Tyran Posted June 26, 2011 Report Share Posted June 26, 2011 It is going to be years before the emulator goes live with the 3 extra professions and all the new sectors and content... Has a limited release been considered instead? Something like: * A level cap of for example L50 - L70 * Limited access to sectors containing content for those levels * It would still be a beta testing kind of scenario. But the testing is done on low level content. So someone can become filthy rich here but later on it would not neccesarily mean much as a L150 player has an income that is several magnitudes higher. Basically it would not mean a great deal if mistakes are made with low level content. Some upsides: * The Emulator would be live, so no more player wipes. * You would be making use of the very cool yet often skipped low level content. * Less initial content, easier to manage for the dev team. * This method would be expanded upon by slowly raising the level cap and adding content, instead of waiting several years for the full deal. Updating the game with level specific content each time seems more structured than everything at once. * Currently the sunrise server has 200 people at it's peak, they would be better to populate a limited number of sectors than the 100 or so sectors they do now. With regards to crowding, this would be a way to test a decently populated server instead of the thinly populated one now. Has something of this nature been considered? Or are there reasons other than content that it is going to take a while yet? 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blattu Posted June 29, 2011 Report Share Posted June 29, 2011 an intresting idea and a valid question yet no response Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tienbau Posted June 29, 2011 Report Share Posted June 29, 2011 I don't understand the question or what you are asking for. We already have a live server, are you saying we should write another one? ... Not following ... Due to game balancing and so on a single further wipe is inevitable. Limited release of less content? That doesn't sound very appealing. Maybe you are on to something but you need to explain what you're talking, why this would be a good idea, and the reasoning behind it, and also come up with the extra manpower it would take to implement. It's not part of any plan we have, so the additional work would need to be undertaken by some other, magical people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SludgeEntertainment Posted June 29, 2011 Report Share Posted June 29, 2011 (edited) I know what i would like to see, another server dump and post on to an SVN of the server source code with a basic database dump so i can recompile my own server, and play on my lan network with my friends. since the donates are paying for the servers and development software i think its only right they receive a emulator server software to host for there own will. But then again previously stated by Earth and beyond emulator staff, the SVN server source code wont be released until the server is in a live / finished state, to be honest i don't think its up to the emulator staff to decide since the donates pay for everything, its not your source code, its the public's to my understanding, in another response a developer said that, the public get what they want, they get to play Earth and beyond again, i can agree with that, but what does that have to do with the SVN emulator server source code, and a database dump. I think that the public deserves to have there own modifiable Earth and Beyond Emulator server / mysql database, every end of the year at least, that way people that don't want to play in a rack hosted environment, can play on there local network with the current release of the server. FYI, i understand that the server source code was stolen before by an EX Lead Game Master who's name i will not mention, but this was quite some time ago, i think it is time to put that in the past, and move on. And start doing normal SVN / Database dumps, once again i think that its only fair to the public, and those who put there time into the Earth and Beyond Emulator, as development staff. Anything is better then this [url="https://forum.enb-emulator.com/index.php?/topic/4741-a-financial-report-to-all-11656-registered-players/page__view__findpost__p__41513"]old source code[/url] that was given to me by an current Earth and Beyond Emulator developer. Edited June 29, 2011 by SludgeEnt 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spode Posted June 29, 2011 Report Share Posted June 29, 2011 Hmm interesting point of view. I for myself donate money so that they can keep the game going and develop it and maybe some day reach a finished state. I can see what you are saying but I don't see the logic that just because one donates some money that they entitled to the whole package to use for their own free will nor have I seen anyone mention this is an open source project either. Maybe if the donations on a 3, 6 or 12 month period was high enough that could entitle a donator to this sevice? This would need to be a continous thing though, aka to recieve updates and such you would have to keep the donations above the set "limit". Maybe that could boost some income for the project also? However problem remains if ppl wants to play on their own server they are not testing the game online as this stress test is really about... