add path warping / traveling

[lpalgarvio[IS]]

this idea is complex.

- select from the galaxy map, a destination system/sector.

- select multiple navs for warping. a warp path (involving or not stopping and restarting warp)

requires having the navs and gates explored to complete path. else, no go.

whats the use?

go eat, to to toilet, go outside, etc, while our character travels for 30mins

show your thoughts

[lpalgarvio[IS]]

think shift + click or control + click for warp path in navs, then hit warp.

red lines could appear in the map for the warp path.

again, requires having the navs and gates explored to complete path. else, no go. or it would be too easy

for galaxy map travel, hit a destination sector and hit warp.

Edited March 1, 2011 by LPCA

[Galileo]

my thoughts are, it doesnt take 30 minutes to warp anywhere ingame. Also, all of my enjoyment is gameplay interaction. I think your suggestion is a fine one except, back in "live" , people were making macro's to already do this sort of thing. In my opinion, macro's have no business in EnBEMU.

[garblesoup]

my thoughts are, it doesnt take 30 minutes to warp anywhere ingame. Also, all of my enjoyment is gameplay interaction. I think your suggestion is a fine one except, back in "live" , people were making macro's to already do this sort of thing. In my opinion, macro's have no business in EnBEMU.

+1

[lpalgarvio[IS]]

IMO, it's not really about macros. just travel.

- if i have an explore tour, i could make a warp path and let it do the rest, while i chat or do something else ingame, in the same account or another account. for example, i came to the conclusion it's hard to do more than 1 explore tour at same time, even if all doing the same path at same time. too many variables and you can't pay enough attention to every detail, like mobs, scan, buffs or people talking to you (yes people distract you a lot). not as much beneficial to just 1 explore tour, but still beneficial.

- if im traveling from aragoth to beta hydri, to get new gear, its much less of hassles to issue a travel path than to be there gating every time. probably eve does that, just from top of the mind (i didnt played eve).

- if im traveling inside sectors, and i need to make shorcuts, warp paths would help. think ABA for example. theres a nav that is a shorcut to get into ABG, rather than going all the way around, passing by earth gate. how to do it? click the nav. then click ctrl/shift and the ABG gate. there, a warp path through 1 nav and 1 gate.

- trade runs & jobs.

- long distance traveling in general, provided you explored the navs and gates.

- bored? make your ship travel randomly.

the point is that it's not meant for macros. just a cool thing for those that travel a lot.

a skilled programmer can already do that without needing this to be ingame anyway.

i did write combat macros & chavez macros back in live, including multi-account usage, so i remember more or less how the application worked (not mentioning the name for the thread sake), and i don't think it's hard to do it without this functionality. if i were to make one, it wouldn't stop me by not having this implemented.

while long distance traveling would be harder to do (interaction with galaxy map), nav warp path would be a little easier i think.

and btw, Navigate skill mission does mention shorcut travelling...

Edited March 1, 2011 by LPCA

[lpalgarvio[IS]]

this is what i mean with my example of ABA above.

[Tienbau]

we get the path from the client. Unless we added specific overrides in the server, which tried to calculate a better path (which is possible) it wouldn't change. I think we can influence the warp paths with some of the nav settings. I'll have a play around.

[wootage]

we get the path from the client. Unless we added specific overrides in the server, which tried to calculate a better path (which is possible) it wouldn't change. I think we can influence the warp paths with some of the nav settings. I'll have a play around.

Just wanted to mention, there are some less-than-optimal nav paths in game. I don't have a list but it's fairly common, so I assumed you guys were aware and would be tuning them up at some point. My favorites are the ones where starting from one nav takes you a longer way than returning to that same nav from the destination.

If examples would be good, I'll break out a notepad and record the ones I come across.

[Terrell [BT]]

Just wanted to mention, there are some less-than-optimal nav paths in game. I don't have a list but it's fairly common, so I assumed you guys were aware and would be tuning them up at some point. My favorites are the ones where starting from one nav takes you a longer way than returning to that same nav from the destination.

If examples would be good, I'll break out a notepad and record the ones I come across.

