher level field will spawn. If you fail to clear it in time, it will just revert to the original field. This would continue until you reach a level 9 field, after which a super hulk field would spawn with the "raid loot". The richness of the final hulk field could even depend on the speed at which the other fields are cleared, giving more rewards for faster cleans, so there is more to go around if you team up and clear the fields faster.

- Puzzles: Clear a field in a specific order or direction and a super hulk will spawn.

- Mixed raids: Introduce prospecting as a step in an otherwise ordinary raid to get the next mob spawn, or clearing of ore field guardians as a condition of super hulks to spawn.

- Make your own road kills. Warp over an injured raid boss to get a road kill like there used to be in TD in live.

[Tyran]

Gonna be a lotta qq with mining raids if there are no mobs involved.

Even if there are mobs involved they would need see cloaked.

Otherwise I will just sit back and let others do the bulk of the mining. Once the goodies appear, then I will help out ofcourse.

[rhobix]

[quote name='Tyran' timestamp='1314169486' post='45150']
Gonna be a lotta qq with mining raids if there are no mobs involved.

Even if there are mobs involved they would need see cloaked.

Otherwise I will just sit back and let others do the bulk of the mining. Once the goodies appear, then I will help out ofcourse.
[/quote]
Of course, pure explore raids would only attract explorers and perhaps the odd dual boxed trader for extra cargo space. I think the idea of not being dependant on warriors is kind of the point to those.

If part of mixed raid, both prospectables and mobs would have to spawn simultaneously to keep everyone busy. The warriors would only have themselves to blame if they didn't bring enough exporers to keep up with the prospecting...

If my suggestion to adjust drop quantity/quality to prospect speed were implemented, you would hurt yourself too if you didn't help all the way...

On the other hand, if the loot was really coveted, some kind of looting rights on the super hulks would probably be necessary to prevent ninja looting.

[Vitaes]

[quote name='Dragoncove' timestamp='1314133900' post='45117']



There's also the Progen Construction project, it takes refined ores. In live anyway, I can see it there at Mars, but haven't checked it. I also know on live there was a Hyperion gate being built (to Proxima Centauri?) but as the Hyperian Explorers are now in game (as is Proxima Centauri) I doubt it's still around. I also noted there was something in Antares.
[/quote]

This idea was very successfully done in Asheron's Call, with people seeking and donating salvaged materials of all type to help build a new town (in a moderately dangerous area). It was scaled so that you had to donate a certain amount, and there was a unique item reward, as well as a special reward of access to an area. I can see faction plus XP and a item as a reward for building a new base in a sector. (too bad faction is not fully implemented in game yet). And yes, it should take months of concerted effort by many players to get it up and running.

[Mattsacre]

It was succsessfully done here first . The Mars Construction project was the progens answer to the vrix, since they lost so many capital ships in defense of primus (and lost it to the vrix from lack of aid from the other 2 races). Khan instituted the MCP, increased resource supplies from all races (at the time only JE and PS could mine), to increase the manufacture of capital ships.

As miners turned in stacks of ores they got some xp and tokens, those tokens could later be exchanged for uber items, some tradable, some not, and some kind of off the wall(like ore compressor..it let you fit more ore in a slot than 300.)

Part of the story line also included the RD ship "honor" needed to be killed by a group so it didnt steal ore stockpiles. One of the cool things of the MCP was the resource tracking.when you turned in ores it actually kept track of real turn-ins per server, so there was a inter-server competition to get to ore threshholds and bragging rights. Ea type of ore required had diffeig xp rewards for the value of ore and credits.

They later instituted the "healing the maw" mission line becuase of both the popularity of the MCP content, but nonminers not really included in it. With that mission line it took miners to get the ores to make the healing balm true, but also combat to get loot drops for the balm injector. The Jenqerium had the maw project and the rewards were more class diverse than the MCP.

The Jenqerium maw missions gave better xp and credit rewards over all becuase of the manufacturing required in the process, but didn't have the resource tracker that the MCP did, other than the individuals token rewarded. So both had their appeal and great gear for token rewards to boot!

[Terrell [BT]]

You also had to build the balm injectors in the healing the shear mission. This required the Build Devices skill. Can't remember if the balm injectors were tradeable or not, but the empty injectors were not tradeable. They were instead taken to the Councillor on Prasad Station in the hangar, where you could get particular items for enough empty injectors. The recipe for the Tolerance as well as the Intolerance could be earned doing this mission, some non-manu PLs, the recipe for the Invisible eye, the Specialized Build Computer R and S lines of devices. The JE was the best class at doing this particular mission because of the travel between Paren Station & Tarsis that was required. You had to take the mission from Ariad, (Mejan had went missing, and Ariad moved to Paren Station) fly to Mondara Maelstrom, use an injector, return to Paren, repeat. You could not take multiples of this mission at the same time.

The Balm run gave 2% of a post 150 explore level per mission.

[Mattsacre]

[quote name='Terrell' timestamp='1318474493' post='47258']
You also had to build the balm injectors in the healing the shear mission. This required the Build Devices skill. Can't remember if the balm injectors were tradeable or not, but the empty injectors were not tradeable. They were instead taken to the Councillor on Prasad Station in the hangar, where you could get particular items for enough empty injectors. The recipe for the Tolerance as well as the Intolerance could be earned doing this mission, some non-manu PLs, the recipe for the Invisible eye, the Specialized Build Computer R and S lines of devices. The JE was the best class at doing this particular mission because of the travel between Paren Station & Tarsis that was required. You had to take the mission from Ariad, (Mejan had went missing, and Ariad moved to Paren Station) fly to Mondara Maelstrom, use an injector, return to Paren, repeat. You could not take multiples of this mission at the same time.

The Balm run gave 2% of a post 150 explore level per mission.
[/quote]
Just to correct you a tad here Terrell, you could take the mission, make a injector/balm and do it 5 times until you filled up your mission log, THEN go inject the balm. The spent injector(s) was the turn in at prasad station to benwhateverhisname is on the dock for reward. You got xp and rep for ea trade in and a stackable token item to exchange multiples of for gear rewards.

I'm knowing the 5 times then go heal because many were the times I hit the "heal" icon button 5 times, but too rapidly and then WH, to find out after docking prasad that it only registered 4 times, still having 1 unspent injector

And if you thing grail water is scarce now....try when that healing maw came in...ea injector/balm took a grail water...everyone and his cousin was doing that mission for rewards, and the normal item construction got bottle necked for scarceity of grailwater.

[Mattsacre]

oh and the balm actually finally made a use for glamour goo

[Terrell [BT]]

In live I didn't have much problem finding Grail Water, but then my primary toon was a miner, and I spent LOTS of time mining. I have some Grail Water on my current JE that I've been storing since 'roidball time. The Balm run is one of the missions that I'm REALLY looking forward to. Same with the MCP, but I hope that we have more mining projects & missions in EMU than we did in Live as I LOVE to mine.

I would just make few of them at a time, take the mission to inject the balm, do it, and come back to Paren Station, then repeat. I remember using the balm injector like any other device. IIRC if you logged out you lost any of them you had. Here are a couple of screenies from live.

[IMG]http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p73/Terrell_072/ScreenShot22-1.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p73/Terrell_072/ScreenShot21-1.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p73/Terrell_072/ScreenShot27-1.jpg[/IMG]