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SludgeEntertainment Posted June 29, 2011 Report Share Posted June 29, 2011 [quote name='Ramses' timestamp='1309361023' post='42749'] Hmm interesting point of view. I for myself donate money so that they can keep the game going and develop it and maybe some day reach a finished state. I can see what you are saying but I don't see the logic that just because one donates some money that they entitled to the whole package to use for their own free will (I haven't seen anyone mention this is an open source thing). Maybe if the donations on a 3, 6 or 12 month period was high enough that could entitle a donator to this sevice? This would need to be a continous thing though, aka to recieve updates and such you would have to keep the donations above the set "limit". Maybe that could boost some income for the project also? However problem remains if ppl wants to play on their own server they are not testing the game online as this stress test is really about... [/quote] There used to be a SVN/Database dump once every month or so, until the non current release was stolen from one of the servers, they stopped releasing the dump because one person decided to clam the source code as there own, as far as being entitled to the code, the public is fully entitled since they pay and donate for the development software / server for the development. The only content that the public is not entitled to is the full database, because that end of the project is content development owned, and it is up to them to release the missions / sectors that were remade, all i ask is a more current dump of the SVN so people that want to run a server local can do so with a less buggy more current version of the server. As was available once before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spode Posted June 29, 2011 Report Share Posted June 29, 2011 [quote name='SludgeEnt' timestamp='1309361431' post='42750'] There used to be a SVN/Database dump once every month or so, until the non current release was stolen from one of the servers, they stopped releasing the dump because one person decided to clam the source code as there own, as far as being entitled to the code, the public is fully entitled since they pay and donate for the development software / server for the development. The only content that the public is not entitled to is the full database, because that end of the project is content development owned, and it is up to them to release the missions / sectors that were remade, all i ask is a more current dump of the SVN so people that want to run a server local can do so with a less buggy more current version of the server. As was available once before. [/quote] Can you please direct me to where it is stated that you are entitled to the code if you donate money to keep the project going? Now I might very well be wrong here and in that case I do apologize in that case, but I have not seen this written anywhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SludgeEntertainment Posted June 29, 2011 Report Share Posted June 29, 2011 (edited) [quote name='Ramses' timestamp='1309361893' post='42752'] Can you please direct me to where it is stated that you are entitled to the code if you donate money to keep the project going? Now I might very well be wrong here and in that case I do apologize in that case, but I have not seen this written anywhere. [/quote] I wish i could but that was lost with the old forums database when they had a server crash a couple years ago, anyways i am sure there are others that remember, about the SVN/Database dumps, as far as the last available database dump, its still on the website [url="http://net-7.org/database/"]http://net-7.org/database/[/url] that is the most current SQL dump available. But like i said, there are others on here that will remember about the monthly SVN/Database dump, before all that stuff happened with the source code, and ENB Classic aka the group that tried to claim Earth and Beyond Emulator as there own project. Anyways on another note, as far as your donated money, that is for the server/server development of the Earth and beyond emulator project, which in the end entitles the public the SVN/Database dump, and to the project its self. Edited June 29, 2011 by SludgeEnt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spode Posted June 29, 2011 Report Share Posted June 29, 2011 I am not arguing with the fact that it has been avaiable at some point, this I know is true also. I am questioning this: [quote]Anyways on another note, as far as your donated money, that is for the server/server development of the Earth and beyond emulator project, which in the end entitles the public the SVN/Database dump, and to the project its self.[/quote] I still fail to see why one is entitled to the code if one donates money to the project, if I understood correctly everyone was entitled to the code earlier regardless of donating money or not. I am sure that if it was intended to be this way it would have been clearly stated that donating money entitles you to the code. Further it would mean that giving 5USD to project = free access to code to be used however one sees fit and to be used to for example lan with friends at home. I do not see how that will push the project forward and help it reach a final state. I would see the logic if there was a set reason for this, for example helping gain more money to keep project running. Meaning if a player wants to play on an own server it means less time on the stress test server, meaning less testing being done, this could maybe be justified if the donations were high enough and that way help the project running (as funding has been tight lately). Would be fun to have the opportunity to do this though, play when online server is down or when ISP is not working Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outfctrl Posted June 29, 2011 Report Share Posted June 29, 2011 All this stuff is way over my head. I am just a gamer, that's it. I donate money to keep this game running and hopefully, one day, it will be complete and then their focus will be on new content. True, we are at the mercy of the servers, but that is in any game, with the exception of wipes, which I have not experienced yet. I just like playing EnB and am willing to pay to keep it going. I get my moneys worth with the enjoyment I get with a great community and game play. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wmtyrance Posted June 29, 2011 Report Share Posted June 29, 2011 [quote name='Ripster' timestamp='1309374735' post='42759'] All this stuff is way over my head. I am just a gamer, that's it. I donate money to keep this game running and hopefully, one day, it will be complete and then their focus will be on new content. True, we are at the mercy of the servers, but that is in any game, with the exception of wipes, which I have not experienced yet. I just like playing EnB and am willing to pay to keep it going. I get my moneys worth with the enjoyment I get with a great community and game play. [/quote] this all the way. I'm just happy to be playing again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tienbau Posted June 30, 2011 Report Share Posted June 30, 2011 hey - we've gone a bit off topic. Tyran was saying something about a limited release, I'm not completely sure what he was talking about. There was talk a long time ago of just having the Sol sector opened at the start of the game and progressing from there, we explore the new sectors as they are 'discovered', although they were all opened by default in the ensuing chaos of releases, meaning the teams can focus on getting the Sol sector looking awesome. It was quite a good idea but really the other sectors would probably have been a little neglected I guess. Yes we could release the source code or at least a server build (which I think you get by default in the patch) but without the database it doesn't do anything. Unfortunately if we release the database you can bet it would be busted open in a 'lookie lookie what I found!111!!11 mwahaha!!11!' data mining site within a day or two at most, spoiling the game for everyone. We do intend on releasing a smaller cut down DB for people to run on lans or whatever but it's just finding the time to release a cut-down DB. We are getting there though, thanks to the evolving Net-7 database system where devs have a choice to blank their content to the Net-7 interface, so it would be possible to automatically generate a database of all the non-sensitive stuff for releases. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SludgeEntertainment Posted June 30, 2011 Report Share Posted June 30, 2011 (edited) [quote name='Tienbau' timestamp='1309407236' post='42781'] hey - we've gone a bit off topic. Tyran was saying something about a limited release, I'm not completely sure what he was talking about. There was talk a long time ago of just having the Sol sector opened at the start of the game and progressing from there, we explore the new sectors as they are 'discovered', although they were all opened by default in the ensuing chaos of releases, meaning the teams can focus on getting the Sol sector looking awesome. It was quite a good idea but really the other sectors would probably have been a little neglected I guess. Yes we could release the source code or at least a server build (which I think you get by default in the patch) but without the database it doesn't do anything. Unfortunately if we release the database you can bet it would be busted open in a 'lookie lookie what I found!111!!11 mwahaha!!11!' data mining site within a day or two at most, spoiling the game for everyone. We do intend on releasing a smaller cut down DB for people to run on lans or whatever but it's just finding the time to release a cut-down DB. We are getting there though, thanks to the evolving Net-7 database system where devs have a choice to blank their content to the Net-7 interface, so it would be possible to automatically generate a database of all the non-sensitive stuff for releases. [/quote] Excellent this is the type of stuff i am looking foreword to see, and i am sure the rest of the public would like a cut down version of a lan server, as far as the cutting you guys could sometime time maybe in the long future, make mission, mobs, character generators, for adding future content into the public server / cut data dump, i was never intending they release the full database to the public, when i made these posts. I agree it would spoil all the fun in the game, but what i had in the back of my head was a public svn dump, with a cut db, that people in the future could build into, hence forever continuing earth and beyond. I beleave that this project was started to bring earth and beyond back into its original state, or as close as it can get with the all data that was able to be acquired by the development staff. And the entire staff had every intention to add on some new things of there own to the pot, Not changing the game play, but to better it.. i have seen alot of emulators and still by far this one is the best, and always will be because it still brought back Earth and beyond... even though its not finished, the emulator is very playable, just like the original game... I also beleave that the earth and beyond staff deserves a big community thanks from the public for bringing back one of the best space mmorpgs of its time. Thank you. Edited June 30, 2011 by SludgeEnt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spode Posted June 30, 2011 Report Share Posted June 30, 2011 Sweet, that needs to be tested when it is done Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SludgeEntertainment Posted June 30, 2011 Report Share Posted June 30, 2011 Oh btw, sorry Tienbau, did not mean to derail the topic... *SludgeEnt* bows to the almighty programming god Tienbau. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tienbau Posted June 30, 2011 Report Share Posted June 30, 2011 I think this is what Tyran was talking about ... Although any DB we release would be cut down, you would of course be free to log in via an admin account and use the many in-game editing tools available to devs to change/add stuff. And there is a facility to control any object in space directly which is fun too. With a little human help (like a table-top style GM or two) you could set up some pretty spunky raids with some human assisted AI Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyran Posted July 2, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 2, 2011 [quote name='Tienbau' timestamp='1309349891' post='42744'] I don't understand the question or what you are asking for. We already have a live server, are you saying we should write another one? ... Not following ... Due to game balancing and so on a single further wipe is inevitable. Limited release of