Agreed there, Aragoth Prime is a sector notorious for this. Try warping between the gates to Muspelheim and Varen's Girdle. Doesn't make sense that you have to do essentially a flyby of Chernevog Station to do that, when it would be quicker to simply go north relative to the planet in the middle of the sector. Makes more sense to simply freewarp.

The path between VT & Muspelheim, doesn't make sense either. When going from Muspelheim why do you make a 90 degree turn north to go around Chernevog Station, when there are perfectly good nav poins that go south of the station, allowing you to pass the station without hitting it, and would be a shorter route?

[Tienbau]

The paths are calculated by the client itself, based on information from the way the navs are set up internally. I suspect we still need to tweak those internal nav valuesa little in the areas you mention.

[Seeker]

Previous Discussion on this:

Already been voted on.

[lpalgarvio[IS]]

nice thread there. didn't knew it existed.

[wootage]

The paths are calculated by the client itself, based on information from the way the navs are set up internally. I suspect we still need to tweak those internal nav valuesa little in the areas you mention.

So, set up a post or something to gather the info? I don't mind jotting down the ones I see as I fly around and punching them into a post.

[lpalgarvio[IS]]

this wouldnt be a bad place to post them.

ABA -> roid nav in the lower right corner.

[Tienbau]

Noting where the warp paths go all around the traps is a good idea. Remember to check there's not a gravity well or something nasty if there apparently is a better route.

[Terrell [BT]]

Noting where the warp paths go all around the traps is a good idea. Remember to check there's not a gravity well or something nasty if there apparently is a better route.

As far as I know there isn't a gravity well immediately south of Chernevog Station, or in the space between the gates to Muspelheim, and Varen's Girdle in Aragoth Prime. Have freewarped south of Chernevog, as well as between the Muspelheim, Varen's Girdle gates, without warp being interrupted due to a gravity well.

I've always wondered why when warping from Muspel gate to VT gate, why do we have to turn and pass Chernevog on the North side, when we could simply stay to the south of it, not hit the station or Mughwa, and simply go on to the next nav. To me that doesn't make sense, even if you want to go from AP7 to AP8, you have to go around the station, instead of straight there. Have freewarped the distance, and there's nothing in the way.

Does this nav path make sense at all, when you can freewarp between these 2 navs without being interrupted or hitting anything?

Makes this one not make sense in the same area, given the lack of a gravity well between AP7 and AP8.

What's wrong with the resource navs and the other navs in the top part of this sector to go to VG or back?

[garblesoup]

This is a repeat discussion but I can't recall if it's been on this version of the fora or the one that was nuked. In any case I agree that some/many of the Nav paths are sub-optimal but, as expressed in a previous thread, think calculating more optimal Nav paths should be one of the benefits of the Navigation skill.

Consider a very basic example that is frequently traveled by many players - the path from the Carpenter (Beta Hydri) gate to Somerled Station in New Edinburgh (Tau Ceti). For no good reason the default path has the player hit at least 2 more Navs than are needed. It's in no way a big deal in the grand scheme of things but it's odd.

I would suggest that a benefit of Navigation would be to calculate a more optimal Nav path that would as direct as possible.

As it is now if the character is high enough level to have a reactor of sufficient cap it's much quicker to point and click at Somerled and free-warp.

[lpalgarvio[IS]]

i agree with jarod. thought of that the other day but then i didn't post it exactly like this because i thought some players would "feel left out" for not having navigate and this bonus... aka, another controversy. kudos for the courage and for reminding

i also still think that we still need a manual warp path override (shit/control click on the navs, like explained int he first posts) - it would be useful for the others that don't have navigate or for anyone doing tours or exploring.

Edited March 4, 2011 by LPCA

[C Del[IS]]

i agree with jarod. thought of that the other day but then i didn't post it exactly like this because i thought some players would "feel left out" for not having navigate and this bonus... aka, another controversy. kudos for the courage and for reminding

i also still think that we still need a manual warp path override (shit/control click on the navs, like explained int he first posts) - it would be useful for the others that don't have navigate or for anyone doing tours or exploring.

