Donation is missing $300,- ??

[Marco[IS]]

And it’s not like they haven’t been transparent in the past as they have mentioned what servers (the past one) they were renting etc.., but I mean what is the point making an itemized report every month for ~$750 which yes is about minimum for operating costs at this point if I know what I’m talking about… and I do heh.

You are correct. The two servers (2 x Opteron 2352, 16 GB RAM per server) that we are renting cost $750 per month from the package we purchased at the time, as we have posted about before. Now what happens with the extra money? It is used on software for the rented servers, to further improve our code and stability of the actual program. After all we can't go out an bittorent everything now, c:lol: we?

To give an example:

- Renting a Licence for Dev Express for the project, can cost anywhere from $800 (limited specialized package) to $1,999 (full package). Do you think I'm making these numbers up? Check this out -> "Look at those figures!"

So, with the extra money left over at the end of the month, we bank it to purchase tools like these. There are other interesting software packages (which cost even more buckaroos) that help debug the code to find memory leaks and other little annoyances that can crash the server while it is running.

So on a closing note:

- While we don't personally benefit from the extra money per month, you (the players) benefit from the extra money. Yup no ice cream and pie for us, unless we buy it out of our own wal:)ts.

- Marco

PS: I noticed some of the replys in here have already been answered, by Asmir. Do people just "skip" his posts?

I can assure you the left over donations are not being misused. The forum app that allows the tracking of donations works as it does, a factor which we have no control over. At the end of the month, it resets to $0.00 and starts recording from there. Is it an accurate indication of how much is building up or available? No it isn't. The app also does not track what it was spent on. Is transparency and documentation of expenditures a concern for us? Of course it is and it is being addressed as we speak already. Exactly how I cannot address because I do not have that information.

As in every business, profit or non-profit, there are fixed and unforeseen expenses. To my understanding, and if I am wrong you can be sure a more informed team member will likely correct me, the goal represents what we know our fixed expenses to be. The balance left over is used to fund the unforeseen expenses like software purchases and other tools required to develop the game. Beyond that, your donations are NOT distributed as compensation to anyone on the team or in any other manner that would be considered inappropriate to my knowledge. I realize you were not trying to say you believed that to be the case, I just like to make it clear to everyone.

As for the list of donors and how much, I will look into seeing what can be done if anything. I can't make any promises as to what will or will not be done.

Thanks for your patience and for continuing to play the Earth and Beyond Emulator

[Daywolf]

to $1,999 (full package). Do you think I'm making these numbers up?

hehe that's not too bad, that's about the cost just for my modeling, animation and graphics editing apps... which are fairly bargain level. If you were running a commercial standard studio, application costs/licensing would be astronomical. Anything for development is just so expensive.

[Marco[IS]]

Anything for development is just so expensive.

Agreed!

- Marco

[Marco[IS]]

Just a general breakdown, i.e. 50% hosting, 30% hardware, 20% security, etc.

The hard part is that there really is no break down. Since everything is hosted on the Servers themselves, we limited our "overhead" fees.

The donation tracker basically displays the cost for the Two Servers. The two actual servers are rented at a total of $750.

If people did not donate, eventually we (The Dev team) would run out of money and close down the public server and go back into a "closed" status. Through you guys, the community, donating to reach that $750 mark each month, this allows us to keep the "play" server up and running so you guys can play.

If we have extra left over, we "bank it" to keep the play server running once no one donates. Or in the case recently, we used some left over money from the past to purchase the new server and still pay to keep the old one running while we set it up. Otherwise, you guys would have had a two month "break" with no EnB (although the Dev server HDD failure was an unforeseen event ). On the rare occasion, we might buy a license or software package.

I hope this clarifies what your asking. It is hard to explain since most people don't understand how a dedicated server works (money wise).

- Marco

[seekeronos]

I've been wondering - has there been any discussion of a limited incentive program for donations, such as receiving in-game credits (up to a cap set up in a manner not to be exceeded in any one-month period, so as to avoid over-inflation of the game economy) ?

I realize that this suggestion could be coloured with the negative aspects of the RMT that plague many MMOs, but this may not necessarily be a true RMT (real money trade) in that no real cash could ever come out of the system.

How about a limited system, operating in token amounts of in-game credits, for example:

- "Buying", or donating, $1 USD = 1,000 credits in game up to a maximum of $250 (250,000cr) per month (mind you, this is about the bazaar cost of a single level 6 weapon) or a few hours of Prasad/Somerled trade runs (mileage may vary depending upon ship equipment)

- Donations above $250/month would be capped at 250,000cr to avoid hyperinflating the server economy

- Donation rewards can only be given to one avatar, regardless of the number of Net-7 accounts or individual toons a user has (donator would have to register his toon name)

Alternatively, a user-specific (non-tradable) elite item could be offered to the highest donor/donors who donate over a certain amount each month, if inflating the server market economy is a concern.

[garblesoup]

I've been wondering - has there been any discussion of a limited incentive program for donations, such as receiving in-game credits (up to a cap set up in a manner not to be exceeded in any one-month period, so as to avoid over-inflation of the game economy) ?

I realize that this suggestion could be coloured with the negative aspects of the RMT that plague many MMOs, but this may not necessarily be a true RMT (real money trade) in that no real cash could ever come out of the system.