less content? That doesn't sound very appealing. Maybe you are on to something but you need to explain what you're talking, why this would be a good idea, and the reasoning behind it, and also come up with the extra manpower it would take to implement. It's not part of any plan we have, so the additional work would need to be undertaken by some other, magical people. [/quote] Sry if I wasn't clear enough. My suggestion has nothing to do with a database dump, or making the lives of devs harder. Releasing a server with limited content but no more player wipes would mean the enb emulator is live for all intents and purposes. Call me selfish for partly suggesting this for personal reasons but I don't play on the current server anymore because of the inevitable playerwipes. It makes investing time into leveling seem wasted. Since on the current path of development it will take a few more years till the emulator can be launched - that means the final playerwipe would erase several years of progress. With the above in mind you can realize that only once player wipes are over will I play, and with me I'm certain quite a lot of other people (think of all the people who played the emulator for a while but then stopped). I'd be more than happy to be stuck at L50 for a while and a new sector being released each month and slowly leveling up as higher level content becomes available. Also, I love the anticipation of updates, doesn't anyone else? Dev guys, would it not relieve you of pressure by slowly releasing enb bit by bit instead of everything of live at once PLUS the 3 new professions fully balanced, sectored, skilled and itemed out? The westwood devs did not even do this. Would devs not be able to focus their efforts better like this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tienbau Posted July 3, 2011 Report Share Posted July 3, 2011 Ah, it's all about player wipes. There have been people throwing the 'W' word into the game chat pretty much since we opened the server back in 2008, to watch the inevitable fallout. The rule is - if it's not posted on the forum in an official post, it's not true. There hasn't been a player wipe since, what late 2008 when we started ST3? From my perspective there is only need for one more wipe for when (if ever) the storyline starts - the server's progressed so far since the start of ST3 it's been quite amazing. Back then there was no proper system for loot drops, no jobs, the mob richness was limited, the resource fields were very basic with not much drop variance and much much more. With that out the way it would just be continual improvements, much as it has been all along. We really need to know what everyone wants - if we all (I mean the whole player base) think there's no need for another wipe ever I guess we can avoid it, it's just there are chars that regularly get stuck with missions because it's inevitable that since 2008 the core missions will have changed. This is unavoidable really, hundreds of hours of work has gone into them since the last wipe and changes have been required. Maybe alternatives could be suggested like a mission wipe perhaps? This has been another milestone for alpha - to formalise the important core progression missions, something which is almost complete now. It would be an ideal chance to get the wipe out of the way for ever, and we can all level up together! There is going to be a lot of new stuff coming in Alpha, some of which would be kinda ruined if it were introduced to a mature server with a lot of level 150's running around. I always hoped we'd be able to follow the original storyline idea where the systems are opened up as they are discovered but I'm not sure if this would ever happen now. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blattu Posted July 3, 2011 Report Share Posted July 3, 2011 to TB if a wipe is needed then so be it idk about some players but i think most of the loyal players of the emu will face the fact not that i like it any more than others but if its needed to do a clean start with all things working then we will accept it and rebuild as most of us players will agree the simple fact of playing the best mmo out there is why we're here if everything it happy and working properly than we all are ready to start anew are we to that point? if so then lets get it done and refresh the best game if not then we will work out the issues and be ready for the GAME as it is meant to be sorry for the ramble Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raizer Mackham Posted July 3, 2011 Report Share Posted July 3, 2011 (edited) Not sure why you worry about a wipe. This game has always been easy to level up. One of the most friendly non grind for XP MMORPG. It only took me 3 months to max out my JD after 7 years away. I remember EQ took 8 months of grinding hardcore to max out my warrior. The fun is in the process of learning your class and how to maximize experience. That is why we all play. Edited July 3, 2011 by Raizer Mackham Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrixunMortar Posted July 3, 2011 Report Share Posted July 3, 2011 if a server wipe is inevitable anyway then i say wipe it sooner rather than later! tnere's no point in putting it off and losing more time n effort than is necesssary! will some of the removed builds be put back? like brimstone ballista ammo etc? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mimir[IS] Posted July 3, 2011 Report Share Posted July 3, 2011 (edited) [quote name='BrixunMortar' timestamp='1309695758' post='42890'] if a server wipe is inevitable anyway then i say wipe it sooner rather than later! tnere's no point in putting it off and losing more time n effort than is necesssary! will some of the removed builds be put back? like brimstone ballista ammo etc? [/quote] I think what TB and others have said... "There will not be a wipe until we need to" So wiping now would really not put off another wipe later when the time came that it was needed. Edited July 3, 2011 by Mimir Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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