It's definitely one of the more stupid parts of the client's original design, but unfortunately it's completely impossible for us to change now. Also, it's worth noting that the EnB client is actually a beta client itself; Westwood never got time to finish it before (I assume) EA pushed it out the door.

[garblesoup]

It's definitely one of the more stupid parts of the client's original design, but unfortunately it's completely impossible for us to change now. Also, it's worth noting that the EnB client is actually a beta client itself; Westwood never got time to finish it before (I assume) EA pushed it out the door.

Fair enough, thanks for the info. It's hardly a game breaker, merely an annoyance. Once a player is high enough level it's easy enough to free warp to the desired path if speed is of the utmost importance. Me, I frequently use the extra time as a reason to get up for a bio-break, fix a drink, or even . . . have a quick chat with the wife.

[Tienbau]

at the risk of contradicting CDel , there are small changes we can make to the warp path the client picks. I think the client calculates paths based on two factors, the signature of the nav and it's navigation type. There are 2 navigation types as far as warp paths are concerned:

Warp path nav [1]: This type is to be considered as a waypoint for warp paths.

Destination nav [2]: This tells the client to ignore the nav when calculating a warp path, unless the player is warping to that actual nav. Most stations and gates will be type 2 for example.

The signature of the nav is also used to determine the path, the greater the sig, the more likely it is to be used on a path.

It is possible to have a type 1 nav that doesn't appear on the radar map, but I don't think it would influence the path chosen.

Now for the clever bit - with a high navigation skill, we could allow intermediate navs to be visible, or existing navs could have their signature increased, to cause different paths to be formed.

I will add some in-game tools for devs to have a play around with placing beacons and the like to create different paths - there are existing commands for changing certain aspects of the navs, but I'll have a go at tweaking the nav's stats on the routes you describe to see if we can get better results.

Maybe a new device, like a navigation computer could have a similar effect to the 'Navigate' skill but without the improvements to warp powerup?

[Terrell [BT]]

Love those ideas Tienbau, that's be pretty cool, my JW and JT are loving that idea about a navigation computer, to take better warp paths. (so are my other non-navigate having toons, but those two are loudest)

[lpalgarvio[IS]]

really nice ideas, i agree with all of them tien.

this would make the explorer class even more useful, and even more important for the groups' drive role.

+100 for those ideas

the roid nav in ABA for example, could be a type 1 hidden nav, with higher sig, which would then make the warp path go south and bellow, without going all the way up, when doing Saturn<->ABB.

suggestions:

* the device (or device line lvl5 and up for example) could be explorer + trader only

* the navigation skill would add this bonus at lvl3 or 5 skill, not at maxed skill lvl7, nor at minimum lvl 1. check the skill descriptions and westwood documentation for what could be the best bet

Edited March 5, 2011 by LPCA

[garblesoup]

Maybe a new device, like a navigation computer could have a similar effect to the 'Navigate' skill but without the improvements to warp powerup?

That would be very cool.

Oh, and for an example where the nav path calculation is seriously borked . . .

In Carpenter go to Nav Carp 2. Target Nav Carp 1. The calculated path will usually be to go past Nav 1 to the gate to Glenn and then back to Nav 1. One extra Nav is hardly a game breaker but it just looks really silly.

[Hexersup[IS]]

That would be very cool.

Oh, and for an example where the nav path calculation is seriously borked . . .

In Carpenter go to Nav Carp 2. Target Nav Carp 1. The calculated path will usually be to go past Nav 1 to the gate to Glenn and then back to Nav 1. One extra Nav is hardly a game breaker but it just looks really silly.

If im correct that would mean, that the gate to glenn isn't correct set.

I did not see that behavior otherwise i would have changed it.

If the path takes the gate between nav 1 (type 1) and nav 2 (type 1) then the only reason would be, the gate isn't type 2 as it should be normally. And the Gate has a higher signature than the nav 1 so the gate will be set as nearest nav to the destination.

Only type 1 navs are calculated into the path, between start and destination.

greets

Hexergirl