How about a limited system, operating in token amounts of in-game credits, for example:

- "Buying", or donating, $1 USD = 1,000 credits in game up to a maximum of $250 (250,000cr) per month (mind you, this is about the bazaar cost of a single level 6 weapon) or a few hours of Prasad/Somerled trade runs (mileage may vary depending upon ship equipment)

- Donations above $250/month would be capped at 250,000cr to avoid hyperinflating the server economy

- Donation rewards can only be given to one avatar, regardless of the number of Net-7 accounts or individual toons a user has (donator would have to register his toon name)

Alternatively, a user-specific (non-tradable) elite item could be offered to the highest donor/donors who donate over a certain amount each month, if inflating the server market economy is a concern.

I am certain you made this suggestion with only good intent but I have to say I would be strongly opposed to any relationship between donation status and gameplay. Really, really, really, strongly!

[Mimir[IS]]

I have to weigh in on this discussion.

I know that the new hardware we are playing on or will be playing on had some of the donations diverted to that purchase. (Was announced before the great server crash)

Frankly I don’t think it is any of our business where the money goes as long as the stated expenses are met.

I have often said that the Devs SHOULD pay themselves with the extra each month. It would not be a lot, but anything helps imho.

Being a donating player gets you nothing tangible but the feeling that you have helped. The creative types program, do missions, web content etc., so the rest of us can play.

If you want to donate, donate, if not don’t, but you can still play. Pretty cool system if you ask me.

[seekeronos]

I am certain you made this suggestion with only good intent but I have to say I would be strongly opposed to any relationship between donation status and gameplay. Really, really, really, strongly!

Indeed - that is why I suggested a token amount of $1 USD = 1,000cr ... capped at 250,000cr for anything over a $250 donation in a month's time.

1,000cr is a pretty token amount - worth about one of those "Boo Ghost Bursts" that drop off of lowbie mobs in the newb sectors (those halloween lollipop drops), or a stack of lv. 2 ML ammo.

250,000cr (in the span of one month) is about the cost of a vendor-sourced lv. 6 weapon, or a lv. 6-ish reactor.

Going off of the donation record, most people who donated seem to be in the $15-$50 range per month, which be in the ballpark of a vendor-sourced Lv. 3 or Lv. 4 item.

But I can also see where ethics issues might come into play. Just saying that if we needed to ever encourage donations, that might be one way of doing it.

[StarSeekerVDS]

Leaving aside the fact that idea may very well inspire EA to come crucify all the lot of us on crosses made of The Sims 2 pallets...

[Daywolf]

I have often said that the Devs SHOULD pay themselves with the extra each month. It would not be a lot, but anything helps imho.

Pay with what? $300 might get you a competent programmer for one day. If you divide it among all the volunteers, that's prolly less than $15 ea. for the whole month. I think most on this project, as with most hobby projects, would rather see that money go to keeping the project alive, saving it for rainy days/months. Then you get into the whole legal mumbo jumbo once people start to make money from an EMU project. Donations are great, should be no prob here, but once you start attaching in-game rewards/items, gets into gray areas. I know, 9 times out of 10 not even an eyebrow is raised, but then EA is not so nice to it's own customers, and slave driver to it's devs, so I wouldn't trust EA all so much if things went a bit far.

[garblesoup]

Leaving aside the fact that idea may very well inspire EA to come crucify all the lot of us on crosses made of The Sims 2 pallets...

. . . and THAT is the other 800 lb gorilla we don't want to wake up!

[Mimir[IS]]

Pay with what? $300 might get you a competent programmer for one day. If you divide it among all the volunteers, that's prolly less than $15 ea. for the whole month. I think most on this project, as with most hobby projects, would rather see that money go to keeping the project alive, saving it for rainy days/months. Then you get into the whole legal mumbo jumbo once people start to make money from an EMU project. Donations are great, should be no prob here, but once you start attaching in-game rewards/items, gets into gray areas. I know, 9 times out of 10 not even an eyebrow is raised, but then EA is not so nice to it's own customers, and slave driver to it's devs, so I wouldn't trust EA all so much if things went a bit far.

Ummm I think I said it would not be alot. LOL. But 15.00 US is 3 packs of Marlboro, A few meals at Micky D's, a few pints.

[AZwoodman]

Lock this thread. Those of us that want to donate will, those that dont...then don't. I waited 5 long years to play this game again and if they need help then I will give them help in the only way I can..by donating.

keep up the out standing work and by a pizza on me.

[Yanshi]

I agree that the leftover money from each month should be saved for rainy days and unexpected expenses. However I do feel that the devs are not getting any and that seems a little unfair. they make the game what is today after the dreadful sunset.

I do hope that once the game reaches a live state (past betas and stress tests), then the game should be paid for by a monthly subscription plan by people that want to pay. Not just a donation, but something where that money would go to the devs.

I do not mean a paid subscription only. there are a lot of teenagers playing this game and they do not have the means to pay. let them play the game for free. this is to be setup for someone that wishes to "donate" for that.

BTW. I did like on the old forum where we had the ability to setup a monthly automatic donation. I do not see that on this new forum.

I would like to see it implemented. I do want to donate monthly but sometimes i forget so some months may go by until i realise... Please setup the automatic donor so I can setup a recurring monthly donation.

Thank you.

[garblesoup]

Lock this thread. Those of us that want to donate will, those that dont...then don't. I waited 5 long years to play this game again and if they need help then I will give them help in the only way I can..by donating.

keep up the out standing work and by a pizza on me.

I was hoping it would have been locked a while ago. The OP was just wondering about the data being displayed on the app and made it quite clear there was no thought at all about anything inappropriate. Everything since then has diluted the s/n.

[Marco[IS]]

-=Locked by user request=-